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Persona Community Thread |OT5| Pull up a chair! [NO PQ OR P4U SPOILERS!]

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PK Gaming

Member
You're talking about a character that gave out her measurements openly because they were known to the public, for comedic effect. She's a celebrity caricature. The opening animation to the game is of her in a bikini. I do understand that this was alluding to the midnight channel and theme of the story. However, it's a much different atmosphere than P3's opening of Yukari having trouble with the evoker.

So let me get this straight here:

So because Rise openly made light of the fact that her measurements are available to the public, she's shameless? Poking fun at an incredibly sexist/demeaning practice is shameless? Is that the logic at work here? Because I think you're being incredibly harsh here. Like, to an unreasonable degree.

I was just talking about how her "unconquerable snow black" reputation in school wasn't used very much. The Amagi Challenge isn't referenced much at all after the first part of the game, compared to Rise, where you hear all the time about her former idol status. I would argue that Rise usurps Yukiko as the "desirable girl" of the group.

Regarding Yukiko's entire character, including her link, I won't deny it. There are wish fulfillment aspects in that as well. All characters have them actually, romantic or platonic. But it's a matter of to what degree.

I do remember what you're referring to in Yukiko's social link. You're in the supermarket and she wants to cook miso soup because she sucks at cooking. She wants to be perfect woman for you but she can't cook for shit. It's cliche but that isn't idealized at all.

Also I'm going to take this opportunity to show you something:

Rise - You're talking about a character that gave out her measurements openly because they were known to the public, for comedic effect.

Yukiko - She wants to be perfect woman for you but she can't cook for shit.

Do you not see a difference here?

Once again, Rise making light of the fact she's objectified from is not shameless. It's pretty obvious that she's joking around, because she's comfortable with her self image and is obviously poking fun. (And it's worth considering the context; she brings it up because of Teddie's hospital shenanigans). Yukiko's inability to to cook doesn't preclude her from being a textbook nadeshiko when she practically embodies it.

hWoPipU.jpg

My intention isn't to discredit Yukiko's social link, because I don't it's that shameless, but to argue that Yukiko's slink is any less of a wish fulfillment than Rise's is frankly absurd.

Unhealthy relationship is one thing. Most genuine friendship in the entire game as you call it, is another. Given Chie & Yukiko, and Yosuke & P4MC, that's a lot to live up to.

I don't recall all the times Moronji was used offhand.
The only time I remember, was near the end of the game when P4MC was going to leave Inaba. Kanji says something very minor and Rise lashes out at him calling him Moronji, obviously upset at P4MC moving away.
We can go on about offscreen interpretations and what not, but that isn't an affectionate name. I think me comparing it to Junpei and Yukari in the last post was right on the dot. There are parallels with that and "Stupei."

I just don't understand how all of this is being framed as "caring and understanding." Even in your last post you say Rise comes over to Kanji's house, to his annoyance. How is that understanding?

Again, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I said it was one of the most genuine friendship's in the game, not the most. She uses it several times throughout the game (off the top of my head, she uses it during the news years eve sequence and a random food court meeting sequence). Upon retrospect, yeah it might not be an affectionate nickname, but regardless, trying to pigeonhole her playful nickname in the same category as Yosuke's disingenuous jabs is asinine. There's a very clear difference between the harmless nickname that Rise gives to Kanji and hurtful jabs that Yosuke constantly throws out. In Yosuke's case, nearly every single joke i've seen falls under the latter... he definitely crosses the line. Rise's "nickname" simply isn't on that level... It sends a completely different message. Kanji is obviously unnerved and bothered by Yosuke's jokes (even Chie has to specifically point that out to Yosuke) but it's patently obvious that there's no deeper meaning in Rise's jabs.

As for your second point, allow me to elaborate. She tries to set him up with Naoto during a study group meeting, and once again during the ski trip because she realizes he has a big crush on her. It's true that she's constantly crashing at his place (much to Kanji's chagrin), but I still think that's a symptom of her being a thoughtful friend. Aside from the investigation group, Kanji is pretty much friendless, and he's the type of person who seeks company/acceptance. And come on, Kanji is the second biggest tsundere in the game, so it's a given he'd be overly reticent to her company.

