Support NeoGAF

[Sophia]

because the writing team does the vast majority of the work on social links, there isn't much else to spend there time on as the story will be mostly finished well before the development on the game.

If you still are expecting social links then how much time are attention are you actually think is being diverted to turn some of them romances. And in persona 3 vanilla you cant just do social links without romance unless you just ignore the romanceable characters

Except for... you know... creating and programming all the animations, setting up all the dialogue trees, dialogue flags, multiple routes, and making sure that there's nothing like infinite loops or game breaking bugs as a result of a player's choice.

Also, writing teams do not usually work independently of the rest of the team like that. =P

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Except for... you know... creating and programming all the animations, setting up all the dialogue trees, dialogue flags, multiple routes, and making sure that there's nothing like infinite loops or game breaking bugs as a result of a player's choice.

Also, writing teams do not usually work independently of the rest of the team like that. =P

none of that is at all challenging or time consuming. Most time spent there would be on testing more than actual development. Animators are the only other ones with a decent amount of work there

 

[FluxWaveZ]

because the writing team does the vast majority of the work on social links, there isn't much else to spend there time on as the story will be mostly finished well before the development on the game.

If you still are expecting social links then how much time are attention are you actually think is being diverted to turn some of them romances. And in persona 3 vanilla you cant just do social links without romance unless you just ignore the romanceable characters

That's assuming that the decision to implement romance options is tacked on at a late stage in development and isn't organically carried through since the planning phase. Writers also do not represent the majority of the work that would go into that aspect of the game. Programmers, artists, designers, voice actors, etc. would also work on that element. And those are resources that could be diverted elsewhere.

And your last paragraph makes it sound like you just want romance/dating options implemented as an afterthought, kind of like they were in P3 and P4. If there was to be dating involved in the game again, I would want it to be a more substantial component of the game rather than it being superficial just so players could feel good about having the option to date a character or whatever. That would mean putting in the effort to make sure romance options are meaningful, or at least acknowledged much better in the main story than they have been.

While you can't max out S. Links in P3 with romanceable characters without romancing them, you still can engage in that aspect of the game without doing so. That's my point. You could have S. Links without romance, but not the other way around.

none of that is at all challenging or time consuming. Most time spent there would be on testing more than actual development. Animators are the only other ones with a decent amount of work there

Coming from someone who actually worked in development, this is absolutely wrong.

 

[Sophia]

Coming from someone who actually worked in development, this is absolutely wrong.

Adding onto this, it's all stuff that becomes more and more complex as your game becomes more advanced. The bigger the world, the more options offered to player, the more variables that a programmer has to keep track. The more detailed the animations, or the quality of the graphics, the more the animators have to create. It's all stuff they do while working alongside the writing team to ensure there's no glaring problems like a player being able to trigger an event when they're not suppose to.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Coming from someone who actually worked in development, this is absolutely wrong.

triggers requirements, route programming, flags, and other such requirements for building out these trees is not difficult for the average developer. Especially if things are organized properly. However you are right that my point of view was that of P4G style, which I was viewing as the bare minimum. Properly integrating into the main story is a lot trickier

 

[Mediking]

Still waiting on my Mitsuru successor... Must...fight...urge...to.... TOO LATE!!!!!!

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Still waiting on my Mitsuru successor... Must...fight...urge...to.... TOO LATE!!!!!!

Attempts at replicating Mitsuru are doomed to failure.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Attempts at replicating any character, instead of creating each to be their own unique individual in a character-driven series like Persona, are doomed to failure.

 

[Mediking]

Attempts at replicating Mitsuru are doomed to failure.

Not necessarily replicating... but a succesor. As in... a character that SURPASSES her on personality and looks and... Aw, come on! Let a guy dream! ;_;

 

[Aadrian1234]

Spoiler

Just met Aigis. She seems to be a "goofy robot doing goofy robot things" character so far, which I hope changes because given how P3 apparently tackles some existential themes (which hasn't been addressed much so far), "robot with human feelings" could be amazing, it's one of my favorite tropes.

You met Aigis? Great, you have finally started P3

triggers requirements, route programming, flags, and other such requirements for building out these trees is not difficult for the average developer. Especially if things are organized properly. However you are right that my point of view was that of P4G style, which I was viewing as the bare minimum. Properly integrating into the main story is a lot trickier

I think you underestimate how much this stacks up as you add more and more to a game.

