How true is this? I'm in the exact same boat as dropbear and I'd feel a little silly skipping out on 120hz for next gen unless this was indeed the case
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
How true is this? I'm in the exact same boat as dropbear and I'd feel a little silly skipping out on 120hz for next gen unless this was indeed the case
I think it's false. Maybe I'm wrong. Don't the 3D TVs do 120?
FairXchange
Member
It's true in my experience. While turning on motion enhancing 'frame interpolation' aka 120hz has a smoothing effect for motion, it also adds unwanted effects for gaming varying from input lag to artifacts and generally odd visual phenomena.
My experience with it for a game like Borderlands 2 was positive as it added a layer of smoothness and realistic motion to everything, for games like Halo 4 it was terrible because it introduced artifacts and other visual oddities.
I play on a plasma now with no frame interpolation, but motion looks very smooth and natural because motion blur is not a problem with plasma screens. LCD's introduce frame interpolation or '120hz' to combat motion blur, but the result is the 'soap opera' effect which is becoming relatively embraced by people. It depends on if you like that effect, as well. I personally found it distracting, and prefer the presumably more natural motion delivered through plasma.
At this point it comes down to whether you decide to buy a 120hz/240hz LED TV or a Plasma (though some new plasmas come with 'motion enhancing' settings to match the soap opera effect on LEDs). I wouldn't recommend getting a standard LCD screen at this stage in the game.
He's right. The TV can refresh its screen at 120hz, but it cannot take in a 1080p 120hz input. And interpolation does smooth things out, but adds a lot of input lag.
Thanks for useful info guys. Looks like I'll be sticking to 60hz for my next purchase.
Samsung UN40EH5300 40-Inch 1080p LED HDTV
- 26ms of input lag in the lag database
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0074FGR74/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Pretty much the best deal I've found so far. Can anyone comment on this set?
Edit - I've also found that I can get this set for $400 at an openbox warehouse. It's rated at 35ms of input lag which receives a "great" status in the Input Lag Database.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006U1VGBA/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Can anyone confirm if 35ms of lag is indeed negligible? Would the difference between 26ms and 35ms be very noticeable?
Thanks!
Samsung UN40EH5300 40-Inch 1080p LED HDTV
- 26ms of input lag in the lag database
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0074FGR74/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Pretty much the best deal I've found so far. Can anyone comment on this set?
Edit - I've also found that I can get this set for $400 at an openbox warehouse. It's rated at 35ms of input lag which receives a "great" status in the Input Lag Database.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006U1VGBA/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Can anyone confirm if 35ms of lag is indeed negligible? Would the difference between 26ms and 35ms be very noticeable?
Thanks!
All plasma make some humming noise. Some of them make loud humming, some are quiet and some doesn't make any hum noise. My Samsung plasma (E8000) doesn't make any humming noise.
Thanks for your insight.
That said, if I am looking for more natural-looking motion (and not the "soap opera" effect, which I too find distracting), would I be better off going with a 60hz 1080p LED TV for next-gen consoles? Of course, that's assuming I don't go with a plasma.
FairXchange
Member
I'd still recommend buying a 120/240hz set, as they all come with the option to turn motion enhancement off. If you're experiencing undesired effects from the frame interpolation, you can turn it down or off. Turning it on for single player games where input lag is less important can produce a good-looking effect (in Borderlands 2 and especially Battlefield 3 everything that moved looked very impressive), for MP it can cause issues because you'll want to be as responsive as possible. This is a case where you'll want to test it out perhaps before buying, I had a 120hz set and must admit that there were some moments where I liked to have it on, and others where it absolutely needed to be off. It all depends on the game, and what type of image the effect ends up producing. With many next gen games set at 60fps, I'd like to see how the frame interpolation works in relation to these games.
My recommendation ultimately might be a relatively good-rated LED with 120hz, some sets from LG strike a balance between cost and quality. Samsung are also a good brand but price begins to climb up, Sony is relatively more expensive but they've been making great sets lately. It all depends on budget. I needed the best picture (colour, blacks, shadows, motion) for the best price, so I went with Panasonic plasma for my needs. My biggest pieces of advice for a screen are make you get a big enough size (yes, size matters!) and make sure your screen has accurate black levels/contrast. A screen that makes dark scenes look greyed-over and blacks a shade of grey really grates on you over time. Once you see a set produce beautiful inky blacks, you won't go back.
andregnreis
Member
Soooo what does this actually mean? "Clear Motion Rate 120Hz." ... higher is usually better? Im reading the posts but its kinda complicated haha.
