A Dead Diehard
Member
He does kind of leer at Haru when she gets introduced at Shujin. Not much, but can be considered.
Also him hearing about Hifumi gets him keen iirc.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona Community Thread |OT9| SPOILER TAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
He does kind of leer at Haru when she gets introduced at Shujin. Not much, but can be considered.
Also him hearing about Hifumi gets him keen iirc.
I don't want to go into "boys will be boys" territory with him because it's faulty reasoning, and I don't to write off Ryuji's perversions as harmless either (it's wrong of the game to characterize them as such), but he's ultimately characterized in such a sincere and honest way, it's hard to look at Ryuji and write him off as some sexist thug. He's still a dumb 16 year old, and I don't think that fact is being considered enough. I'm not saying I was making grabby hands towards women when I was younger, but I sure as shit didn't treat them with as much respect as I should have at that age, so Ryuji's lack of tack is absolutely understandable. And that doesn't even cover how is he's like 90% of the time, in which he treats the women in his group with respect, or in some cases, is the only one willing to actually help or understand them when everyone else is too self-absorbed to do so.
Which isn't to say he's owed respect for doing that either (I mean come on, that's basic fucking decency), but Ryuji is a lot more pure than say... Yosuke or even Junpei, who were typically 100% motivated by selfish desires when it came to helping women. And none of what he's done is at all comparable to say... blackmailing your friends into wearing a bikini (which is fucked up, any way you slice it).
To put it another way; Ann enjoys being around Ryuji and vice versa. Their relationship is fairly healthy for the most part, and you'd be hard pressed to argue that Ryuji is constantly being sexist towards her.
Which isn't to say he's owed respect for doing that either (I mean come on, that's basic fucking decency), but Ryuji is a lot more pure than say... Yosuke or even Junpei, who were typically 100% motivated by selfish desires when it came to helping women. And none of what he's done is at all comparable to say... blackmailing your friends into wearing a bikini (which is fucked up, any way you slice it).
To put it another way; Ann enjoys being around Ryuji and vice versa. Their relationship is fairly healthy for the most part, and you'd be hard pressed to argue that Ryuji is constantly being sexist towards her.
He's generally better than Morgana's one-sided "nice guy" pining for Ann.
Real talk: What Yosuke did there would basically be sexual harassment in real life. It also doesn't really make any sense, given the sizing requirements of a bikini either.
The only redeeming part to this scene is him getting the comeuppance he deserve, and even then he dragged two other people into it. >_>
A Dead Diehard
Member
I really hate that term, but he really does check all the boxes for that type.
I mean, does he even ONCE consider Ann's possible lack of interest? Pretty sure the answer is no.
Well you see, it can make sense.
If you want to make it even more fucked up. :|
Green Mamba
Member
Yosuke's first thoughts on staking a place out are about buying adult diapers. Guy's got no filter. Ryuji's considerably more restrained.
Systolique
Member
By the way during the fight against
when Rivers in the Desert first plays as the instrumental and then switch to vocal version during human phase,
Shido
I came
A Dead Diehard
Member
eyeball_kid
Member
I think "doing dumb shit when you're 16" does give some leeway (though I wasn't making pervy comments like that at 16). I can't imagine the girls I was friends with in high school putting up with the comments that Ryuji made; they would've called him out on it or just stopped hanging out with him. So the fault lies with the writers in my opinion, for having Ann "put up with it" and never really putting Ryuji in a situation where he had to face how he was acting.
I mean Junpei said some stupid shit too, but at least it felt like there was some semblance of growth in his attitude towards women after he fell for someone.
No disagreements here; it would have been really cool if he got chewed out for it ala Junpei in P3P. Or hell, it would have been really cool if they didn't have that stuff in P5, period. But the developers fucked up by making it entirely gag related (and it isn't even very funny in P5), which is a shame.
The encounter rate in the first game is like Skies of Arcadia dreamcast level, and a lot of the battles can take a long time..
Still enjoying it though, this has been the highlight so far : https://youtu.be/46TfFZ6xh2M
Think Mark's my favourite character
Still enjoying it though, this has been the highlight so far : https://youtu.be/46TfFZ6xh2M
Think Mark's my favourite character
Which route/characters did you pick?
Yup. There are two story routes to Persona 1, the SEBEC and the Snow Queen route. You make your choice after returning from the hospital. You're on the SEBEC route.
Likewise, each route has different characters you can take. In the SEBEC route, the protagonist, Maki, Nanjo, and Mark are all required, but the fifth character slot can be Brown, Elly, Ayase, or Reiji.
Make sure you do the Snow Queen route after you beat the SEBEC route! It contains the other half of Persona 1's storyline, although it's harder than the SEBEC route.
The protagonist, Ayase, and Yukino are mandatory on that route, giving you two choices for party members.
