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Pillars of Eternity by Obsidian Entertainment (Kickstarter) [Up: Teaser]

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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
How did I miss this until now?

This is pretty much my dream project. Obsidian developing their very own tactical fantasy RPG with a focus on a more mature story? Incredible. This has been what I've always wanted from Obsidian.

I'm in for $140.
 

Trigger

Member
Forget speech checks/chances entirely and just leave me with dialogue trees. I'd prefer using context and logic to forge diplomatic solutions.
 

Durante

Member
The $20 tier is now sold out.

Yeah, I'm still looking for a game that doesn't do the same. Every CRPG does the same stuff (even Avernum, which at least gives you a reason to be doing sidequests) every JRPG does it (Meteor coming to wipe out humanity? You killed my main squeeze ? I will wreck upon you terrible, final vengeance! Right after I play snowboarding video games!)
The only games I know which do it well do so by simply not having an urgent "main" quest.

hey I like speech and skill checks. apart from anything else they give weight to the choices I make about my character.
Same here.
 

mclem

Member
Is this freeware? Does it work on modern computers?

It's actually a comparatively recent title (well, from 2000). Amateur text adventures are still going, and pushing the text-based medium pretty hard. Photopia was an experimental work which focussed heavily on story.

And modern text adventures run on interpreters that can be ported to damn near anything. And they're generally free. Photopia definitely is.


Edit: Oh, unless you were talking about Trinity; no, that was commercial back in the day, and still needs to be purchased
 

patapuf

Member
hey I like speech and skill checks. apart from anything else they give weight to the choices I make about my character.

Skill checks are fine. Speech checks however cheapen the conversation aspect of the game imo. Having the "i win" conversation options with sufficient skill makes them boring because you know you can' fail/win from the get go.

I take intelligently designed speech trees over a speech skill i dump points into.
 
Skill checks are fine. Speech checks however cheapen the conversation aspect of the game imo. Having the "i win" conversation options with sufficient skill makes them boring because you know you can' fail/win from the get go.

I take intelligently designed speech trees over a speech skill i dump points into.

I think they should include speech checks, but without making it obvious. After all, if you are one ugly murderous brute motherfucker that should count against your diplomacy, even if you know what to say.
 
I'd love a reactive world where events progress even when you're off doing unrelated exploration or sidequests. It's great that you went into those catacombs and found a neat sword, but the bad guy killed the lord you were supposed to warn about a pending assassination plot.

Say you're chasing some character relevant to the main plot. As you're pursuing him, there's a burning building nearby, and you hear some kids inside or whatever. You could chase down the other character, get the info you needed and continue on your quest. Or, you can go help those kids, but then the other character escapes, and you end up in a dead end and have to find out other ways to investigate whatever the main plot is. Being a 'good guy' ends up being more hurtful to the player - you don't get any awesome loot, or anything. Instead you just made your quest a lot harder. That's what deciding to be 'good' should be, not being artificially rewarded by the game.

This sounds great in theory but in practice players will hate it and whine about. Fallout had this 99 day limit on finding the waterchip and that was the part of the game people complained about, that they could explore the world at their pace because they are constantly worried about the time limit. The first mod for that game was the remove time limit for the water chip and I think eventually an official patch was released and got rid of it.

If there is a possibility that going off exploring mind make you miss some part of the main plot, people will simply not explore for fear of missing it.
 
Skill checks are fine. Speech checks however cheapen the conversation aspect of the game imo. Having the "i win" conversation options with sufficient skill makes them boring because you know you can' fail/win from the get go.

I take intelligently designed speech trees over a speech skill i dump points into.

personally I don't feel that one precludes the other. the problem is that if you rely too much on the trees defining the parameters of success then it's possible for any character to game the system and always "win" once they know how. if you mix in speech checks then you make it so that only a character archetype with a focus on diplomacy can achieve diplomatic solutions, which is a very good thing.

if you don't have the checks then you get into a situation where a build which is primarily focused on hitting things with sticks can sweet-talk their way out of trouble instead of being forced to use the skills they've chosen. why have them choose skills at all if you're going to make them pointless?
 

patapuf

Member
This sounds great in theory but in practice players will hate it and whine about. Fallout had this 99 day limit on finding the waterchip and that was the part of the game people complained about, that they could explore the world at their pace because they are constantly worried about the time limit. The first mod for that game was the remove time limit for the water chip and I think eventually an official patch was released and got rid of it.

