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Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
I'd definitely doubt that we'd never see him again, exactly for the reasons you stated. Hell, like Setsu I'm not even adverse to the idea of him possibly appearing in P5, though I heavily doubt it.
I do think that, if there's another Arena (which there definitely will be some time in the future, no doubts about it.) he'd obviously be a part of it, just as much as I think Labrys would probably be a part of it, even if the two have slightly less focus in the possible plot than in their debut games.
I also don't really think "hate" over the character is really an impacting factor over their inclusion in Persona. If anything, the more people seem to "hate" a character initially, the more they seemed to have worked on them to get them to be more likable; People actually genuinely like/don't hate Marie now after Persona Q, and even Labrys was fairly divisive (though not to the extent of Marie and Sho) to some until people saw her end story in Arena/Ultimax.
I already am one of the people that didn't really didn't have problems with Sho (they portrayed as an edgy deranged asshat with obvious problems, and in the story they give a pretty good reason for why he has his problems, puns withstanding) and I think that, if they give him more time to shine after Ultimax he'd probably be a pretty enjoyable character.
The only characters that I'd think would clearly be a one-and-done are Rei and Zen
(though Chronos may at the least be mentioned some time in the future...)
...Though they might appear if they actually made P3D...
Think about it from a developers perspective.
Think about how his design, character and backstory completely clashes with P5.
Think about what it would mean to include him in a game like P5.
Think about how Persona 5 is easily P-studio's most ambitious game to date, and how bad it would look if they fell back on a character like Sho.
I said this before during the "Sho 4 P5" debacle, but he's got close to a 0% chance of ever being in P5. It just won't wash.
CrimsonFist
Member
Sho DLC, play as Sho's side of the story as it turns out he was present the entire time observing the events of Persona 5.
Auron_Kale
Member
Looks pretty good actually.
In for the Junes shirt, Yasogami hoodie and the Kanji shirt.
A Dead Diehard
Member
TheMrPliskin
Member
It should just be a what if scenario where he manages to max every social link and defeat the final boss on the first day.
Spectrasonic
Member
Wait... Sho isn't the P5 protagonist?????
Aadrian1234
Banned
What? P3 first, P4A and P4AU are both part of P3's timeline, no sense in backtracking along P3's timeline.
I'm not saying P1 and P2 are bad games, but it would be a bad idea to have them go from P4 to P2. To someone who has only played P4, P2 can definitely turn them off since P3 is when the biggest changes in the series occurred to make it what it is today
If you've started with Persona 4, it is only logical to play Persona 3 (FES or Portable) next as it is the same engine, relatively same gameplay, and similar story structure.
After which, you may wish to try Persona 1 or Persona 2, but they're fairly different in structure. You could also go to Persona Q or the Arena games upon finishing Persona 3 and Persona 4.
Ignore any advice that suggests jumping to the Arena games without having finished both Persona 3 or Persona 4. It is wrong, as Arena spoils both Persona 3 and 4 outright.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Or just forgo Ultimax altogether and get Q instead? :/
Aadrian1234
Banned
Ultimax isn't nearly as bad as everyone around here loves to paint it
Aadrian1234
Banned
And that's fine if you like it. But it's very... silly, I guess? And most Persona fans don't like it because of that.
I feel like this sums up every single Persona spinoff. All of them are pretty great games in their respective genres, but all of them delve into borderline bad-fanfiction tier writing.
It's to be expected: you have to take these dynamic characters out of their arcs and put them into stories where they are largely static. In order to offset this, the writers have to introduce other characters (Labrys, Sho, Rei, Zen) that can in fact have an arc so that there's some semblance of growth and story progression. Add in the fact that these are not the original writers and you have a recipe for something that doesn't quite feel right.
The irony is that usually those individual character arcs for the new characters are often pretty alright. I haven't played Sho's so I can't comment, but I enjoyed the stories for Rei, Zen, and Labrys.
All that aside, they're harmless and often enjoyable fan-service, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing given that the games themselves are well made.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Nonono.
King's Game
Kanji spending the entire first Arena game thinking he's dreaming
Yukari and Rise causing the pacing to grind to a halt so they can fawn over how pretty they think the other is
That was just... wasteful.
OH! I get it!
Cause that actually happened!
ugh...
