It... it feels nice being vindicated by the big man himself
Who's the she they're talking about?
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Persona Community Thread |OT6| Where 6 Comes Before 5 (No PQ or P4U spoilers!)
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
Who's the she they're talking about?
Elizabeth.
He basically says that she wasn't designed to be zany and eccentric, that's just how the fans perceived her, and so that's what she became.
As an aside, it actually drives me crazy that the Persona Team do that kind of thing so often. Arena is full of it and I'm willing to bet that Q is too.
A Dead Diehard
Member
That's fair. She wasn't necessarily insane in P3, she was just experiencing the wonders of the world outside the velvet room... which made her look insane. *shrug*
Also, yes. Making the characters into caricatures is counter-productive for any series. Especially an RPG series where character development is one of its most famous mechanics.
I think the FES request scenes is part of Elizabeth's character evolution Soejima talks about. Throwing tons of coins into a fountain or spontaneously dancing in a mall is as insane or moreso than whatever she does in the spin-offs.
And I'm okay with the further personality developments of Elizabeth, Makoto and Yu. The former two are perfect, and the latter is alright.
Reanimatoin
Member
It doesnt bother me too much that they're doing it in these fun little spin-off type games, it would bother me if they did it in a true sequel however. (By true sequel I mean an RPG sequel directly following the events of the initial game)
Imagine if they'd have done it for The Answer section of P3, that would have been bad, that's why it doesnt bother me that they do it in these off shoots.
I dont think they'll ever do a full sequel to any mainline persona game though, stuff like The Answer I can see them maybe doing in the future, dependent on scenario of course, but an FFX > FFX-2 type thing I just dont see happening.
TheMrPliskin
Member
I don't mind the change for Elizabeth but then again I don't remember how she was initially. In general though I really don't like the idea of changing characters based on fans perceptions of them, they've done it in the spin offs so far and it's really disappointing.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I was holding it in until the sexual harassment lawsuit.
I don't think they went out of the way to change characters based on fan feedback. Elizabeth, Yu and Makoto feel like the special exception.
Elizabeth was a total non-character in the original version of Persona 3. The additional development she recei ved in FES seem like a proper attempt at characterizing her.
The Threetagonist and Fourtagonist respectively were conceived audience surrogates, but as Soejima has pointed out, things like the anime, movie, manga drama CD, and even fan response (Japan pretty much exclusively refers to Yu as "Bancho" for instance, which was worked into his P4A title) helped mold them into the characters they're perceived as today. Hell, Makoto wasn't even supposed supposed to be the apathetic, reserved guy. According to the P3 databook, Soejima tried to make him look as neutral as possible!
Elizabeth was a total non-character in the original version of Persona 3. The additional development she recei ved in FES seem like a proper attempt at characterizing her.
The Threetagonist and Fourtagonist respectively were conceived audience surrogates, but as Soejima has pointed out, things like the anime, movie, manga drama CD, and even fan response (Japan pretty much exclusively refers to Yu as "Bancho" for instance, which was worked into his P4A title) helped mold them into the characters they're perceived as today. Hell, Makoto wasn't even supposed supposed to be the apathetic, reserved guy. According to the P3 databook, Soejima tried to make him look as neutral as possible!
TheMrPliskin
Member
For me it's all of the stuff that they did in the spin offs with the continual mentions of stuff like Yukiko's cooking or Kanji being really dumb for some reason or even the weird digs at Ken in Ultimax, it makes the characters feel really one note and takes away a huge part of what makes the mainline entries so great and most of the stuff seems to be based on one off instances from the mainline games that fans have latched onto and thus have become part of the characters.
I've come to accept that I'll likely have to deal with that for spinoff stuff and I can as long as there's some good character interactions and Ultimax had some on the P3 side I just need more of that.
That seems like a side-effect of having different writers, rather than a conscious decision to change characterization. If anything, it was that they tried too hard at making the characters like their P3/P4 selves that caused them to fail.
