CrimsonFist
Member
We went though the 5/5/15 expectation last year though, and nothing came of it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
We went though the 5/5/15 expectation last year though, and nothing came of it.
True, but I'd say May's the cutoff for summer announcements.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Persona anniversary is September 20th, but I might be wrong on the exact date.
Just kidding, nothing to see here folks.
That was actually a mistake. The survey actually just asks what fans think and expect of Persona 5, "with its release date approaching." Asking fans to guess the release date for P5 would be a pretty un-Atlus move, after all.
wikipedia says you are right about the date
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Ah, that makes a lot more sense. I thought it was a weird move, but I didn't see a retraction or anything (not that I really looked) so I just kinda went with it. Thanks.
properpropaganda
Member
So I am on floor 4 of the
dungeon in PQ and got to the
Group Date Cafe
Group Date event. Does Akihiko always lose no matter what option I pick or could I have dragged the event on longer?
Atlus actually had a trans npc in Persona 2:Innocent Sin. They were handled perfectly considering how little of a role they had. At least from what I remember. They were just one of many nameless npcs that stood around in shops that you could speak to throughout the story if you wanted. Most of the npcs had their own story of somesort if you took the time to talk to them that developed between story chunks etc. It's not really a spoiler, I think, just because of how minor a character she is. She really has no bearing on any plot wihatsoever and it just is a thing that is there. It actually works quite well with the game's overall theme revolving around rumors changing reality but it has no place within the general plot itself.
Not to mention Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment are the pinnacle of Persona anyway so
As a transwoman myself, regarding Catherine:
I feel like Erica is one of the most level-headed characters in the game, if not the most, and that is her one saving-grace. Upon the reveal that she is trans in the Katherine True Ending, Toby laments ever sleeping with her and that he wants his V card. He even brings up her deadname. The game is literally using a "he was tricked by a transwoman" joke here. And the game literally has another guy recording his shame. It feels as though we are meant to sympathize with Toby in this situation by the emphasis of the recording. The focus is on his shame more than anything else. And the one recording the incident in question more or less doesn't believe Erica to be a true woman either so the implications are a bit odd to say the least.
Even as a joke it falls completely flat because this whole idea that transwomen want to "trick" men into sleeping with them is just ridiculously insulting. It's a trite and repeated joke that is just incredibly tiring to see in popular media.
Not to mention the dudes all pretty much outright call her a dude at every angle and insist she's "not a real woman". Like the lines aren't subtle about this at all. They don't ever seem to really consider her for who she is and rather want to beat her down and make her recognize that in their eyes it doesn't matter if she feels she is a woman.
On top of this, Atlus themselves literally deadname her in the official artbook and refers to her as male. That's just adding insult to injury at this point and further leads me to the conclusion that the developers themselves have issues with transwomen and hence Erica's role in the story. Her one saving grace which makes me not go fully in on that is that she's probably the most level-headed in the game. But it's hard for me to consider that conclusion considering how the developers themselves treat her.
It's either an extremely bad joke that they don't mean to have come across the way it does and it just falls flat or they're being transphobic.
Even as a joke it falls completely flat because this whole idea that transwomen want to "trick" men into sleeping with them is just ridiculously insulting. It's a trite and repeated joke that is just incredibly tiring to see in popular media.
Not to mention the dudes all pretty much outright call her a dude at every angle and insist she's "not a real woman". Like the lines aren't subtle about this at all. They don't ever seem to really consider her for who she is and rather want to beat her down and make her recognize that in their eyes it doesn't matter if she feels she is a woman.
On top of this, Atlus themselves literally deadname her in the official artbook and refers to her as male. That's just adding insult to injury at this point and further leads me to the conclusion that the developers themselves have issues with transwomen and hence Erica's role in the story. Her one saving grace which makes me not go fully in on that is that she's probably the most level-headed in the game. But it's hard for me to consider that conclusion considering how the developers themselves treat her.
It's either an extremely bad joke that they don't mean to have come across the way it does and it just falls flat or they're being transphobic.
Suffice it to say, the newer Atlus team seems to have issues with women, transwomen, and gay men.