TL;DR She knows he's still a huge loner, so she's trying to help him break out of his shell (as evinced during the P4G shopping trip event). And then there's the band even that you yourself brought up.

Maybe this is all just her catty personality, which falls in line with making fun of Chie and Yukiko's cooking, or dissing the guys at New Years Eve, etc.

It honestly feels like you're conflating general cattiness with lighthearted ribbing between teenagers.

Nope, Rise's development is the only one that goes in a circle. NPC social links included.
You really want me to look this up?

Post Shadow Rise confrontation
Rise: I'm sorry...It's all my fault.
Protag: It's not your fault
Rise: No, it's still something that "I" did.
Rise: I'm sorry....You've must've been in a lot of pain up until now.
Rise: You're part of me, but I kept refusing to admit that you existed...
Rise: I was trying to find out who the real me was.
Rise: But I realize now that I was on the wrong track.
Rise: There is no "real" me. It just doesn't exist.
Paper Teddie: There is...no real...me?
Rise: You, me, even Risette...They were all born from me.
Rise: All of them are...me.
The strength required to face one's self has been made manifest blah blah

Lovers Rank 3
Rise: They just never learn!
Rise: *sigh* But I told them!
Rise: I told them today, Senpai!
Rise: "No, I'm not." "You're mistaken." "I'm not Risette!"
Rise: And it's true... I'm no longer "Risette"...
Rise: I'm just an ordinary girl...
Rise: *giggle* Which is fine with me!


Lovers Rank 9
Rise: Senpai... I thought about it.
Rise: Why my mind just went blank when I heard about Kanami...
Rise: I mean, I ran away from showbiz because I was tired of being an idol...
Rise: So I shouldn't have any problems...
Rise: And yet... I felt so angry about it... Why do you think that is...?
Protag: "'Risette' is Rise, too."
Rise: Yeah... You know all along, huh...?
Rise: Haha, but really... that's how it was.
Rise: Risette's name in lights... Idolized by the masses...
Rise: That was "me," too...
Rise: I didn't want to lose that "me"...
God dammit Rise, of course I knew. I can't believe you wasted 8 days of my time in Inaba for this shit.

5%28138%29.png


I (grudgingly) concede, to a certain degree. That said, I found her social link to be enjoyable, in spite of the repetitiveness. (Especially her P4G exclusive Slink)
 
Honestly if y'all are gonna insist that Persona shouldn't have demons because it needs to be separate from SMT then they need to go all out and create unique designs for all the non-story Personas instead of recycling Kaneko's demon artwork.

Of course I've been saying this for literally years so.
 
Honestly if y'all are gonna insist that Persona shouldn't have demons because it needs to be separate from SMT then they need to go all out and create unique designs for all the non-story Personas instead of recycling Kaneko's demon artwork.

Of course I've been saying this for literally years so.

Only reason why I don't want this to happen is because that would kill any chance of anything not Persona touching a HD console.
 

Guess Who

Banned
My intention isn't to discredit Yukiko's social link, because I don't it's that shameless, but to argue that Yukiko's slink is any less of a wish fulfillment than Rise's is frankly absurd.

All the lover social links are wish fulfillment, that's the entire point, do you guys not understand how dating sims work
 
Honestly if y'all are gonna insist that Persona shouldn't have demons because it needs to be separate from SMT then they need to go all out and create unique designs for all the non-story Personas instead of recycling Kaneko's demon artwork.

Of course I've been saying this for literally years so.
I personally feel they should do this, the demons themselves have very little thematic or visual consistency with the series as it is now. They're really only there for the easy asset reuse.

Rise is better outside of her social link than in it.
I felt the opposite. Rise was completely meh outside of her S.Link, but I actually really liked her S.Link. I feel similarly towards Yosuke.
 

PK Gaming

Member
All the lover social links are wish fulfillment, that's the entire point, do you guys not understand how dating sims work

Well she says that outside of her lovers route...

That's why I brought it up :|

EDIT: And i'd like to point out that the P4 female social links aren't dating sims for the majority of their duration. With the exception of Yukiko...
 

Dantis

Member
YGCJhVK.jpg


sadly, I can't make out what mix types they are :(

Looks like the top one is Maze of Life -Special Mix-, which will presumably be a Kitajoh arrangement of it, like Sky's The Limit -Special Mix- and Beauty of Destiny -Special Mix-.

