sadly my Flashlighting doesn't go away until I have the Backlight at 40 which is way too dim.
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
I'll post some pictures later when I get a chance to get the GAF weigh in on whether or not it qualifies as really bad.
As LiK just said though, it's not at all noticeable unless the screen is all black, so it's not a huge deal. Guess I just expected less of that in what I consider a premium set.
I did have my backlight at a level where my girlfriend told me it was blinding her, but I told her I needed to get a nice winter tan (and then she made me turn it down). I think I left off last night with it set to 7 (could be pulling that number out of my ass) which was still rather strong.
On the flipside, I didn't notice any clouding during all white screens which I noticed some folks on the AVSforums mentioning, so maybe that's a fair trade off.
And two $3,000 sets, goodness- something to work towards I suppose!
Currently 70, iirc. I may try dimmer bit by bit until it's even less noticeable but still won't look too dim to me.
Heh, I'm not proud of it. I would have returned the VT60, but I kept it beyond the return point.
Warning to Canadians: 2001AudioVideo only has a 14 day return policy for TVs. I only bought the VT60 there because they were the only ones who had it in stock. I'm pretty sure Best Buy and Future Shop are 30 days.
lostinblue
Banned
Holy crap, that doesn't look good.
Top range TV's are really like that; they're certainly better but they're also diminishing gains, so the perspective of paying 1000 dollars extra for something "only 10% better" in most situations can bite; but going back often bites more; you pay that extra money to have a reason to be picky with everyone else's TV's.
Turns out these are "regular TV's" with improvements sure, but improvements you mostly notice when going backwards; I mean there's only so much "OMG these blacks are black" until you just assume that to be standard. And then you realize they're only 7% better than the ones on a ST60, but you couldn't go ST60 due to the input lag... And the anti-glare filter is certainly good but doesn't negate all reflections like you dreamed of; if it was a ST60 you'd probably curse the fact you didn't go higher, having a VT60 you'll think you could go lower. Comes with humanity, comparing shit. But you did a choice and you bought a motherfucking VT60, I say you should be proud.
Translating euros into dollars, I just paid 3740 US Dollars for a 65VT60, and I don't regret it. That said, I could have bought a car with that kind of money; it kinda hurts to pay even if you just had the money for it lying around, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I think for the pricepoint people expect them to cook dinner and do handjobs; kinda like how unhappy girls go on a shopping spree, they expect that to make a huge difference in regards to their well being and happiness, but in the end it really doesn't.
Top range TV's are really like that; they're certainly better but they're also diminishing gains, so the perspective of paying 1000 dollars extra for something "only 10% better" in most situations can bite; but going back often bites more; you pay that extra money to have a reason to be picky with everyone else's TV's.
Turns out these are "regular TV's" with improvements sure, but improvements you mostly notice when going backwards; I mean there's only so much "OMG these blacks are black" until you just assume that to be standard. And then you realize they're only 7% better than the ones on a ST60, but you couldn't go ST60 due to the input lag... And the anti-glare filter is certainly good but doesn't negate all reflections like you dreamed of; if it was a ST60 you'd probably curse the fact you didn't go higher, having a VT60 you'll think you could go lower. Comes with humanity, comparing shit. But you did a choice and you bought a motherfucking VT60, I say you should be proud.
Translating euros into dollars, I just paid 3740 US Dollars for a 65VT60, and I don't regret it. That said, I could have bought a car with that kind of money; it kinda hurts to pay even if you just had the money for it lying around, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yeah, I noticed that when I was looking at TVs there last week. If/when I decide which TV I want to buy, it will probably take a few days at least before I'll be able to play musical TVs and get the existing sets moved to their new rooms. While I hope to not need to return a set, I'd rather have more than a week or so to decide.
BB/FS are good due to 30 day return policy. Costco is the best I think, but the Panny S64 (S60 with anti-glare filter) doesn't come in 55" which is the size I'm looking at.
I only have the issues on the lower left and right. The right is more annoying.
lostinblue
Banned
with that kind of backlighting I think you're entitled to replace it.
Yes, one can't really ask for a LCD to be 100% uniform, but that's very defective, they shouldn't even get to market like that.
