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[eso76]

Quick heads up for F8500 owners.

PC mode (renaming source to PC) will enable full 4:4:4 support.
Everybody knows that by now I believe, but there's more:

Image is going to look quite washed out, BUT enabling full HDMI range on your console will take care of that, and give you all your deep blacks back, as well as greater color accuracy.

There's more. True PC mode only engages when playing games on your console (or on the dashboard of course).

As soon as you start watching a bluray on PS4, the TV will start behaving just like with any other source; options won't be greyed out, and all image processing will be enabled again.

Also
If you run multiple sources through AVR, the same will happen when switching from ps4 to cable/sat receiver. True PC mode will disengage.

Isn't it great?

 

[Insane Metal]

Eso, I believe that's the case for every recent Samsung TV. Mine's like that too (F5300 Plasma).

 

[eso76]

Dunno, but it's very convenient not having to rename sources all the time.
I believe it simply has to do with true PC mode not accepting weird color space/resolution combinations, but since I heard people planning to split sources (I even thought of buying a HDMI splitter to send my ps4 to two inputs simultaneously, to use as PC and movie) well, no need for that.
Also, PC mode with full range HDMI output looks magnificent for games.

 

[vort3x]

Posted this on avsforums but i'll post here too.

I'm getting an xbox one end of this month I'm looking to upgrade to a new tv. Current tv I own is a 50 inch Samsung DLP from 2004 (UGH). I've been saving up to get a nice tv for a long time now. I'm looking towards a 60 inch at least and I've narrowed it down to KDL60W630B or KDL60W850B, because this set will by my main gaming set along with some tv/movie viewing.

I haven't seen any reviews for W630B, is it a good gaming tv? I've stayed away from Sony for a long long time because of some horrible experiences with the brand but seeing how its got the lowest lag time I'm gonna give it another chance. How have Sony been in the last few years? As you can tell I don't change tv's that often and don't plan to change that, can't really afford to honestly. I don't care about 3d, don't own a 3d Blu ray and probably won't own one. TV will be mounted on a wall in a well lit room with surround sound speakers.

Which one would you recommend? Any difference between the two that sets other than the 3d part?? I'm using bestbuy points to get either tv so no money will be coming out of my actual wallet. Also should I bother getting warranty on it? If so then that will come out of my wallet and I will favor the cheaper one.

Thank you!

 

[ReyVGM]

I have a burn in/phosphor aging question about plasmas. Thought this would be the right place to ask.

I own a Panasonic S60 and have hundreds and hundreds of hours on it (prolly 500+). During this time, I have never viewed any 2.35:1 content outside of the occasional letterboxed video game cutscene - no films at all. Now, I'm really excited to play The Evil Within soon and unfortunately the game displays in 2.35:1 so black bars will be present. My question is if displaying sustained black bars for 15, 20, or even more hours (until I'm done with it) will have any negative effect on the TV, considering the numerous hours I've used it without them. Is there anything I should know? Any precautions to take? Am I worried for nothing?

Thanks.

The black bars will not give you image retention. The actual video feed will if you leave a fixed image on it (as you are already aware).

The only thing that will happen is that the part where you're getting an image will age the phosphors, and the part with the black bars will not.

 

[hoverboarder]

Posted this on avsforums but i'll post here too.

I'm getting an xbox one end of this month I'm looking to upgrade to a new tv. Current tv I own is a 50 inch Samsung DLP from 2004 (UGH). I've been saving up to get a nice tv for a long time now. I'm looking towards a 60 inch at least and I've narrowed it down to KDL60W630B or KDL60W850B, because this set will by my main gaming set along with some tv/movie viewing.

I haven't seen any reviews for W630B, is it a good gaming tv? I've stayed away from Sony for a long long time because of some horrible experiences with the brand but seeing how its got the lowest lag time I'm gonna give it another chance. How have Sony been in the last few years? As you can tell I don't change tv's that often and don't plan to change that, can't really afford to honestly. I don't care about 3d, don't own a 3d Blu ray and probably won't own one. TV will be mounted on a wall in a well lit room with surround sound speakers.

Which one would you recommend? Any difference between the two that sets other than the 3d part?? I'm using bestbuy points to get either tv so no money will be coming out of my actual wallet. Also should I bother getting warranty on it? If so then that will come out of my wallet and I will favor the cheaper one.

Thank you!

