You're talking about a character that gave out her measurements openly because they were known to the public, for comedic effect. She's a celebrity caricature. The opening animation to the game is of her in a bikini. I do understand that this was alluding to the midnight channel and theme of the story. However, it's a much different atmosphere than P3's opening of Yukari having trouble with the evoker.
So let me get this straight here:
So because Rise openly made light of the fact that her measurements are available to the public, she's shameless? Poking fun at an incredibly sexist/demeaning practice is shameless? Is that the logic at work here? Because I think you're being incredibly harsh here. Like, to an unreasonable degree.
I was just talking about how her "unconquerable snow black" reputation in school wasn't used very much. The Amagi Challenge isn't referenced much at all after the first part of the game, compared to Rise, where you hear all the time about her former idol status. I would argue that Rise usurps Yukiko as the "desirable girl" of the group.
Regarding Yukiko's entire character, including her link, I won't deny it. There are wish fulfillment aspects in that as well. All characters have them actually, romantic or platonic. But it's a matter of to what degree.
I do remember what you're referring to in Yukiko's social link. You're in the supermarket and she wants to cook miso soup because she sucks at cooking. She wants to be perfect woman for you but she can't cook for shit. It's cliche but that isn't idealized at all.
Also I'm going to take this opportunity to show you something:
Rise - You're talking about a character that gave out her measurements openly because they were known to the public, for comedic effect.
Yukiko - She wants to be perfect woman for you but she can't cook for shit.
Do you not see a difference here?
Once again, Rise making light of the fact she's objectified from is not shameless. It's pretty obvious that she's joking around, because she's comfortable with her self image and is obviously poking fun. (And it's worth considering the context; she brings it up because of Teddie's hospital shenanigans). Yukiko's inability to to cook doesn't preclude her from being a textbook nadeshiko when she practically embodies it.
My intention isn't to discredit Yukiko's social link, because I don't it's that shameless, but to argue that Yukiko's slink is any less of a wish fulfillment than Rise's is frankly absurd.
Unhealthy relationship is one thing. Most genuine friendship in the entire game as you call it, is another. Given Chie & Yukiko, and Yosuke & P4MC, that's a lot to live up to.
I don't recall all the times Moronji was used offhand.We can go on about offscreen interpretations and what not, but that isn't an affectionate name. I think me comparing it to Junpei and Yukari in the last post was right on the dot. There are parallels with that and "Stupei."The only time I remember, was near the end of the game when P4MC was going to leave Inaba. Kanji says something very minor and Rise lashes out at him calling him Moronji, obviously upset at P4MC moving away.
I just don't understand how all of this is being framed as "caring and understanding." Even in your last post you say Rise comes over to Kanji's house, to his annoyance. How is that understanding?
Again, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I said it was one of the most genuine friendship's in the game, not the most. She uses it several times throughout the game (off the top of my head, she uses it during the news years eve sequence and a random food court meeting sequence). Upon retrospect, yeah it might not be an affectionate nickname, but regardless, trying to pigeonhole her playful nickname in the same category as Yosuke's disingenuous jabs is asinine. There's a very clear difference between the harmless nickname that Rise gives to Kanji and hurtful jabs that Yosuke constantly throws out. In Yosuke's case, nearly every single joke i've seen falls under the latter... he definitely crosses the line. Rise's "nickname" simply isn't on that level... It sends a completely different message. Kanji is obviously unnerved and bothered by Yosuke's jokes (even Chie has to specifically point that out to Yosuke) but it's patently obvious that there's no deeper meaning in Rise's jabs.
As for your second point, allow me to elaborate. She tries to set him up with Naoto during a study group meeting, and once again during the ski trip because she realizes he has a big crush on her. It's true that she's constantly crashing at his place (much to Kanji's chagrin), but I still think that's a symptom of her being a thoughtful friend. Aside from the investigation group, Kanji is pretty much friendless, and he's the type of person who seeks company/acceptance. And come on, Kanji is the second biggest tsundere in the game, so it's a given he'd be overly reticent to her company.
TL;DR She knows he's still a huge loner, so she's trying to help him break out of his shell (as evinced during the P4G shopping trip event). And then there's the band even that you yourself brought up.
Maybe this is all just her catty personality, which falls in line with making fun of Chie and Yukiko's cooking, or dissing the guys at New Years Eve, etc.
It honestly feels like you're conflating general cattiness with lighthearted ribbing between teenagers.
Nope, Rise's development is the only one that goes in a circle. NPC social links included.
You really want me to look this up?
God dammit Rise, of course I knew. I can't believe you wasted 8 days of my time in Inaba for this shit.Post Shadow Rise confrontation
Rise: I'm sorry...It's all my fault.
Protag: It's not your fault
Rise: No, it's still something that "I" did.
Rise: I'm sorry....You've must've been in a lot of pain up until now.
Rise: You're part of me, but I kept refusing to admit that you existed...
Rise: I was trying to find out who the real me was.
Rise: But I realize now that I was on the wrong track.
Rise: There is no "real" me. It just doesn't exist.
Paper Teddie: There is...no real...me?
Rise: You, me, even Risette...They were all born from me.
Rise: All of them are...me.
The strength required to face one's self has been made manifest blah blah
Lovers Rank 3
Rise: They just never learn!
Rise: *sigh* But I told them!
Rise: I told them today, Senpai!
Rise: "No, I'm not." "You're mistaken." "I'm not Risette!"
Rise: And it's true... I'm no longer "Risette"...
Rise: I'm just an ordinary girl...
Rise: *giggle* Which is fine with me!
Lovers Rank 9
Rise: Senpai... I thought about it.
Rise: Why my mind just went blank when I heard about Kanami...
Rise: I mean, I ran away from showbiz because I was tired of being an idol...
Rise: So I shouldn't have any problems...
Rise: And yet... I felt so angry about it... Why do you think that is...?
Protag: "'Risette' is Rise, too."
Rise: Yeah... You know all along, huh...?
Rise: Haha, but really... that's how it was.
Rise: Risette's name in lights... Idolized by the masses...
Rise: That was "me," too...
Rise: I didn't want to lose that "me"...
I (grudgingly) concede, to a certain degree. That said, I found her social link to be enjoyable, in spite of the repetitiveness. (Especially her P4G exclusive Slink)