In regards to Ultimax,
This is, ultimately what happens when you call your game Persona 4 Arena, and in reality it has very little to actually do with Persona 4 itself. It'd be like if you had a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles story, and it was set in Manhatton, but the turtles were just supporting characters for the Power Rangers. >_>;
The writers didn't really seem like they knew where they wanted to go with the cast of characters for Persona 4. In the case of Persona Q, it's obvious that there isn't going to be much development there because it takes place mid story for both games. But in the case of Arena and Ultimax, the Persona 4 cast largely start and end in the exact same spot they did before. The only exception to this rule was Rise. It's a problem that also noticeably doesn't plague the P3 cast that much. Aigis
Mitsuru
Akihiko
The same could be applied to Ken, Junpei, and Yukari to a degree.
But not the Persona 4 cast. They're still mostly "those kids from Inaba", and almost nothing has happened to them. Except Rise, who only got character development because she basically had her own spinoff coming.
Kagutsuchi is probably one of the worst aspect of it. Sho/Minazuki is a bit annoying, but he has a decent story arc. Kagutsuchi, on the other hand, shows up at the last second, repeats a rhetoric that's already been done three times before him, has no purpose in the story except to loosely link it to Persona 4, and is a generic ripoff of an already superior antagonist in the same franchise.
This is, ultimately what happens when you call your game Persona 4 Arena, and in reality it has very little to actually do with Persona 4 itself. It'd be like if you had a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles story, and it was set in Manhatton, but the turtles were just supporting characters for the Power Rangers. >_>;
The writers didn't really seem like they knew where they wanted to go with the cast of characters for Persona 4. In the case of Persona Q, it's obvious that there isn't going to be much development there because it takes place mid story for both games. But in the case of Arena and Ultimax, the Persona 4 cast largely start and end in the exact same spot they did before. The only exception to this rule was Rise. It's a problem that also noticeably doesn't plague the P3 cast that much. Aigis
meets her sister, finally finds someone she can call family, and finds out her origins in the Arena games.
starts an organization with the full intent of protecting Japan and the world.
finally finds a purpose in his life again after losing Shinjiro.
But not the Persona 4 cast. They're still mostly "those kids from Inaba", and almost nothing has happened to them. Except Rise, who only got character development because she basically had her own spinoff coming.
Yeah. I haven't played much of Arena (mostly just played multiplayer with my friend), but I went through some of Yukiko's story, and it mostly seemed like reading fanfiction online since even most visual novels I played seemed to have more actual talking to other characters rather than just 90% of the dialogue being in their heads.
Spectrasonic
Member
Yup, I didn't like how the story was practically made to fool you into thinking it was about
reviving P3 protag
Why did Tartarus reappear, but this time at Yasogami High?
Just cuz
Just cuz
Just cuz
This was so hilarious. Maybe Soejima didn't realize how similar they look in that artwork.
A Dead Diehard
Member
imo, the best story modes are Labrys and Teddie.
Yukiko's suffers from the tired "lol, girl cant cook good" running gag being its backbone. Poor girl.
Nah, it's cause
he was there, Austin! He was there ALLLL ALOOOOONG, Austin!
son of a bitch...
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I like to pretend The Ultimate in Bad Fanfic Arena never happened. Labrys was good, but that's literally it.
And pass up on the stellar gameplay and new characters?
Just don't go into the game expecting a remotely decent story and you'll have a yourself a very good time.
Pretty sure it's basically because that's how Soejima draws characters with a cocky grin.
A lot of the character that comes across in the Phantom's expressions is very similar to Sho's character.
It probably doesn't help that he will have likely been designing both characters at the same time, and that picture of Phantom was probably also semi-rushed, considering how unimportant an image it is/was.
This is actually all explained, although not very well. ARENA/UTLIMAX SPOILER TIME:
The Kirijo Group had a way to create an artificial dark hour. This was first mentioned in the Persona 3 drama CDs. They also had a way to enter via rings as well. You see this at the start of Mitsuru's story mode in the first Arena game. Sho Minazuki basically stole this technology. Tartarus itself is a beacon for shadows, and naturally manifests in the Dark Hour as a means of gathering shadows. Kagutsuchi thus used Tartarus to gather in Shadows to serve as the basis for his body. Seeing as Sho/Minazuki was a student of Yasogami High and the casts only run into him once they get near the school, it is implied he employed the technology to recreate the Dark Hour at the school. Thus spawning Tartarus there. The only time he is not seen near the school is when Minazuki attempts to eliminate Naoto early on.