W630B is between entry level and midlevel for Sony. Sony TVs this year are great now that the R series is gone. The W series uses the X Reality Pro video processor which is huge for video clarity improvement. TV has the same smart features as every Sony this year, even the 4Ks, which means PlayStation Now built in. No built in Bluetooth though so you'll have to plug the dualshock 3 in.

W850B is better. Mid level Sony. 3D panel has better image and color slightly. Plus 3D simulation is cool. Has the bluetooth the one above doesn't. Same operating system speed. Much better sound with the wedge design. Let me know if you have any other questions about it.

 

[Hurley]

So after months of deciding what TV to purchase I went and picked up a 55' W800B and I have to say I'm in love with this things picture quality, 2D is amazing on this set. Haven't really messed around with any calibrations yet but I have turned off all the "enhancements". Also, a question to those with this set do you turn the echo light sensor off?

Only thing I can nit pick about so far is in the bottom left corner there is some very slight clouding/flashlighting?, I only really noticed it in a completely dark room while the screen was on one of the hdmi input screens, it's not one of those bright greyish patches that stands out and while actually using it I can't see it but I expected some clouding as it's just inherit to these edge lit sets?

I'm sure some people would find it unacceptable and try and return it but it's that minor and so far I haven't found any dead pixels so I don't wan to risk returning it and getting one that's worse off lol

 

[hoverboarder]

So after months of deciding what TV to purchase I went and picked up a 55' W800B and I have to say I'm in love with this things picture quality, 2D is amazing on this set. Haven't really messed around with any calibrations yet but I have turned off all the "enhancements". Also, a question to those with this set do you turn the echo light sensor off?

Only thing I can nit pick about so far is in the bottom left corner there is some very slight clouding/flashlighting?, I only really noticed it in a completely dark room while the screen was on one of the hdmi input screens, it's not one of those bright greyish patches that stands out and while actually using it I can't see it but I expected some clouding as it's just inherit to these edge lit sets?

I'm sure some people would find it unacceptable and try and return it but it's that minor and so far I haven't found any dead pixels so I don't wan to risk returning it and getting one that's worse off lol

Keep the enhancements on. Turn reality creation to auto and motionflow to smooth. Scene select general, picture mode to vivid. Under preferences in eco, turn off power saving and turn off light sensor. Awesomeness.

 

[vort3x]

W630B is between entry level and midlevel for Sony. Sony TVs this year are great now that the R series is gone. The W series uses the X Reality Pro video processor which is huge for video clarity improvement. TV has the same smart features as every Sony this year, even the 4Ks, which means PlayStation Now built in. No built in Bluetooth though so you'll have to plug the dualshock 3 in.

W850B is better. Mid level Sony. 3D panel has better image and color slightly. Plus 3D simulation is cool. Has the bluetooth the one above doesn't. Same operating system speed. Much better sound with the wedge design. Let me know if you have any other questions about it.

Thanks much. I'm mostly gonna be gaming and watching regular tv on this. Very seldom it'll be used for movies/blu rays. I'm leaning towards the 630B because its a good $500 cheaper and I think i can live without the 3d aspect. Especially since I'm coming from a dlp that i've seen for 10 years, I'm sure the 630B will be great.

 

[The Xtortionist]

The black bars will not give you image retention. The actual video feed will if you leave a fixed image on it (as you are already aware).

The only thing that will happen is that the part where you're getting an image will age the phosphors, and the part with the black bars will not.

So would it matter much if there is uneven aging for something like 30-40 hours after 500+ hours of even aging?

Thanks for the info.

 

[hitgirl]

FWIW my 700b which is pretty much a 800b has pretty bad black screen uniformity, like all over the place. But whatever, don't think that affects the picture much.

Keep the enhancements on. Turn reality creation to auto and motionflow to smooth. Scene select general, picture mode to vivid. Under preferences in eco, turn off power saving and turn off light sensor. Awesomeness.

Oh man, this is the exact opposite of what I have my Sony set to. Everything is set to off, isf calibrated, that natural picture.

 

[Hurley]

Keep the enhancements on. Turn reality creation to auto and motionflow to smooth. Scene select general, picture mode to vivid. Under preferences in eco, turn off power saving and turn off light sensor. Awesomeness.

So enhancements should be left on? I was always under the impression they should be off.

I'll try it, thanks.

FWIW my 700b which is pretty much a 800b has pretty bad black screen uniformity, like all over the place. But whatever, don't think that affects the picture much.