To much "remember when X did this?" It didn't come across as natural.
I'm kinda glad? At some point, putting music like that as fighting game BGM kinda takes away from the song itself, even though the game already has plenty of relatively inappropriate themes in it.
This. Kanji isn't the smartest dude but now they seem to think he's barely capable of forming coherent thoughts.
Kanji was always mocked for being dumb, although he had a self-awareness about it in the original game. ("Oh, I get it, what you really mean is 'Will you please beat the shit outta me Kanji?'") The problem lies in what PK refers to above, where certain already established character traits were blown up in P4G and the Arena series (and probably PQ and P4D) because of perhaps different writers, different creative oversight, less priority on proper characterization, etc. It's not the same thing as what Soejima's talking about with development past blank slates.
TheMrPliskin
Member
I imagine imagine it's probably a bit of this and perhaps a bit of a nod towards the fans but some of it is really confusing, I mean there's kind of a basis for the Yukiko stuff being mentioned a few times in P4 but then there's stuff like Kanji being really stupid or Junpei being really clumsy which feels like it's pulled from one scene and it's baffling that someone would look at that and decide to make that some sort of central part of the character. If they want to use one scene as a basis for the character then they should just make Kanji carry a bottle of booze everywhere.
I'd actually be ok with this, as long as I get a Dojima and Kanji drinking scene.
BassForever
Member
So is Aigis power up mode only worth using in battles I know I can end before she over heats? Used it against a boss and it just lead to minimal damage boost with turns of nothing that didn't seem to make up for it
Edit: FUCK THIS BITCH (Natural Dancer) USING SEXY DANCE OH MY GOD
Edit: FUCK THIS BITCH (Natural Dancer) USING SEXY DANCE OH MY GOD
Petrock123
Member
I knew it, even before you edited to say Natural Dancer. Had problems too. Narcissus has a chance to give an item that nulls charm, but only if you fused one and it had a heart symbol. That's RNG based I think, not guaranteed to fuse with that symbol, plus you said yours was taken from shuffle time, not fused. Without it, it's a lot of RNG. With it, it's only quite a bit of RNG. I think I brought Yukari, who I don't remember dying much (I think it uses wind and some phys attacks too? Yukari tanked wind but still took damage from phys). But I recall she was charmed for quite a bit of the battle so I had a lot less healing. Honestly not sure about many strategies with this, bad luck can find ways to screw you over against these bosses. I think this took me tons of tries, I think had some persona, maybe even narcissus, with natural resistance against her element and resist slash (I think) fused on with healing, and I think another wind-resistant persona I used for damage, while I had the item equipped so I couldn't be charmed.
I think later theres a battle where you fight three dancers (at least in P3P). They don't spam only charm, but they use lots of ailments in general.
BassForever
Member
LOL no way I can't believe that worked
I just dumped my party, went in with my wind immune persona, and proceed to just melee my way to victory, using medical powder only if the natural dancer threw up it's counter thing or hit me with it's rare pierce attack. It took like 10 minutes but it worked
I just dumped my party, went in with my wind immune persona, and proceed to just melee my way to victory, using medical powder only if the natural dancer threw up it's counter thing or hit me with it's rare pierce attack. It took like 10 minutes but it worked
A Dead Diehard
Member
Yeah this is your first smt and this has actual party members but for reference in the ones where its you+demons, this works a lot of the time. Especially in the ones where XP is split between surviving members. Like in strange journey i actively screwed over my teammates for extra XP on bosses. And soloing works well all things considered.
It's funny, because they try to make Kanji sound philosophical in some instances but then they make him mispronounce 'subtle.'
A Dead Diehard
Member
Just chalk that up to the new writers being unable to grasp sub-buttle-ty.
snow in jamaica
Member
get ready for proswagonist gags in pq
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Pretty much. Granted, they get alot of positive feedback to this, so...