If there is a possibility that going off exploring mind make you miss some part of the main plot, people will simply not explore for fear of missing it.

That's why i like a "hardcore" option for games like it exists in new vegas. Have one option in the game for people that want to take at their own pace and one option for people that like hard limits and having to manage your rescources (including time) carefully.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Speech checks are fine, but should still be camouflaged. Have your checks happen behind the scenes, with no bullshit color coding, no obvious sudden 5th choice of dialog when all game it's only been 4 (or mix up the responses so you can't auto cruise on choosing your words. If your skill isn't high enough, the responses simply don't appear - even graying out the choices show that you can go grind a level or two and come back and auto win. Maybe not every character can be reasoned with, either.
 

wrowa

Member
I always wished for an RPG that allocates attribute points dynamically based on the actions of the player. So, that instead of allocating a bunch of points to "speech" (or any other stat) in the beginning, the game allocates these points automatically if you keep on searching for diplomatic ways to solve a problem etc.

I always kind of disliked the D&D-like way of creating the character and his attributes at the very beginning of the game. It kind of goes against the point of role-playing imo. I'd prefer it to start as a "blank" character that's being formed while you play by the actions you take. I think it's kinda lame to specify at the very beginning that you want to be the "BRUTE DUMB AXE WARRIOR" or whatever.

And as a disclaimer, I absolutely don't want games where every character can become a universal super hero who's good at everyhing, in case that that's what some people might read into this.


Edit: This approach would also make the first time to play a game easier, since I often don't know what kind of character is fun to play in a game before I've started playing. Or what stats are actually important and which a waste of time. Too bad that I have to decide before I actually ever started playing!
 

Herla

Member
Forget speech checks/chances entirely and just leave me with dialogue trees. I'd prefer using context and logic to forge diplomatic solutions.

Human Revolution's "social" boss fights kinda did this, and it was incredible.

Also I hated in Torment when, as a mage, it was always obvious what the correct answer to everything was. Oh, a puzzle? Let me just select the longest dialogue choice available...
 

Derrick01

Banned
Put me in the camp that either wants speech checks gone or hidden in an intelligent way. Honestly I'd like the Alpha Protocol system expanded to work in the more complex dialog trees that these types of games have but I'm not exactly sure how you'd do it. It should be a nice mix of intelligent guesswork based on previous responses and reactions by known NPCs (and the type of personality they have) and a test to see how you've been paying attention to past and current conversations.
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
I always wished for an RPG that allocates attribute points dynamically based on the actions of the player. So, that instead of allocating a bunch of points to "speech" (or any other stat) in the beginning, the game allocates these points automatically if you keep on searching for diplomatic ways to solve a problem etc.

Elder Scrolls does this, but it's hard to pull off- I believe in some ES games if you run around a lot you end up gimping yourself in combat, for example.
 

Miker

Member
I always wished for an RPG that allocates attribute points dynamically based on the actions of the player. So, that instead of allocating a bunch of points to "speech" (or any other stat) in the beginning, the game allocates these points automatically if you keep on searching for diplomatic ways to solve a problem etc.

I always kind of disliked the D&D-like way of creating the character and his attributes at the very beginning of the game. It kind of goes against the point of role-playing imo. I'd prefer it to start as a "blank" character that's being formed while you play by the actions you take. I think it's kinda lame to specify at the very beginning that you want to be the "BRUTE DUMB AXE WARRIOR" or whatever.

And as a disclaimer, I absolutely don't want games where every character can become a universal super hero who's good at anything, in case that that's what some people might read into this.

Alpha Protocol kind of does that by giving you small little perks all game long based on your actions.
 

patapuf

Member
personally I don't feel that one precludes the other. the problem is that if you rely too much on the trees defining the parameters of success then it's possible for any character to game the system and always "win" once they know how. if you mix in speech checks then you make it so that only a character archetype with a focus on diplomacy can achieve diplomatic solutions, which is a very good thing.

if you don't have the checks then you get into a situation where a build which is primarily focused on hitting things with sticks can sweet-talk their way out of trouble instead of being forced to use the skills they've chosen. why have them choose skills at all if you're going to make them pointless?

One way to limit this is to not always have an option that "wins" but choices, for example you could use certain conversations to set up situations where you can use your non combat skills. Other ways to limit it is to tie some possible responses to skills other than a "speech" skill, like different fields of knowledge of the character. Lastly non violent solution should not always mean you can sweet talk out of something.