Yeah I only really notice when it's just on a black screen like one of the hdmi inputs. When actually playing a game or watching tv I don't notice it.

Here's a image taken from Rtings review of the W800b

I'd say around the bottom of my set is like the one in this image except maybe not as noticeable, then again I haven't turned the light sensor off or increase the backlight, if I did that it would probably be more obvious.

 

[hitgirl]

I think mine was decent until I got it ISF calibrated, wasn't until then when I noticed the black uniformity so it was decent enough to go un noticed. I'm guessing all the stuff they turned off would throttle the backlight on a complete black scene. Mine looks a bit worse than the RTINGS one, but whatever I don't mind and prefer that then the backlight changing constantly while watching a movie.

 

[Hurley]

Have you also turned the light sensor off in the echo settings? If so what did you set your backlight to afterwards?

 

[hitgirl]

Have you also turned the light sensor off in the echo settings? If so what did you set your backlight to afterwards?

Yup, everything is set to off under eco settings. Backlight is set to 7.

 

[Hurley]

Yup, everything is set to off under eco settings. Backlight is set to 7.

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

 

[ReyVGM]

So would it matter much if there is uneven aging for something like 30-40 hours after 500+ hours of even aging?

Thanks for the info.

Nah, that would only matter during the break-in period, and even then, 40 hours wouldn't make a notable aging difference.

 

[hitgirl]

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

No prob, when I get a chance I'll post the settings that the ISF guy put in.

 

[hoverboarder]

So enhancements should be left on? I was always under the impression they should be off.

I'll try it, thanks.

Those enhancements are huge for clarity and color and motion. They're the reason you buy a Sony in 2014 over the competition. Otherwise you just have any other LED. Watch a YouTube video on x reality pro processor abd the difference it makes and I guarantee you will want to keep reality creation on. To try it yourself, pause an HD video on a person's face and turn reality creation off to see what you're missing.

 

[hitgirl]

Those enhancements are huge for clarity and color and motion. They're the reason you buy a Sony in 2014 over the competition. Otherwise you just have any other LED. Watch a YouTube video on x reality pro processor abd the difference it makes and I guarantee you will want to keep reality creation on. To try it yourself, pause an HD video on a person's face and turn reality creation off to see what you're missing.

When I pause or pull up a picture of a face and turn on X reality it adds so much noise. Like my desktop background is of a girls face and with X reality on it looks like it's covered in peach fuzz.

 

[hoverboarder]

When I pause or pull up a picture of a face and turn on X reality it adds so much noise. Like my desktop background is of a girls face and with X reality on it looks like it's covered in peach fuzz.

It's essentially a better version of unsharp mask in Photoshop. I love it personally. Makes a big difference, especially in SD. it works by comparing what you're watching to millions of images and patterns in its database.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Quick heads up for F8500 owners.

PC mode (renaming source to PC) will enable full 4:4:4 support.
Everybody knows that by now I believe, but there's more:

Image is going to look quite washed out, BUT enabling full HDMI range on your console will take care of that, and give you all your deep blacks back, as well as greater color accuracy.

There's more. True PC mode only engages when playing games on your console (or on the dashboard of course).

As soon as you start watching a bluray on PS4, the TV will start behaving just like with any other source; options won't be greyed out, and all image processing will be enabled again.

Also
If you run multiple sources through AVR, the same will happen when switching from ps4 to cable/sat receiver. True PC mode will disengage.

Isn't it great?

There's nothing great about this. My Panasonic VT60 could have all the image adjustments enabled while in Game Mode, there's no need to rename inputs or disable all your image adjustments. My Sony X900A also allows all the image adjustments in Game Mode except for Motionflow settings and a few things in Reality Creation. The Sony properly supports RGB 4:4:4 in it's Game Mode.

Samsung TVs have always handled gaming poorly and it's probably because Samsung doesn't give a shit.

 

[interfreak]

There's nothing great about this. My Panasonic VT60 could have all the image adjustments enabled while in Game Mode, there's no need to rename inputs or disable all your image adjustments. My Sony X900A also allows all the image adjustments in Game Mode except for Motionflow settings and a few things in Reality Creation. The Sony properly supports RGB 4:4:4 in it's Game Mode.

Samsung TVs have always handled gaming poorly and it's probably because Samsung doesn't give a shit.

ANY motion interpolation turned on in Game Mode, has a massively negative impact on input lag.

