Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

Backfoggen said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q8EZnFr8nc

ZD9 confirmed 45ms input lag. What the hell is Sony doing? Bring out a 4k-enabled console and your flagship TV has sucky lag.
Click to expand...

Is that with HDR content? If so that seems to be in line with LG OLED models, which Sony is competing against with that Z series. Actually, it's a few ms faster. Maybe it's a tech limitation at this point? Dunno. Could also be that it's just not a priority, but I feel like Sony has been pretty on point in the past in regard to low input lag.
 
New002 said:
Is that with HDR content? If so that seems to be in line with LG OLED models, which Sony is competing against with that Z series. Actually, it's a few ms faster. Maybe it's a tech limitation at this point? Dunno. Could also be that it's just not a priority, but I feel like Sony has been pretty on point in the past in regard to low input lag.
Click to expand...

It's without HDR. The review doesn't say anything about input lag with HDR.
 
McSpidey said:
IMO OLED owners looking to do HDR gaming are likely to feel disappointed. They're only just barely bright enough for SDR content. It's clear from today that HDR gaming is really designed for 'torch mode' capable super bright HDR LCD tvs.

That said, I'm a fan of OLEDs responsiveness and SDR content contrast/colours. They're still incredible TVs. And to pre-empt replies, yes I'm aware of the differing HDR standard made just for OLED tvs.
Click to expand...

yeah I don't agree with this at all.

It certainly won't get as blindingly bright, but the blacks make up for that entirely and then some, and provide a contrast that makes those brights seem just as bright.

And it's still far brighter than SDR.

Calibrated the OLEDs hit the color gamut required quite well. The contrast between black and the blindingly bright highlights / scenes is good.

I suppose full field bright scenes are where you may be missing out with an OLED. Even then until you get to 50% sustained the OLED can keep up with sustained brightness. The peak sequences probably are where it lags a bit, but even then.

And honestly, if the HDR content is mastered correctly to roll off on the display's capabilities right, it should be fine.

HDR doesn't have to mean super saturated unrealistic colors and brightness that burns your eyeballs.
 
My wishlist for 2017 OLEDs:

Not going to happen:
- No ABL
- 1000+ nits

Not likely to happen:
- Better color luminance

Could happen:
- better motion handling
- better near-black performance
- lower priced version without a curve and soundbar but with also low input lag
- better HDR10 performance (no clipping)

I bet only one of these things is going to come true.
 
f@luS said:
as ps4 pro won't have uhd capabilities , I may need to buy a uhd player

I have few questions,

-I have 3 HDMI only on my lg oled : my tv box, my ps4 and my Apple TV which I use only and only for a French streaming app called Canalplay available only on Apple device. How can I connect a BR pUHD player without a multi HDMI device ? Does they have (uhd player) some HDMI in as well so I can plug in my Apple TV for exemple ?
-I don't want 3 vg system and I'll buy the NX so ...... I don't think I'll buy the Xbox one S for bhd unless it's really good ? Won't play on it
-how much can we expect for next year uhd player like January/ February ? Xbox one s price ?
-how should I let the upscale from standard BR, the tv or the player ?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Anyone?
 
jstevenson said:
yeah I don't agree with this at all.

It certainly won't get as blindingly bright, but the blacks make up for that entirely and then some, and provide a contrast that makes those brights seem just as bright.

And it's still far brighter than SDR.

Calibrated the OLEDs hit the color gamut required quite well. The contrast between black and the blindingly bright highlights / scenes is good.

I suppose full field bright scenes are where you may be missing out with an OLED. Even then until you get to 50% sustained the OLED can keep up with sustained brightness. The peak sequences probably are where it lags a bit, but even then.

And honestly, if the HDR content is mastered correctly to roll off on the display's capabilities right, it should be fine.

HDR doesn't have to mean super saturated unrealistic colors and brightness that burns your eyeballs.
Click to expand...

I was taking to my buddy today and telling them a funny thing with the c6, and I dunno if it's the brightness setting, curve, or size, but that image is so bright and vibrant that it feels like I have to turn the lights down in my apartment...but it's just the tv lol. It illuminates my space pretty well.
 
Darryl M R said:
I think I will pick this bad boy up:

http://www.sony.com/electronics/televisions/xbr-x800d-series

And then pick up the PS4 Pro afterwards. . or maybe the other way around.
Click to expand...

I just got this TV last weekend as a TV for my bedroom. I have had a good experience with it so far but I haven't hooked up a PS4 or Xbox to it yet to test gaming. The picture after some minor adjustments looks solid with a DirecTV box.

I'm getting my internet upgraded next week to fiber so I hope to test their built in 4K netflix app then and can report back.
 
