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Persona Community Thread |OT9| SPOILER TAGS OR DIE

D

Deleted member 518609

Unconfirmed Member
It's not stilted when you take the full line into account:

"You should know... I am no longer your subservient puppet!"

This line has more passion and intensity than your suggestions, and it's more thematically relevant considering she's apparently lived her life doing unquestionably following orders.

"Subservient" and "puppet" are good word choices.

That's definitely not the full line. "You should know" and "I am no longer your subservient puppet" may play back to back in the trailer, but I know exactly what scene the latter line is from, and it's definitely not prefaced with that, and if it is, that just makes the translation even worse.
"Subservient" and "puppet" don't belong though. The original line doesn't have any symbolism of that sort to it, it's just saying "I won't obey you". Localization should be about preserving meaning - not adding new meanings. There's really no need to change the line, the original line translates over to English perfectly fine, and it's easy to reword it slightly to fit her personality. This is going overboard, and judging from how many people are being distracted by the stilted nature of it, it's not having the impact it should be.
 

Makio

Member
They can still keep up sort of weekly confidant trailers, as long as they don't do what Atlus Japan did and drop them all at once. And mementos/other mechanics trailers.

It seems the plan , Is funny because the delay make you think they gonna are stay under the radar (silence) a few weeks ... but is like the delay make them think "we need to post more".

Persona 5 is a big game , pretty sure you can make tons of trailers of everything , and it seems they are gonna do the same thing they did with Golden where they made trailers of EVERYTHING ... and even drop some scenes of the game at some point.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1A6A02B095E18DAE

Looks like a plan if they want to keep this video for week ratio,
 
Yep, I knew I shouldn't have come in here.

But morbid curiosity is a powerful thing :/

Man, wonder what the extent of line reworking will be if this is really setting people off that badly.
 

Sophia

Member
Yep, I knew I shouldn't have come in here.

But morbid curiosity is a powerful thing :/

Man, wonder what the extent of line reworking will be if this is really setting people off that badly.

For what it's worth, the livestream they did showed the dialogue was way better then the character trailers. I'm not too worried.

Haru will probably sound fine in the final game. The voice is spot on for her, at any rate.
 

Makio

Member
Funny because i was like "finally a dub trailer who people cant complain about" "You did good Ms.Huynh the voice is in point and i love you" and then find out people dont like the lines or the script,

LOL this localization cant catch a break , keep it like that and Persona 6 is gonna be Japanese audio only hehee.

PLS no Hardin
 

PK Gaming

Member
That's definitely not the full line. "You should know" and "I am no longer your subservient puppet" may play back to back in the trailer, but I know exactly what scene the latter line is from, and it's definitely not prefaced with that, and if it is, that just makes the translation even worse.
"Subservient" and "puppet" don't belong though. The original line doesn't have any symbolism of that sort to it, it's just saying "I won't obey you". Localization should be about preserving meaning - not adding new meanings. There's really no need to change the line, the original line translates over to English perfectly fine, and it's easy to reword it slightly to fit her personality. This is going overboard, and judging from how many people are being distracted by the stilted nature of it, it's not having the impact it should be.

...

You are so going down when P5 finally releases.

WATCH ME.
 

Nachos

Member
1) I trust our localizers and what their doing, especially with this one-liner being taken out of context of the rest of her dialogue. (even though I have no specific knowledge of that line)
I mean, there are people in the thread who have either spoiled themselves on the game or who have actually played it themselves. I can't speak to it myself, but just because the context isn't presented in the trailer doesn't mean that it should be hard to figure out.

2) My hs was FULL of self-important teenagers that talked like this.
The key word being "self-important." Formality doesn't always mean pretension or being overwrought. Haru doesn't seem like any of those things.

It's not stilted when you take the full line into account:

"You should know... I am no longer your subservient puppet!"

This line has more passion and intensity than your suggestions, and it's more thematically relevant considering she's apparently lived her life unquestionably following orders.

