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Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
ShadowSoldier89
Member
thats kindve how I read it too. I wouldnt care as as you said they always felt half baked, though if they were handled better I did like the idea from a roleplaying aspect of dating someone who isn't caught up in the same insanity as you, like escapism dating
Nothing would be more heartbreaking and make you feel like a piece of "Yosuke" than the P4 Valentine scene.... nothing
Unless you have to choose save one of your lovers in a death / danger scene
i hope not
Im with DNAbro i not care about the gay / no gay relationship argument but they way that sound seems you can actually date all of them ... even the cat lol.
CrimsonFist
Member
That comment wouldn't exclude the possibility of relationships with non-party members.
And I wouldn't read too much into the exact wording of translated interviews.
And I wouldn't read too much into the exact wording of translated interviews.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Valentine's day was written incredibly well, and added in nicely as a bonus day in golden covering something completely missed in vanilla, however with P5 I'd like to see more organic consequences to actions in social links, rather than dropping them in an obvious day
This could extend far beyond romance missteps too to other effects of your choices within the cooperations, though that might be asking for a bit much. Blending in the romances better and adding better consequences to them alone would probably be a ton of work
true, its just how I read it though. However if they do have non party member dating, isnt Hifumi the only real option anyway, unless they add gay options or older women options
There are only like 2 non-party Co-Ops that are around your age so it would make sense I guess.
VALID POINT.
My concern remains - as it always has - that the game will be too silly. The idea of S Links revolving around the thieves plays into that exact feeling. I don't want to be the center of the universe. I don't want Japan to revolve around me. I don't want the issues that the S Links go through have anything to do with this dumb heist.
Hashino said in the new Famitsu that they've focused in on the main story this time. This is not something that I want.
Are you telling i cant date the teacher / maid / lets you to skip school/ best lady so far waifu.....
My dreams man
-----
I was hoping for Sae been a Co-op in some point but made that would be too much spoiler i guess and not sense since she is basically an antagonist
so far
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I am curious about how they will play it out. If that is the case I don't think I will dislike it, but I do believe it would be impossible for me to enjoy it as much as P4s. That separation of daily life and the investigation was so enjoyable.
Even with your party members you barely ever worried about the midnight channel during the Slinks, it was worrying about life. Either way I think it will be fine, even if they go a route I know can't be as good for me
A Dead Diehard
Member
When you put it like that, it sounds kind of self-serving...
ShadowSoldier89
Member
yea thats basically how I imagined the non party member dates in P4
Maybe to you , but for me i always hate that from Social Links , how it feels be set in a diferent world beside the main story.
If this new coop o social links would be affect the story in some way more than unlock some battle / game benefits i would very pleased.
But then again i not hope more to be exact like P3 and P4 with the MC be the center of the universe and 0 impact in the story game and other characters.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I just like that duality of trying to live your life while also dealing with something much bigger
Granted at the same time P5 changing things up like this (stil speculation of course) isn't really a bad thing in my book anyway. I may not believe I can enjoy it as much as the P4 approach, it does allow P5 to be its own game while still being persona. I think thats important, the game is clearly still in the vein of P3 and P4 which is the most important thing to me, but its also separating itself
I might be misunderstanding what you mean, but the P5 protag seems way more like the center of the universe than the P3 and P4 protags.
It seems like literally everything revolvs around the Phantom Thieves.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
fine by me.
Well if the enemy is society and corruption I would expect for them to make a bigger name for themselves. I think it makes sense for the story they are telling for them to be important and for everything to revolve around them. At least from what I'm getting so far.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Well, think about it. In the previous games, what's interfering in the status quo?
P3? It's the Dark Hour and Apathy Syndrome.
P4? The murders and the fog.
P5? The status quo is what's wrong, which is why the Phantom Thieves are interfering. They're the ones making ripples so of course they get more attention than the casts who were working in secret.
It doesn't make them any more special than SEES or the IT. They just get more credit.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I think what he meant was how important the MC himself is to other characters, not the alter ego of the phantom thieves. I think there's a significant difference between the two, especially if not all of the co-op characters know that the MC is a phantom thief.