I just feel that talking to people should be part of a puzzle to resolve a situation. It means you have to pay attention to everything an NPC says and strategize around it instead of just choosing the obviously "best" option.

It's possible to balance the game around not having a speech skill at all.
 

Trigger

Member
Human Revolution's "social" boss fights kinda did this, and it was incredible.

Also I hated in Torment when, as a mage, it was always obvious what the correct answer to everything was. Oh, a puzzle? Let me just select the longest dialogue choice available...

Human Revolution really did a good job of that. Alpha Protocol was also what I had in mind when I made my statement. I responded to characters based on what I knew of them and if I got the desired result it wasn't because my stats were high.
 

Almighty

Member
Elder Scrolls does this, but it's hard to pull off- I believe in some ES games if you run around a lot you end up gimping yourself in combat, for example.

Darklands pulled off the learn by doing system much better. Elder Scrolls tied it up into gaining levels that just made it so awful. Made it so you were actually hurting yourself a little or a lot if you picked to have skills you had bonuses in as your major and minor skills. Among other things. Though Skyrim did improve on that by getting rid of the major and minor. I forgot about that. That is one thing I think Skyrim did better then any of the previous games.
 

Radogol

Member
Original Fallouts did speech checks well - speech skill influenced options weren't highlighted in any way. You still had to use your judgement in order to determine which response was the most beneficial. You could still fail the check if the roll was against you though.

Come to think of it, I believe high intelligence added dialogue options while high speech increased your chance of convincing someone. Unless I'm mistaken, even the most verbose, well put arguments could be dismissed if your speech wasn't high enough.

EDIT: The point is, you never knew if an option was a dud or if it could work if you had higher speech, and even then, how much higher. There were no "speech check failed" messages.
 

SerRodrik

Member
Speech checks are fine, but should still be camouflaged. Have your checks happen behind the scenes, with no bullshit color coding, no obvious sudden 5th choice of dialog when all game it's only been 4 (or mix up the responses so you can't auto cruise on choosing your words. If your skill isn't high enough, the responses simply don't appear - even graying out the choices show that you can go grind a level or two and come back and auto win. Maybe not every character can be reasoned with, either.

I seem to remember that's how it worked in Arcanum. There were never highlighted speech checks with percentages by them or something, they were listed like any other dialogue options, and when you pick them the skill check occurs behind the scenes to decide whether or not it succeeds. That way there isn't just a win button, but you can still put points into a smooth talker type character.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Forget speech checks/chances entirely and just leave me with dialogue trees. I'd prefer using context and logic to forge diplomatic solutions.

No. There needs to be a way to tie dialogue to character via rpg mechanic. Otherwise you have an adventure game.
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
It's just a matter of balancing the game right. There's enough RPG's without a speech skill.

There are, but I personally like being able to put points in diplomacy over combat as a choice for my character. Obviously picking the right dialogue choices based on your reading of the person you're talking to should be important, perhaps even more important, but stats should matter to- the same as with combat.
 
One way to limit this is to not always have an option that "wins" but choices, for example you could use certain conversations to set up situations where you can use your non combat skills. Other ways to limit it is to tie some possible responses to skills other than a "speech" skill, like different fields of knowledge of the character. Lastly non violent solution should not always mean you can sweet talk out of something.

okay now I see where you're coming from and I tend to agree. of all the games, dark souls actually does this quite well. there are a number of experiences the player can only have under certain circumstances which are never clearly explained, but are always thematically resonant.
 

adixon

Member
Darklands pulled off the learn by doing system much better. Elder Scrolls tied it up into gaining levels that just made it so awful. Made it so you were actually hurting yourself a little or a lot if you picked to have skills you had bonuses in as your major and minor skills. Among other things.

Yep, Darklands was miles beyond any recent game I can think of in its skill-based character building approach. The character creation in that game was also pretty brilliant... you can take on more professions, but your character gets older for each profession you add! And then they (slowly) keep aging throughout the game, providing a built-in balance system to characters maxing out their skills. And beyond that, the professions really gave you sense of the game world and got your imagination going before you even set foot in it!

The Elder Scrolls games definitely don't do leveling well. They're actually often amazingly bad. Way too transparent as power fantasy fulfillment, rather than giving you a sense of earning your progression. And so many gotchas it sometimes seems hard to imagine a worse leveling system than, say, Oblivion.
 

patapuf

Member
There are, but I personally like being able to put points in diplomacy over combat as a choice for my character. Obviously picking the right dialogue choices based on your reading of the person you're talking to should be important, perhaps even more important, but stats should matter to- the same as with combat.