Basically when it is enabled it makes the picture look smoother. Yes the higher the number the better. Personally I have a Samsung with a 240hz refresh rate and it's terrible for gaming. I much prefer to game on my 23'' LED.
I cannot in good faith recommend a LCD for big screen gaming unless you go with the newer Sony sets which have very little input lag.
andregnreis
Member
Thanks. I live in Brazil so we mostly only have Tvs with 240hz, 120hz or 60hz. Is the 120hz good for gaming?
On a tv for gaming the lower the Hz the better. In this case for gaming, 60hz. For regular tv viewing the hz rate can make the picture look better in motion. Some like it and some don't. When you have it enabled for gaming though all it does is add a bunch of input lag.
Basically if you just want a gaming LCD, the less features the better. All the post processing effects etc add a bunch of lag that makes games almost unplayable imo. Even in game mode which I use on my LCD.
There are true 120hz LCD monitors, but no TV's. I think 27" is the largest true 120hz display you can get.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I'm still on the fence between the Panny ST60 or S60. ST has more features and is higher rated, S has far less input lag and is much more inexpensive (no 3D).
I'm not buying until November or so, so I have a bit to decide.
I'm not buying until November or so, so I have a bit to decide.
TheLegendary
Member
Plasma is always the answer over LCD if you can afford it. I did pick up a 60hz barebones LED 40" Samsung in the 5000 series last year which was really a great value for the $300 I spent. Image quality is really impressive, and the blacks were some of the best for an LED (at the lower end range at least), but at times the motion blur is rough.
Probably will get a new Plasma this year for the new consoles unless OLED prices really come down
Probably will get a new Plasma this year for the new consoles unless OLED prices really come down
Polioliolio
Member
What's the definitive big monitor/tv with the absolute minimum input lag possible?
I don't watch television, so any screen with any kind of noticeable lag is going to be a problem. Input lag is a HUGE problem on my friend's televisions.. tried playing Rhythm Heaven and it was impossible..
I don't watch television, so any screen with any kind of noticeable lag is going to be a problem. Input lag is a HUGE problem on my friend's televisions.. tried playing Rhythm Heaven and it was impossible..
FairXchange
Member
The general consensus is that the ST60 is the better TV for everything except gaming as it has noticeable input lag. I highly recommend the S60 for the amazing screen performance, low input lag, and most importantly that price! Only condition is that you need to be able to control the light in the room if you want the most out of the screen's performance. I have black-out shades on my window in my room, so I covered that problem.
I'll look up some of the LED TVs in that size range later tonight, but for now I'll recommend trying to see if stores in your region have the 42S60 from Panasonic. It's the same TV mentioned in my previous posts, so issues like bright room viewing arise, but the overall screen performance in the right settings for the price is excellent. It has top marks from CNET, who I go to for my tech reviews typically.
CNET wrote a recent article on input lag for gaming, it's a great read and they ultimately make a list of the most recent TVs with the absolute best input lag. http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/
I think anything from 16ms (excellent) to 35 (suitable) is supposed to be perfect for gaming. Some sets have higher input lag because of how they implement frame interpolation (120hz settings, etc), image processing, etc. It looks like the recent Sony sets have some the lowest input lag for big screen gaming.
bishopcruz
Member
Amazon is having a gread deal on the Vizio E500d-A0 3dtv. Seems like it's a decent enough set from what I have found online. Anyone here have one or heard about them at all. Any idea on the input lag
My next ones would be the Panny plasmas, but from what I heard the 3d one has bad input lag, and that kinda sucks. Do all 3d TVs have worse input lag?
My next ones would be the Panny plasmas, but from what I heard the 3d one has bad input lag, and that kinda sucks. Do all 3d TVs have worse input lag?