"Subservient" and "puppet" are good word choices too.
I'm not inherently against redundancy, because real diction isn't Shakespeare, in speech or even when given the time to gather your thoughts in writing – unless you do multiple editing passes. But even with that mind, I think it's still too much. Like it's over-embellishing the text to give the intensity, instead of trusting the actress to bring it through her acting process.

For an outburst, it's a little too neatly-prepared.
 

Dantis

Member
The problem with the dialogue is that it doesn't flow well, and these weird and awkward lines are showing up everywhere. It started off in Ann's trailer and it's carried on to here.

It doesn't bode for a great translation, but on the other hand, maybe nobody will care.

EDIT: As an aside, I don't think it matters too much that it doesn't sound like how a teenager speaks. What matters is whether it sounds good. I don't think any of us really want them to sound like real teenagers.
 

Dantis

Member
Oh spare me the condescension, Dantis. It means everything. The whole point of her character is that she subverts the Yamato Nadeshiko archetype and is actually quite spirited in personality. Reducing a character to their spell element? Bro, do you even know why she gets Fire skills in the first place? It's a core element (lol) of her character. She even outright mentions hating her name (it means Snow child). Her Persona clearly represents her true self, and unlike the other characters her element choice is extremely relevant to her character.

So no, a "cold" theme would never work because it would clash hard with her character. Not to mention it would clash with her moveset aesthetic, which is literally all about fire (do you even fighting game?). Her current theme is fine (good even), and your suggestion that it should be more aggressive is completely ridiculous. Like why??

Okay, so, I only just saw this, and it's a weirdly scattered response. So let's break it down.

So, first of all, her Persona doesn't really represent her true self. It respresents an aspect of her. Yukiko gets fire as her element because it goes against the player's initial perception of her, and it links in nicely with her design and her name and whatnot.
So when we say a cold theme wouldn't work because her element is fire, it's at best reductive, and at worse redundant.

Yukiko is a cold character. It's just a fact. She's distant and lonely and absent minded and quite scathing. When people get to know her, they discover that she's this doofy, passionate person, and that warmth is what comes through as the fire element. But that aspect, to me, is quite a nuanced one, compared to the large one, which is this quite romanticised beautiful, hardworking and traditional Japanese woman.

I suppose, if I really considered it, I'd want quite a cold, cool sounding track that warms up during the chorus. That would fit Yukiko, I think.

And as far as representing characters, I feel like you have the wrong idea. I'm not a composer, and I'm not claiming to be, so my ideas are just spitballing. The larger point is that the themes just don't fit the characters like they should, and some broad compositional choices which I would have thought were no-brainers (How does Kanji not have a metal theme?) are completely absent.

Killer Instinct did what I'm talking about wonderfully, and due to its two composers (Celldweller and Mick Gordon), presents two completely different takes on the idea.

Listen to Mick Gordon's theme for Glacius.. Now if I tell you that Glacius is an ice-based alien character, can you honestly tell me that his theme isn't fucking perfect?

With Celldweller, it's a different situation, because Celldweller has a specific sound that people associate with his sound, so there isn't as much variety, because it has to be Celldweller music, but it still encapsulates the character. Check out Arbiter's theme. Not only is it a tremendous piece of music, it's so deeply rooted in references to both Arbiter and Halo. Now compare it to RAAM's theme. It's all organs and guitars, because of course it is, because that's like Gears to a tee.

Now let's loop it back to Persona Arena. How does this represent Naoto? I don't see it at all. How does this fit Mitsuru? All the tracks start with some (I think synthesised?) guitars, and then bust into Kitajoh's really ugly full on synth instruments.

So the issue isn't with one specific track, it's with, like, all the tracks. It's with the way the OSTs were approached. I know I've been saying it a lot lately, but it could have been done better.
 