My biggest gripe in monitors/tvs. Can't go back after perfect uniformity in Panasonic plasmas.
nah, you can exchange easily since you just got it. If they won't do an exchange, do a straight up return.
oh yea, very easy to exchange with Amazon. I do it all the time for defective or broken stuff with them. Not sure how it works with a large item like a TV tho. Do they send a carrier to pick it up?
lostinblue
Banned
Those are often my thoughts.
People at this point probably don't like to have me at their places much as I can't look at most LCD's without going off: "your screen uniformity leaves to be desired, how much did you pay for it?" or "arghhhhh, GREEN STUCK PIXEL" (and they had never noticed it until then, something which I find amazing)
Like I said, we pay extra in order to become picky with everyone else's choices.
littlepooch21
Member
Mine has the same issue and I think I'm going to get it replaced after Christmas. I'll take a picture later, but in the HDMI screen it is there badly, and then all black screens it's mostly gone.
Edit: Try an all white screen and see how bad it looks.
That's why I stopped buying LCDs. My first Samsung had really bad clouding and the second one never fully bucked light bleed. It was annoying to watch letterbox films with light bleed on the black bars.
Cool to look at a black screen on my ST60 and see a uniform black image. Not saying my set is without its shortcoming either. Plasma is flawed in many ways as well.
Lostconfused
Member
Bought an S60 two weeks ago, never owned a plasma TV before. When looking at it up close there is a lot of dithering and noise in the picture, is that normal for a plasma TV and that's just how the technology works? It's probably something I should have paid attention to at the showroom but just didn't notice it. It's not at all noticeable from a two a meter or two away or more.
Besides that, is there anything I really need to know about owning a plasma TV? It seems like such a niche technology with a lot of quirks that not a lot of the problems or pitfalls with it are easy to guess.
Besides that, is there anything I really need to know about owning a plasma TV? It seems like such a niche technology with a lot of quirks that not a lot of the problems or pitfalls with it are easy to guess.
The dithering is normal, and you shouldn't notice it from your sitting distance. I ran those slides on mine for a week http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=939 and just started finally watching it for real last night. I need to do some calibrating, it seems over-saturated right now, but I literally haven't even touched the 'menu' button yet.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Raw Images, quoted for thumbnail.
It's only really that top middle one that is a bother though.
Try doing this
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1125227/p...eed-fix-for-lcd-tvs-and-monitors-w-disclaimer
Ah, thanks. Sounds great. Guess my next TV purchase will be from Amazon.
That sounds like a good fix. I wish they made a video cuz I want to see exactly how they do it. I guess I'll try it for the lower right at least.
Lostconfused
Member
Yeah I ran the slides for about 100 hours, maybe a bit less with about 20 hours of television on top of that. Using the CNET calibration settings, things look about right to me. My only problem is that even with minimal indirect light in the room the glass screen will still be catching some reflection.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
I'm so conflicted on where I should go next when I upgrade my TV.
Part of me really really wants Vizio to make a 'gamer' series of their TVs with low input lag, while retaining the passive 3D tech that I love in my current Vizio.
Probably won't happen anytime soon.
Part of me really really wants Vizio to make a 'gamer' series of their TVs with low input lag, while retaining the passive 3D tech that I love in my current Vizio.
Probably won't happen anytime soon.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Well, I only paid $678 so it's not that bad.
I may try this after I go through a few movies and see if the flashlighting on the black bars still distract me. Also gonna keep checking if lowering the backlight will help. But it really distracts me enough that I will risk this method. I tried the loosening screw method and it did nothing.lostinblue
Banned
Since it varies from set to set I really think that's not quite right.
That's like circa 2004 saying "if dead pixels bother you then avoid LCD's altogether" or something along those lines.
How I see it, that one set is clearly faulty and I'd go straight to the store and complain; it's not like you want another kind of TV, you just want one whose screen is not busted out of the factory. I do it with 100 euro investments like Nintendo DS's and PSP's, so why wouldn't I in regards to a TV?
lostinblue
Banned
It works that way, but heavy dithering happens on Normal mode, should be lower in the Cinema modes. Try toggling up close and see.
