Support NeoGAF

[tintin1029]

Her third-tier Persona's signature move, Shield of Justice, is beyond broken. They also gave her some more nice spells through the bike dates, leaving her high SP consumption as her only real downside. Slap a Chakra Ring on her, and you should be A-OK.

Naoto is pretty much the best random encounter character in the game in golden. Between Mahamaon + hama boost + 4 dyne skills, she can pretty much wipe out a mob when it's her turn. She's not as good in boss battles due to her comparatively lower damage output, but still uses use because of Shield of Justice (it's only useful against the secret / final boss though...)

Thanks guys, you were all super helpful, even though it's a game I don't even own cause I don't want to buy a Vita.

Edit: You too Caladrious

 

[PK Gaming]

Eh

I don't think she's that any at providing support outside of Shield of Justice. She gets no buff skills (err to be more specific, GOOD buff moves) or healing moves, so she's pretty much relegated to pure offense.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Eh

I don't think she's that any at providing support outside of Shield of Justice. She gets no buff skills (err to be more specific, GOOD buff moves) or healing moves, so she's pretty much relegated to pure offense.

She gets Heat Riser.

That's pretty good.

 

[PK Gaming]

She gets Heat Riser.

That's pretty good.

Never been too fond of it. It's impossible to use in random battles, and it's too slow to fully set up in boss battles. It's also fairly costly too (It's more efficient to use 1-2 Ma-buff users to get your stats up)

 

[kewlmyc]

Eh

I don't think she's that any at providing support outside of Shield of Justice. She gets no buff skills (err to be more specific, GOOD buff moves) or healing moves, so she's pretty much relegated to pure offense.

How is heat riser not a good buff skill. Having her buff me and Kanji made the last few dungeons in the game easier than they already were.

 

[Sophia]

Heat Riser for Naoto is okay. She has the SP to use it least. You're better off having your protagonist use Ma-skills and having her Mind Charge than casting it for boss battles tho.

 

[Red The Hunter]

Naoto is the best Jack-of-all-trades I've ever had the pleasure of having in my party. All four elements, mind charge, Heat Riser, Shield of Justice and Angelic Grace make her fit for virtually every magic-abusing role on your team.

Missing an element for your team to run smoothly? Naoto
Need a support Character that's proficient with all magic types? Naoto
Need a Magic User that gives good coverage to assist Yukiko? Naoto

There is literally no team that Naoto can't do well in because she's that damned versatile.

That and she lacks any weaknesses and is immune to Instant-kills. And is the only one besides the MC to gain Almighty attack skills. So she is one of the better, if not the best of the persona users on the Investigation Team. (Besides the MC)

 

[kewlmyc]

Heat Riser for Naoto is okay. She has the SP to use it least. You're better off having your protagonist use Ma-skills and having her Mind Charge than casting it for boss battles tho.

Having the protag as a buffer seems like a waste....

 

[Caladrius]

Never been too fond of it. It's impossible to use in random battles, and it's too slow to fully set up in boss battles. It's also fairly costly too (It's more efficient to use 1-2 Ma-buff users to get your stats up)

I like heat riser on her because I can buff my main attacker (90% of the time either Yu or Kanji) while Teddie takes care of Rakukaja on the first turn. It's expensive, but freeing up Kanji so he can spam Charge+Primal Force perpetually is nice. Chie is admittedly superior for buffing than the two of them due to Dragon Hustle,but I never use her after the second dungeon.

Chie/Yukiko/Kanji seems like it'd be the best setup for overall Damage, assuming no immunities..

 

[PK Gaming]

It's too situational.

You won't be using it in random battles at all, because Naoto is better suited to actually ending the battle once her turn comes up. It's a skill that's pretty much designed for boss battles, but there are faster and more efficient ways of setting up boosts for your entire team. Any combination between Yu, Teddie and Kanji pretty much has you set on atk/def (and Yosuke can handle evasion, should you use him). I just don't see the need to rely on Naoto to buff your teammates individually during boss battles, when there plenty other viable characters that can do so. Heat Riser can't stack buff turns either, so it's kind of disappointing for me.

