I understand why they do it, but I still think they should have gotten someone else to voice Yu in the anime. It reminds me of this
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Persona Series Story & Spoilers, P4G Reflection, Persona 5 Speculation Inevitable
- Thread starter we.are.the.armada
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I understand why they do it, but I still think they should have gotten someone else to voice Yu in the anime. It reminds me of this
Yes, that quote seemed a little curious to me as well.
Also, Kanji being straight or gay is incidental. He likes Naoto, and it isn't because he thinks she's a boy, it's because something about her is alluring to him.
It's funny that the whole point of his characterization is to bring a person to the table that doesn't fit into any clearly defined sexual orientation, and here we are attempting to pin down whether he's gay, straight or bisexual.
Either get someone else to do Yu for future works (Arena, Anime, Golden, etc) or get someone else to do Adachi for Golden. One or the other. >.<;
PS3 and 360, fo' sho'.
Concur. It really bugged me.
I think they'd be best recasting Yu. JYB did his shouts fine, but he sounds all wrong when he's actually speaking normally.
buddha0991
Member
I don't think so
Isn't this a little nitpicking? Everyone thought Naoto was a boy and Kanji mistook Naoto's interest in himself as an attraction instead of an investigative interest. The moment is your standard definition of dramatic irony. We, the audience, know that Naoto is only looking into Kanji because she's investigating the murders (that's why you meet Naoto at the textile shop first before you see her interacting with Kanji). That's also why the game has Kanji talking to himself afterwards about "them both being guys but nevertheless he's interested in Kanji." It establishes the big misunderstanding and we, the audience, get to laugh at the situation.
It doesn't change the fact that Kanji was meeting with a boy who he thought liked him. In fact, the only way these jokes work is if Kanji has homosexual feelings. Otherwise, he'd have no reason to meet with Naoto and he wouldn't have those humours moments of chasing after the Investigation Team desperately trying to explain things "aren't what they seem!" Also, the other characters comment on Kanji and Naoto's interactions as very "peculiar." They never outright say it's an attraction but the intention of the designers is pretty obvious here.
I don't think that was the point of Kanji at all. Atlus' stated position is that it's left to fan interpretation whether he's gay or not - not that they were trying to make a character that broke sexual classifications. Which has been criticized as a cop-out.
I was speaking with my friend about it last night and have to agree with his opinion. It's probable that Atlus skirted Kanji's and Naoto's (original) issues probably to avoid undue controversy. Persona 4 is about a bunch of kids and the largest consumers of video games in Japan are kids. I think they were able to have a more clearly defined transgendered individual in Catherine since that game followed a group of adults. When Persona 3 first came State-side there was a lot of controversy over the teenagers shooting themselves in the head with guns. It seems plausible that there could have been similar backlash if they had an obvious gay kid in Persona 4.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
P4A kinda mentioned that Kanji was attracted to Naoto when she was a "guy". So I dunno. I say Kanji is Naotosexual.
It's pretty obvious he was attracted to Naoto from the beginning even until the revelation.
So yeah, Naotosexual.
It's pretty obvious he was attracted to Naoto from the beginning even until the revelation.
So yeah, Naotosexual.
Tiu Neo
Member
Yeah, pretty much. He doesn't care if she is man or woman, he just likes her
I think that kind of confused him, and that resulted on his shadow. I don't really think he put any tought on that BEFORE meeting Naoto.
meltingparappa
Member
The non-canon wrench in this speculation is that in P4A and the anime, he is clearly attracted to Yu (and maybe Akihiko).
I guess the official answer will forever be "Kanji is whatever you want him to be".
I guess the official answer will forever be "Kanji is whatever you want him to be".
The "evidence" (shadow dialogue, relationship with Naoto, date event, swimming in the river event etc.) would seem to suggest he's largely heterosexual, possibly bi
I disagree, Kanji is attracted to Naoto but is conflicted because he think's Naoto is a boy and is already suffering from issues related to traditional gender roles, the humour springs from the conflict between his attraction to what he thinks is a boy and his worries about what this means for his sexuality. Whether he's actually homosexual or not doesnt actually matter.
You don't think what?
buddha0991
Member
I like Yu's voice for some reason
Nothing was skirted in Naoto's case though. For whatever ambiguity there is in the Kanji debate, Naoto's storyline was very straightforward.
Well, I would argue that there's enough evidence to suggest, at the very least, there was some intention of making her transgendered during development. It's not really a coincidence that pretty much every character tackles sexual themes in one way or another.
But, yeah, it seems pretty clear at this point that canon Naoto is very much a girl. So, I concede it's a moot point.