ALWAYS turn off all motion processing when gaming to minimise input lag.

 

[Gaylord Sweetwood]

Samsung just cut prices on their f8500 plasmas. 1399, 1999, 2500 for the 51, 60, 64 respectively. Great prices for the last great plasma sets on the market.

Winner of the 2013 & 2014 value electronics panel shoot out.

Come on Black Friday!

 

[SeanTSC]

ANY motion interpolation turned on in Game Mode, has a massively negative impact on input lag.

ALWAYS turn off all motion processing when gaming to minimise input lag.

And I'm not sure how the VT60 handles it, but turning on 1080p Pixel Direct (4:4:4 mode) massively increases input lag on the ST60 just like motion stuff. It could just be a firmware bug or some really bad programming, but it's highly possible it does the same thing to the other *T60 Panasonic Plasmas.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

And I'm not sure how the VT60 handles it, but turning on 1080p Pixel Direct (4:4:4 mode) massively increases input lag on the ST60 just like motion stuff. It could just be a firmware bug or some really bad programming, but it's highly possible it does the same thing to the other *T60 Panasonic Plasmas.

1080p Pure Direct has no impact on input lag on the VT60. The ST60 is known for being a laggy TV unfortunately compared to the S60, VT60, and ZT60.

 

[interfreak]

Plasmas in general have appalling input lag compared to LCD/LED TV's.

 

[SeanTSC]

1080p Pure Direct has no impact on input lag on the VT60. The ST60 is known for being a laggy TV unfortunately compared to the S60, VT60, and ZT60.

That's good. ST60 lag is pretty overblown though. It's fine with gamemode on and all the stuff you'd turn off anyways turned off. The only sticking point on it is 4:4:4 mode wrecking the input lag, otherwise it's okay.

 

[buhbuh]

No prob, when I get a chance I'll post the settings that the ISF guy put in.

I have the 790B

would really appreciate those settings if you get a chance.

 

[Hurley]

Okay just noticed something that's setting my ocd off.

The TV is completely off but in certain light you can see column like lines going down the panel? It's like reflections but not..if that makes sense? Is this normal? W800b btw.

brb while I move shit around the house to see if it is reflections or not.

 

[DagsJT]

What is the absolute best 32" tv out there? I need something for my guest room.

Bumping this as I'm also curious. I do my gaming in a small study room using a 24" monitor but wondering if I could go up to a 32" TV and if the picture would look as good as my XL2420T monitor.

The TV would ideally have 3 HDMI ports, if not 4 as I've got a PC, PS4 and Wii U.

 

[eso76]

There's nothing great about this.

D:

This isn't a tv war, is it ?

I think it's great for Sammy owners, since i've read many, inclding me, were asking "but, if i set PS4 input as PC, what happens when i watch blurays ??" the answer is nothing happens, since the tv just will automatically disable true pc mode.
Same if you run all your inputs through an AVR. Only 'computer generated' images will trigger real PC mode. And while PC mode does disable some of the image processing, videogames look best that way.

 

[Stereogatari]

Got a Sony KDL50W829 yesterday. Quite an upgrade from the 720p Sony KDL32V2500 I've had for 8 years. Got that back when I was 15!!! Time sure flies.

However I'm having buyer's remorse with regards to whether I should've got the 55inch model. You would've thought 50 would be more than enough for a bedroom, but it looks like 55 would've been doable. I'll get over it I guess lol. That model is £999, mine was only £674.10 (Usually £799, but it was on offer for £749 and we also got a further 10% off because the cardboard box was slightly damaged and that was the last one in stock! Lucky me).

I like the UI and interface much much better than Samsung. It uses the same icons as XMB and the interface is very similar to the PSN Store. It's less laggy than the Samsung, but still has a noticeable loading time when bringing up menus and such. Shame it can't play 60fps video files, but I can just hook my laptop up for those rare Gamersyde files .

Oh and most importantly the picture looks fucking great of course. Driveclub nice and crisp.

 

[LJ11]

.

 

[Stereogatari]

Okay just noticed something that's setting my ocd off.

The TV is completely off but in certain light you can see column like lines going down the panel? It's like reflections but not..if that makes sense? Is this normal? W800b btw.

brb while I move shit around the house to see if it is reflections or not.

Don't worry that's normal and it is reflections lol.

You got the same model as me. We're TV brothers! Which size did you get?