Having the protag as a buffer seems like a waste....

It's not really a waste since buff length can be extended in P4, and he's usually the first person that moves.

 

[Sophia]

Having the protag as a buffer seems like a waste....

Then have Teddie and/or Yosuke do it in the first round. The real waste is having Naoto do it when you could be taking advantage of her higher-than-average magic stat.

It's not really a waste since buff length can be extended in P4, and he's usually the first person that moves.

Well, that only applies to Golden, the buff length being extended.

 

[Red The Hunter]

I like heat riser on her because I can buff my main attacker (90% of the time either Yu or Kanji) while Teddie takes care of Rakukaja on the first turn. It's expensive, but freeing up Kanji so he can spam Charge+Primal Force perpetually is nice. Chie is admittedly superior for buffing than the two of them due to Dragon Hustle,but I never use her after the second dungeon.

Chie/Yukiko/Kanji seems like it'd be the best setup for overall Damage, assuming no immunities..

While Dragon Hustle is nice, it has few downsides. Mostly in that you will spend a lot of SP to use the skill, and she has one of the lowest SP amount of the team. So it's not always a viable option to go with in terms of buffing up the team.

 

[kewlmyc]

It's too situational.

You won't be using it in random battles at all, because Naoto is better suited to actually ending the battle once her turn comes up. It's a skill that's pretty much designed for boss battles, but there are faster and more efficient ways of setting up boosts for your entire team. Any combination between Yu, Teddie and Kanji pretty much has you set on atk/def (and Yosuke can handle evasion, should you use him). I just don't see the need to rely on Naoto to buff your teammates individually during boss battles, when there plenty other viable characters that can do so. Heat Riser can't stack buff turns either, so it's kind of disappointing for me.

Different strokes for different blokes I guess. Having Kanji doing buffs during a boss battle when he could be doing constant power charge/primal force and having Yu not constantly wasting away the boss using the strongest personas at this disposal seems like a waste. I agree with the random encounters though, excluding golden hands, where I found heat riser to be useful.


I guess it just depends on your playstyle. If you had everyone attacking at least once, then yeah, Heat Riser would be useless. But if you just focused on your two heavies hitters constantly dishing damage like I did, then Heat Riser would be very useful.

 

[PK Gaming]

I like heat riser on her because I can buff my main attacker (90% of the time either Yu or Kanji) while Teddie takes care of Rakukaja on the first turn. It's expensive, but freeing up Kanji so he can spam Charge+Primal Force perpetually is nice. Chie is admittedly superior for buffing than the two of them due to Dragon Hustle,but I never use her after the second dungeon.

Chie/Yukiko/Kanji seems like it'd be the best setup for overall Damage, assuming no immunities..

Eh, you could go Matarukaja(Yu) + Marakukaja(Teddie) + Kanji (power charge) + Naoto (attack) for more damage on the first turn, and every subsequent turn too.

Dragon Hustle is nonexistent for 80% of the game sadly. That's why she's kind of a meh character, since her only method of supporting the team is via a slightly gimmick Revolution... DH definitely makes the best lategame boss killer in the game though.

Different strokes for different blokes I guess. Having Kanji doing buffs during a boss battle when he could be doing constant power charge/primal force and having Yu not constantly wasting away the boss using the strongest personas at this disposal seems like a waste. I agree with the random encounters though, excluding golden hands, where I found heat riser to be useful.

I guess it just depends on your playstyle. If you had everyone attacking at least once, then yeah, Heat Riser would be useless. But if you just focused on your two heavies hitters constantly dishing damage like I did, then Heat Riser would be very useful.