 

[PK Gaming]

I think my opinion of it might increase, because it would convey confidence, in that they don't need to rely on dating elements to achieve the quality they desire in a modern Persona game. Would also mean that attention was spent elsewhere, with features I might actually engage with.

Persona 5 doesn't need dating elements to be successful, but I also wouldn't say it's a crutch either. It's a feature that has immense appeal, and Persona's execution on the concept has been fairly solid (so much so that even Bioware writers were impressed by it). Persona in general is very good at getting the player to connect to characters on an intimate level, and dating is the logical conclusion to that.

It's not something I would discount.

 

[Zolo]

Many games have realized the power of the dating simulator. Bioware, Fire Emblem, Persona, and probably others I can't remember.

 

[Olengie]

I can live without the dating simulator if it came to that but I will miss it for sure.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Persona 5 doesn't need dating elements to be successful, but I also wouldn't say it's a crutch either. It's a feature that has immense appeal, and Persona's execution on the concept has been fairly solid (so much so that even Bioware writers were impressed by it). Persona in general is very good at getting the player to connect to characters on an intimate level, and dating is the logical conclusion to that.

It's not something I would discount.

You misunderstand. I'm not discounting the dating/romance feature or even saying they're using it as a crutch. What I was arguing in that reply is that omitting the element entirely would be a brazen move that I would respect because it would be P Studio essentially saying, "This thing that a lot of people love in Persona games but that has also been tied egregiously to niche Japanese games in ways to satiate a specific audience from a superficial point of view for the sole purpose of boosting sales? Well, it's gone here; we don't need it." Almost (but to a much lesser degree) like the positive reactions to the removal of face touching in the localized version of Fire Emblem Fates some people had, but from a context where the element was never implemented in the first place.

This is aided by the fact that I myself don't much care for these elements.

Basically: It's a feature that obviously has a significant number of fans; constant waifu talk and the fact that most of the replies in a "What do you think of Persona X?" topic are about who the "best girl" is is fully indicative of that. I recognize and also myself appreciate how the Persona series executes this. At the same time, I personally have no great desire for it and, again, the romance options are not something I really engage with.

 

[cheez124]

i could live without the dating stuff, but i would miss it if it was removed. i liked all the extra scenes/events you could get in P4G, for example. they let you see more of a character even after their social link has been maxed, and show you a different side of them that the main story/social links might not show. as long as they continue to improve upon it, i'm good. i'm playing through P3 for the first time, and it's a liiittle creepy/awkward that you're forced to date almost every girl (and how it keeps reminding me "However, you're still just friends" after every rank until the last few, lol). at least P4 gave you an option, and P4G even (sorta) punished you for dating more than one girl, so they're getting there.

 

[cj_iwakura]

They seriously need to flesh dating out more, or remove it completely. Let it become a relationship, not hit-it-and-quit-it.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

i could live without the dating stuff, but i would miss it if it was removed. i liked all the extra scenes/events you could get in P4G, for example. they let you see more of a character even after their social link has been maxed, and show you a different side of them that the main story/social links might not show. as long as they continue to improve upon it, i'm good. i'm playing through P3 for the first time, and it's a liiittle creepy/awkward that you're forced to date almost every girl (and how it keeps reminding me "However, you're still just friends" after every rank until the last few, lol). at least P4 gave you an option, and P4G even (sorta) punished you for dating more than one girl, so they're getting there.

At the same time, I don't think players who decide to not engage with the dating elements should arbitrarily be given less content to enjoy compared to those who do engage with them. I think the games already kind of do strike that balance with how certain events can play differently if the main character is "single," but if they were to advance how the romance options are treated, I think they would also have to take players who choose to be friends with everyone instead into account.

 

[Ekai]

i could live without the dating stuff, but i would miss it if it was removed. i liked all the extra scenes/events you could get in P4G, for example. they let you see more of a character even after their social link has been maxed, and show you a different side of them that the main story/social links might not show. as long as they continue to improve upon it, i'm good. i'm playing through P3 for the first time, and it's a liiittle creepy/awkward that you're forced to date almost every girl (and how it keeps reminding me "However, you're still just friends" after every rank until the last few, lol). at least P4 gave you an option, and P4G even (sorta) punished you for dating more than one girl, so they're getting there.

