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Persona Community Thread |OT6| Where 6 Comes Before 5 (No PQ or P4U spoilers!)
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
/vomits
The themes of friendship are pretty much on the same level.
Fasten your seatbelts friends, because I'm about to steer us back to the topic you are all avoiding. I thought we were taught to accept our darker inner thoughts? Should we not reach out to the truth?
Will we see persona 5 at TGS? It pretty much has to be delayed if we don't see it then right?
Let us come together for an all out attack on this question. Armada, I expect a 3 page report on this matter by the time I wake up.
Will we see persona 5 at TGS? It pretty much has to be delayed if we don't see it then right?
Let us come together for an all out attack on this question. Armada, I expect a 3 page report on this matter by the time I wake up.
I expect nothing at this point. Atlus gonna Atlus.
To be fair KH has yet to have the final boss be beaten by a Deus ex Friendshipina.
To be fair KH has yet to have the final boss be beaten by a Deus ex Friendshipina.
I highly doubt it. Would be neat and I'd love to be wrong though.
Persona is significantly better at it.
Both series can be rather on the nose with it, but KH has an issue with very explicitly, repeatedly using the term "friendship" and all its variations there of. It does the same thing with its "good vs. evil" theme in that characters are always discussing light vs. darkness.
The series has to assume the audience is mostly eight year olds and it doesn't trust them to pick up on even a hint of subtlety.
I loved KH2 when I was younger. I haven't been able to play it in years and I'm looking forward to the remaster. I expect to still love it, but if there's one thing I'm not counting on holding up particularly well, it's the writing. Earnest as it is.
I think Persona does it better because the entire premise lets them approach it from a psychological perspective. Kingdom Hearts is sort of... It feels like it does it without blending into anything. Everyone in Sora's circle is gung-ho about friendship but it rarely actually factors into the story or game mechanics bar Sora's motivation and Birth by Sleep. I suppose it is part of the light v. dark, but it feels sort of forced into that.
Ljrivarola
Banned
I doubt it. I'd love to see it there, but still, I doubt it.
Yeah, I agree with you. I played the remaster of the first KH last year and I felt that the writing has no subtlety. Especially, like you say, regarding the whole "good vs. evil" thing. I still love those games, though.
Persona handles friendship in a pretty great way imo. There's a strong sense of unity between the groups, and their relationships are intricate and endearing. It's just the P4A series that gets needlessly cheesy at times.
As an aside, I went into KH1:FM thinking that the less convoluted nature of the narrative was better than KH2's.
It wasn't.
As an aside, I went into KH1:FM thinking that the less convoluted nature of the narrative was better than KH2's.
It wasn't.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
GamingBird
Member
Does anyone know if the dancing game will be revealed at during TGS period? Doesn't have to be a TGS event.
Since the fighting game is history by the end of this month.
Since the fighting game is history by the end of this month.
I agree on most fronts.
I do feel that both do an excellent job at expressing the friendship theme through gameplay though. Persona through team-building synergy and Social Links, and Kingdom Hearts with its limits, D-Links and general "strength through support" party dynamics. Both really hammer home "friendship as strength" in distinctly practical terms.
I think a lot of the ham-fistedness on KH's part is a good deal in part because of its younger audience. That doesn't necessarily excuse the sheer volume of it, but It doesn't particularly bother me because of that. If KH were completely targeted at older teens and adults I would be far less magnanimous.
KH1's pathos fails mainly on account of the love interest being made of cardboard.
Actually let's call it Kairiboard, because calling it otherwise would insult the complexity and symbolism of cards.
Not that Riku being a huge irredeemable asshole for 90% of the game helped.
I was referring to Arena, but I agree about the mainline Persona games handling it better. Arena, not so much. It wasn't subtle at all, at least in Elizabeth's route. Still a fun read though. It wasn't cheesy enough to give me acid reflux at least.
We haven't exactly been avoiding the topic. It's just been discussed a lot to death and people moved on for the moment.
That said, I think we'll hear something at TGS. Probably not much more than a teaser to show it's still in development however.
Persona can be cheesy at times, of course. When you deal with themes of companionship and love that sort of thing cheese is always going to be present to a degree.
Persona does those themes far more justice than Kingdom Hearts because most of the characters have complexity and depth to them. While on the other hand most of Kingdom Hearts cast are one dimensional character archetypes that don't subvert their tropes, or they're a licensed character who's primary appeal is that they're in this fan mash up game.