I actually rarely have Kanji using buffs during a boss battle. He's pretty much exclusively using Power Charge + Phys Attack, unless the situation calls for it. Most of the time Teddie or Yu uses Matarukaja on turn one, and then they shift into attacking until it needs to be refreshed again. I guess I see things differently because don't see it as a waste to have Yu use a buff/debuff, because the longterm benefit is increased benefit damage for your entire party (vs Heat Riser which only targets a single person). You deal so much more damage over the span of 3 turns with Matarukaja in comparison to Heat Riser.

EDIT: I forgot that Yu is pretty much spamming debilitate once he gets it.

 

[Sophia]

I'd like to point out that Heat Riser would be absolutely amazing if Persona 4 followed the standard SMT rules for buffs/debuffs.

Eh, you could go Matarukaja(Yu) + Marakukaja(Teddie) + Kanji (power charge) + Naoto (attack) for more damage on the first turn, and every subsequent turn too.

Dragon Hustle is nonexistent for 80% of the game sadly. That's why she's kind of a meh character, since her only method of supporting the team is via a slightly gimmick Revolution... DH definitely makes the best lategame boss killer in the game though.

You'd want Naoto to Mind Charge.

 

[kewlmyc]

I'd like to point out that Heat Riser would be absolutely amazing if Persona 4 followed the standard SMT rules for buffs/debuffs.

I've never heard of this SMT so explain yourself. Is there no end to how many times you can buff someone or something?

 

[PK Gaming]

I'd like to point out that Heat Riser would be absolutely amazing if Persona 4 followed the standard SMT rules for buffs/debuffs.



You'd want Naoto to Mind Charge.

Details!

I actually don't bring Naoto to boss fights because her DPT is the weakest in the game.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

Nightmare fuel.

 

[Gazoinks]

"I wonder if we'll find her"

WELL MAYBE IF YOU STOPPED SITTING AROUND READING A MAGAZINE WE COULD WORK QUICKER. Sheesh.

 

[Sophia]

I've never heard of this SMT so explain yourself. Is there no end to how many times you can buff someone or something?

Buffs and Debuffs in the mainline games (and Persona 1, actually...) stack, and stack permanently, for the duration of the fight. The only way to counter them is to use the opposite buff.

Rakukaja, Sukukaja, and Sukunda are extremely useful for this reason in early game SMT IV.

Details!

I actually don't bring Naoto to boss fights because her DPT is the weakest in the game.

I find that P4's endgame the difference is minimal enough that I just don't care. This is mostly thanks to a lousy endgame that doesn't prioritize damage per turn all that much.

 

[PK Gaming]

You can stack them up to 3 times, and they target everyone in the party. It's pretty much a necessity on hard mode.

Buffs and Debuffs in the mainline games (and Persona 1, actually...) stack, and stack permanently, for the duration of the fight. The only way to counter them is to use the opposite buff.

Rakukaja, Sukukaja, and Sukunda are extremely useful for this reason in early game SMT IV.



I find that P4's endgame the difference is minimal enough that I just don't care. This is mostly thanks to a lousy endgame that doesn't prioritize damage per turn all that much.

I just use who I like heh. There aren't that many challenging bosses, sadly... I might do a solo-Yu run on hard for fun.

 

[Gazoinks]

Buffs and Debuffs in the mainline games (and Persona 1, actually...) stack, and stack permanently, for the duration of the fight. The only way to counter them is to use the opposite buff.

Rakukaja, Sukukaja, and Sukunda are extremely useful for this reason in early game SMT IV.

Wait woah I did not know that. That is really good to know. I like that buffs aren't useless in this series like they are in most RPGs.

 

[tintin1029]

Kinda late but

 

[Red The Hunter]

Buffs and Debuffs in the mainline games (and Persona 1, actually...) stack, and stack permanently, for the duration of the fight. The only way to counter them is to use the opposite buff.

Rakukaja, Sukukaja, and Sukunda are extremely useful for this reason in early game SMT IV.

Don't forget Dekaja and Dekunda in terms of countering buffing and debuffing.