Funyarinpa
Member
Is it just me or is that incredibly obtuse lol
It is a little. They clearly wanted the player to start the SEBEC route first. Which is also probably a good thing because the Snow Queen route is much more challenging. A max Ambrosia run of Persona 1 is probably among one of the hardest (and grindiest, sadly) challenges in a Persona game.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I found Persona 1 to be pretty obtuse about a couple things, character selection included. The one that really burned me was how to get the true ending of the SEBEC route.
That said, I actually had a lot of fun with it. Tons of problems, but still a fun game.
Funyarinpa
Member
I cleared it very recently.
I personally found only the very first part (where you're looking for a keycard) to be obtuse and annoying. The later parts were quite fun, but there were few enemies so that might've been why lol.
Late Palace gameplay spoilers:
I really loved the part with the airlocks! They could've made far tougher puzzles with that mechanic though, hahaha.
Edit:
Also, started watching P4 The Animation.
It's really frustrating to see Yosuke's characterization here.
He's relatable on a few counts (the fact that many people I know simply tolerate me, fear of loneliness, etc), and the rest is understandable. I'm 18 and I can really understand a 16 year old misunderstanding the type of relationship Yosuke and Saki had.
But then I remember all the sexist and offensive shit he does, and I remember that he gets no comeuppance, and it pisses me off. I think that ruined the character for me over time despite enjoying his goofy nature and relating to his predicament. I like a flawed character but Yosuke practically forcing the girls to wear bikinis in the trip, the whole "Will we be safe with you?" business with Kanji and such things really soured me and I just feel angry. I really, really want to like him too. But I also really, really want to dislike him and I don't know which feeling is stronger.
But then I remember all the sexist and offensive shit he does, and I remember that he gets no comeuppance, and it pisses me off. I think that ruined the character for me over time despite enjoying his goofy nature and relating to his predicament. I like a flawed character but Yosuke practically forcing the girls to wear bikinis in the trip, the whole "Will we be safe with you?" business with Kanji and such things really soured me and I just feel angry. I really, really want to like him too. But I also really, really want to dislike him and I don't know which feeling is stronger.
I actually just made it to the airlocks right now. We'll see how that goes.
But the rest of the dungeon is just overly tedious. The Barracks have loading screens everywhere, there's few places to properly sneak around enemies, the "Lunch break" puzzles require you to go through multiple lines of dialogue just to initiate, a lot of the enemies repel physical and gun, and if you don't have the precise weakness you have to do some really awkward strategies just to win. Like hitting them with despair and watching them die after three turns.
But the rest of the dungeon is just overly tedious. The Barracks have loading screens everywhere, there's few places to properly sneak around enemies, the "Lunch break" puzzles require you to go through multiple lines of dialogue just to initiate, a lot of the enemies repel physical and gun, and if you don't have the precise weakness you have to do some really awkward strategies just to win. Like hitting them with despair and watching them die after three turns.
It's the only dungeon that's actively made me switch the difficulty back to normal. Not because it's hard, but because I simply want to get this stupid crap over with.
EDIT: Gameplay spoilers in the image, but this is a really good example of what I mean.
There's no hiding spots, the enemy patrols this one hall, you can't tell which way it's facing based off it's model, and you're most likely to come in as it's facing you and automatically trigger getting detected. You have to basically run in, wait at the end of the hall, then walk up as it's going the other way. Very very tedious. Who thought this was acceptable game design?
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I think you raise valid criticisms, but I'll try to play devil's advocate here because I liked that Palace.
First, I think having too much dialogue is a problem for virtually every puzzle in the game, the lunch break puzzles are just different because the dialogue is heavily loaded at the front rather than after every step of the puzzle like others. I remember the bank in particular being a pain in the ass with all of the dialogue about the PINs. The lack of cover sucks because it basically returns the gameplay to P3/P4 dungeon crawling, but the lack of cover changed things up a bit. It's a great mechanic, but I liked having a dungeon where you had to think about how to get an ambush again rather than jumping from cover. As for your image, I just tackled them from the behind, P3/P4 style.
Finally, as for the physical/gun immunities, I really liked that t forced me to play differently. Using SP items was more important, Hifumi's party switch was more important, and teammate follow ups were more important. It broke the regular flow of weakness hit-->all-out attack, but it was the first dungeon which really made me rely on my Confidant bonuses. I liked that aspect of it.
Finally, as for the physical/gun immunities, I really liked that t forced me to play differently. Using SP items was more important, Hifumi's party switch was more important, and teammate follow ups were more important. It broke the regular flow of weakness hit-->all-out attack, but it was the first dungeon which really made me rely on my Confidant bonuses. I liked that aspect of it.