 

[TP-DK]

GAF I could use some recommendations for a new TV. I have had my Panasonic VT20 for 4 years now and loved it, but now it got plasma buzzing which I can hear no matter how high the volume is, and it's driving me nuts.

So far I'm leaning towards a Sony KDL50W828b, but does anyone know how the picture quality is compared to VT20? I'm really fearing that I'll end up with a tv with worse quality than what I got now. And the transition from plasma to lcd just makes it worse.

 

[lostinblue]

GAF I could use some recommendations for a new TV. I have had my Panasonic VT20 for 4 years now and loved it, but now it got plasma buzzing which I can hear no matter how high the volume is, and it's driving me nuts.

It's probably not plasma buzz but a P-Board issue.

See, power supply buzzes more when it loses efficiency.

In regards to quality.. It's worse, but your VT20 is probably not maintained up to notch either, because it has the black rising issue that requires resetting.

So it might feel like an upgrade in black room performance, but theoretically (or comparing "out-of-the-box" measurements... not really.

I think it's great for Sammy owners

I think it's great as well, and it's a good thing you're happy, you should... it's a fine TV.

 

[hitgirl]

GAF I could use some recommendations for a new TV. I have had my Panasonic VT20 for 4 years now and loved it, but now it got plasma buzzing which I can hear no matter how high the volume is, and it's driving me nuts.

So far I'm leaning towards a Sony KDL50W828b, but does anyone know how the picture quality is compared to VT20? I'm really fearing that I'll end up with a tv with worse quality than what I got now. And the transition from plasma to lcd just makes it worse.

LED won't have a better picture than the Plasma if it's set right, unfortunately. But there's a ton of stuff that LEDs have going for them which makes them way easier to own. you get better input lag, less heat off panel, no fear of image retention, they are lighter, draw less power, etc.

 

[Sorta Maximus]

Just bought the UN55H8000 Samsung. My research determines this to be the best overall 2014 TV that still did quality 3D with a low 37ms of lag.

 

[hitgirl]

37 not "low"

 

[lostinblue]

you get better input lag

I don't wanna bite but I'll have to.

There are LCD's with less input lag than plasmas now, but that doesn't mean most.

For a long time plasmas were the only thing on the market doing 16.7 ms of lag, and most of them still do. Hence people bought them for gaming, not LCD's. See, plasmas are good with motion to boot, so post processing could be lighter and it usually was whereas LCD's always tended to lag like hell.

Most TV's lag more than that [16,7 ms], and in the end some plasmas did as well. But if you looked at track record and did an average I bet LCD's are still more lagged than plasmas - on average. You just have so much fail on some of them.

But the fact you now have some LCD TV's going lower doesn't mean plasmas are any kind of slouches specially considering they offered so much when it came to image quality despite of that. I wouldn't trade my plasmas for an LCD, specially the flagship ones.


Also, LCD can't even compete with the plasma pixel ghosting time so sometimes input lag is questionable, it takes longer to become stable so the fact it's reacting faster can still be slower (to your eyes).

 

[hitgirl]

Isn't the input lag on plasmas testing vs CRT with a camera though?

 

[lostinblue]

Isn't the input lag on plasmas testing vs CRT with a camera though?

Just like it was for LCD's a year before last. Absolute same thing.

Thing about the new hip method in town is that it's not even a camera mimicking human vision, it's a damn light sensor that is looking for a certain value to be hit. A threshold.

Understand that means that the TV might be showing something that for a camera is nothing and for your eyes registers as something.

which is what happened with modern Panasonic plasmas, since they use subfields so much they were drawing half frames and the leo bodnar device, who wasn't developed with these nuances in mind was saying nope.

Well, it can say nope all it wants but that doesn't mean it's more reliable, which is why a lot of publications elected to use both.

For LCD's it's more reliable, for now, because they are not doing anything that can't be defeated. Like "strobbing" or "Clear Motion Rate", those can be turned off. Stuff these plasmas were doing couldn't.

Older plasmas work well with leo bodnar as well as Samsung ones.



Both are good to have, but don't diss one for the other, it's apples to oranges, but at the same time should reveal a pattern. And when it doesn't it's because something fucked up, and it's always on the leo bodnar side, to be honest.

Leo Bodnar advantage is that technically it's adding up the ghosting time as well (like I said it's mathematical - it's waiting for that value to be hit) and it's easy to set up and do a reading versus doing 10 of the fast camera method just to get an average whilst testing it with another screen on the side. Fast camera method tends to disregard ghosting time as long as it's already visible the final intent of the stabilized frame is. None are better, but the fast camera method is trying to mimic what your eyes are seeing and perceiving.