These are the parts of the story which I dislike. It's all so videogamey and bleh.
Videogames are the worst when they get bogged down in explaining their lore.
Spectrasonic
Member
Oh, oops. I admit I didn't pay very good attention to Arena storyline.
I would actually argue the story is worse because they did such a poor job explaining all this. A lot of the details rely under the assumption that the player has a) played Persona 3 and remembers everything from it and b) played the right story modes in Arena, despite the fact that the story can be completed without ever playing these story modes.
None of these details are really because it's "videogamey", and they'd exist regardless of the format.
Don't feel bad. All of this was very easily missed.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
All the important stuff is buried beneath inane chatter and padding, it's cool.
Technically almost all the details are there in the game itself, but it does help to listen to the four canonical Persona 3 drama CDs (Daylight, Moonlight, New Moon, Full Moon) to understand where a lot of the elements came from. Kikuno Saikawa. for example, debuted in New Moon and she plays a very important role in both it and Full Moon. Ken actually references the events of the drama CDs early on in the P3 storyline.
Related, but there's like 16 or 17 drama CDs for Persona 3 in Japan. Only the above four are canonical, however.
Was this posted yet? Insert Coin has shown some of their clothing designs for P4.
I hope no one likes those leggings btw
I hope no one likes those leggings btw
Wasn't Ultimax written in like a mad panic during a time of upheaval by eight newbies? I figure everyone was told which bit of the script to write and then they just stitched it up and didn't edit it all through to make it coherent.
There's a lot of ideas in that game that are really cool but just badly handled.
There's a lot of ideas in that game that are really cool but just badly handled.
A Dead Diehard
Member
I can hardly blame you. Aside from it making Metal Gear look like a form of limericks, there was a steady stream of moments where my thoughts were a constant stream of "QUIET PLEASE MAKE IT STOP".
Dragon1893
Member
To say that you're reaching with the arguments you're using is putting it mildly. There's absolutely no logical reason to assume this will happen.
It's a typical situation of people over-analizing things when they spend too much time waiting for something.
P5 is its own thing, it's a fresh slate, I think that's pretty obvious.
Even if there's a small cameo just for fan-service, I'd like to think Sho would be the last character on the list. What amazes me is that people defending this are actually saying he has a relevant role. That would be so fucking lame and lazy that I'm actually disappointed that people hold Atlus and the Persona Team to such a low standard.
This is Persona 5 we're talking about here. It will feel fresh and new and be Atlus' biggest game ever and it wont do those things by recycling material from a friggin' spin-off of the previous entry.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
As much as I like Sho
, I'd be okay with him never Shoing up again.
But I still think he Shold've at least been DLC in P4D. I want him to Sho me his moves.
's design and what his character could have been if his game was competently written
But I still think he Shold've at least been DLC in P4D. I want him to Sho me his moves.
KenjiGlove
Banned
^
Now you're just Shoboating.
Now you're just Shoboating.
BRSxIgnition
Member
What it all comes down to is that Sho is bad, and we should never talk about him again...
... Ever.
Not even in puns.
... Ever.
Not even in puns.
NOT EVEN IN PUNS.
I'm not going to say that my reasoning is perfect, but taking a bunch of visual clues (Sho's red theme and his Persona) and explaining that Sho's story feels like the set up for something bigger
by giving him one of the defining traits of the protagonists of modern Persona (the Wild Card)
BRSxIgnition
Member
Just because they gave him the beginnings of a new adventure in what is the most badly written entry in the series thus far doesn't mean he should be the protagonist of the next entry.
In fact, it's more than enough case for Atlus to abandon his storyline altogether. Because it was really, really, really bad.
Now can we please stop talking about Sho?
Pretty please?
Reanimatoin
Member
Sho's not going to be in P5, we can stop this conversation before my brain melts.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Ludger Kresnik
Member
Give him a spinoff. Something to keep their C team busy, like a dressup sim or a virtual pet. Your very own Sho to love and care for.
I think this discussion has more or less devolved into reasoning why it makes (no) sense for him to appear in P5. I don't think anyone here legitimately believes that Sho will be in P5, even though I am the one arguing why it wouldn't be that farfetched.
B-bu-but it's canon!