Makio

Member
TFW "Princess Amagi" is like the only theme i like or seriously i can recognize outside of Arena / Ultimax

But idk others theme works well for the character like Redacted , Both Sho themes , Yosuke , S.Labrys , Rise.

And of course the ones which are already better tracks anyway i mean Margaret and Elizabeth works because is Battle for Everyone Souls is the shit , Aigis = Heartful Cry is great and Narukami = Reach out the Truth is one of the fans favorite of the p4 tracks , so no way they can go wrong with those.

But i agree ... the Mitsuru theme sounds anything like her and most of them sound like the variations of a same track which make forgettable most of them.
 

Sophia

Member
Now let's loop it back to Persona Arena. How does this represent Naoto? I don't see it at all. How does this fit Mitsuru? All the tracks start with some (I think synthesised?) guitars, and then bust into Kitajoh's really ugly full on synth instruments.

I actually think this track fits Mitsuru decently enough. The electronic guitar intro is pretty good. I'm particularly fond of the Melty Blood-esque bridge/verse area.

Naoto's theme is probably the worst of the Kitajoh tracks in the original tho. Doesn't really fit her at all. : \

TFW "Princess Amagi" is like the only theme i like or seriously i can recognize outside of Arena / Ultimax

But idk others theme works well for the character like Redacted , Both Sho themes , Yosuke , S.Labrys , Rise.

And of course the ones which are already better tracks anyway i mean Margaret and Elizabeth works because is Battle for Everyone Souls is the shit , Aigis = Heartful Cry is great and Narukami = Reach out the Truth is one of the fans favorite of the p4 tracks , so no way they can go wrong with those.

But i agree ... the Mitsuru theme sounds anything like her and most of them sound like the variations of a same track which make forgettable most of them.

The In-Game version of Heartful Cry is probably one of it's worst renditions, in my opinion. Poor instrumentation choice that drowns out the piano, and missing the intro + a few other effects of the original.
 
The In-Game version of Heartful Cry is probably one of it's worst renditions, in my opinion. Poor instrumentation choice that drowns out the piano, and missing the intro + a few other effects of the original.

Probably the idea, considering it's used as "time for Aigis to kick your teeth in" instead of it's original use of "friends are fighting and ain't it soooo saaaaad?"

Also, I personally like Yukiko's theme, but it's pretty much the only non-remix I really remember aside from Chie's, which is... something.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Okay, so, I only just saw this, and it's a weirdly scattered response. So let's break it down.

So, first of all, her Persona doesn't really represent her true self. It respresents an aspect of her. Yukiko gets fire as her element because it goes against the player's initial perception of her, and it links in nicely with her design and her name and whatnot.
So when we say a cold theme wouldn't work because her element is fire, it's at best reductive, and at worse redundant.

Okay, but that aspect ncredibly important part of her, considering a Persona is literally a manifestation of a person's psyche. Like forget the player; Yukiko's own distaste for snow and being considered an icey beauty is part of the reason why her element is fire. I mean for God sakes, her ironic title is "The Unconquerable Snow Black." A cold theme wouldn't fit for a character who fundamentally opposes being pigeonholed into that archetype.

Yukiko is a cold character. It's just a fact. She's distant and lonely and absent minded and quite scathing. When people get to know her, they discover that she's this doofy, passionate person, and that warmth is what comes through as the fire element. But that aspect, to me, is quite a nuanced one, compared to the large one, which is this quite romanticised beautiful, hardworking and traditional Japanese woman.

Your entire analysis is predicated on Yukiko's initial characterization, which is quite frankly, completely irrelevant since she goes through a character arc. I mean come on, do you honestly think she remains the way? And scathing, really? There are only 2 instances where she's scathing (in a non-joke context) and both of them are completely justified.

Yukiko is a character who both conforms and subverts her stereotype. She is both the beautiful, hardworking Japanese woman and the excitable, goofy, ditzy, spirited girl that completely shatters that image. Maybe Persona 4 perhaps tries a bit too hard (okay really hard) in hammering that last point, but it's there, and using her initial characterization as justification for calling her cold is incredibly misguided.

