P3P was like that because they were able to take already established characters that people were familiar with and configure Social Links in that sense. Again, I was glad with how Junpei wasn't a romanceable option in the female side for P3P. When I talk about this, I'm mainly referring to the male side of P3 and P4 as a whole.
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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
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P3P was like that because they were able to take already established characters that people were familiar with and configure Social Links in that sense. Again, I was glad with how Junpei wasn't a romanceable option in the female side for P3P. When I talk about this, I'm mainly referring to the male side of P3 and P4 as a whole.
But, by helping them out through their social links, aren't you essentially earning that affection? I wouldn't say it's unearned. Given how intimately the MC gets to know each of these characters, particularly in 4, it would actually be kind of surprising if they didn't start to fall for him.
But I understand your meaning. You do get that "oh god this is a dating sim" feeling when they start to blush and suddenly ask relationship questions. I also agree with FluxWaveZ in that I liked how Junpei wasn't romanceable due to his previously established arc.
Yeah, since 3P came out after 4, I take this as a sign that moving forward, if the game still has links, they'll move in more of a direction like this, instead of the whole "normal link whole way OMG LIKE ME Y/N?!"
IHaveCandy
Banned
I'm not really arguing that certain characters should be off-limits. I mean, it would make sense for some to be off-limits if it is a story thing. I just think the characters' affection should be earned. Make the conversations much more meaningful that occur during social-link building. Maybe one character is more likely to fall for you if you are very kind during the time of your visits or the amount of time you spend with them in battle. Maybe another character doesn't like a guy being super sweet and prefers a guy who is a bit of a straight-forward guy. The conversations should matter more.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. I guess I wouldn't mind all of the romance options if that shit was actually significant in any way and had any impact on the narrative. Since P4, I've always thought the S. Link system needs some serious change and that's part of the reason why I enjoyed Marie's so much because despite being a relatively uninteresting character, her S. Link scenes were dynamic and involved other characters.
I would like the relationships to play a bigger role in the future. I don't like how they happen at the end of slinks then are never really mentioned by the rest of the cast and you don't have to do anything again. Reminds me if that p3 meme where you finish the SLink and never talk to them again. Make it dynamic.
It's another thing about golden I like so much, all the extra events with them. Dunno about everyone else but I relay enjoyed Yosukes "wait, you two were here together!?" thing
It's another thing about golden I like so much, all the extra events with them. Dunno about everyone else but I relay enjoyed Yosukes "wait, you two were here together!?" thing
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well it's never like you're really going out of your way to help them resolve their problems. I feel like for the most part, you just happen to be there when they are going through troubles and lend them your ear. You can be a complete ass and say the rudest option every time and they'll still fall for you. That's what I mean about it being unearned. In real life, if a guy lets a girl vent her problems to him, he's friend-zoned.
I like the harem aspects because I am very lonely and it makes me feel good and happy when characters tell me they love me
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well I'm not really trying to argue that they shouldn't ever fall for the MC. I'm just saying there should be more reasons for why they fall in love with the MC. It shouldn't be a linear progression of their character. At least, every female character shouldn't be like that. Maybe one character is very likely to fall for you, while another is much harder and you must work much harder to let it happen. Doing this would also allow them to put more meaning behind being in a relationship. Maybe something like you get their Persona as well, which lets you use them to fuse more unique Personas.
Yes, but it still leads to the same place eventually.
Yet those dialogue options, mainly in P4, have absolutely no importance at all other than the number of music notes you get.
Oh ok, I get you.
P3 is pretty bad about relationships since iirc, you can't proceed the link without being the "the most perfect guy ever who says what the girls want to hear at the right time." It's funny because Makoto Yuki looks (and sounds) like the most uninterested person ever. I think it would be cool in P5 if romantic relationships were really difficult to cultivate, like P3P's (but several steps further_.
asdsgh
blargh
there is no friend-zone
EDIT: For the most part, I LOVED the romantic relationships between P4 MC and the girls (barring Naoto for obvious reason) and female MC in P3P.
They're heart melting ♥
I'm not saying that having more depth wouldn't be nice, but calling it a harem is hilarious. The relationships don't progress unless you spend time with them. Sure the girls may all innately be attracted to him (which, by the way, is explained in the story), but they won't profess their love and their character doesn't get development beyond the main story unless you continuously spend time with them.
how many relationships have you been in
IHaveCandy
Banned
It follows the harem archetype pretty closely. I'd define a harem archetype as a story where the main character find himself around women that all eventually fall for him far too easily. I'd say that's the case for the characters in Persona 3 and 4. Their affection is a natural progression of just spending time with them.