Plus, the music is kickass.
klabautermann
Member
I thought the Air Lock puzzle was really straight forward and linear. I didn't get lost, it was just longer than I would have liked it to be.
eyeball_kid
Member
I think the problem with the early puzzles in that palace -- and to an extent every palace -- is that the puzzles just don't feel worth the time investment the game asks of you. They aren't interesting or clever, they just seem like rudimentary puzzles with a lot of traversing back and forth that felt like they were put in as time filler.
A Dead Diehard
Member
*recoils in surprise*
I actually thought the puzzles in the 5th palace served a clear thematic purpose that kinda filled in the gaps that the narrative didn't present well. Like,
is a comically underutilized, underdeveloped villain who you barely get to see in the game's cutscenes, but his palace does a pretty good job of actually showing you
(with the exception of the
, which is just kinda there and doesn't really have any thematic ties as far as I can tell). If you approach the 5th palace differently from the others and not care as much to constantly ambush, and make liberal use of smokescreens to get past enemies without needing to fight, then it's not a bad dungeon. I'm an outlier as far as those things are concerned though, I enjoyed pretty much all the palaces except the latter parts of the boat which dragged on a little too long.
For the most part I think the puzzles are pretty well integrated. Their job is to be thematically consistent with the dungeon and really sell that "heist" atmosphere, not to be particularly challenging. They act as a nice break from the more straightforward path of progression and sometimes offer some cool visuals and traversal to go along. I also can't remember any instances of having to backtrack too much as the game usually asks you "hey, do you wanna fast travel there?" if a puzzle requires you to go back to a previous location.
Okumura
how his company works and how he treats and views his employees
airlock puzzle
For the most part I think the puzzles are pretty well integrated. Their job is to be thematically consistent with the dungeon and really sell that "heist" atmosphere, not to be particularly challenging. They act as a nice break from the more straightforward path of progression and sometimes offer some cool visuals and traversal to go along. I also can't remember any instances of having to backtrack too much as the game usually asks you "hey, do you wanna fast travel there?" if a puzzle requires you to go back to a previous location.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
I have a P5 question. Are there any gameplay benefits regarding which women you have a relationship with or is it inconsequential?
Lol I over-think the dating aspect with these RPGs. I had to pause ME2 for a good 15 min trying to figure out who to pursue.
Lol I over-think the dating aspect with these RPGs. I had to pause ME2 for a good 15 min trying to figure out who to pursue.
Nope, it's meaningless.
You get to have a few dates and there's a special event near the end of the game, but aside from that not really. There aren't any gameplay benefits you get from dating a person that you couldn't get by simply maxing their Confidants as friends.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I think the bolded is why I liked the puzzles, even though they were pretty simple. The Palaces offer interesting heist set-ups, but beyond the Treasure of the second museum the only gameplay element that's kinda heist related are the puzzles. The back tracking is really mitigated by the offer of fast travel, which helps limit frustration.
As others have said, nothing important. Though I think the girl you spend Valentine's with gives you an item to help max her Confidant faster in NG+.
The scene which got me was in Ann (i think) confidant , which basically she offer to date him if he helps her and he totally blow her off like "you are not an anime girl (hi 4th wall) , stop that shit" without second thoughts...
That exchange got me surprised , like seriously what Junpei and specially Yosuke would do in that situation if a girl offer (joking or not) to date them.
Right after that nigga got called out for like Ann "rival" , but still Ann X Ryuji relationship is way better than Junpei x Yukari and Yosuke x literally every female in this series.
I wasn't really bothered by any dungeon or it's puzzles until I hit the
one. The
portion was so tedious I actually put the game down for quite awhile. It wouldn't have been nearly as tedious if there hadn't been respawning enemies and tons of loading screens between the safe room and the puzzle's objectives.
I actually think that was one of the better puzzles to be honest, but I'm pretty good at figuring out spatial puzzles like that.
5th
barracks
I actually think that was one of the better puzzles to be honest, but I'm pretty good at figuring out spatial puzzles like that.
A Dead Diehard
Member
I mean, it was fine on NG+ where I just barrelled through the enemies, but on my first go, the enemy placement and lack of cover was nightmarish.
And then the
airlocks
Funyarinpa
Member
Wow I actually think the camping trip's actually quite genuinely funny (except one part) this time around.
-The Honoka subplot is HILARIOUS. Loved it.
-Naoki being there is great.
-I'd forgotten how much I love Kanji.
-I'm glad the tent scene is not so much about Yosuke's homophobia now. The undertone's still there but it's played off more as Kanji misunderstanding the situation to be about cutesy things, if I'm not wrong. (And even if I'm wrong, Yosuke doesn't drag it the fuck out like in the game.) Yu's comments were less homophobic and more teasing (and fucking hilarious), so I liked that too. This scene is my single least favorite scene in the game, so I'm glad they toned it down here.
-Naoki being there is great.