Light Up The Fire In The Night -Extend-?

Laser Beam -Sound Pack ver.-?

No idea what the last one says.
 
So let me get this straight here:

So because Rise's openly made light of the fact that her measurements are available to the public, she's shameless? Poking fun at an incredibly sexist/demeaning practice is shameless? Is that the logic at work here? Because I think you're being incredibly harsh here. Like, to an unreasonable degree.



Once again, Rise making light of the fact she's objectified from is not shameless. It's pretty obvious that she's joking around, because she's comfortable with her self image and is obviously poking fun. (And it's worth considering the context; she brings it up because of Teddie's hospital shenanigans). Yukiko's inability to to cook doesn't preclude her from being a textbook nadeshiko when she practically embodies it.



My intention isn't to discredit Yukiko's social link, because I don't it's that shameless, but to argue that Yukiko's slink is any less of a wish fulfillment than Rise's is frankly absurd.



Again, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I said it was one of the most genuine friendship's in the game, not the most. She uses it several times throughout the game (off the top of my head, she uses it during the news years eve sequence and a random food court meeting sequence). Upon retrospect, yeah it might not be an affectionate nickname, but regardless, trying to pigeonhole her playful nickname in the same category as Yosuke's disingenuous jabs is asinine. There's a very clear difference between the harmless nickname that Rise gives to Kanji and hurtful jabs that Yosuke constantly throws out. In Yosuke's case, nearly every single joke i've seen falls under the latter... he definitely crosses the line. Rise's "nickname" simply isn't on that level... It sends a completely different message. Kanji is obviously unnerved and bothered by Yosuke's jokes (even Chie has to specifically point that out to Yosuke) but it's patently obvious that there's no deeper meaning in Rise's jabs.

As for your second point, allow me to elaborate. She tries to set him up with Naoto during a study group meeting, and once again during the ski trip because she realizes he has a big crush on her. It's true that she's constantly crashing at his place (much to Kanji's chagrin), but I still think that's a symptom of her being a thoughtful friend. Aside from the investigation group, Kanji is pretty much friendless, and he's the type of person who seeks company/acceptance. And come on, Kanji is the second biggest tsundere in the game, so it's a given he'd be overly reticent to her company.

TL;DR She knows he's still a huge loner, so she's trying to help him break out of his shell (as evinced during the P4G shopping trip event). And then there's the band even that you yourself brought up.



It honestly feels like you're conflating general cattiness with lighthearted ribbing between teenagers.



5%28138%29.png


I (grudgingly) concede, to a certain degree. That said, I found her social link to be enjoyable, in spite of the repetitiveness. (Especially her P4G exclusive Slink)


Hit the nail on the head right there, there's not much I could add to that.
 
Does that happen in P4A? I've played through Yu, Yosuke, Kanji and Yukiko, but put the game on the back burner because of how similar the stories were.
Nah, it's in the manga only. Both the P4 and P4A mangas have stuff in them that doesn't necessarily happen in the games, and usually for the better. In the case of the manga, if they ever finish it, we may have a "canon" route through the story since it's told through the perspective of "Whoever you pick wins", made worse when some important things happen in some and not others.
Actually that does happens in the game, in Yosuke's story after defeating Chie.
dyq2.png
 

ssshadow

Neo Member
Looks like the top one is Maze of Life -Special Mix-, which will presumably be a Kitajoh arrangement of it, like Sky's The Limit -Special Mix- and Beauty of Destiny -Special Mix-.

Light Up The Fire In The Night -Extend-?

Laser Beam -Sound Pack ver.-?

No idea what the last one says.

I think the last one is "Otomodachi" which means "Friend", but I can't tell for sure.
 

Meia

Member
Honestly, when it comes to Rise's
shadow admission, I'm surprised it worked out like it did. Yes, she does say that the shadow is her, and yet she also says all the "other" selves she has aren't her, and that she doesn't have a "real" self because of it. Her link is coming to grips with the idea that yes, in fact they all are different aspects of herself, but they are still herself. She was trying to deny that by not wanting to be an idol anymore, but over the course of her social link you find that she does actually like the idea of being one, eventually coming to the conclusion that she wants to.