 

[Sophia]

Don't forget Dekaja and Dekunda in terms of countering buffing and debuffing.

Well yes, of course. But those skills exists in P3 and P4 too. They're also usually not worth the SP cost in Persona.

Wait woah I did not know that. That is really good to know. I like that buffs aren't useless in this series like they are in most RPGs.

Winning against the Minotaur, the first boss of SMT IV, is all about how you mange buffs on your party. He can't kill what he can't hit.

Or you could be like me and have a skill mutate into Bufula and one shot it.

 

[PK Gaming]

Kinda late but

Sorry, I just love talking about gameplay mechanics and whatnot I go all out with info dumps.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Woah, this is awesome. I really like Kaneko's art, especially these big pieces. The Nocturne one was really cool also.

Wheeeere has he been recently? ;_;

Either
A. Getting wasted in a bar with Okada

B. Working on Raidou 3

C. Designing light novel covers

D. Hugging Decarabia plushies

 

[kewlmyc]

Kinda late but

We weren't fighting though..... We were having an actual discussion about the game mechanics for once. If I came off as dickish during the discussion, I apologize, but I didn't see it as fighting.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Did I miss something?

 

[PK Gaming]

Do I have to say it?

Spoiler

I'd fuck Akihiko

 

[Sophia]

Did I miss something?

Nope, just tintin using a meme incorrectly. Nothing to see.

 

[Caladrius]

Eh, you could go Matarukaja(Yu) + Marakukaja(Teddie) + Kanji (power charge) + Naoto (attack) for more damage on the first turn, and every subsequent turn too.

Dragon Hustle is nonexistent for 80% of the game sadly. That's why she's kind of a meh character, since her only method of supporting the team is via a slightly gimmick Revolution... DH definitely makes the best lategame boss killer in the game though.

I'd like to point out that Heat Riser would be absolutely amazing if Persona 4 followed the standard SMT rules for buffs/debuffs.

You'd want Naoto to Mind Charge.

They should go to SMT buffing for 5.

I think the question of whether or not Naoto or Yu is better rests mostly on which does more base damage: Severe magic skill+Amp or Primal Force. If PF does more damage it would indeed be better to use MC for buffing. Otherwise it would be Naoto since she has the weakest overall offense of the three.

I also just remembered that Teddie has to cast Marakunda too. It'd probably be best to use Matarukaja to squeeze the most damage out, so the argument I started is completely irrelevant.

 

[Red The Hunter]

Well yes, of course. But those skills exists in P3 and P4 too. They're also usually not worth the SP cost in Persona.

Okay yeah you do have a point, I usually just use the purifying salts and water for them instead of wasting SP.

 

[Sophia]

They should go to SMT buffing for 5.

I think the question of whether or not Naoto or Yu is better rests mostly on which does more base damage: Severe magic skill+Amp or Primal Force. If PF does more damage it would indeed be better to use MC for buffing. Otherwise it would be Naoto since she has the weakest overall offense of the three.

I also just remembered that Teddie has to cast Marakunda too. It'd probably be best to use Matarukaja to squeeze the most damage out, so the argument I started is completely irrelevant.

Which buff/debuff skills to use depends on the boss and the phase of the boss too.

Also, mind wording your comparison better? It doesn't make much sense as is. Narukami should always have better damage in Golden unless you're incompetent with Persona fusing.

Okay yeah you do have a point, I usually just use the purifying salts and water for them instead of wasting SP.

I should have also said they're not usually worth the use of a turn either, at least in Persona 4. There are a few Tartarus/Desert of Door bosses where they have uses.

 

[pan-hime]

Do I have to say it?

Spoiler

I'd fuck Akihiko

obligatory.

 

[Red The Hunter]

Either
A. Getting wasted in a bar with Okada

B. Working on Raidou 3

C. Designing light novel covers

D. Hugging Decarabia plushies

I WANT THAT PLUSHIE, although I wouldn't mind a Jack one either. Man some of the SMT demons would make great plushies.