P3P did essentially the same with the femc route. You could even choose whether to be a friend or a lover really.

 

[PK Gaming]

You misunderstand. I'm not discounting the dating/romance feature or even saying they're using it as a crutch. What I was arguing in that reply is that omitting the element entirely would be a brazen move that I would respect because it would be P Studio essentially saying, "This thing that a lot of people love in Persona games but that has also been tied egregiously to niche Japanese games in ways to satiate a specific audience from a superficial point of view for the sole purpose of boosting sales? Well, it's gone here; we don't need it." Almost (but to a much lesser degree) like the positive reactions to the removal of face touching in the localized version of Fire Emblem Fates some people had, but from a context where the element was never implemented in the first place.

This is aided by the fact that I myself don't much care for these elements.

Basically: It's a feature that obviously has a significant number of fans; constant waifu talk and the fact that most of the replies in a "What do you think of Persona X?" topic are about who the "best girl" is is fully indicative of that. I recognize and also myself appreciate how the Persona series executes this. At the same time, I personally have no great desire for it and, again, the romance options are not something I really engage with.

I get the dissatisfaction with the waifu culture and how dating perpetuates it, but at the same time, I feel like dating has value beyond appealing to the lowest common denominator. Dating adds a layer of character nuance that can't be expressed in traditional scenes. There's the overt stuff like the final slink scene but the smaller, subtler differences are what made it special. Things like talking to your partner in dungeons, at night, at school, during events and experiencing new dialogue was something I really enjoyed. And I feel like P-studio is in the position where it can truly be improved to a level where it's truly great (potentially blowing away the competition)

Incidentally, I don't think removing dating would be comparable to what happen Fire Emblem Fates. It wouldn’t be seen as a audacious move to make the game less "otaku-bait", but rather, I think it would serve to alienate most of their fans. Because at this point I really disagree with the assertion that dating satiated a specific audience; i'm pretty sure that dating is universally beloved by most fans.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

At the same time, I don't think players who decide to not engage with the dating elements should arbitrarily be given less content to enjoy compared to those who do engage with them. I think the games already kind of do strike that balance with how certain events can play differently if the main character is "single," but if they were to advance how the romance options are treated, I think they would also have to take players who choose to be friends with everyone instead into account.

Every large game is going to have content thats not for everyone. Gwent was fucking stupid in witcher 3 so I skipped it. I wouldnt expect things like the quests and gwent tournament to provide alternative ways to do them so I wouldnt have to play gwent.

Roleplaying a single character versus a dating character isn't an exact comparison with a mini game, but if they decided that valentine's day in P4 didn't have that extra scene if you were single (or blew everyone off) I would find it odd that people would complain about not having an alternative when they have deliberately ignored a piece of content. Valentine's day not being an event when you are roleplaying single would just make sense anyway.

 

[Zolo]

You misunderstand. I'm not discounting the dating/romance feature or even saying they're using it as a crutch. What I was arguing in that reply is that omitting the element entirely would be a brazen move that I would respect because it would be P Studio essentially saying, "This thing that a lot of people love in Persona games but that has also been tied egregiously to niche Japanese games in ways to satiate a specific audience from a superficial point of view for the sole purpose of boosting sales? Well, it's gone here; we don't need it."

I think the fact that they haven't included it in the mainline SMT games already shows they feel that way to a point.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

They seriously need to flesh dating out more, or remove it completely. Let it become a relationship, not hit-it-and-quit-it.

This I do agree with. Well at least the "flesh it out part." I'd rather them not remove it because I'd see that as admitting defeat. I'd rather see them work on making the system better, because honestly the whole thing was weak in P3 and P4.

I mean I enjoyed it, but still. Weak. Games need to do better with their portrayal of relationships.

 

[Zolo]

Personally, I dislike the protagonist worship more than anything in these kinds of games (including Bioware and any other self-insert RPG).

 

[Guess Who]

I don't think Atlus views the social link stuff as a "dating sim" in the same way a lot of people do. From the way the dev team describes it, social links were made to tie in to the time management/calendar system of Persona 3 and to simulate high school life by letting you choose who to spend that time with. Dating just happens to be a thing you can do as part of that system.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

This I do agree with. Well at least the "flesh it out part." I'd rather them not remove it because I'd see that as admitting defeat. I'd rather see them work on making the system better, because honestly the whole thing was weak in P3 and P4.