Future PhaZe said:
i find the KS8000 vs Vizio P with HDR input lag times from rtings to be a little suspect...would love to get at least a second opinion
Click to expand...

What exactly is suspect? Measuring input lag is not some magical subjective thing. You attach a device to the input/panel and test. Here's a breakdown:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag

These numbers are pretty exact. If you want a second opinion, buy the input lag tester yourself and give it a shot:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/?main_page=product_info&products_id=212
 
Yukstin said:
I just got this TV last weekend as a TV for my bedroom. I have had a good experience with it so far but I haven't hooked up a PS4 or Xbox to it yet to test gaming. The picture after some minor adjustments looks solid with a DirecTV box.

I'm getting my internet upgraded next week to fiber so I hope to test their built in 4K netflix app then and can report back.
Click to expand...

Is adjusting the picture done in the tv setting controls and is it something simple? I've never adjusted my televisions before and I hear for this one you have to.

Also I read you have to go into the settings to turn on the HDR for connected hardware.
 
Darryl M R said:
Is adjusting the picture done in the tv setting controls and is it something simple? I've never adjusted my televisions before and I hear for this one you have to.

Also I read you have to go into the settings to turn on the HDR for connected hardware.
Click to expand...

I used Rtings recommended settings as a base for what I wanted: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d/settings

Not every setting they had set I liked so use their guide as a start and go from there with adjustments. They got pretty deep into the white balance and colorspace menus and I didn't go that far with adjustments. You will eventually find a good balance in color and brightness that looks good for you and that's what matters.

Regarding HDR, I have mine set to auto so I assume it would switch when it detects and HDR source but I don't have a source to test that yet.
 
finalflame said:
What exactly is suspect? Measuring input lag is not some magical subjective thing. You attach a device to the input/panel and test.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the current bodnar tester does not emulate HDR metadata so it will not kick the TV into HDR mode which in most TVs is not a user selectable mode. So currently the only way to test HDR input lag accurately is with an elaborate video splitting setup and high speed camera.

I e-mailed the guys at Leo Bodnar a couple weeks back and they said they would look into adding an HDR version but I'm not going to hold my breath since I was asking them for a 4K version almost a year ago to compliment the 1080p version I already own and they gave me the same generic response that they are looking into it.
 
George Claw M.D. said:
If I'm reading this correctly, then Samsung just inadvertently debunked Rtings.com's input lag test results with both game and HDR modes enabled on their KS8000 review. If Samsung are just now updating their TVs to support game mode with HDR, then what the heck did Rtings test?
Click to expand...

Stop being kneejerk reactionary, nothing is debunked, and Rtings isn't running some pro-Samsung anti-Vizio conspiracy website. My KS8000 is on FW 1121, which has been out since 7/25:

5iIjM2D.png


And has Game Mode HDR:

osvmL2O.jpg

zkhhI2i.jpg

(sorry for the grain, was using shitty digital zoom on my phone)
Click to expand...

This was probably some kind of silent update/server prop that enabled HDR Game Mode. Companies do this all the time. They might also be rolling it out in waves. I've had it for at least the past few weeks. No idea why "HDTVTest" is "breaking" this now.

ViciousDS said:
so what are we down to

KS8000 vs Vizio P

and thats pretty much it for affordable panels that are decent for UHD HDR gaming?
Click to expand...

If you want to get the most out of HDR without selling a limb, yes. I really just don't think OLED justifies the price yet, even though it's perfectly within my budget. I'll wait for 2017 OLEDs.

beerninja said:
Unfortunately the current bodnar tester does not emulate HDR metadata so it will not kick the TV into HDR mode which in most TVs is not a user selectable mode. So currently the only way to test HDR input lag accurately is with an elaborate video splitting setup and high speed camera.

I e-mailed the guys at Leo Bodnar a couple weeks back and they said they would look into adding an HDR version but I'm not going to hold my breath since I was asking them for a 4K version almost a year ago to compliment the 1080p version I already own and they gave me the same generic response that they are looking into it.
Click to expand...

Good point. With that said, Rtings is a pretty reputable outlet, but I wonder what methodology they used to get their HDR Game Mode numbers. I'm sure they didn't just pull them out of thin air/do a test without HDR explicitly enabled.
 
Alright GAF I have settled my search down to two budget TVs that's pretty much as good as it gets for HDR with gaming mode on

Now which one should I grab

The Sony with much higher gamut color range, 10 bit panel with around 33ms input lag in game mode with HDR on. It's also not as bright as the counterpart below

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d


Or

The Samsung HDR display which is a huge drop in the color gamut and Overall color palette HOWEVER it does 20ms in HDR in game mode. It's a fucking dream for a 4K TV input lag wise. I'm solely leaning the Samsung alone just because of it.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300




How big of a difference will the two in HDR actually be. I've never seen an HDR set and compared them. I can imagine 4K makes a bigger difference overall but obviously realistic colors has just as a big effect.
 