Don't mean to crap on Kingdom Hearts, I get why people love it. The first one was fun, for sure.
Not expecting it to appear.
Persona does those themes far more justice than Kingdom Hearts because most of the characters have complexity and depth to them. While on the other hand most of Kingdom Hearts cast are one dimensional character archetypes that don't subvert their tropes, or they're a licensed character who's primary appeal is that they're in this fan mash up game.
Don't mean to crap on Kingdom Hearts, I get why people love it. The first one was fun, for sure.
Not expecting it to appear.
No idea, honestly. We've gone about 9 months since that initial reveal and we know about as much now about the game as we did back then.
Personally, I just try not to think about it too much. It makes the wait much more difficult.
Did you ever play Dream Drop Distance? Because boy, did they forget what kind of game they were making at the end.
Last Tuesday.
Ljrivarola
Banned
I think it'll be shown some time before October, but not at TGS.
Same here.
You know the drill, there's a mess that needs a cleanin
Past me is close (very close), but he is ultimately wrong. You see, the best JoJo isn't the coolest, smartest or even the most powerful protagonist. They are none of those of things, and yet one might they transcend all of those things. Where am I going with this? I'm not sure myself, but one thing's for sure:
It has truly, truly been a roundabout path
Meet Johnny Joestar; an ace horse jockey, with a penchant for glory, hot chicks and a good time. One could say he was living the high life, but fate had other plans, and his glory, hotties and good times were abruptly cut short after a terrible incident that left him unable to walk. Losing the ability to walk was bad enough on its own, but for a horse jockey? It was practically a death sentence. With no friends, no hopes or dreams, Johnny was barely alive, wandering the earth. Eventually he winds up in the "Steel Ball Run" a race that spans the globe. The winner is awarded 50 million dollars, but Johnny isn't in it for the money...
To keep it short, Johnny is nothing like the other JoJo protagonists. He isn't a hero. He isn't fighting to slay vampires, defeat buff fitness gods, slay vampires (again), take down a serial killer, kill a mob boss or thwart the plans of a psycho priest. He is entire motivation boils down to wanting to be a better person. A less than zero. That kind of honest selfishness is something I came to appreciate over the course of part 7. He's a deeply flawed character; with nonexistent self-esteem , a defeatist attitude and a viciously unscrupulous nature. But the counterpoint to that is that Part 7 was basically a coming of age story for Johnny. He does the most growing out of any JoJo protagonist in the series, and by the end of it, he's practically unrecognizable.
So in short, It's Johnny, (not Joseph, Josuke or Jolyne) that should be the Persona 5 protagonist.
PK Gaming said:
Past me is close (very close), but he is ultimately wrong. You see, the best JoJo isn't the coolest, smartest or even the most powerful protagonist. They are none of those of things, and yet one might they transcend all of those things. Where am I going with this? I'm not sure myself, but one thing's for sure:
It has truly, truly been a roundabout path
Meet Johnny Joestar; an ace horse jockey, with a penchant for glory, hot chicks and a good time. One could say he was living the high life, but fate had other plans, and his glory, hotties and good times were abruptly cut short after a terrible incident that left him unable to walk. Losing the ability to walk was bad enough on its own, but for a horse jockey? It was practically a death sentence. With no friends, no hopes or dreams, Johnny was barely alive, wandering the earth. Eventually he winds up in the "Steel Ball Run" a race that spans the globe. The winner is awarded 50 million dollars, but Johnny isn't in it for the money...
To keep it short, Johnny is nothing like the other JoJo protagonists. He isn't a hero. He isn't fighting to slay vampires, defeat buff fitness gods, slay vampires (again), take down a serial killer, kill a mob boss or thwart the plans of a psycho priest. He is entire motivation boils down to wanting to be a better person. A less than zero. That kind of honest selfishness is something I came to appreciate over the course of part 7. He's a deeply flawed character; with nonexistent self-esteem , a defeatist attitude and a viciously unscrupulous nature. But the counterpoint to that is that Part 7 was basically a coming of age story for Johnny. He does the most growing out of any JoJo protagonist in the series, and by the end of it, he's practically unrecognizable.
So in short, It's Johnny, (not Joseph, Josuke or Jolyne) that should be the Persona 5 protagonist.
I did, and I laughed my ass off when it turned out that
the villain's evil plan was to turn Sora into an Ansem.
I agree. I take it in stride, but the criticism definitely holds.