3 worth remembering.
otherwise known as Human Bonding
I don't think you know what the harem archetype entails. It consists of a group of girls that are magically attracted to the male character for no real reason beyond him existing. In P4 it requires extensive time spent together. Which makes sense.
Except, none of the girls are romantically interested in the MC in the main storyline. (barring Rise, who admits in her SL that she's mostly teasing him) You get acquainted with each of them in their own specific social link and eventually they fall in love with you (whether you share that sentiment or not is entirely up to you) in that specific isolated social link.
It's not always multiplicative; I could see the P4 MC engaging in a relationship with one girl at most. Or all of them? It's not set in stone, and very much up to you (the game never directly forces you to make a choice you wouldn't want to make in terms of relationships; it's all about the choice).
But sure, it barely follows the harem archetype. So?
IHaveCandy
Banned
I really don't get the resistance here. Here's what I am saying.
MC + female character + time together shouldn't = Automatic romantic feelings regardless of what has happened during that time together.
I'm not trying to say they shouldn't ever have romantic feelings or that it's bad if they do. I'm simply saying the path to get to those romantic feelings is extremely weak and that aspect of it hurts the development of those characters. I think the best way to handle it is to make it far more challenging to earn their affection. What you say and do during your time together should matter and completely control how that relationship goes. The time you spend in combat together should also help expedite your level of comradary. Allowing this to be a greater challenge would allow it to be an actual reward too. As it stands now, you just max out their S. Link, let them love you, then never hang out with them since you have to max out another girl. Why not have it so having a girlfriend/best bud allows you to hang out with other people together with your girlfriend/best bud as a 3 way event. That could allow more opportunity for events and interactions. Why not let having a girlfriend/best bud let you also have their Persona? Maybe having their Persona allows you to make unique and new Personas by fusion? Maybe fusing your friends' Personas could make some of the greatest Personas in the game, but it would be more challenging to do? What is wrong with these ideas? Why would it be better for it to just be a simple "lets spend time and I'll fall for you" thing?
MC + female character + time together shouldn't = Automatic romantic feelings regardless of what has happened during that time together.
I'm not trying to say they shouldn't ever have romantic feelings or that it's bad if they do. I'm simply saying the path to get to those romantic feelings is extremely weak and that aspect of it hurts the development of those characters. I think the best way to handle it is to make it far more challenging to earn their affection. What you say and do during your time together should matter and completely control how that relationship goes. The time you spend in combat together should also help expedite your level of comradary. Allowing this to be a greater challenge would allow it to be an actual reward too. As it stands now, you just max out their S. Link, let them love you, then never hang out with them since you have to max out another girl. Why not have it so having a girlfriend/best bud allows you to hang out with other people together with your girlfriend/best bud as a 3 way event. That could allow more opportunity for events and interactions. Why not let having a girlfriend/best bud let you also have their Persona? Maybe having their Persona allows you to make unique and new Personas by fusion? Maybe fusing your friends' Personas could make some of the greatest Personas in the game, but it would be more challenging to do? What is wrong with these ideas? Why would it be better for it to just be a simple "lets spend time and I'll fall for you" thing?
IHaveCandy
Banned
From one-side, yes. The female characters will always fall for you if you spend enough time with them, except for Naoto.
Other than Naoto, it doesn't take any effort other than spending time with a character to romance them.
It's not like we don't want those things, on the contrary i'd love just about everything you suggested.
I just don't see a point to harp on the fact that doing nothing (progressing through a social link = / = doing nothing imo) will lead you to a lovers relationship or dismissing the female relationships and referring to them as "harems." From the looks of P3P and Catherine, it's likely that Hashino will add way more depth to the romance aspect of social links.
IHaveCandy
Banned
It feels like a harem because walking in you know "I'm going to get all of you to fall for me just by spending time with you." I don't think "harem" has an extremely rigid definition. I mean, if we're going to be literal about it, a harem is a place where only women of a polygamous relationship are allowed to be in with no men allowed. I've always taken "harem" in animes to mean a group of women have an unnaturally strong attraction towards the main character. I guess I'd define the simplicity in how that romantic attraction is developed with all of the female characters as unnatural.
You can fuck up your S.Link with Ai, I know nobody cares about her, but just saying.
I'm not against having more diversity and depth to how you social link with people, especially romance partners.
You are turning your argument into a semantic one.
edit: Missed this when I first read:
This is true. In fact, as I've already said, the game explains this.
I'm not against having more diversity and depth to how you social link with people, especially romance partners.