Hmmm. Let's take a look at some of the themes of P5 revealed so far.
CAUTION: SPOILERS REGARDING STORY
And these don't include the themes that CO-OP characters portray. So, yeah I think Persona 5 is going to be a pretty mature, and dark game with a "vocal minority" of silly moments.
CAUTION: SPOILERS REGARDING STORY
• Themes of attempted rape.
• Sexual molestation.
• Being punished for doing the right thing. (Being arrested for stopping a bastard from raping a woman.)
• Being stalked and harassed.
• The pressure that society puts on youth to carry everything on their shoulders
• Murder
• Changing someones heart/mind against their will.
• Reforming yourself so you'll fit into the status quo
• Existential Crisis
• Forgiveness (Penance)
• Looking under ones facade to see their nasty hidden desires
• A immoral criminal justice system (The police beating up MC.)
• Being jailed.
• Greed
• Altruism
• Theft
• Vigilantism
• Sexual molestation.
• Being punished for doing the right thing. (Being arrested for stopping a bastard from raping a woman.)
• Being stalked and harassed.
• The pressure that society puts on youth to carry everything on their shoulders
• Murder
• Changing someones heart/mind against their will.
• Reforming yourself so you'll fit into the status quo
• Existential Crisis
• Forgiveness (Penance)
• Looking under ones facade to see their nasty hidden desires
• A immoral criminal justice system (The police beating up MC.)
• Being jailed.
• Greed
• Altruism
• Theft
• Vigilantism
And these don't include the themes that CO-OP characters portray. So, yeah I think Persona 5 is going to be a pretty mature, and dark game with a "vocal minority" of silly moments.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Woah. It's confirmed that was what he was stopping? I thought it was going to be physical abuse, but DAMN. o_o
I mean, listing events in such a broad sense is even more meaningless than my own speculation. There are ton of films that cover similar horror films and the like that feature high levels of physical and sexual violence that probably wouldn't be considered 'mature' by most reasonable people.
Context is everything, and in visual media the depiction is what matters the most. Anne's story, for example, might be
but it takes the form of a man dressed up as a king in a banana hammock. You talk about the small light hearted scenes, but virtually every scene we've seen has some degree of levity and wackiness to it. It permeates through everything, right down to the character designs and the HUD.
I think you need some degree of realism to a scene for it to be serious and meaningful, and I'm not sure Persona 5 will deliver on that front. For example, any scene that tries to convey a sense of emotion whilst the characters are in their thief outfits is at a disadvantage by default because of the outfits. Adding onto that the fact that masks dehumanise characters as it is, and the bar is set high before any context is even added.
Context is everything, and in visual media the depiction is what matters the most. Anne's story, for example, might be
about a stalker,
I think you need some degree of realism to a scene for it to be serious and meaningful, and I'm not sure Persona 5 will deliver on that front. For example, any scene that tries to convey a sense of emotion whilst the characters are in their thief outfits is at a disadvantage by default because of the outfits. Adding onto that the fact that masks dehumanise characters as it is, and the bar is set high before any context is even added.
Dunno if it's confirmed, confirmed, but that's the impression I got. Sounded like the guy was moaning, so I don't know.
Sorry but I can't agree with this,
I don't really find the man dressed up as a king in a banana hammock as 100% silly, I mean on the face of it, and just seeing it, it most definitely would be but because as you just said, context is everything. It's meant to show the perversity of his obsession with Anne, distorted his mind has become. I think it's really disingenuous to just say that everything that isn't readily "normal" on its face is silly.
And I especially disagree that the masks dehumanize the characters. Instead it gives me the impression that behind their masks they can be who they truly are, without having to face the negative aspects of embracing individualism in Japan, where as soon as their interests and beliefs exit out of the status-qua, they're deemed as outsiders and recluses, and their masks/suits then empower them and the public to accept that being different is not always a bad thing. And that to me symbolizes just how human they truly are, and makes me emphasize with them more deeply.
Abnormal isn't necessarily silly, you're right.
A man flying onto the screen wearing nothing but a crown, a cape and thong, however, is silly. There's no way to spin it in a serious way.