-I'd forgotten how much I love Kanji.
-I'm glad the tent scene is not so much about Yosuke's homophobia now. The undertone's still there but it's played off more as Kanji misunderstanding the situation to be about cutesy things, if I'm not wrong. (And even if I'm wrong, Yosuke doesn't drag it the fuck out like in the game.) Yu's comments were less homophobic and more teasing (and fucking hilarious), so I liked that too. This scene is my single least favorite scene in the game, so I'm glad they toned it down here.
Yosuke really IS a dipshit though.
Him coaxing the girls into wearing bikinis is still unacceptable, though I admit I find the aftermath hilarious.
eyeball_kid
Member
I thought the most heist-like palace was
definitely the bank. I thought the security cameras were a good mechanic that should have been used in other palaces. They definitely gave the palace a MGS infiltration kind of feel.
I would've been happy with just the atmosphere of the Palaces without most of the puzzles. Perhaps I'm complaining more about time wasting here because P5 took me 270 hours to beat, but still...in general Persona games don't need extra padding; they are long enough already.
It's funny, I saw the Valentine's event mentioned so much in passing here when I was playing (without the NG+ connection) that I had the impression the game lasted a full year. I'm not sure if I would have tried to min-max things more, but I definitely would've been more focused on a few Confidants instead of dabbling in many.
Star Orpheus
Member
It's always surreal coming here and seeing how people react to Yosuke, then going elsewhere where he's one of the most popular characters in the series.
Not saying I don't get why people dislike him but the contrast is always amusing.
Not saying I don't get why people dislike him but the contrast is always amusing.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I'm not sure I agree with calling the puzzles being one-and-done, though any idea they revisited was kinda driven into the ground instead of meaningfully expanded upon
(the PINs in the bank, the jewels in the pyramid, and the mice on the ship for example).
P5 has padding that could be removed, I just don't think the puzzles are the problem. It's not what happens in the game that makes it so long, but rather how it happens. As for the 270 hours thing, that's on you haha.
Funyarinpa
Member
I really like him SAVE FOR his sexist/homophobic moments but those really soured me on him after hearing about how they disturbed other people (without that context, they could've been somewhat funny to me too).
Agreed
I don't think removing the puzzles would be ideal at all, and when they work, they work. Without them, it'd just be a straight shoot to the Palace's exit, which wouldn't be terribly exciting. Building towards completing a dungeon is the essence of good dungeon design. P5 just fumbles in that regard in 5 and especially in 7. Personally I enjoyed 5, but I paced my myself and didn't really have problems with the puzzles.
Double Donut
Member
Oh dear god. Just started playing P4D and the second Sumomo spoke I was like "...oh fuck that's Morgana".
Confirmed my suspicion via google.
This is weird now.
Confirmed my suspicion via google.
This is weird now.
eyeball_kid
Member
I would've been fine if P5 palaces retained their atmosphere and theming, but were basically more elaborate, hand-crafted versions of Tartarus, but like 30% shorter than those levels. I enjoyed the mini-bosses in the palaces, and was happy to scratch the press-turn itch with some mobss, but that's all I really needed as a counter-balance to the social part of the game. As it was, I was exhausted with the dungeons by the end. I started using guides just to get through them as quickly as possible.
But I know I'm way in the minority on that.
Had the pleasure of play Soul Hackers around the same time as Persona 5 i cant literally unhear Morgana everytime Hitomi speaks either.
All the main cast of that one is pretty much p3 and p4 actors so i cant unhear them too .. specially Laura Bailey :C.
(PD: The lady who voice Nozomi in DAN should do more Atlus / Persona work in the future , idk why i love her voice so much when i went through DAN Story mode).
A Dead Diehard
Member
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0454064/
It's funny, I could've sworn I heard the name before, but I haven't seen a single thing she was in.
Still, landing a character like Wonder Woman's got to mean some pretty good acting chops. Hope she shows up in other Atlus games.
Had the pleasure of play Soul Hackers around the same time as Persona 5 i cant literally unhear Morgana everytime Hitomi speaks either.
Fun fact: The voice actress is also Airi Ban in Devil Survivor 2 and Toki in SMT IV Apocalypse.
I would say a lot of voices in P5 are also from SMT IV/Apocalypse xD
So we roll the dice,
See where they may fall
Come on, why don't we spin the wheel
See whom it may call
(To) Give into temptation
(To) Win it
(Or) Maybe lose it all
Who knows
Where the whims of fate may lead us
Sorry I cant helped it...
She is in Zero Time Dilemma and Legends of Heroes too , like she started this kind of roles very recently (and most of them under Arem direction) so i hope i can listen her more in the anime circle or these kind of games too.
----
Her Wonder Woman is good , but damn WW is a char with so many VA and diferent takes idk how she should sound or compare with it.