A Dead Diehard
Member
So, loss of overall substance, but the fans forgive it due to the addition of comedic hijinks...
Fuck. This is Mass Effect all over again...
I feel like pointing out that that isn't a bad thing
PQ confirmed for the worst game ever made.
A Dead Diehard
Member
P3/4
The Persona equivalent of Synthesis is explicitly what the villains of P3 and P4 were trying to do!
EDIT: PQ kinda
PQ's shown itself to be more faithful than Arena.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
ME is a JRPG with dating sim parts too, it makes sense!
A Dead Diehard
Member
... Mass Effect is Canadian.
But you're absolutely right about the growing fixation on the romantic aspect.
Ah well. I'll always have SMT for summoning Mara and six-titted Satan.
So reading this got me wondering.... Has anyone else here actually tried a solo P3 run? It's actually quite enjoyable due to the degree of freedom you get.
PQ details:
There aren't any, from what i've seen. If anything, PQ seems to enjoy going into the opposite direction with Yu's character. IE putting him in a bunch of silly situations, like in Persona 4 Golden.
Petrock123
Member
If Narukami is supposed to act like how the fans think he acts, then he should just always act like the King. Supposedly he's always cool and stuff, best with the ladies (compared to the others in the group), etc. right? For example apparently cross-dressing raised his popularity still according to Yosuke?
Did it? I only recall negative reactions from the crowd.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Maybe it's a retcon?
I don't really remember Yosuke saying that, let alone the context. So I'm not sure.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Mild-mannered, reserved exterior with a goofy interior?
Hmm...
Must... suppress... girl preference!
A Dead Diehard
Member
Dagnabbit! Should've seen that coming...
EDIT: Also, how much of this flanderization can we blame on Hiimdaisy?
EDIT: Also, how much of this flanderization can we blame on Hiimdaisy?
I think you guys are going to enjoy PQ.
I'm indifferent to the narrative, but the character interactions are a lot stronger in PQ than in P4AU. It's a little less "by the books, remember when he/she did X" You genuinely learn new stuff about the characters.
So uh... look forward to that.
I'm indifferent to the narrative, but the character interactions are a lot stronger in PQ than in P4AU. It's a little less "by the books, remember when he/she did X" You genuinely learn new stuff about the characters.
So uh... look forward to that.
Super happy to hear that, so excited to see more of the P3 cast in their primes. P4 characters will be fun too but man we've seen sooo much of them at this point.
Petrock123
Member
Sorry, I wasn't serious about thinking that he should always acting like he does when drunk, I don't think I made it obvious at all. Though I do think he should dick around with his friends more based off of some options he gets, idk, some of them are kind of mean though. Though its amusing, he doesn't act anything like that in the game for the King's Game, and I see it as him being rather ashamed of some of the things he has to do. I think a lot of his swag simply has to do with a few events that aren't really consistent with how he actually acts most of the time. Maybe his ability to date several girls, King's game, idk what else atm.
Yeah sorry, I think I was supposed to a spoiler that said jk in it at the end but I forgot to edit it in. Oh well. As you said, it's kind of how we all like to joke about the swag the protagonist has.
And actually, maybe I'm not looking especially hard, but I haven't actually seen anyone seriously think that Narukami is a swag master or something like that. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
Actually that might have been something in PQ my bad.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Really happy to hear that. I was kinda worried that PQ character interactions would be more stagnant than Arena ones, if only because the characters are still in the middle of their stories. Relieved to know that this isn't true.
Changing topics, a couple questions to all those from PGaf who have the blu-ray for Persona Music Fes 2013 in Nippon Budokan. Is it worth the money? If so, where'd you order it from? And does it come with a CD so I can get the songs on my computer easily? Sorry if these are answered earlier in the thread (I seem to recall it getting rave reviews) but I was seriously considering buying it and wanted to check a couple things first.
snow in jamaica
Member
Nice. Do you know japanese? Where's this impression coming from?