I mean I hate to use spinoffs to strengthen my argument, but her characterization in all of those games literally go against the cool, standoffish beauty that you're trying to push.

"This win will do wonders to my Amagi Inn!" (vs. Yukiko as Yu or Naoto in Arcade Mode)
"To HELL with you!" (When reaching Awakening Mode)
"I'll finish you in one strike!" (E3 trailer)
(literally all of her win / lose quotes)

So cold, right

I suppose, if I really considered it, I'd want quite a cold, cool sounding track that warms up during the chorus. That would fit Yukiko, I think.

I mean that works too, but I think her current theme suits her fine. It's a nice blend of beauty and grace, mixed in with some jammin rock to represent her fiery passion. I clearly don't have a background in music, but it feels "right" to me.

And as far as representing characters, I feel like you have the wrong idea. I'm not a composer, and I'm not claiming to be, so my ideas are just spitballing. The larger point is that the themes just don't fit the characters like they should, and some broad compositional choices which I would have thought were no-brainers (How does Kanji not have a metal theme?) are completely absent.

I don't disagree with the assertion that some theme songs straight up don't suit the characters. Some of them are just straight bad (like you said, Naoto and Kanji not having Jazz / metal is... what), but genuinely I think Yukiko's theme works for the reasons I've stated.
 

Tamanon

Banned
I dunno, I don't think Haru sounds any more out of place than hearing Naoto using big words unnecessarily. There's always gotta be one and it always sounds weird out of context. I like her voice acting thus far.
 

Dantis

Member
I dunno, I don't think Haru sounds any more out of place than hearing Naoto using big words unnecessarily. There's always gotta be one and it always sounds weird out of context. I like her voice acting thus far.
Are you really a bad person, as the rumour says?
 

Lunar15

Member
Part of me wonders if a lot of the lines we're getting are from anime scenes, where they had to fit the lines to the action of the characters. There's a lot more anime in this game than in previous games, where most of the script could be written in a more natural way since nothing had to be matched up.
 
Part of me wonders if a lot of the lines we're getting are from anime scenes, where they had to fit the lines to the action of the characters. There's a lot more anime in this game than in previous games, where most of the script could be written in a more natural way since nothing had to be matched up.
I think the above Ann line is, yes. Haru's isn't, I think.
 
Part of me wonders if a lot of the lines we're getting are from anime scenes, where they had to fit the lines to the action of the characters. There's a lot more anime in this game than in previous games, where most of the script could be written in a more natural way since nothing had to be matched up.

Anime or the proper cutscenes that don't work in the usual VN-esque style (the awakenings, for instance).
 

MSMrRound

Member
Thanks to my colleague who opened some boxes, here's a look at some of the signed Persona 5 Weiss Schwarz cards, from the set that was released today in Japan:
CzohX2eVIAEZLrZ.jpg
 

Mediking

Member
Who are you guys really interested into meeting in the game?

I'm really curious about Makio's backstory and Haru.

I also wanna get to know about the kids that are working with Igor. Like what's the story with them?
 

Setsu00

Member
Who are you guys really interested into meeting in the game?

I'm really curious about Makio's backstory and Haru.

I also wanna get to know about the kids that are working with Igor. Like what's the story with them?

Makio's backstory is probably interesting, but I don't think this will be part of P5's storyline, sorry.

Yusuke, Makoto and especially Goro have piqued my curiosity.
 

Mediking

Member

Makio

Member
Makio's backstory is probably interesting, but I don't think this will be part of P5's storyline, sorry.

Everything begin in 1976 when my dad meets my mom and then.....

Who is Makio?

Hi.

A NeoGAF user.

Pretty much besides other things

Hahahah I can't believe I said Makio instead of Makoto. Whoops!!