I mean I enjoyed it, but still. Weak. Games need to do better with their portrayal of relationships.

In all honesty, the only game that I feel could have the removal of romance possibly even considered a positive is P3 and FES. If only so that P3MC didn't have to be a seven-timing dickbag.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I don't think Atlus views the social link stuff as a "dating sim" in the same way a lot of people do. From the way the dev team describes it, social links were made to tie in to the time management/calendar system of Persona 3 and to simulate high school life by letting you choose who to spend that time with. Dating just happens to be a thing you can do as part of that system.

There's no feasible or fiscally reasonable way to address this, but that's one of my complaints with the S.Link system. Once you max a bond out, you're done. So I don't really get to choose who I hang out with.

It's the same shit in a Bioware type title. Once you get that fun

Spoiler

awful

booty-sex scene, your relationship basically fades away. It's weird.

 

[Zolo]

In all honesty, the only game that I feel could have the removal of romance possibly even considered a positive is P3 and FES. If only so that P3MC didn't have to be a seven-timing dickbag.

You can just roleplay it as Igor telling the MC he has to date all of them to get their max bond. Then he's seven-timing for the sake of taking down shadows!

 

[DNAbro]

The only way I could see them giving you a reason to hang out with social links( or whatever it will be) once they are done is if they give you(or the party member) a temporary stat boost next time you go into a dungeon or whatever. Like persona's of so and so arcana are a bit stronger, or your girlfriend gets attack boost at the start of battle.

 

[SinZega]

Man, just first-time finished persona 4(ps2) after a marathon of it and persona 3 fes(also first-time) and now I don't know what to do with myself. This game is really pushing me to get a ps4 for Persona 5.

I'm surprised how much I feel persona 4 is better than persona 3 in every way despite remember hearing how quite a few people liked persona 3 over persona 4. I found persona 3 to be rather mediocre even before I started persona 4.

Anyone know if the persona 4 arena games' and Dancing all night stories are worth continuing this journey?

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Man, just first-time finished persona 4(ps2) after a marathon of it and persona 3 fes(also first-time) and now I don't know what to do with myself. This game is really pushing me to get a ps4 for Persona 5.

I'm surprised how much I feel persona 4 is better than persona 3 in every way despite remember hearing how quite a few people liked persona 3 over persona 4. I found persona 3 to be rather mediocre even before I started persona 4.

Anyone know if the persona 4 arena games' and Dancing all night stories are worth continuing this journey?

The arena games are great. Just not for continuing the journey.

I can't comment on DAN, having not played it, but I have my doubts.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I get the dissatisfaction with the waifu culture and how dating perpetuates it, but at the same time, I feel like dating has value beyond appealing to the lowest common denominator. Dating adds a layer of character nuance that can't be expressed in traditional scenes. There's the overt stuff like the final slink scene but the smaller, subtler differences are what made it special. Things like talking to your partner in dungeons, at night, at school, during events and experiencing new dialogue was something I really enjoyed. And I feel like P-studio is in the position where it can truly be improved to a level where it's truly great (potentially blowing away the competition)

Incidentally, I don't think removing dating would be comparable to what happen Fire Emblem Fates. It wouldn’t be seen as a audacious move to make the game less "otaku-bait", but rather, I think it would serve to alienate most of their fans. Because at this point I really disagree with the assertion that dating satiated a specific audience; i'm pretty sure that dating is universally beloved by most fans.

Again, you're debating a point I'm not arguing against. I am not against dating or romance options in Persona games. I never said I was, and I in fact said the opposite in my last reply.

I recognize and also myself appreciate how the Persona series executes this.

For the FE:F point, I wasn't comparing the situation between both games. I was comparing the reactions, and how mine would match in a relative sense if dating were removed in Persona 5.

Every large game is going to have content thats not for everyone. Gwent was fucking stupid in witcher 3 so I skipped it. I wouldnt expect things like the quests and gwent tournament to provide alternative ways to do them so I wouldnt have to play gwent.

Roleplaying a single character versus a dating character isn't an exact comparison with a mini game, but if they decided that valentine's day in P4 didn't have that extra scene if you were single (or blew everyone off) I would find it odd that people would complain about not having an alternative when they have deliberately ignored a piece of content. Valentine's day not being an event when you are roleplaying single would just make sense anyway.