I had the same choice and went with the S60. ST60 was just too much lag. The reason I went away from LCD was to get better responsiveness. But the picture is very much garbage in garbage out. Bluray looks great, but low bit rate video streaming looks much worse than on my LCD
Plasma is not always the answer, and what do you mean if you can afford it? Plasmas are cheaper than LCDs.
I finally saw a 4k tv at Bestbuy.
Now I dont want a regular TV, but I'm too broke anyways
Yep I did the same too. They had 1080p content on the 85'' version and it looked really good. That scaler must be boss. I guess it should be for $25,000.
ST isn't more expensive because of 3D...
ST has deeper blacks, better filter (bright room condition), faster motion processing...
High end Plasma panels are still $2000 and up. $4000 is you're talking ZT60. Not everyone can drop that kind of coin on a TV.
subtleglitch
Neo Member
So I decided to peruse this thread, and I've noticed that a majority of people are suggesting plasma as the choice for gaming. I know that certainly wasn't the case a few years ago..
http://www.lg.com/au/tvs/lg-47LM8600-lcd-tv
This was the TV my bf and I purchased last year, and it's 200hz and for the most part I feel as though it's been a pretty solid TV. We didn't pay what they advertised there though (We got it for about $1500).
Do you think it's a good TV, or is there a plasma with very similar features/brand. I'm mainly worried about image burn in with plasma's, and I always thought they were best viewed for sports?
Thanks
http://www.lg.com/au/tvs/lg-47LM8600-lcd-tv
This was the TV my bf and I purchased last year, and it's 200hz and for the most part I feel as though it's been a pretty solid TV. We didn't pay what they advertised there though (We got it for about $1500).
Do you think it's a good TV, or is there a plasma with very similar features/brand. I'm mainly worried about image burn in with plasma's, and I always thought they were best viewed for sports?
Thanks
vakarian32
Member
I bought the same TV about 6 months ago and haven't noticed anything like that. How loud is it?
Reposting for some answers....
So my 42 in Toshiba HDMI ports packed it in (they just jitter like crazy). Component looks fine but need to upgrade for new consoles anyways.
What's a good 55 in gaming (and movie watching tv) for under $1000...
Sounds like plasma might be the way to go.... Though there was nice 3D Led at Costco for 750 that seemed nice...
So my 42 in Toshiba HDMI ports packed it in (they just jitter like crazy). Component looks fine but need to upgrade for new consoles anyways.
What's a good 55 in gaming (and movie watching tv) for under $1000...
Sounds like plasma might be the way to go.... Though there was nice 3D Led at Costco for 750 that seemed nice...
According to displaylag.com, the Sony 55" KDL-55W802A with 17ms of lag.
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/
VanquishUK
Member
So I'm looking for a 24-27 inch monitor for next-gen console gaming. Anyone have any suggestions/recommendations? Thank you.
Does someone know why the Samsung UE40D6000 is so... awful? I'm going to assume this counts for the entire D6xxx line, since we have a D6150 or something.
I mean, the colours or input lag don't mind me that much, but it's when the colors move around when this set falls short. I'm talking about characters walking around a scene and you can kinda see some blur or trail. Or when a character with black hair moves around, it doesn't move fast enough.
I had the same problem on my samsung UE37D5000. Problem is, I don't have any material to compare with since my previous tv was a CRT TV (we only have a HD tv since late 2011)
Just wondering if these models are just bad or I'm too used to the fluid/smooth colors of a CRT TV.
It's like when there's a coca cola advertisement on a red background and the white bottle suddenly goes from the right to the lift, and you can see the white pixels shake as they move.
I mean, the colours or input lag don't mind me that much, but it's when the colors move around when this set falls short. I'm talking about characters walking around a scene and you can kinda see some blur or trail. Or when a character with black hair moves around, it doesn't move fast enough.
I had the same problem on my samsung UE37D5000. Problem is, I don't have any material to compare with since my previous tv was a CRT TV (we only have a HD tv since late 2011)
Just wondering if these models are just bad or I'm too used to the fluid/smooth colors of a CRT TV.
It's like when there's a coca cola advertisement on a red background and the white bottle suddenly goes from the right to the lift, and you can see the white pixels shake as they move.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Mine did the same and I returned it. It was unbearable, they all do it.