Nope. Read Persona 4 Artworks. She was originally a man, but that's it.
cj_iwakura
Member
meltingparappa
Member
Well I'll be damned.
I should realllllllllly play Persona 2, but that encounter rate is so daunting.
Here's a picture for anyone interested.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well I'll be damned.
I should realllllllllly play Persona 2, but that encounter rate is so daunting.
Here's a picture for anyone interested.
It's really not THAT bad. You can negotiate your way through battles with a quickness if you get bored of fighting. The story is worth it.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, she never makes any mention of that in Batsu/EP.
I still need to get through P2. I was actually enjoying it when IS PSP came out, but my PSP's back lid kinda got unhinged and I got the typical "would you like to quit the game" issue where the PSP would assume that I opened the back lid, making my UMDs a pain in the ass to play. I bought a digital version in the last Atlus sale, so I'm good to go once I'm done with P4G. I also own the PS1 version of Eternal Punishment, so I'm good to actually play through both games.
The original game though... I bought the CE, but I wasn't enjoying it very much so I just stopped. Didn't help that nitpicks like the PSP's suspend not actually freezing the in-game clock kept putting me off.
The original game though... I bought the CE, but I wasn't enjoying it very much so I just stopped. Didn't help that nitpicks like the PSP's suspend not actually freezing the in-game clock kept putting me off.
cj_iwakura
Member
buddha0991
Member
Keep in mind, in the PSP versions, the encounter rate does seem slightly higher. A Persona with Estoma is your friend, and I feel both p2 games are absolutely worth it. My favorites, despite other things.
It's gonna feel a bit awkward to go from Innocent Sin PSP's slight mechanical improvements to Eternal Punishment PS1's pace, but I may as well since the latter's PSP version ain't coming.
Will keep in mind. I'm not sure how far I made it into Persona 1, but I pretty much gave up when I was starting to get into counters every minuscule amount of steps. I wasn't having much fun with a lower encouter rate, so I just moved on when it seemed to hike up for no particular reason.
I wonder if playing it on Vita does what the PSP's suspend couldn't...
Will keep in mind. I'm not sure how far I made it into Persona 1, but I pretty much gave up when I was starting to get into counters every minuscule amount of steps. I wasn't having much fun with a lower encouter rate, so I just moved on when it seemed to hike up for no particular reason.
I wonder if playing it on Vita does what the PSP's suspend couldn't...
buddha0991
Member
It's gonna feel a bit awkward to go from Innocent Sin PSP's slight mechanical improvements to Eternal Punishment PS1's pace, but I may as well since the latter's PSP version ain't coming.
Will keep in mind. I'm not sure how far I made it into Persona 1, but I pretty much gave up when I was starting to get into counters every minuscule amount of steps. I wasn't having much fun with a lower encouter rate, so I just moved on when it seemed to hike up for no particular reason.
I wonder if playing it on Vita does what the PSP's suspend couldn't...
I guess I am just one of the few people in existance who managed to enjoy every entry in the Persona series from 1 to 4 Arena...except Trinity Soul. Fuck Trinity Soul.
My enjoyment of the classic games (Persona 1, Innocent Sin, and Eternal Punishement) is hampered by my complete intolerance of the tarot card system. I take great joy in the fact that Atlus has shot the system in the head and toss it's dead body into a fire, never to be used again.... I hope. >_>;
Maybe I can enjoy it if I go back with a more open mind. There's just something about it that didn't quite click with me the same way P2 IS did, but maybe I can go back to it and play it now.
...I still need to subject myself to Trinity Soul. Everyone tells me how bad it is, but it's still a morbid curiosity.
It's fine in P4A where there's no Adachi.
But it seems like it would be tough to deal with in the anime dub, but I watched the subbed version on Hulu already anyway.
...I still need to subject myself to Trinity Soul. Everyone tells me how bad it is, but it's still a morbid curiosity.
It's not bad. It's not exactly good, but it's not bad. Despite being non-canonical, some elements of it have appeared in Persona 4 Arena such as Akihiko becoming a police officer, the Shadow Operatives, and the more extended details on the androids having hearts.
cj_iwakura
Member
P2 did have better tarot art, so there's that.
And boy, if you think P2 is bad, SMT1 would drive you insane. You get into fights almost every step.
buddha0991
Member
I think its bad. Not in a oh god this is terrible train wreck bad, but just sort of non intelligible, bland story bad.
I enjoyed some aspects of Trinity Soul. Specifically the non-flying-around-and-shooting-lasers-from-their-fingers aspects. The story was fucking gibberish, but whatever. Also Akihiko's design in Trinity Soul (Where Soejima was allowed to do his own thing) > Akihiko's design in Arena. Shame he acts nothing like Akihiko in it though.