ViciousDS said:
Alright GAF I have settled my search down to two budget TVs that's pretty much as good as it gets for HDR with gaming mode on

Now which one should I grab

The Sony with much higher gamut color range, 10 bit panel with around 33ms input lag in game mode with HDR on. It's also not as bright as the counterpart below

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d


Or

The Samsung HDR display which is a huge drop in the color gamut and Overall color palette HOWEVER it does 20ms in HDR in game mode. It's a fucking dream for a 4K TV input lag wise. I'm solely leaning the Samsung alone just because of it.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300




How big of a difference will the two in HDR actually be. I've never seen an HDR set and compared them. I can imagine 4K makes a bigger difference overall but obviously realistic colors has just as a big effect.
Click to expand...

Well there is tone mapping to consider, which one has proper tone mapping implementation. This is how detail is maintained in objects when higher amounts of brightness is applied to them. It's up to each display manufacture to create a tone mapping algorithm for HDR10 content.
 
finalflame said:
Stop being kneejerk reactionary, nothing is debunked, and Rtings isn't running some pro-Samsung anti-Vizio conspiracy website. My KS8000 is on FW 1121, which has been out since 7/25:

And has Game Mode HDR:

This was probably some kind of silent update/server prop that enabled HDR Game Mode. Companies do this all the time. They might also be rolling it out in waves. I've had it for at least the past few weeks. No idea why "HDTVTest" is "breaking" this now.
Click to expand...
You're reading too much into my post. I'm not accusing anyone of conspiracies. And I didn't even mention Vizio. I actually bought a KS8000 just 2 days ago, but haven't had time to unbox it and set it up yet. There's nothing wrong with wanting more than a single source of info. Rtings seems like a respected site, but so is hdtvtest, and that tweet seemingly puts them at odds with hdtvtest claiming it to be a "BREAKING" development. BruiserBear76 even challenges their "BREAKING" claim, and hdtvtest stands by it.

LYGOjUk.png


Your own screenshot of your KS8000 certainly seems to disprove hdtvtest's breaking news. Their latest Samsung review was back in June, so if the capability was added in a later FW, then it would indeed be the first time hdtvtest has tested it out. Though it would hardly be "BREAKING" which may be the only contentious wording in their tweet. Who knows, maybe Samsung themselves are trying to market it as a new thing in support of the latest PS4s and Xbones. Kinda like those stores that have been around for years, but still have a "Grand Opening" sign in front.
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
Well there is tone mapping to consider, which one has proper tone mapping implementation. This is how detail is maintained in objects when higher amounts of brightness is applied to them. It's up to each display manufacture to create a tone mapping algorithm for HDR10 content.
Click to expand...


I looked all over for this but no mention of it in any reviews. I didn't even know what it was but I did a Google search and there was a really nice explanation on a website about it.
 
45ms is a little higher than I would have liked, but after seeing the Z9, I will most likely be getting on. It's the best picture I've ever seen bar none.
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
I don't know how I missed that the PC version of Mass Effect Andromeda will be in Dolby Vision.

Should be interesting seeing the differences.
Click to expand...
Wha, seriously? That's great! Didn't expect any games with DV support to show up.
The PC version should also have support for HDR10 though.

Wonder if the input lag is any different in DV from HDR10.
 
jstevenson said:
yeah I don't agree with this at all.

It certainly won't get as blindingly bright, but the blacks make up for that entirely and then some, and provide a contrast that makes those brights seem just as bright.

And it's still far brighter than SDR.

Calibrated the OLEDs hit the color gamut required quite well. The contrast between black and the blindingly bright highlights / scenes is good.

I suppose full field bright scenes are where you may be missing out with an OLED. Even then until you get to 50% sustained the OLED can keep up with sustained brightness. The peak sequences probably are where it lags a bit, but even then.

And honestly, if the HDR content is mastered correctly to roll off on the display's capabilities right, it should be fine.

HDR doesn't have to mean super saturated unrealistic colors and brightness that burns your eyeballs.
Click to expand...

In my experience, anyone complaining about OLED brightness, doesn't own one, has likely never even seen one, and is just repeating FUD they have read on the internet.