Dating a character, in a conceptual sense, should not represent a "plus" or a surplus of content versus an alternate route of maintaining a platonic relationship. It's not ignoring a piece of content. This is akin to saying that a game's "good protagonist route" should have more content than a game's "evil protagonist route," and that those taking the evil route are deliberately ignoring a piece of content. The choices of how to manifest a relationship between the characters is parallel, not perpendicular.

Championing romance options as the "preferred choice" would devalue romance options themselves, because players would inherently want to go for them to see more content, and not necessarily for the role-playing purposes that you're supporting. Both options should be treated as equals, and that will make the experience richer for players who explore either ends of the spectrum.

 

[Modest Mauser]

There's no feasible or fiscally reasonable way to address this, but that's one of my complaints with the S.Link system. Once you max a bond out, you're done. So I don't really get to choose who I hang out with.

It's the same shit in a Bioware type title. Once you get that fun

Spoiler

awful

booty-sex scene, your relationship basically fades away. It's weird.

They could fix that by having relationships you build be more integrated into the plot, so it affects dialogue and plot events outside the social link scenes. That way it would have more meaning and it wouldn't feel like it ends abruptly once you've maxed the link.

P4G kinda took some steps towards that. If you dated someone and maxed the link, there's still Christmas and Valentine's day scenes later. And if you

Spoiler

got Adachi's link to the right level, it opens up a new possible ending based on that relationship. Plus Marie's stuff.

Anyhow, I'm curious to see what changes they'll bring to the s-link system, seeing as they decided to rename it in Persona 5.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I think the fact that they haven't included it in the mainline SMT games already shows they feel that way to a point.

I guess so, but I think dating sim elements would be far more dissonant in SMT games compared to the Persona series due to the setting. The high school concept the Persona games go for makes relationship building and dating a natural evolution, while it would outright conflict with SMT in a very bad way that would alienate its fans.

However, you'll find that SMT fans have bemoaned some of the decisions they've been making since SMT IV, with designs like Isabeau, Nozomi, Asahi, etc. Kazuyuki Yamai also spoke about how some of the younger Atlus developers had differing philosophies in that sense than the veterans during the development of SMT IV, which caused disagreements. The younger developers, due to the media they've been exposed to, wanted to reduce the harshness and cruel vibe of SMT, while the veterans wanted to maintain it. In that sense, the SMT series is already kind of changing like that.

 

[PK Gaming]

Again, you're debating a point I'm not arguing against. I am not against dating or romance options in Persona games. I never said I was, and I in fact said the opposite in my last reply.

I always did poorly on tests where you had to read an essay + answer questions because reading comprehension escapes me

 

[cheez124]

At the same time, I don't think players who decide to not engage with the dating elements should arbitrarily be given less content to enjoy compared to those who do engage with them. I think the games already kind of do strike that balance with how certain events can play differently if the main character is "single," but if they were to advance how the romance options are treated, I think they would also have to take players who choose to be friends with everyone instead into account.

i think that's more of an issue with the social link system in general, which others here have already mentioned. there's no real way to hang out with certain characters after their s. link has been maxed, unless you date them. if there was, then people, such as yourself, who don't like romancing characters wouldn't feel so left out. i think that's part of what makes the dating sim stuff so popular, since you get to see more of a character you like during events, special dialogues, etc. i suppose one way to go about fixing this would be to make more event scenes where you can hang out with characters as just friends (as opposed to how P4G does it, where it's usually either "girl you're dating" or "hang with the guys"). of course, this would take a lot more effort to pull off

we'll just have to wait and see what P5 does, and it seems that they've definitely made some changes to the social link system

 

[Funyarinpa]

P4G SPOILERS

Spoiler

Wait what, is there an ending that changes based on your relationship?! Where can I see the Rise variant of that?

Regarding S. Links, would you like it if S. Links were restructured so that their rank lowers with time (so say you don't hang out with someone for a couple weeks and their rank drops down)? It'd have to be permanent at a threshold though and there would have to be more times to choose what to do every day.

I can relate to the "Link fading away after you max it" problem, though I admit that I hanged out with Rise even after maxing her Link and romancing her for the sake of roleplay lol

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Anyone know if the persona 4 arena games' and Dancing all night stories are worth continuing this journey?

Your mileage may vary with the spinoffs. If you enjoyed the original game, I think dancing all night is worth playing even without the story.