Honestly, I just want to know which artists they got to remix the music for DAN. I don't even need a trailer; just a list would suffice.
Yeah, I was laughing at that and (ending spoilers, but this is really dumb, and not in a good way)
Yeah, I was laughing at that and (ending spoilers, but this is really dumb, and not in a good way)
the fact that, despite being the second-to-last game in the arc they're building, they decide to throw time travel into the mix, despite it not being foreshadowed at all. That, and they could follow Sora's movements because he had the letter X on his shirt.
I remember watching this youtube video, it was like just the MF battle theme and I was listening to it, and someone had the WMG and I was like "No fucking way, that's dumb."
AND THEN IT CAME COMPLETELY TRUE.
I've been thinking about the themes of P5 in terms of protagonist design, music, and overall style. All we have to go off are the color red, balls and chains, and the theme of "emancipation".
I've always had the feeling that Soejima designed the P3 and P4 protagonists to appeal exactly to the audience they were trying to reach. Sounds pretty obvious when you say it, but looking into their designs, P3's protagonist is a character who seems unattached, while P4's protagonist seems very posh and preppy. Each of their games defy that look through the themes. P3 is about becoming very very aware of the life you're given, and not becoming unattached from others. P4 is about not taking everything on a shallow, face value.
Therefore, I think that the theme of P5 is going to be punk. Specifically, the "yankii" culture in Japan. This is a very urban-america influenced movement, rising again in a period of low incomes in Japan. It's associated with rap and punk music, both of which we've seen Meguro tackle in the past. With all the red and white in the imagery, the black balls and chains, it gives off a very tough, edgy vibe. The kind you'd expect from a punk album. You can see those characters now, people who reject authority and defy conservative conventions
However, because this comes out of a lower-income bracket in japan, there's also a strong resentment towards society, especially a feeling of being constrained by the world around you. Growing up into an environment where the future is more uncertain than the generations before you, where you're not guaranteed to find a stable, long-term income. These kinds of "punks" also tend to run from their problems rather than face them head on. They put on a tough mask to avoid the issues that are holding them back (we saw this with Kanji, for sure). The protagonist can be someone who looks like he wants to put on a tough face and not deal with his problems, but the game can defy that thinking, much like the P3 and P4 protagonists did.
Now, I'm making a lot of giant generalizations here, but I feel some of the clues are there. I could be entirely wrong in this line of thinking, but I guess we'll see!
I've always had the feeling that Soejima designed the P3 and P4 protagonists to appeal exactly to the audience they were trying to reach. Sounds pretty obvious when you say it, but looking into their designs, P3's protagonist is a character who seems unattached, while P4's protagonist seems very posh and preppy. Each of their games defy that look through the themes. P3 is about becoming very very aware of the life you're given, and not becoming unattached from others. P4 is about not taking everything on a shallow, face value.
Therefore, I think that the theme of P5 is going to be punk. Specifically, the "yankii" culture in Japan. This is a very urban-america influenced movement, rising again in a period of low incomes in Japan. It's associated with rap and punk music, both of which we've seen Meguro tackle in the past. With all the red and white in the imagery, the black balls and chains, it gives off a very tough, edgy vibe. The kind you'd expect from a punk album. You can see those characters now, people who reject authority and defy conservative conventions
However, because this comes out of a lower-income bracket in japan, there's also a strong resentment towards society, especially a feeling of being constrained by the world around you. Growing up into an environment where the future is more uncertain than the generations before you, where you're not guaranteed to find a stable, long-term income. These kinds of "punks" also tend to run from their problems rather than face them head on. They put on a tough mask to avoid the issues that are holding them back (we saw this with Kanji, for sure). The protagonist can be someone who looks like he wants to put on a tough face and not deal with his problems, but the game can defy that thinking, much like the P3 and P4 protagonists did.
Now, I'm making a lot of giant generalizations here, but I feel some of the clues are there. I could be entirely wrong in this line of thinking, but I guess we'll see!
Also, doing punks would be Jojo as hell.
Red The Hunter
Member
I'm gonna throw this out there and say we may have another countdown stream again for something like P5. Just a thought.
They announced artists Tetsuya Komuro and Daisuke Asakura to be doing remixes for P4D, and this was right after the November announcement stream.
ian to the max
Member
Quick question (sorry if this is dumb but I can't find any info anywhere):
So, I just grabbed both Persona 2 titles off PlayStation Network during the sale. I noticed that Eternal Punishment is playable on PlayStation 3, Vita, and PlayStation Portable. Does it support cross-save between PS3 and Vita by any chance?