It's that jaded detective archtype. TS' Akihiko was basically Dojima.
we.are.the.armada
Member
This is interesting, Inorigo, and I'd like to elaborate on this.
Imagine that outside of the "mainstream", we've got a demographic of varied RPG players. So out of however many millions of RPG players this demographic has, very few of them have played or even heard of the Persona games. There is no doubt that, for example, P4G is an amazing game that these people would love, as is, despite any "mainstream" aspects it has. One could argue that:
- P4G is already a step toward "mainstream" by streamlining gameplay systems
- P4G is already a step toward "mainstream" by extricating itself from established fiction
Alright, back to that demographic of varied RPG players that I was talking about. Some of these people are playing Final Fantasy games, Tales games, etc. Others are playing MMOs, CRPGs, and open worlds. They've never played Persona, they don't know why they should, and even if they did, they might not know where to start. Here is where I think that Atlus could either fuck up or break out:
- appeal: "globalization" or "cultural ambiguity" like Catherine; no honorifics, etc
- combat/dungeons: less passive approach, more player agency in progression, etc
Yeah, Atlus could really mess up Persona 5; furthermore, you'll always have a divide between the interest of newcomers and older fans. I personally think that more "mainstream" RPG players should enjoy the series, but I have no idea what would be the best way to deliver the experience.
buddha0991
Member
You could argue, and there are quite a few who do, that P3 and P4 were already moves to mainstream progressively.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Definitely.
So, I wonder, what is in store for us in Persona 5? Changes as big as the ones from P2 to P3? I was questioning something similar to this around the time that Final Fantasy VI came out in NA.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
The Velvet Room music plays in my head every single time I read this thread.
Every. Single. Time.
Every. Single. Time.
buddha0991
Member
I do think they could balance the difficulty better, the game as a whole feels too easy.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Here's my problems with P4:
- lame and tedious NPC dialogue triggers ("investigations" prior to entering a dungeon)
- needs more incentive to socialize beyond max ranks
- fetch quests that usually involve backtracking
buddha0991
Member
This is a really good post.
I don't remember the figures very well but if I'm not mistaken the Persona series, and specifically 4, have been Atlus' best selling to date. I'm a little concerned that this could lead to them toning down a lot of what makes their games so amazing in order to continue to expand the wider audience.
Difficulty is always a subject I'm fascinated with, partly because I'm one of the few that really enjoys rage inducing, blood pressure rising, unforgiving challenges (I really need to play Dark Souls). The one thing I always loved and laughed about these games is the SMT syndrome where you can get hit by an enemy advantage and then get a game over from a chance mudo hit.
But more than that, if you get in combat with a group of enemies that hit your weaknesses you can have what was once an easy stroll through a dungeon completely turn around and get wiped out.
I think Atlus' exploration of different difficulty levels is a good way to approach it with easy mode allowing unlimited revives (from what I've heard). I recognize that bringing in more fans is important for any community and wouldn't mind them keeping some of the unforgiving elements solely in the harder difficulties. However, P4Golden has me worried with all the extra changes and "balances" that they've added since all of them sound like they make the game easier across all difficulty levels. And my problem with most JRPGs is that without the challenge they just become mindless, menu driven chores as you hop from one cutscene to the next.
I'm really hoping that they switch up the series again. Persona 4 really was the culmination of most of the ideas that they brought in for Persona 3. I enjoy the dungeon crawler, press turn system and social link aspects but, honestly, I'd rather the series not continually rehash these elements.
My personal wish would be that, along with a move to a more mature cast of characters and setting (so they have more freedom to explore their mature themes) we get an update to the combat and gameplay elements as well.
buddha0991
Member
The Bomb Shelter in Persona 2 is the greatest dungeon. Ever.
and that's one of the reason why it is the best selling game ever for Atlus. It's very easy to access game.
I've been playing JRPG ever since FF3, and every JRPG I played basically become mindless menu driven chore once you over-level. (Turbo X button and battle is done within seconds) At least with Persona it gives you incentive to explore enemy's weakness.
Sadly I don't think Atlus never ever will release more mature characters in Persona series. High school setting just sells so well in Japan, no way in hell they will ignore that one. But yes I would like university setting, too. But at the same time I would be happy with ANY persona game.
It's absolute shite. The only redeeming quality is when Maya works out how to get out and her theme kicks in.
buddha0991
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU
This song should have played during that whole dungeon. I walked around that shit so many times
Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-coASIjkQ
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