Get a Panasonic - it has faaaaaaaaaar less noise than the Samsung.
Thanks for all of your advice in this thread.
For personal reasons, my preference right now is the best 40" LED (or LCD, if better) TV for gaming I can find. I've seen some 39" sets as well, and wouldn't object to that size.
I hate to be the guy who refuses to help himself, but I really have done a considerable amount of searching, and, like I'm sure most people in this thread know, TV shopping can drive you in circles if you let it. That said, is there any way you can recommend a specific 40" LED set that would be good for gaming? As stated above, my budget is flexible.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone here have experience with LG plasmas? I've been on the hunt for the discontinued 42" or 46" Panasonic plasmas but they're either sold out or don't ship to where I live. Really don't want anything bigger and of course 1080p. Local shop has one last 46" 1080 LG plasma for $650 but I've heard literally nothing bout LG's stuff
bishopcruz
Member
Gonna ask again on the Vizio E500d-A0 3dtv. Set looks pretty good, though there isn't a whole lot of info on it. I know they are a cheaper brand but everything I have read is that you get a lot for your money, and I really want some sort of 3d. Since the Panny ST60 is apparently input lag hell, I don't have a lot of options at 50 inch sub $1000.
Any advice?
Any advice?
AppleSmack
Banned
I bought a 50" LG Plasma for $650 on sale. Fantastic picture quality. Panasonic is way overpriced and simply not worth it if you just want a normal HDTV without any of that SMART TV or 3D garbage.
FairXchange
Member
I definitely see the merits in going with LED, they have great bright room performance, and also don't have the burn-in issues that some Plasma sets may have.
My best recommendation for a good performing LED for a price that isn't unreasonable is the Philips 42PFL5907/F7. I recommend this set because it is said to have good performance on black levels, which is especially important. It received good marks in overall picture quality, and has great viewing angles according to the review. It's 42", but for TVs, typically bigger is better, so I recommend getting a 42" rather than a 40" if given the option.
Also consider the Sony KDL-40EX640. It gets good reviews in picture quality with good marks in colour saturation, and black level performance.
These TVs both feature 240hz motion enhancement settings, so you'll basically be have many options at your disposal as far as picture settings and features are concerned.
I hope these recommendations suit you, they're what I would go with if I were looking at an LED set in the 40" range.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
WUT?
I don't wave a Panasonic flag, but all of the panny sets I've seen had better PQ then ANY of the LG plasma I've seen.
Find out about input lag.
Never be happy again.
edit: whoa, www.displaylag.com is so awesome. I'm glad somebody stepped up.
Never be happy again.
edit: whoa, www.displaylag.com is so awesome. I'm glad somebody stepped up.
bishopcruz
Member
Ok, found a good deal online for a Samsung PN51F5500 Plasma. It seems to have decent input lag scores on displaylag.com, does anyone have one of these? Are they any good? How are Samsung Plasmas in general?
kutthoat5150
Member
the Panasonic ut50 is what you should have got then and it's cheaper than your lg
Ardenyal
Member
Also being screwed over by panel lottery :/ The first versions of TVs often have better panels for reviews.
devotedgmr17
Banned
Reading through this thread, it's surprising that Plasma is the TV of choice. When I bought my LCD Sony Bravia about 3 years ago, the consensus was to not even consider a Plasma for the image burn, and the fact that the displays burn out after some time.
Is this now not the case?
I apologize if this has been answered already. I also am looking for a possible Next-gen TV upgrade and would like to know what the reasons are going Plasma.
Is this now not the case?
I apologize if this has been answered already. I also am looking for a possible Next-gen TV upgrade and would like to know what the reasons are going Plasma.
Plasma's have a half life of about 100,00 hours.
aka longer than any average TV will realistically last.
People confuse image burn in (permanent) with image retention (temporary). Burn in is pretty hard to get.
A lot of Plasmas will get you far better motion clarity, deeper blacks, overall far better picture quality. Higher end plasmas also do not suffer from glare thanks to superior filters and panels.
Low end Plasmas can look pretty cruddy, but midrange to high end will vary from best value to best TV period.