I assume the answer is no but Rogue Legacy has spoiled me with this feature and I'm hoping for good news.
So, I just grabbed both Persona 2 titles off PlayStation Network during the sale. I noticed that Eternal Punishment is playable on PlayStation 3, Vita, and PlayStation Portable. Does it support cross-save between PS3 and Vita by any chance?
I assume the answer is no but Rogue Legacy has spoiled me with this feature and I'm hoping for good news.
Red The Hunter
Member
No cross-save feature since it's a PS1 classic, but you can transfer saves between system through the PS Vita's Content Manager.
I wouldn't say it's deep at all either. Them themes are pretty straight forward.
It's the plot that's all weird and convoluted now :/
It tried to be too ambitious while the franchise was being milked.
I would seriously fucking love this. Would love to hear Meguro take on the music to fit in that style, that's actually potentially the most exciting thing about it. Meguro composed shout-a-long anthems yeeeeeeeeees.
ian to the max
Member
Cool cool, thanks for the reply.
Love it, that sounds awesome. Here's hoping we see P5 at TGS, you just made me even more hyped (I love the fan concepts, the AtlusXP5 stuff was pretty fun aside from the repeats of Persona 3's story).
*vomits*
Also, I imagine that there's a third person in the scene.
I just want to see the new character designs, as well as know who's playable.
If it turns out that Narukami and Rise are the only ones with new outfits, I shall be very disappointed.
There'll be a lot more than just those two though. Apparently those are pretty well known guys, so I bet you they're only doing like one track each.
How Persona 5's Social Links are going to evolve:
My money is on Marie. I just don't really feel that the production company will push her that hard, only for Atlus to have her appear as a DLC character in P4AUltimax.
My money is on Marie. I just don't really feel that the production company will push her that hard, only for Atlus to have her appear as a DLC character in P4AUltimax.
GamingBird
Member
For those in the "know"... how much unique content are there between the P4 & P3 MCs in PQ?
Are there tons of unique scenes exclusive to each playthrough depending on which MC you are in the game?
Are there tons of unique scenes exclusive to each playthrough depending on which MC you are in the game?
Does anyone else feel like they announced P4D too early? It makes sense for P5, but P4D isn't a big game for them, so when they reshow it, it'll just be like "HEY GUYS, REMEMBER THIS?".
I think so too, for sure. Especially with all her music-themed stuff in P4GA.
Yup, same here.
I think so too, for sure. Especially with all her music-themed stuff in P4GA.
Yup, same here.
BrandoBoySP
Neo Member
What's the difference between the story mode presentation in P4A and P4AU? I'm reading through the topic but I can't find at all where it's mentioned--I know in P4A everyone had their own separate story that follows the same general beats, but I read P4AU's is different...?
Lollipop Dave
Member
I don't think it was announced too early, I think you guys are expecting more content too soon.
End of August, that's when well see something.
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https://twitter.com/ATLUS_goods/status/499829092552691712
Yu guys, have a drink.
The Dingo Miku games were heavier on dlc than the current ones. I hope they don't take that route again.
Never heard of Yankii before, sadly it seems more delinquent than what I was hoping when you said punk.
Now I want it to be based around the more 70's punk. Would be right up my alley.
Oh boy, I bet they do! P4D is ripe for DLC.
Lollipop Dave
Member
Lets hope they take note and keep it to a minimun.
I mean, November to August for a relatively niche title seems like too long of a stretch, in my opinion. And to be honest, I think it might even be the beginning of September when we start to see something about it.
Also, I think they'll milk the DLC for it really hard. I just hope there's a good amount of content in the base game.
I want that glass.
Lollipop Dave
Member
Ive always thought that because Dingo's biggest release (Love live) is on the 28th August so we won't see anything till after that. TGS is almost 3 weeks into September so that could be the ideal place to showcase new content.
One thing the Miku games have plenty of is content, though its arguably a larger franchise to pull from.
Ripe, yes- but I think the point is that they should show some restraint with this.
Like I say, I really hope there's a lot of content in the base release of P4D.
P4G would suggest that they might do, but Ultimax would suggest that they might not. I think it could completely go either way.
Lollipop Dave
Member
We've all got to save our pocket money for the big F.I.V.E after all.