But understand that plasmas have 4 ms ghosting time, unlike LCD's where 10 ms is more than good, it's class leading - so that alone wouldn't be a problem.

You have to know what you're reading, basically. In OLED's both methods could be comparable directly, because ghosting time is so low, on an LCD TV where fast camera method and leo bodnar values are farther apart than usual that means that shit has ghosting and on plasmas... Well, depending on the plasma just take a shit on the leo bodnar benchmark, please. It's known to be inaccurate to a fault on the panasonic's.

 

[TP-DK]

It's probably not plasma buzz but a P-Board issue.

See, power supply buzzes more when it loses efficiency.

In regards to quality.. It's worse, but your VT20 is probably not maintained up to notch either, because it has the black rising issue that requires resetting.

So it might feel like an upgrade in black room performance, but theoretically (or comparing "out-of-the-box" measurements... not really.

Makes sense that it might be the power supply. Either way it's driving me nuts

Yeah I thought it would be a step in the wrong way picture wise, but I guess buying a bigger tv than I have now will make up for it.... Atleast a litte.

 

[lostinblue]

I don't think it's a bad decision, but personally I'd invest on the VT20 a little, specifically, I'd fix the P-Board (panel buzz doesn't increase so it's down to capacitor failure there), you don't need to order the part from Panasonic, you can rebuild it or rather, have someone servicing it and rebuilding it. Even panasonic often uses rebuilt parts specially for older models like these.

And I'd buy this.


But if you need some extra inches, the W828B is a fine TV, specially for gaming. Against a VT20 that's performing to it's best and running, say, a bluray... I'd say there's no chance it can match it let alone better it. But it can be enjoyable nonetheless, I don't puke just by looking at it, you can certainly get used to it. It's just that the VT20 is one of the best televisions ever in my book.

 

[User 479360]

I need to get a budget-friendly HDTV. I'm eyeing a 50 or 58-inch Toshiba, with 3-4 HDMI ports so that I won't have to switch a lot. My current one only has 2, but I have five HDMI devices.

Has anyone had experience with the brand? I have about $1250 to spend, and don't need the best TV out there. I just want something good for gaming that will last a while.

I'd like to go with 120hz

My current TV - a Sharp Aquos LC42D62U - is about seven years old now. It's done its job very well, and is an excellent TV. However, it's starting to show its age, because:

1) During fall/winter (for some reason), it makes a whistling/whirring sound when black screens show. I don't know what causes it.

2) I sometimes have to reset the TV and its inputs, because the HDMI ports will fail to detect sound sometimes.

I'm not in a rush, and may even wait a year, but I'm curious about that brand. Their TVs look really nice.

 

[WheelHoss1]

Just bought the UN55H8000 Samsung. My research determines this to be the best overall 2014 TV that still did quality 3D with a low 37ms of lag.

Gorgeous TV. You'll love it.

I bought the 8550 for 4K, which I'm digging. But both TVs blew me away with their PQ when I was doing research.

I saw the H8000 right next to the F8500 plasma that "techies" drool over, and the H8000 wiped the floor with the plasma imo. The LCD just had so much more pop and detail.

 

[Sorta Maximus]

Gorgeous TV. You'll love it.

I bought the 8550 for 4K, which I'm digging. But both TVs blew me away with their PQ when I was doing research.

I saw the H8000 right next to the F8500 plasma that "techies" drool over, and the H8000 wiped the floor with the plasma imo. The LCD just had so much more pop and detail.

I'm pretty excited too. I'm going to rewatch all my Blu-Rays and I now have all three consoles plus PC. I wish I could have afforded the 65" but the 55" I did buy is still the largest HDTV I've ever owned. Perhaps 55" is for the best as the next step is the Sony HW40ES projector, a fine complement to my Samsung UN55H8000 if I ever get it.

 

[hitgirl]

Looked at the Vizio P series this week, what a joke. Thing is like $62 a year to power.

Just like it was for LCD's a year before last. Absolute same thing.
\

Ah, interesting.

 

[GluedOnBeard]

The P series does deliver on almost everything else though. I am definitely not going to be an early adopter and can see them being quite cheap in sales however.

It's good for competition that they have entered the market with that lineup.