Every TV has some kind of flaw that you have to weigh up and consider before buying, but IMO the OLED is still the best TV on the market, having now demoed the Sony ZD9.
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
Exclusivity deal is over with BestBuy. I find it strange that Vizio Dolby Vision chip that decodes both Dolby Vision and HDR10 is producing double the lag in HDR mode with GLL on. With GLL on, the only processing would be from the the decoder chip and very limited processing if local dimming is required for HDR gaming.
Click to expand...
So.. good to go?
 
I really want one of those 4k OLED's but the prices are just insane.

When they come down to about $2000 I might consider it. At the moment the cheapest 4k OLED sells for about $4500 in Australia which is just too much.
 
Backfoggen said:
It's without HDR. The review doesn't say anything about input lag with HDR.
Click to expand...

The lag isn't even close to be the biggest problem with that set unfortunately. Still a good TV but if you spend that much money you can either switch directly to the OLED camp or get a high end Pana- or Sammy-LCD.
 
Is it me or HDR add another level of complexity to choose a good tv for gaming ?
It seems input lag can up to double when hdr is in use on some tv.
(best i seen is 10% more on samsung ks8000)
Did i misunderstood or is this a real thing ?
 
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1473338993

"HLG, the third HDR format, was in the spotlight at IFA"

"HLG is the third HDR format to emerge in consumer products after HDR10 and Dolby Vision. Short for “Hybrid Log-Gamma”, HLG was created by UK’s BBC and Japan’s NHK in an effort to bring HDR picture quality to broadcast TV. The new format was in the spotlight at IFA 2016 in Berlin where most big-name brands exhibited HLG HDR on TVs.

HLG = Hybrid Log-Gamma
Do we really need a third HDR format, you may ask? Yes, says the broadcast industry. The simple reason is that broadcast TV – cable, satellite or terrestrial – has very limited bandwidth. Even if it feels like it, they cannot just cram an endless number of channels into the broadcast network.

HLG is a solution to that problem. By combining regular SDR (everything that is not HDR) and HDR into the same TV signal, broadcasters can save precious bandwidth. HLG uses a logarithmic transfer function and is designed in such a way that a regular SDR TV will automatically receive SDR whereas an HDR TV can pull out the extra HDR picture information (if it supports HLG, that is). Similarly, HLG can be used to provide live streaming in both SDR and HDR over a single stream.


HLG was jointly developed by BBC and NHK. It is a royalty-free format that has been included as part of the Rec.2100 – or BT.2100 – standard ratified by the ITU, which is the agency for information and communications technologies under the United Nations (UN). The inclusion into Rec.2100 more or less ensures that the broadcast industry will adopt HLG – but not necessarily the streaming services.

TV broadcasters have indicated that the hope to launch TV channels in HDR and Full HD resolution. Normally, HDR and Ultra HD resolution go hand in hand. Again, this has to do with the limited bandwidth in the old broadcast networks.

HLG demos at IFA 2016
Several companies used the opportunity at IFA 2016 in Berlin to demonstrate that their TVs – or projectors – can potentially support HLG. We say “potentially” because most of them refrained from promising a firmware update to existing products.

For example, LG used a HLG broadcast signal to demonstrate HDR video on one of its existing E6 OLED TVs (2016 line-up). The company says that its OLED TVs are “compatible with the full range of HDR technologies”. However, the E6 OLED model at IFA was a customized model and LG would not promise a firmware update to add HLG support to the 2016 TV line-up.

LG also used the HLG format to demonstrate 100/120fps HFR, as we reported here.

Similarly, Samsung used IFA to demonstrate HLG-based HDR on one a modified version of its current KS9000 TV. It appeared to be the same satellite TV feed from SES Astra that LG was using. Samsung would not commit to update its 2016 TVs with HLG either – at least not yet.

Sony launched a new projector, VPL-VW550ES, at IFA and promised to add HLG support via a firmware update later his year.

Panasonic and Philips also demonstrated HLG-based HDR on TVs with custom firmware. None of them would commit to update current models.

We suspect that this is a matter of “who strikes first” – Sony’s projector is an outlier. As soon as one of the major TV manufacturers announces a firmware update to add HLG to its current line-up, others will hopefully follow.

Expect to hear more about Hybrid Log-Gamma in the near future. IBC 2016 will start later this week and CES 2017 is less than four months away."
 
does anyone know if the samsung ku6300 allows game mode with HDR on?


This is the only thing left I need to know and rtings didn't cover that in their review, I know the sony one does.
 
Gaenor said:
Alright, so after some research, it's down to the Sony 55X930D or the Samsung 55KS8000 for me. Decisions...
Click to expand...

The local dimming/HDR is probably better on the 930D, but unless they patch in an HDR game mode and lower input lag with 4K content, it might not be the best for gaming.

Personally, I put everything through an AV Receiver so low input lag is already half-way out the window.
 
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