You can also turning off the Pixel Orbiter and Video NR when you're past the break-in period (or even now, just to see hows the best it can get).
Still, at the distance you're sitting, shouldn't be an issue.
Paraphrasing... According to the recommendations of the TV taking 30% of your viewing space:
- A 42" TV should be seen from 1 meter and 91 centimeters of distance
- A 50" TV should be seen from 2 meters and 28 centimeters of distance
- A 55" TV should be seen from 2 meters and 50 centimeters of distance
- A 60" TV should be seen from 2 meters and 73 centimeters of distance
- A 65" TV should be seen from 2 meters and 96 centimeters of distance
And according to the retina (300 ppi) definition/recommendation:
- A 42" Full HD/1080p is retina when seen from 1 meter and 67 centimeters of distance
- A 50" Full HD/1080p is retina when seen from 1 meter and 98 centimeters of distance
- A 55" Full HD/1080p is retina when seen from 2 meters and 18 centimeters of distance
- A 60" Full HD/1080p is retina when seen from 2 meters and 38 centimeters of distance
- A 65" Full HD/1080p is retina when seen from 2 meters and 58 centimeters of distance
Just sit within those distances.
Nothing that hasn't been said before... They're really not that hard to get, just the notion of something out of the box not being mature enough for heavy rape and improving with time is something really hard to get for most.
Just use it for a while, wether you break-it-in via flashing image methods or naturally just be careful with the brightness (avoid Dynamic mode like the plague) and static imagery, but in the advent of falling into that, check the panel over a black image (just change the video source to one that's blank) look at it, and in the advent of there being IR just be patient in cleaning it; once the panel is broken-in you honestly never have to bother again.
(but you probably will at least to a point, because you gained the habit, I know I do)
Basically people with Plasmas unknowingly monitor and inspect them from time to time, but it really doesn't feel like inspecting for us. It's a habit and it comes naturally. Those are good habits too, as OLED's are also prone to IR.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
when my best friend finally got an LCD after ditching their CRT, I went over and calibrated it. He thought it was too dark, or something - and put it back and probably did some things himself. Now it's bright and faded, with a purple push and the sharpness it way up so that everything is pixelated. It bugs the crap out of me, but it's his TV.
One of these days I'll probably do a sneak semi-calibration, lol
CthulhuPL
Member
I know your pain. I have a friend who thinks that if you buy an expensive tv, you are set for life and there is no need to calibration. WRONG! More expensive stuff has more options and needs more calibration.
But back on topic: For me there is no projectors, no plasma and no high end tv. The only REAL tv for gaming is NORMAL (rather old now) LCD 50hz with quick reaction time. Nothing more, nothing less. I tried 100hz and more, tvs but they failed. The amount of graphical artifacts was tremendous.
lostinblue
Banned
I feel your pain, I often sneak-calibrate everyone's TV's... And I do that in the second their owners get up and go to the bathroom. I don't need their opinion telling me they love sharpness on maximum, all I see is ringing. Not to mention their color optimizations that make every green field in existence look like the Windows XP wallpaper.
I also open Panasonic Remotes and put tape masking the underneath of the N button whenever I can. The N button on Panasonic remotes resets the TV calibrations at place without asking, it sucks major balls and people seem to press it 5 times a week. That way they can press it, it just won't do anything.
Thankfully this year sets are free of them, but I'm not pressing an N button within a 10 mile radius of them, just to be sure.
I disagree in regards to them needing more calibration, they have better image out of the box after all. They also have more options so the absolute worst you can get from the original image could be increased. (probably the very reason Panasonic created the aforementioned "N" button)
But they certainly deserve that extra calibration, that's the real difference for me... Some TV's are really bar impossible to calibrate.
You mean CRT?
CRT's are awesome. Old LCD's not so much.
LOL. Awesome. It's funny, when I got the Pio in '08 my wife didn't give a crap about IQ. I'd make a big deal about it and she didn't care if it was HD or SD really, or a conversion vs. Bluray.
Now, if I download something that isn't top notch, she'll say it looks bad. Or she'll comment that someone else's TV is bad looking. Love it, haha.