I can't really speak of Persona Q because haven't finished it but there's a lot of praise for that game.

 

[Guess Who]

Regarding S. Links, would you like it if S. Links were restructured so that their rank lowers with time (so say you don't hang out with someone for a couple weeks and their rank drops down)? It'd have to be permanent at a threshold though and there would have to be more times to choose what to do every day.

You're playing P3 right now, right? In P3 there's actually quite a few ways to reverse or even totally break social links, but that mechanic was almost entirely removed in P4 (I think there's only two links where you can do it and you have to fuck them up real bad).

 

[KenjiGlove]

Speaking about romance, what did you guys think about the way you romance Naoto?

I'm pretty sure there were at least two conversation replies that you need to anwser correctly during the S.link to even get a chance for a relationship.

When I looked it up I found it to be pretty gimmicky compared to the rest of the cast, I think it resulted in my pairing up with no one in my P4 playthrough.

Which probably makes me the only person who didn't date anyone lol 😎

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Which probably makes me the only person whi didn't date anyone lol 😎

I did not date anyone on my first playthrough, which was intentional.

And yes, Naoto's route is gimmicky, but it represents the kinds of variations the S. Link system needs if they are going to keep the dating elements (which they most likely will). They would benefit from being less straightforward, and essentially just being tests of "pick the right answer to get more points."

 

[KenjiGlove]

I did not date anyone on my first playthrough, which was intentional.

And yes, Naoto's route is gimmicky, but it represents the kinds of variations the S. Link system needs if they are going to keep the dating elements (which they most likely will). They would benefit from being less straightforward, and essentially just being tests of "pick the right answer to get more points."

Yeah I agree. Just as a sidenote, I kinda dislike that she's the only one that has it. After doing the S.links of other girls I was under the impression that I could just pick at the last S.link. Kind of an odd deviaton from the norm. Especially since one of the choices was kinda arbitrary, just let me fight for my friends instead of protecting them! It's the same thing anyhow.

To get back on topic, I'm not super familair with other games that have the same talking mechanics but I think it would be kinda hard to avoid the whole "pick the right answer to get more points" in a game with dialouge options. Although I wouldn't mind them accepting the challenge and fleshing out the whole S.link system.

It would be nice if characters just referenced some of the more less important choices during a S.link at some later point IMO. That would make the choice a lot more meaningful and would give players another incentive to just pick the choice they want instead of the "best" response.

For example, if you make a Joke in S.link 2 your friend will talk about it in S.link 5.

But if you pick a more serious response in S.link 2 he'll have a different line in S.link 5

 

[Gecoma]

Just finished Platinuming Dancing All Night. I took like a full month break from it in January but the last 3 days I got back into it in a big way. I tried to not just triangle through the story

Spoiler

for about an hour

but I couldn't stand wasting 7 hours on a bad visual novel. Q & Arena didn't feel this bad.

Grinding money for the last few store items was surprisingly easy because of the 'The Mind's Eye' item trick (just sync up with at a YT video to see the invisible notes lol) so I just watched Yosuke dance to Your Affection 10 times on normal to end off my time with this game.

My favourite tracks were probably:

Spoiler

Best Friends (Banvox Remix), Pursuing My True Self (Shinichi Osawa Remix), Heartbeat Heartbreak (TOWA TEI remix).

Teddie & Chie definitely had the best song lineups. Also some of those DLC songs are a bit of a ripoff. It felt like they were about 30 seconds long.

 

[Lusankya]

And Social Links != Dating. One can engage in the Social Links of Persona 3 and Persona 4 without ever dating a single character.

Exactly. So why would you even want to remove the optional dating part? Just to spite people who like that feature?

 

[daevious]

Many games have realized the power of the dating simulator. Bioware, Fire Emblem, Persona, and probably others I can't remember.

There's a quote from one of the Persona 3 development blogs that's relevant to this discussion:

As a bit of a side note, one of the most unusual things I heard about from the staff when gathering their thoughts about this simulator was… well, how fun it suddenly was once a character became your lover! Even with no visuals to go along with the Social Link and nothing but dialog boxes to work off of, somehow that allure you feel around the opposite sex as a young adult like in the game still somehow came through! (Haha)

http://pepsimangb.tumblr.com/post/72047514576/katsura-hashino-on-developing-and-fine-tuning

 

[Funyarinpa]

You're playing P3 right now, right? In P3 there's actually quite a few ways to reverse or even totally break social links, but that mechanic was almost entirely removed in P4 (I think there's only two links where you can do it and you have to fuck them up real bad).