And masks dehumanise characters because they obscure their facial expressions. There might be a contextual reason for it, but it's still the truth. That's part of why characters like Master Chief are crap characters.
A man flying onto the screen wearing nothing but a crown, a cape and thong, however, is silly. There's no way to spin it in a serious way.
And masks dehumanise characters because they obscure their facial expressions. There might be a contextual reason for it, but it's still the truth. That's part of why characters like Master Chief are crap characters.
Maybe it's because I grew up with superhero stories, but I'm having a hard time imagining how the costumes could get in the way of serious moments. Also, I feel like the masks let us see enough of the character's eyes that it wont get in the way of them showing their emotions.
Sure there is. It's called "creepy"
I mean, kind of?
But that's still comedically creepy, right?
I absolutely feel like the superhero costumes put them at a disadvantage relative to normally dressed human beings.
Without full context from the scene, we cannot say.
What we saw in the trailers looks more like "ew, that'disgusting" kind of creepy tho. At least to me.
I agree with this. And again, from everything we've seen I still hold the opinion that most of it has not been silly. Take the entire prologue for instance, what was silly in that? What's silly about
A heist gone wrong, being caught by police, beaten up, drugged, and the criminal justice system trying to deny you your rights. (telling sae that she can't see her client at first, and then only for a short time.), well, jumping out of that window and living was extremely silly... so there is that.
Or
a gun enthusiast wanting to take his activities to another level and to live vicariously through a youthful man that may look up to him? It's kind of creepy, but in a totally different way than the banana hammock.
or what's silly about a
politician that has fallen from grace and has to face the burden of his mistakes, despite actually caring about the future of the current generation?
To be sure, I'm not saying there aren't silly moments, or that they're not a lot, but I think that the silly moments stand out more because of just how much they look displaced in contrast to the more mature moments. But really, that's just personally how I feel as it's my interpretation and opinion, and in the end it's probably entirely subjective.
Then I guess there's not much else I can say on that, we just have two very different, subjective views on this. :/
Though I still feel the Master Chief comparison doesn't work, what I've seen of the trailers shows me that Atlus is making sure the masks do not get in the way of the characters being able to express themselves. There's plenty of space to let the eyes show off any emotion and the mouths can generally be seen as well, that's far different from a reflective space helmet and I don't think it will dehumanize them.
I'm somewhere in-between on the whole argument. If you're expecting a really deep, dark game that explores some extremely touchy subjects with the serious attention they deserve... you haven't really been playing the right series to begin with. The series is known for its more touching moments, but I wouldn't really go any farther than saying it has had some down to earth writing P5 looks no different in that regard, and like Dantis says, this one seems to be even crazier. The lines between the supernatural feats you're performing and the "normal world" are even more blurred than ever in this once, given that you yourself are a popular subject with immediate feedback in the real world. Not sure how that's going to feel or play out.
But on the other hand, I really do like the themes of pushing back against corrupt systems, even if that's a bit on the nose compared to 3's "People Die" and 4's "Appearances are Deceiving". I also think that you CAN balance silliness with complex subjects, and the two extremes can even sometimes provide needed contrast. The social links look pretty cool and somewhat down to earth, so I think there will be a lot of the moments people are looking for there. I dunno, we'll see where it goes, but I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. 3 and 4 weren't particularly deep games, but they explored some cool concepts and had some relatively down to earth conversations.
I also genuinely enjoy the thief motif, with all of the stylish flair that affords. I know that's kind of the stretching point for a lot of people, but the reason I liked P3/4 wasn't necessarily that they had down to earth stuff, but that they were so wildly different than anything I had ever played before. But if you look around, RPG's have taken a lot from persona. Social links, school settings, even the concept of jumping into people's minds has been taken and been done elsewhere. The crazy, zany thief stuff, to me, is what differentiates this game from everything else out there. I've wanted a game like that for so long, and it seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from other things I like (Book Lupin, Anime Lupin, Dumas, etc.). The added bonus is that, to counterbalance the crazy thief stuff, there's also going to be the down to earth, character focused moments that the Persona series is known for. For me, it's the best of both worlds, and I think they can pull off the contrast.