CthulhuPL
Member
No. I mean LCD from around 2009/2010. Mine is LG 37LD465.
CthulhuPL
Member
No. I mean LCD from around 2009/2010. Mine is LG 37LD465.
EDIT: Double post? Delete pls.
To the Plasma fans:
When people say "I am worried about IR", that doesn't necessarily mean that they are worried about burn in. Some people just really don't like IR, because even though it goes away, it will literally cause artifacts that last a couple minutes. That's really annoying to some people, including myself.
Since I primarily use my TV as basically a PC display, it's especially more worrisome. If I were to load up some art-rich gorgeous game, I don't want to be looking at Chrome tabs on the top and a start button on the bottom.
Just some subjective perspective for you.
When people say "I am worried about IR", that doesn't necessarily mean that they are worried about burn in. Some people just really don't like IR, because even though it goes away, it will literally cause artifacts that last a couple minutes. That's really annoying to some people, including myself.
Since I primarily use my TV as basically a PC display, it's especially more worrisome. If I were to load up some art-rich gorgeous game, I don't want to be looking at Chrome tabs on the top and a start button on the bottom.
Just some subjective perspective for you.
IR was hardly noticeable for me even on my old plasma. it goes away so quickly that i never got annoyed by it.
I've got a Toshiba 52XV540U from 2008. Great set, but after seeing this thread, I wanted more. I've spent weeks crawling through forum threads, TV firmware updates, calibration settings ect. Finally found this TVs quirk. He's the before (bot.) and after (top);
For those that have this model....
This TV has 4 preset image settings as well as a user-defined 'Preference' setting. If you change any of the preset settings, it'll turn your new changes into the 'Preference' setting. 2 of the presets have correct chroma (top), 2 of which don't (bottom). You'll need to select one of the good chroma presets, then calibrate the display to get a 'Preference' setting that has correct chroma. You can not set chroma yourself.
Calibration;
Select 'PC' Preset first
Contrast: 98
Backlight: 60-100 (your choice)
DynaLight: your choice
Brightness: 53
Color: 76
Tint: +19
Sharpness: 50
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Color Temp: Cool
For those that have this model....
This TV has 4 preset image settings as well as a user-defined 'Preference' setting. If you change any of the preset settings, it'll turn your new changes into the 'Preference' setting. 2 of the presets have correct chroma (top), 2 of which don't (bottom). You'll need to select one of the good chroma presets, then calibrate the display to get a 'Preference' setting that has correct chroma. You can not set chroma yourself.
Calibration;
Select 'PC' Preset first
Contrast: 98
Backlight: 60-100 (your choice)
DynaLight: your choice
Brightness: 53
Color: 76
Tint: +19
Sharpness: 50
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Color Temp: Cool
Just curious... Does the serial number on your set start with 601? Folks at AVSForums were speculating that batch may have had worse clouding / uniformity issues.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Honestly, that's not terrible for pricing on higher end sets in Canada...
That being said, even at that price point, you can't really expect perfection. You're going to find fault with something...
Just checked the box (as I'm half afraid to move the set itself) and it seems to be an S01-602... set. Will post some shots soon.
The 55" W900A was on sale at Best Buy today for $1700. Not sure if it will be the same price for Boxing day or Super Bowl deals.
cpp_is_king
Member
Anyone have a Sony 55" w900a? I just got mine yesterday, it seems the internet constantly drops out. Like every 30 seconds to a minute when I'm in SEN, it says I need to check my internet connection, then it comes back. I'm going to update the TV firmware, but just wondering if anyone has experienced this.
I've been using a 50" Panasonic VT25 as my only monitor for 3 years. I did break it in more than most though. I browse on it constantly, and have no issues.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Interesting... I wonder what the 65" model will be selling for?
I'm pretty sure my next set I purchase will be a 4K ready... I've started to look at the X900A and the F9000. That being said, I wish there was something larger then 65" that's less then $10K. Best price in Canadaland I have seen for the UN65F9000 was $5300 CND. I haven't really hit my tv guy up for the Sony (other then the demo).
CES is around the corner so hopefully the prices will have come down a bit.