Of course how much stats should affect conversations is mostly a matter of taste. I just feel that the opposite of a combat oriented character is not a "diplomatic" character but a character that uses non combat skills, that implies a lot more than just conversations.

Which is why i don't feel a speech skill is necessary.
 

Radogol

Member
It's just a matter of balancing the game right. There's enough RPG's without a speech skill.

Most of them are of the hack and slash variety, I'm afraid.

But okay, confession time. If I were to revise SPECIAL for Fallout 4, I'd get rid of the speech skill. However, I'd still allow you to play as a non-lethal negotiator, as it's my favorite way of playing 1, 2 and New Vegas. How would I achieve this?

By putting a lot of other skill checks into dialogues, especially those related to underutilized skills. Use science to convince a scientist, propose a better way of approach with the journeyman skill or tell someone how to fix their engine with repair. Charisma, which is good for nothing post-Bethesda, would lower the speech challenge level, so with high CHA, you can successfully discuss some topics even with very little knowledge of them.

I'm a bit tipsy and writing fast, hence my English sucks. Sorry!

EDIT: Heh, your new post seems to imply that we actually agree.
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
Of course how much stats should affect conversations is mostly a matter of taste. I just feel that the opposite of a combat oriented character is not a "diplomatic" character but a character that uses non combat skills, that implies a lot more than just conversations.

Which is why i don't feel a speech skill is necessary.

That's a fair argument, but like there's many shades of combat, I feel there should be many shades in non-combat, including the silver-tongued specialist. But yeah, up to personal taste, and whichever way Obsidian choose I trust them at least to deliver in that area.
 

Dresden

Member
I prefer stats for speech stuff

18 wisdom or int should get me interesting options

18 charisma should drop underwear

1 int should mean i no mumble

It does hinge on a game having a system that forces you to skimp on stat distribution, but it's not like that hard to balance.
 
I kind of see karma as being an extremely primitive version of what patapuf is describing. if you had other (preferably hidden) stats which you could nurture through intuitive behavioural actions then speech wouldn't be needed at all. like, say reading newspapers increased your character's awareness of current affairs, making them more able to speak intelligently and influence others in conversations about those topics because they speak authoritatively about them.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Of course how much stats should affect conversations is mostly a matter of taste. I just feel that the opposite of a combat oriented character is not a "diplomatic" character but a character that uses non combat skills, that implies a lot more than just conversations.

Which is why i don't feel a speech skill is necessary.

But speech is undoubtedly an inextricable part of party CRPGs. There is no way around it. So, your character choices must reflect that. If you have stats at all, missing intellectual components leads to Skyrim levels of streamlining. 'Oh, this isn't that important. Get rid of it.'

I see what you're saying in that speech can't be the only thing that intellectual stats don't all have to translate to speech, but the solution is most certainly not to remove that piece of it. It's a false dichotomy that you can't have all 3 - combat, speech and outside of either stats reflections.

For instance, a higher wisdom skill translating to you noticing small details that charismatic (speech heavy) characters wouldn't see and warrior types not really giving a shit about.
 
What about RPGs that don't have a primary speech skill, yet unlocked abilities give speech perks?

Like the Monster Friend tree has a +2 Speech with Orcs type deal.
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
I kind of see karma as being an extremely primitive version of what patapuf is describing. if you had other (preferably hidden) stats which you could nurture through intuitive behavioural actions then speech wouldn't be needed at all. like, say reading newspapers increased your character's awareness of current affairs, making them more able to speak intelligently and influence others in conversations about those topics because they speak authoritatively about them.

Isn't that just basically an extension or slightly more hidden system of a dossier/file/conversation etc. on someone that having been read, sets a flag for that part of the conversation to show up?

The only "nurtured" behavior I can think of off-hand is Alpha Protocol's system in which repeated Bourne/Bond/Bauer responses could actually make you able to influence people in conversations even if it normally wouldn't, given your growing reputation combined with the strong emphasis on your stance/decision making process.

Otherwise, behavioral actions are quite hard to balance around, especially if they're hidden. Gameplay systems like combat are differen, they're part of the reason why Oblivion and Skyrim handled it so bluntly. But conversations/smaller stuff, people tend to either not notice or still game the system as much as they can.
 