 

[Caladrius]

Which buff/debuff skills to use depends on the boss and the phase of the boss too.

Also, mind wording your comparison better? It doesn't make much sense as is. Narukami should always have better damage in Golden unless you're incompetent with Persona fusing.

It doesn't make sense because it just occurred to me that Naoto could buff both of them over the two turns for the same effect as Matarukaja would. Mah bad. I was trying to compare whether or not it would be better for Yu or Kanji to sacrifice a turn when neither of them even need to.

< __ >

 

[EMT0]

Either
A. Getting wasted in a bar with Okada

B. Working on Raidou 3

C. Designing light novel covers

D. Hugging Decarabia plushies

Why would he be working on Raidou 3?

 

[Caladrius]

Why would he be working on Raidou 3?

Even grizzled SMT veterans have dreams, you know.

 

[Soriku]

Why would he be working on Raidou 3?

Because it needs to be made.

 

[CrazyTank940]

Do I have to say it?

Spoiler

I'd fuck Akihiko

lol

 

[cj_iwakura]

Why would he be working on Raidou 3?

Why NOT?

 

[EMT0]

Even grizzled SMT veterans have dreams, you know.

Because it needs to be made.

Why NOT?

Don't get me wrong, I want to believe. But I also want to believe Persona 1 and 2 will get full-fledged 3D remakes that ditch their crap combat. Is there a reason to think it's Raidou 3 he's working on(if on anything at all) and not something like say another

Spoiler

3DS

spinoff?

 

[cj_iwakura]

Don't get me wrong, I want to believe. But I also want to believe Persona 1 and 2 will get full-fledged 3D remakes that ditch their crap combat. Is there a reason to think it's Raidou 3 he's working on(if on anything at all) and not something like say another

Spoiler

3DS

spinoff?

Because with SMT handled off to the B-team and the A-team handling Persona, Raidou's still his baby.

 

[EMT0]

Because with SMT handled off to the B-team and the A-team handling Persona, Raidou's still his baby.

...I don't follow, but I don't really follow Atlus' internal teams. Help me fix that guys. I thought that Atlus didn't have fixed teams aside from Team 1 and Persona Team, with Team 1 working on various projects and shifting personal as their priorities move around?

 

[cj_iwakura]

...I don't follow, but I don't really follow Atlus' internal teams. Help me fix that guys. I thought that Atlus didn't have fixed teams aside from Team 1 and Persona Team, with Team 1 working on various projects and shifting personal as their priorities move around?

Atlus typically have an A-team(the guys who do Catherine, P3, P4; Hashino's posse) and a B-team mostly compromised of the guys they devoured after Career Soft(Growlanser) got absorbed.

They do the Devil Survivors, Etrian Odysseys, SMT IV, ports, etc.

I'm sure they have universal programmers who bounce back and forth, but that's the jist of it as far as I know.

 

[Soriku]

Is there a reason to think it's Raidou 3 he's working on(if on anything at all) and not something like say another

Spoiler

3DS

spinoff?

Not really. But I also don't think there's any indication that Raidou is dead. The second game sold more than the first I believe so there should be room for another sequel. I'd hope if they made a Raidou 3 though it'd be on PS3/PS4 and not 3DS.

 

[EMT0]

Where does Kaneko fit in nowadays though? Like, what's he up to, if we know, aside from Decarabia plushies? He still works for Atlus, right? Then is he simply buckling up doing low key work for the A/B-teams? Any recent credits appearances?

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

3DS is where the monies at.

 

[Caladrius]

Where does Kaneko fit in nowadays though? Like, what's he up to, if we know, aside from Decarabia plushies? He still works for Atlus, right? Then is he simply buckling up doing low key work for the A/B-teams? Any recent credits appearances?

Kaneko was one of the one who supplied the basic idea for SMT IV but I don't know of anything else after 2010 (he did artwork for Strange Journey then.)