I hate Doucheke as others have mentioned (for being as misogynistic as he is, he literally never changes in the whole plot) and their portrayals of various characters like the one in Cahterine, Kanji, Naoto, etc. etc. are all problematic at best.
I miss old Atlus that was responsible for the P2 duology. : / They actually wrote complex characters that were far more than their potential stereotypes and the stereotypes themselves weren't offensive either. That's probably my biggest issue with modern day Atlus. They don't take the time to really develop things. Which is funny considering how much shorter the older games are and how they were in the end better developed. It makes these newer games feel elongated but lifeless in some respects. Particularly in P4 for me. Their whole approach to design is just really lacking. The ideas are there, potentially, but it's all muddled. I feel they go for the cheap knock-off filling rather than the luscious cream that could be waiting in the center.
Poll #013: Persona 5 in March 2016?
Interpret that how you will. 69% of the responders were right for Poll #012, there was no tease at the end of P3M#4.
Interpret that how you will. 69% of the responders were right for Poll #012, there was no tease at the end of P3M#4.
CrimsonFist
Member
I vote yes, but I chose to take the ambiguous wording to spin the slightest mention of P5 into a win.
Martylepiaf
Member
Since we have EO V I answered "no" and it hurts me
Yea, it's sweet, I like it.
That said, I really did not like Aigis at all and it's a bit stupid you have to do the rooftop scene with her on your first playthrough.
As others touched on the game handles it's themes pretty well too. Honestly P3 feels more cohesive to me than P4 in that regard. The plot also develops at a handy enough pace. That said the only version I care for of it is P3P but I already stressed why in the past.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Voted yes, if only because the wording is so ambiguous. Like others have said though, EOV announcement really has me wondering what's going to happen. Hashino's comments just last week had me feeling pretty confident, too.
They definitely have done this before and will end up doing it for P5/EOV regardless. The problem is that they announced EOV for an August release date. It would be slightly unusual for them to announce P5 for a date earlier than that.... but who knows, it could still happen. P5 is a special case in a lot of respects and we're already making a boatload of assumptions.
my guess is september for p5 after knowing about the anniversary
summer ends 22 september, persona 20 years anniversary is 20 september
it fits
Martylepiaf
Member
But they did say they want to do something else for the 20th anniversary
P5 would be a hell of a lead-in though.
Well, that's what they explicitly said. They said they've got a bunch of things planned regarding Persona in 2016 starting with Persona 5 in the summer. Both Hashino and Wada phrased it this way.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Makes me wonder how much of a gap they have planned. I would assume with a game as content heavy as P5 they'd probably want to leave some time for players to get through it before any kind of anniversary celebration.
Yeah, P5 in early September to kick things off, then lead up to the anniversary at the end of the month.
I dunno, that doesn't seem like enough time to me. They've hinted that they've got another Persona game they want to announce this year, and they'd likely announce it in conjunction with the 20th anniversary festival. That festival will probably take place in September. Then there's also the Persona 5 anime that's going to happen at some point.
I think P5 needs room to breathe before they go all "Persona anniversary" mode, like they've said, so I feel like having it release weeks before it would happen would be weird. Then again, that assumes that it actually happens in September.
CrimsonFist
Member
I think the anime will be a promotional tool for the game though, so there's a good chance that will be out first.
Funyarinpa
Member
*aaaaarrrrrrhhhHHHHEM* Definitive Persona 3 on Vita *aaaaarrrrrrhhhHHHHEM*
Yeah, that's part of why I think P5 would have its own space in the schedule instead of all the Persona stuff being crammed together. It needs its own time to breathe before and after release, though I've become less certain that the anime broadcast will necessarily precede the game's release.
Hopefully localization doesn't take too long. If they really are just working out bugs and polishing it to make sure everything runs well, hopefully the script's already being translated, and the devs over in Japan who don't have as much to do in this phase can help with editing graphic text and whatever else they may need to do.
CrimsonFist
Member
A VO appearance in next month's Stalker Club counts as "Persona 5"
My avatar fills me with joy and shame at the same time. It's pretty amazing.