Herla

Member
No. There needs to be a way to tie dialogue to character via rpg mechanic. Otherwise you have an adventure game.

Skill checks are absolutely fine and HAVE to be in the game.

What I don't want is win buttons. I shouldn't be able to intimidate everyone, and I shouldn't know whether I'm about to fail a check or not. I want consequences for failing too (I doubt intimidating a guard would be a safe thing to do).
 

patapuf

Member
But speech is undoubtedly an inextricable part of party CRPGs. There is no way around it. So, your character choices must reflect that. If you have stats at all, missing intellectual components leads to Skyrim levels of streamlining. 'Oh, this isn't that important. Get rid of it.'

I see what you're saying in that speech can't be the only thing that intellectual stats don't all have to translate to speech, but the solution is most certainly not to remove that piece of it. It's a false dichotomy that you can't have all 3 - combat, speech and outside of either stats reflections.

For instance, a higher wisdom skill translating to you noticing small details that charismatic (speech heavy) characters wouldn't see and warrior types not really giving a shit about.

I'm not saying get rid of intellectual components, i'm saying to implement them differently. The Speech skill is something i've always felt DnD-system do very clumsily. The things you can make people do with a successful speech check often breaks my immersion.

A conversation should be like a combat situation: you have to use different skills to come to a result. There's too many aspects to a conversation to simply rule them all into a single skill. Also different persons will behave differently during conversations, based on their knowledge/ experience/attitude, which can lead to different results. A speech skill gets rid of that in favor of a "right" way to do things.

Talking is gameplay! It should have gameplay systems with just as much depth as combat :p And you should be able to fail despite your high stats, just like in combat.
 

kiunchbb

www.dictionary.com
Skill checks are absolutely fine and HAVE to be in the game.

What I don't want is win buttons. I shouldn't be able to intimidate everyone, and I shouldn't know whether I'm about to fail a check or not. I want consequences for failing too (I doubt intimidating a guard would be a safe thing to do).

"Win" button might sounds bad in other game elements, but it is fine in dialogue. In roleplaying game you suppose to "role-play" that character, making choices that fit the character that you made, not the one that you think will "win" you the game.
 

Almighty

Member
The prefect system in my opinion would be to pretty much expand on what they did with Alpha Protocol.

From that interview I previously linked

Chris Avellone said:
The speech path should present more than a skill check challenge - there needs to be some other obstacle associated with it. I usually veer toward exploring conversations (asking about back history, reading lore, discovering evidence to a criminal case), exploring the environment (discovering an enemy encampment, learning a secret path into a fortress, discovering a rival caravan is already sending an emissary to scout a new trade route), or being able to draw logical connections between two topics... as an example, without it being given as a quest objective, realizing that the local historian who's obsessed with the Montaine family tree would be interested to learn of an exiled Montaine living in a remote city, and then returning to tell the historian that is a simplistic example of paying enough attention to a conversation and its topics and remembering who might be interested in that information... but again, this involves the player remembering and knowing who to speak to next. We sometimes do this within a dialogue tree - if a player has enough presence of mind to return to a previously-asked dialogue node once they've obtained information learned from a later node is an example of a speech-based challenge.

We did something a little different with the Fallout 3 pen-and-paper game and also with Alpha Protocol - in the Fallout PNP game, we allowed players with a high Speech to gain a little mini-dossier psychology profile of the temperament and the psychology of the person they were speaking to either by purchasing them or speaking to them for X period of time - what the NPC's triggers were, what they were uneasy about, what they got angry about, etc, and then once the player had that information, then they would attempt to use those triggers (without the need for a speech check) to manipulate a situation. As an example, when we were playing Boulder in Fallout PNP, Josh Sawyer's character Arcade got a dossier on the leader of the Boulder Dome, enough to realize that the leader would almost always refuse any request or become unreasonably angry if a comment was phrased as a challenge to his authority or any hint that he was managing the situation improperly - but almost any other comment that built up the leader's skill as a manager or drew in a compliment about the progress he made would almost always generate a favorable response, and then Josh could choose how he wanted the target to respond by structuring his comments and debates accordingly. If he wanted to make the leader mad and lose face in front of his followers, he knew how to do it - if he wanted to make the leader agree to a course of action, he knew how to do that, too, but there wasn't a "speech check" to win the conversation, only hints on how to manipulate it. Alpha Protocol did this a bit without a speech skill - if you gathered enough info on an opponent (intel), it began to give you a picture as to what attitudes (aggressive, suave, professional) and mission approach (violent, stealth, diplomatic) they respected and what they didn't, and the player could use that to navigate the conversation to achieve a desired result, even if that result was something that might seem unfavorable at first, like making the person angry.