You are turning your argument into a semantic one.
edit: Missed this when I first read:
This is true. In fact, as I've already said, the game explains this.
IHaveCandy
Banned
No, I wasn't the first to make it semantic. I was responding to the semantic argument. Anyways, I think we've kinda talked about that topic as much as we could. I'll stop pushing my argument so much since I'm kinda just repeating myself and I don't want to sound like I'm trying to beat my opinion into everybody's head.
I am interested in hearing more about Persona 5. Something that I've come to like about Persona is how they make a slight twist to normal life. I wonder what they will do with Persona 5. I hope it has something to do with computers. I never played Soul Hackers, but I've heard its basically Persona with computers.
I am interested in hearing more about Persona 5. Something that I've come to like about Persona is how they make a slight twist to normal life. I wonder what they will do with Persona 5. I hope it has something to do with computers. I never played Soul Hackers, but I've heard its basically Persona with computers.
This is kinda irrelevant. Almost everyone takes a liking to you, be they romantic or not.
Agreed. It still bothered me that whoever you're linked with doesn't visit in November really. Anything that makes you really see behind the curtain kills things.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I think they talk about why others will be drawn to you, not wanting to bear your children.
Not that it invalidates the criticism, but you just described interactive romance in every game it has appeared in to date.
Can you? How? I love Ai. I didn't romance her, but she's one of the more complicated characters in the game. She has a great arc.
buddha0991
Member
I suppose, but I guess I'm not very familiar with interactive romance in games. Like it's been said, having more of a P3P female side approach to relationships would do wonders instead of how simple the process was in P4.
There is no magic reason that people are attracted to the MC and if there was that would be incredibly dumb; actually approaching harem VN levels of dumb.
Have you ever even watched an Anime before?
P3P released after P4, so that should explain itself. The team is progressively improving basically everything they do.
This is how it will probably be in P5. Keep in mind P3P came out two years after P4.
EDIT: Me and Ron on the Tag Team attack! OOOOH YEEEEEEEAH.
what if the game has magic
Ai is something else alright! She had one of the better appearances in the anime. Love her episode.
2Pimpin
My god they sync in timing and everything.
lol.
Well, yeah. I don't think anyone's saying that P5 will take exactly the same approach as P3 or P4. We're just discussing what we want it to be like.
What if everything could be explained and hand waved by saying a wizard did it
what about witches
with the release of SMT 4 in Japan coming so soon... I'm kind of bummed out because I've been replaying Nocturne and just thinking the visuals look so fantastic and they could look even better with a little more memory and in 1080. Instead, I'm getting the ugly 3ds resolution :/
I know some people want Persona 5 on handhelds, but I really, really hope not. Especially after how good Catherine looks on PS3/360
I know some people want Persona 5 on handhelds, but I really, really hope not. Especially after how good Catherine looks on PS3/360
I think people want and expect P5 on console(s) and (assuming they played P3P and or P4G) think a Vita port would be nice. And I guess 3DS, too.
There's an overwhelmingly loud (and misguided) sect of the hardcore 3DS fan base that thinks P5 will be on 3DS because of how they've perverted Atlus' relationship with Nintendo into a burning romance.
There's an overwhelmingly loud (and misguided) sect of the hardcore 3DS fan base that thinks P5 will be on 3DS because of how they've perverted Atlus' relationship with Nintendo into a burning romance.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I would imagine Playstation 3 is a lock for Persona 5. The game is likely too large in scope to just be a 3DS game since it's been in development since 2010. I could see a downport on 3DS, but a Vita downport makes sense since Sony has streamlined that process. It's pretty neat that you can play every single Persona game on Vita. I hope that continues with 5.
afreaknamedpete
Member
After Strange Journey I figured they got the handheld SMT out of the way, and that the next mainline SMT would be on the PS3. But lo and behold, they threw it on the 3DS. At this point I wouldn't put it past Atlus to make P5 Vita exclusive.
I had always reasoned that it can't be ps3 since the ps4 is coming out this year, then I looked at releases and saw P3 coming out the same year as the ps3 did, so that shot that right out.
Only thing worrying it releasing another game after that with the same engine after a non backwards compatible system comes out.
Only thing worrying it releasing another game after that with the same engine after a non backwards compatible system comes out.
cj_iwakura
Member
Mainline SMT on a console was doomed since P3 hit it big. I knew that. Heck, I never even thought we'd get an SMT IV.
They threw us a bone, big time, all things considered.
cj_iwakura
Member
Damn same they couldn't put some subtitles on, well, every Persona closing song ever. Is it that hard, Atlus? Sega can do it.
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