I meant a different structure for S. Links altogether, instead of 10 ranks there could a sort of "affinity" system that needs to be replenished often. Instead of wrong choices, not hanging out with a person for some time brings down this "affinity" (which measn stuff like stat bonuses, maybe something more?). It could be possible to introduce this "affinity" mechanic for poeple whose S. Links you have maxed instead of abolishing the 10 ranks, maybe.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Give me the dating sim, Atlus!

Speaking about romance, what did you guys think about the way you romance Naoto?

Interesting to know that there are gimmicks about her S. link. But I usually ship her with Kanji.. maybe next time when I plan to date everyone. lol

 

[Ludger Kresnik]

Anyone know if the persona 4 arena games' and Dancing all night stories are worth continuing this journey?

Play Ultimax if you want a fun fighting game, but it and Arena's stories are best left ignored because they are really really really bad. Dancing is a fun rhythm game, but its story is ultimately completely disposable.

Grinding money for the last few store items was surprisingly easy because of the 'The Mind's Eye' item trick (just sync up with at a YT video to see the invisible notes lol) so I just watched Yosuke dance to Your Affection 10 times on normal to end off my time with this game.

Just playing normally on All Night with one or two of the less invasive challenge items would've been a less boring way to do it, but whatever works tbh.

 

[Gecoma]

Anyone else think that Persona 4 Golden will be on the PS+ instant game collection in the leadup to Persona 5 release? Its one of the Vita's biggest games & heck Gravity Rush & Uncharted were free for over a year at one point.

Then again most PS+ games have a lot of DLC for players to buy. See Helldivers & even P4AU this month.

Just playing normally on All Night with one or two of the less invasive challenge items would've been a less boring way to do it, but whatever works tbh.

Yeah... I can't beat hard without making it easier using items. Rhythm games definitely not my thing.

 

[_Ryo_]

I believe that Persona 5's social links will be more than picking the correct line of dialogue in order to advanced. Why? If you look at the PVs you can see that everything is already much more interactive than before.

Spoilers from PVs:

The dungeons have platforming elements and puzzles.

The attribute system is more than "press x to advance" as you can see with the martial arts and the sports clip that they are actual mini games this time around.

The conversation system is more interactive with the integration on the phone and what not.

It stands to reason than social links will be more fleshed out as well.

What I imagine might happen is that once you meet some one you will form a bond,after that you may have chance encounters with this person that will allow you to raise the link based on your actions over time, or you can call them up yourself at anytime to hang out.

Ex. Do you call them often enough?
Do you pick your favorite thing to do over theirs all the time?
If you are playing a game together do you go easy on them,hard on them?
Do you genuinely share their interest?

Anyway, however they may implement it, I'm sure it will be much more interactive. It would be really weird seeing the fleshed out attributes, dungeons, conversations, games, etc and just leaving SL basically the same.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

They could fix that by having relationships you build be more integrated into the plot, so it affects dialogue and plot events outside the social link scenes. That way it would have more meaning and it wouldn't feel like it ends abruptly once you've maxed the link.

P4G kinda took some steps towards that. If you dated someone and maxed the link, there's still Christmas and Valentine's day scenes later. And if you

Spoiler

got Adachi's link to the right level, it opens up a new possible ending based on that relationship. Plus Marie's stuff.

Anyhow, I'm curious to see what changes they'll bring to the s-link system, seeing as they decided to rename it in Persona 5.

That'd be a nice step forward I guess.

Really the biggest issue is that in most every game, the function of the in-game relationship systems ends as soon as someone becomes your SO (or best friend). Integrating the relationship into plot and dialogue would be neat, but it'd be way better if we could have a situation where the relationship systems change/continue after a relationship starts.

Granted, like I said earlier, this will never happen because it's so much work, but still. Games reward you with some booty call at the end of your relationship system and then cut off. They cut off at arguably the hardest and most interesting part: maintaining a relationship! There's a wealth of interesting writing and routes to take once you get there.

There's a problem when freaking Harvest Moon is one of the only games that actually makes you maintain the relationship after some arbitrary booty call point.