Make it so you actually can use information that you previously collect via various means to find out the best way to manipulate a particular character to what ever end you wanted. Or opening up new dialog paths. It doesn't mean you don't have to get rid of the speech check, but it would help to make it less of a push to win button.

It would also allow more outcomes. Sometimes pissing the guy off instead of being all buddy buddy could be more beneficial for you.
 

Herla

Member
"Win" button might sounds bad in other game elements, but it is fine in dialogue. In roleplaying game you suppose to "role-play" that character, making choices that fit the character that you made, not the one that you think will "win" you the game.

I agree, but look at Planescape Torment.
It's pretty much universally known that if you don't play the game as a mage you miss a lot of content (dialogue choices, mostly) but, as the result of that, your wisdom/intelligence is so high that you always get the answer to every riddle as the first dialogue choice.
Sure, the character is supposed to know that if he's built to be that smart, but what's the point of riddles then?

Stats/skills should give you more choices, not better ones. And not every choice you gain because of a skill should be beneficial in every possible situation.
 
Isn't that just basically an extension or slightly more hidden system of a dossier/file/conversation etc. on someone that having been read, sets a flag for that part of the conversation to show up?

The only "nurtured" behavior I can think of off-hand is Alpha Protocol's system in which repeated Bourne/Bond/Bauer responses could actually make you able to influence people in conversations even if it normally wouldn't, given your growing reputation combined with the strong emphasis on your stance/decision making process.

Otherwise, behavioral actions are quite hard to balance around, especially if they're hidden. Gameplay systems like combat are differen, they're part of the reason why Oblivion and Skyrim handled it so bluntly. But conversations/smaller stuff, people tend to either not notice or still game the system as much as they can.

pretty much, but I'd like to see more games go down that path. regarding people not noticing or trying to game the system, I think the point is that people who enjoy that side of the game would notice, and keeping the exact requirements for things hidden makes it a lot harder to game.

alpha protocol is a great example, if you read the ot there are a lot of moments where people stumbled into a totally new scenario and weren't really sure how they got there because the conditions required for opening that scenario up were hidden. as long as the result is something appropriate to the character being roleplayed I think that's pretty nifty.
 

Almighty

Member
Yep, Darklands was miles beyond any recent game I can think of in its skill-based character building approach. The character creation in that game was also pretty brilliant... you can take on more professions, but your character gets older for each profession you add! And then they (slowly) keep aging throughout the game, providing a built-in balance system to characters maxing out their skills. And beyond that, the professions really gave you sense of the game world and got your imagination going before you even set foot in it!

Nothing has managed to top it in the what almost two decades since it came out. I would probably die of a heart attack if Obsidian announced a character system similar to Darklands for this game. Personally I think Obsidian should emulate Darklands in that respect. On the subject of Darklands. That game also had a real time with pause combat system I didn't hate. As unlike most games that use that system it wasn't trying to squeeze a turn based system into it. It was as far as i know designed for RtwP from the very start. Obsidian should take a look at that game when designing their system.
 

Grayman

Member
Well if anyone can pull it off it would be Avellone and the others at Obsidian.

As for random chance I hope it is a thing of the past. Something that was just a hold over from pen and paper. Mostly because I would end up save scumming in those system till I got a successful roll.(I am weak like that) I prefer FNV system where either you had enough for you didn't. That would actually force me to find another path.

In a perfect world they would do what Avellone talked about in that interview and make it so you actually had to do some work to pull off the diplomatic route. As someone who plays usually as "sniper diplomat"(or equivalent) I think it would really help make the game better.
I did not always like the comedy option fail dialogs in FNV "[Medicine 24/25]he looks dead jim." but sometimes there was great stratification of the percentage based skills building for information in an investigation. Investigate the dead body quest is a shining point where every couple points of medicine gives the good natured doctor character more information.

Diplomatic work is a better system than relying only on character sheet info. Given that Obsidian is making their own RPG ruleset for this game they will probably make the diplomatic skills something that just works well for their storytelling and is not tied to the legacy of dice rolls.
 
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