Funyarinpa
Member
Burn My Dread is SO GODDAMN AMAZING
I love all versions, but the entry of the chorus during the original version just KILLS me. So powerful.
just wanted to agree with all the posts above that Atlus has an issue writing characters dealing with a crisis of sexuality/gender. I beat Catherine and never even knew Erica
Yosuke's treatment of Kanji was similar, I thought. It's okay if you want to make a character unlikable by giving them homophobic/transphobic traits, but that's clearly not what they were going for with Yosuke. They just thought it was funny. I hope Atlus can avoid these pitfalls with P5 and actually write complex characters.
was transgender. She was my favorite character in that game and to have the other characters treat her like that after the reveal is just depressing.
Funyarinpa
Member
I still liked Yosuke in a way somehow despite him being so goddamn homophobic. I guess it just goes to show that even horrible people have some good sides.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Opinion question: For the people with strong opinions on Yosuke, where would you put him on this (very) rudimentary scale?
For the sake of simplicity, I mean just Yosuke as a person. So complaints about how the MC can't challenge his views shouldn't really factor in, as that's a different issue entirely.
- Bad person
- Bad person with good traits
- Good person with bad traits
- Good person
For the sake of simplicity, I mean just Yosuke as a person. So complaints about how the MC can't challenge his views shouldn't really factor in, as that's a different issue entirely.
3. Good person with bad traits. I've unfortunately known a lot of people that fall into that category where they have awful opinions about politics and other issues in the world, but a lot of times it comes down to growing up and being surrounded by the same opinions. In order for people to change and get good values, they have to be exposed to them.
To bring it more back to Yosuke, it takes work to say that a person who ultimately risks his life on a regular basis to save people even if it's partly due to the excitement of it is a bad person unless they get something out of it. Yosuke never seemed to do the whole saving people part either purely out of feeling like a hero like Junpei did either.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I suppose I'd have to go with 3. He's not a bad person, really, but a fucking annoying, selfish, and inconsiderate one with seemingly no control of the endless flow of stupid shit streaming out of his mouth. He's definitely the most flawed person out of the whole IT, though those flaws are rarely actually used to give him depth. Most of his SL is just you enabling his weird behaviour and thoughts to an almost P3-esque degree. But to give Yosuke some credit, he is better than P3's worst SLs.
5) None of the above.
Yosuke is just your average insecure teenager.
Which would be perfectly fine on its own. After all, his actions are fairly in line with how your typical insecure teenage boy would act in high school. But here's the rub; his jabs towards Kanji in Persona 4 are framed in a "boys will be boys" light, rather than as something more serious. Which makes sense, given how marginalized homosexuality is in Japan. Really, Yosuke's behavior towards Kanji is just a product of that, rather than the developers intentionally making him homophobic. Which is very unfortunate, I don't think it precludes him from being a good character.
At least Junpei was a more nuanced character. He actually developed past his stereotype, especially regarding his own sexism with FeMC. It took forever but Junpei ended up being way less one note than Yosuke was. If we're discussing just the "Bro" characters of P3 and P4, Junpei is miles ahead of Yosuke in writing for me. Factor in the bro from P2 and Eikichi beats em' both by miles and miles. : p
To answer the poll, I lean more towards 1 just because I really can't stand the guy at all but I guess I can see 3.
Regarding Catherine:
Well, it's how they treat Erica even way before the explicit reveal too. Her response when it's blatant is just to tell him you can't return this punched card and laugh. So they don't really let her say much in regards to his feeling of being tricked by her but given how the game treated her up til that point, I'm not surprised that she didn't really have much of a say on things. Catherine wasn't trying to say anything complex about transgender issues and mostly stuck to myopic 'jokes'. That said, I suppose you could take it as 'they're all constantly ribbing each other' but it still feels off to me.
Again, that combined with the devs themselves literally dead-naming her and referring to her as male in the official artbook just adds to the issue for me.
Again, that combined with the devs themselves literally dead-naming her and referring to her as male in the official artbook just adds to the issue for me.
A Dead Diehard
Member
3. That goes for Chie too.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I consider the bolded more an issue of how Yosuke is portrayed, rather than an issue of his character. Would you agree?
Definitely
I can see that argument.