I mean, hers is not much different than Yukiko's, who wants to leave the inn only because she feels chained to it and she doesn't want to be told what to do, and then realizes over the course of her link that a lot of people she cares about are at the inn, so why would she want to leave in the first place? Kanji and Naoto both have this problem(in terms of inheriting a position), but Yukiko is the only one we see struggling with the idea of it, as the others have probably long since admitted to liking the idea anyway.


Thing don't need to radically change in someone's life in the games for the persona to change, just a change in their psyche. Yukiko realizes she doesn't want to leave and that she discovers what makes her happiest, boom new Persona. Rise realizing that the idol facet of her is something that she actually wants to do and Risette is as much a part of her as Rise is, boom new Persona. Hell, she's happy being support and helping her friends, until she's put in a situation where she'd once again be stuck waiting for someone to rescue her. It's this reason why I'm ok with Himiko changing slightly to become more of a fighter in Ultimax. Of course, it's probably kind of a cop-out and the whole persona should have changed, but whatevs.
 

Nimby

Banned
Is it bad that I want to climb through my TV and live in the world of Persona 4? I played close to 5 hours today nonstop!
 

Jonnax

Member
Actually that does happens in the game, in Yosuke's story after defeating Chie.
dyq2.png

Does anyone know why they cheaped out so much on backgrounds? It really felt like the artists had a week to do the story mode with how few of there were.

They could have used a ton of backgrounds like this one to give context to what's happening.
nm3a78J.jpg
 

Lunar15

Member

For some reason I always assumed that Yukiko could see that fight, even though there's absolutely no indication of such.

Either way, I dunno. The shadow is a twisted version of the self, not the actual self. The shadow is more a construct of how you think others see your own internal problems, not what you actually think. Chie's problem was that she liked being dominant. She liked being the stronger one. The twisted shadow turned that on its head, saying that she thought Yukiko was worthless and weak. In reality, she accepts it and realizes she just wants to be strong in order to protect the weak, not dominate them.
 
I think I would like to see the max S.Link Personas have unique Persona designs at least, like Thanatos and Kaguya and what not. Make them feel special.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
I personally feel they should do this, the demons themselves have very little thematic or visual consistency with the series as it is now. They're really only there for the easy asset reuse.

No thanks. Kaneko's designs are already the best there is. Replacements wouldn't be as good.

Also asset reuse is good. There's no way we'll get a non-Persona console game otherwise. Not that we know if Atlus has some other Megaten console games in mind, but at least there's a better chance if they have demon models from Persona.
 
No thanks. Kaneko's designs are already the best there is. Replacements wouldn't be as good.

Also asset reuse is good. There's no way we'll get a non-Persona console game otherwise. Not that we know if Atlus has some other Megaten console games in mind, but at least there's a better chance if they have demon models from Persona.

yes
 
No thanks. Kaneko's designs are already the best there is. Replacements wouldn't be as good.

Also asset reuse is good. There's no way we'll get a non-Persona console game otherwise. Not that we know if Atlus has some other Megaten console games in mind, but at least there's a better chance if they have demon models from Persona.
I will not deny that Kaneko is the GOAT monster designer, but being better designs in a vacuum doesn't necessarily mean they are the best fit for Persona. Like I said earlier, I think they're visually and thematically inconsistent with the rest of the game's Personas and I think it would be better for Persona for them to get new designs that are more consistent.

That said, I don't begrudge them for the asset reuse, I know why they do it. I was speaking more on what I think would be best for Persona 5 on its own. This isn't necessarily what would be best for MegaTen as a whole (and yeah, it really wouldn't be).
 
I'm seriously considering a second cycle playthrough, but then I'd have to go through all that combat again. Gross.

It's funny how I feel the exact same interest in doing a second cycle, but then I'd have to go through all that s-linking again. Gross.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
I will not deny that Kaneko is the GOAT monster designer, but being better designs in a vacuum doesn't necessarily mean they are the best fit for Persona. Like I said earlier, I think they're visually and thematically inconsistent with the rest of the game's Personas and I think it would be better for Persona for them to get new designs that are more consistent.