I wouldnt be surprised if someone mistake my nickname with Maiko from Persona 3 (since it got the same letters) hell even Maki from Persona 1 , and even i could understand since i use a Makoto avatar for months but that is not even the case anymore.

Makoto is the best girl tho ,pretty sure she is the one i gonna "social link" first and that pretty much the only thing we got in common.

LMAO
 

Mediking

Member
No problem i was caught off base too by Mediking comment , still surprised nobody came out with Maiko (P3) but i understand she kinda forgetable.

Hahahaha. Who can forget Maiko from P3??? She's crazy adorable and triggered Nanako from P4! Lol
Code:
[IMG]http://lparchive.org/Persona-3/Update%208/80-Persona3-7-229.jpg[/IMG]

I freaking love Maiko though. I know we all discussed this before but I'll say it again. Nanako was super annoying to me in P4G until later in the game...

Code:
[IMG]http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/atlus/persona/persona-4golden/nanako610.jpg[/IMG]

....

Yo..... how about timeskip Maiko and Nanako as characters in a future Persona game....?
 

Dantis

Member
So, I watched Makoto's trailer again.

In regards to the whole FISTS OF JUSTICE thing, I think it's possible that I just had a misconception of the character. The trailer portrays her as less of a Naoto-type character (quite quiet(ly dorky) and thoughtful) and more like a Chie (more outgoing and incredibly dorky). Does anyone who played the import (and understood it) have any idea if this is the case?
 

Lynx_7

Member
Hahahaha. Who can forget Maiko from P3??? She's crazy adorable and triggered Nanako from P4! Lol
I freaking love Maiko though. I know we all discussed this before but I'll say it again. Nanako was super annoying to me in P4G until later in the game...

....

Yo..... how about timeskip Maiko and Nanako as characters in a future Persona game....?

How about a magical girl spin-off. Did you ever think about that? Mahou Shoujo Liner Prismer Nanako. And they're lesbians. Get on that, Atlus.
 

Mediking

Member
How about a magical girl spin-off. Did you ever think about that? Mahou Shoujo Liner Prismer Nanako. And they're lesbians. Get on that, Atlus.

Hahahah I really was joking about the Nanako and Maiko timeskip thing. Honest. My jokes are terrible. Lol

Maiko is one of my favorite social links though. And I really did think Nanako was annoying in P4G until later in the game after I appreciated her more thanks to Dojima.
 

OrionX

Member
Hahahah I really was joking about the Nanako and Maiko timeskip thing. Honest. My jokes are terrible. Lol

Maiko is one of my favorite social links though. And I really did think Nanako was annoying in P4G until later in the game after I appreciated her more thanks to Dojima.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it was directed at you. lol

I actually would like to see an older Nanako at some point. Not necessarily as a party member but at least a cameo would be cool.
 
So, I watched Makoto's trailer again.

In regards to the whole FISTS OF JUSTICE thing, I think it's possible that I just had a misconception of the character. The trailer portrays her as less of a Naoto-type character (quite quiet(ly dorky) and thoughtful) and more like a Chie (more outgoing and incredibly dorky). Does anyone who played the import (and understood it) have any idea if this is the case?
While my understanding was still quite limited, I never saw anything that made me think of Chie honestly. Between the two I definitely found her to be more similar to Naoto than Chie, that's for sure.
 
D

Deleted member 518609

Unconfirmed Member
So, I watched Makoto's trailer again.

In regards to the whole FISTS OF JUSTICE thing, I think it's possible that I just had a misconception of the character. The trailer portrays her as less of a Naoto-type character (quite quiet(ly dorky) and thoughtful) and more like a Chie (more outgoing and incredibly dorky). Does anyone who played the import (and understood it) have any idea if this is the case?

She's much closer to that Naoto description for sure. Probably not "quiet", but not loud and outgoing like Chie. She's very straitlaced.
 
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