But on the other hand, I really do like the themes of pushing back against corrupt systems, even if that's a bit on the nose compared to 3's "People Die" and 4's "Appearances are Deceiving". I also think that you CAN balance silliness with complex subjects, and the two extremes can even sometimes provide needed contrast. The social links look pretty cool and somewhat down to earth, so I think there will be a lot of the moments people are looking for there. I dunno, we'll see where it goes, but I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. 3 and 4 weren't particularly deep games, but they explored some cool concepts and had some relatively down to earth conversations.
I also genuinely enjoy the thief motif, with all of the stylish flair that affords. I know that's kind of the stretching point for a lot of people, but the reason I liked P3/4 wasn't necessarily that they had down to earth stuff, but that they were so wildly different than anything I had ever played before. But if you look around, RPG's have taken a lot from persona. Social links, school settings, even the concept of jumping into people's minds has been taken and been done elsewhere. The crazy, zany thief stuff, to me, is what differentiates this game from everything else out there. I've wanted a game like that for so long, and it seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from other things I like (Book Lupin, Anime Lupin, Dumas, etc.). The added bonus is that, to counterbalance the crazy thief stuff, there's also going to be the down to earth, character focused moments that the Persona series is known for. For me, it's the best of both worlds, and I think they can pull off the contrast.
Depth in plot? Not at all. But I will say that they truly do commit to their themes and motifs, and constantly re-focus the characters towards those themes. I think they also "know" that they're dealing more with metaphorical themes than acutal pseudo-complex themes like the "existence of god" or "the effects of time travel" or the weird sci-fi bullshit you see in a lot of games people claim as "deep". I much prefer smaller meditations on some Jungian concepts and a simple look at what people keep hidden from the public. To me, plot can never really be that "deep". People are deep.
A Dead Diehard
Member
You can see the thieves' expressions through the masks to a degree.
Also, Master Chief has a backstory for those that care and want more than a glorified action figure.
More depth in characterization than plot, yeah. But then again, the very nature of the series is character focused.
You rarely see some of the character writing that Persona has in other games. (Spoilers for all games)
Other RPGs would barely focus on the subplots about what it means to be human (Aigis/Teddie), what someone is living for (most of the P3 cast), the nature of suicide as a solution to one's problems (Ken), living with one's regrets and past mistakes (the P2 cast) and such
It's a nice, refreshing change. I appreciate it for that. I don't think Persona 5's gonna be particularly different in this regard either.
While I've avoided seeing most of them, I have to say that the small bits of the new social links (co-operations!) that I have seen have pretty much alleviated any worries that I would have had. The stuff I want out of persona is definitely in there and a lot of it looks better than ever.
Well at least I won't have to look at man-ass when I play it then.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I think the cape would've covered the ass either way.
SpaceBridge
Member
Thinking about playing P3P female protagonist route though. I played and beat P3FES a few years ago, but hype for P5 has me wanting to play a Persona game.
Does the female route really provide a fresh gaming experience?
For the record I've also played and beaten P4 and P4G and got 60 hours into PQ.
Does the female route really provide a fresh gaming experience?
For the record I've also played and beaten P4 and P4G and got 60 hours into PQ.
CrimsonFist
Member
Female route changes a few scenes, adds quite a few entirely new social links, and changes some of the soundtrack. The overall story and mechanics are the same, although if you played FES before, P3P makes some changes there too, such as adding direct party control. It's not a completely different game or anything, but there's still quite a bit new.
CrimsonFist
Member
Read something interesting regarding the Fool co-op apparently from the store demo. Might not be entirely correct but:
Apparently the menu screen for the Fool co-op shows the MC and Igor.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
Now that would be an interesting Social Link.
If I remember right, it was stated there's a reason why Igor sounds more sinister in this game.
A Dead Diehard
Member
woah interesting
They're using a specific Tarot deck, Tarot de Marseille, so it's
XXI. Le Monde (The World)
The last one is probably Le Mat (The Fool), as it is not numbered and is typically last.
Putyouinmyoven
Member
This might interest some of you, I'm in japan right now and I keep seeing these displays in game stores. Game looks amazing.