That said, I don't begrudge them for the asset reuse, I know why they do it. I was speaking more on what I think would be best for Persona 5 on its own. This isn't necessarily what would be best for MegaTen as a whole (and yeah, it really wouldn't be).

I agree (but it doesn't bother me), though really the Persona designs are inferior compared to demon designs (save some), so if anything I'd like to see them model the Personas closer to the demons rather than the opposite.

I don't think many people care that the Personas and demons look different. It would be a waste of time and money to create hundreds of new designs.
 

I am serious though, S-Links are great on your first playthrough, but on repeat playthroughs they really bog down the desire to do another playthough, they should let your slink levels carry over (optionally maybe) and you can just do the ones you missed!
 

Squire

Banned
I am serious though, S-Links are great on your first playthrough, but on repeat playthroughs they really bog down the desire to do another playthough, they should let your slink levels carry over (optionally maybe) and you can just do the ones you missed!

Nah.
 

PK Gaming

Member
You could always just youtube a P4 playthrough

As an aside, im on my 3rd run of P4 (playing it to document differences between the vanilla version and P4G) and the social links are still fresh.
 
Okay I seriously need help with a boss fight in Persona 3 FES Edition(PS2 Classic)

I'm on the Sleeping Table boss on floor 135 and it is a pain in my side to freaking kill this thing. My current party I'm trying is Junpei,Koromaru,and Akihiko. Every time I get to Half its HP, It uses its almighty magic skill and It completely destroys me. All my characters are in the mid 40's. I tried looking for guides on this thing and nothing helped.


Any Ideas guys?
 
I do find it weird (in FES at least) that S.Links are like the one thing that don't carry over. I'd prefer if S.Links transferred instead of, say, player level.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
Okay I seriously need help with a boss fight in Persona 3 FES Edition(PS2 Classic)

I'm on the Sleeping Table boss on floor 135 and it is a pain in my side to freaking kill this thing. My current party I'm trying is Junpei,Koromaru,and Akihiko. Every time I get to Half its HP, It uses its almighty magic skill and It completely destroys me. All my characters are in the mid 40's. I tried looking for guides on this thing and nothing helped.


Any Ideas guys?

Umm well I'd probably use Yukari over Koromaru since she's a good healer. Be sure to have at least one but preferably two characters (MC and/or Yukari) able to use Mediarama.
 

Guess Who

Banned
Umm well I'd probably use Yukari over Koromaru since she's a good healer. Be sure to have at least one but preferably two characters (MC and/or Yukari) able to use Mediarama.

Not to mention Koromaru is weak to Light and Sleeping Table knows Hamaon.
 

Squire

Banned
You could always just youtube a P4 playthrough

As an aside, im on my 3rd run of P4 (playing it to document differences between vanilla version and P4G) and the social links are still fresh.

They were fresh the second time I played it and I'd be surprised if they weren't the third.
 
Umm well I'd probably use Yukari over Koromaru since she's a good healer. Be sure to have at least one but preferably two characters (MC and/or Yukari) able to use Mediarama.

Alright ill take that advice and damn.. Yukari is so close to Mediarama. Wish me luck.
 

LowParry

Member
So P4 being my first Persona game (ever, seriously), I'm pretty happy with what I've played so far. I think I'm about 30 hours in and the 2nd Semester of school has just started. How much more of the game I got? I don't think I want the game to end.

And in good spirit of the game, I went and got me P4A which is pretty damn fun though I'm skipping the story mode stuff for now.

And then there's the anime that I think I want to check out at some point. Maybe. Hell, there's so much P4 content to check out.

And Teddie's probably my favorite character of the bunch though Kanji's a real close second.
 
Okay I seriously need help with a boss fight in Persona 3 FES Edition(PS2 Classic)

I'm on the Sleeping Table boss on floor 135 and it is a pain in my side to freaking kill this thing. My current party I'm trying is Junpei,Koromaru,and Akihiko. Every time I get to Half its HP, It uses its almighty magic skill and It completely destroys me. All my characters are in the mid 40's. I tried looking for guides on this thing and nothing helped.


Any Ideas guys?

Here's a video of me beating the boss, could help:http://youtu.be/z0Oi4Llg2dw?t=2h3m18s

Note that I never trained Junpei, Koromaru, or Shinjiroat all. I just brought them in for that fight and had no problems.
 
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