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[Tathanen]

If your TV is more for gaming then movies I don't agree

Gotta depend on how sensitive to it any one individual is, really. I'm extrapolating here and assuming the VT60's input lag is comparable to my 2010 Viera, but I literally just have never noticed any input lag. I'd rather bank on the picture quality than improving the value of a number that's already at imperceptible levels for me.

 

[geordiemp]

Sacrificing competition-grade input lag is a fair trade-off I think when it comes to Panny Plasma image quality. I can't notice the lag on my 2009 set anyway.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/flatforums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4942

VT60 Leo Bodnar lag test hdtvtest 41,5ms and AVforums 40,3ms)

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl55w905a-201305172987.htm?page=Performance

When we placed our Leo Bodnar input lag tester on the generated flashing box with the Sony KDL-55W905A set to [Game Mode], we were bowled over by the returned figure of 19.6ms, the lowest we’ve recorded since we started using the device. Seeking to verify this unheard-of level of gaming responsiveness, we then used the more conventional high-speed camera/ digital timer method, which showed the W9 lagging by merely 8ms (half a frame) compared to a CRT display.

905A is half the input lag of the VT60, or 20 ms difference. Note the leo Bodnar test is always higher than the fast camera, which gives the w905 as 8 ms....

Competition grade - nah, most gaming monitors are 2 ms....8 ms is not competition grade, but it is good.

So many Tv's today have terrible lag, making fast paced games seem harder than they really are...

Picture wise VT60 is slightly better, but 905A is damn good an dvery close to plasma blacks.

You could re-word your post as sacrificing the deepest of deep blacks cherished by movie buffs with RGB calibrators for a better gaming monitor......

made me giggle anyway...

 

[Applesauce]

Sacrificing competition-grade input lag is a fair trade-off I think when it comes to Panny Plasma image quality. I can't notice the lag on my 2010 set at least.

I don't notice it either. Amazing set, and they're discontinued, so you won't be able to find them for much longer.

 

[OverHeat]

Gotta depend on how sensitive to it any one individual is, really. I'm extrapolating here and assuming the VT60's input lag is comparable to my 2010 Viera, but I literally just have never noticed any input lag. I'd rather bank on the picture quality than improving the value of a number that's already at imperceptible levels for me.

The PQ is not league ahead by the way, its better that's for sure but its not night and day.

 

[geordiemp]

Gotta depend on how sensitive to it any one individual is, really. I'm extrapolating here and assuming the VT60's input lag is comparable to my 2010 Viera, but I literally just have never noticed any input lag. I'd rather bank on the picture quality than improving the value of a number that's already at imperceptible levels for me.

The thing is, if you are a coiple of frames behind you will never know, BUT fast paced games seem a bit harder and that guy on COD always seems to shoot you first....

You blame the game, you blame the lag and connection (probably 50 ms) but many don't realise the TV is adding almost the same delay to put the picture on the screen.

Want to know how to do well in online multiplayer twitch games - Play on an old CRT screen !

 

[geordiemp]

I don't notice it either. Amazing set, and they're discontinued, so you won't be able to find them for much longer.

How do you notice if you are 40 ms behind the action ?

Answer you don't, you just play worse.

 

[Tathanen]

The thing is, if you are a coiple of frames behind you will never know, BUT fast paced games seem a bit harder and that guy on COD always seems to shoot you first....

You blame the game, you blame the lag and connection (probably 50 ms) but many don't realise the TV is adding almost the same delay to put the picture on the screen.

Want to know how to do well in online multiplayer twitch games - Play on an old CRT screen !

I dunno, I've played a lot of Street Fighter 4 on this set, and I've never really felt like it wasn't doing what I wanted. (Now my FINGERS not doing what I wanted is another goddamned story entirely.)

For sure, though, LCD and CRT in particular will blow away plasma input lag. Just a matter of how sensitive you are to it, or what kind of games you play the most.

 

[Delt31]

Yup I also have a panny plasma (only 42 inch) - great TV, not bad input lag, but does get image retention which goes away eventually...My 905 rivals it almost for blacks and colour, has better input lag and I can play it all day without concern.

interesting to hear the 905 comparison as that's the tv I've been eyeing up. Your the third or so person that says the color/blacks etc can rival the panny but I would hope it would by far be better b/c the price is still high (1500 or so). I've decided to deal with the image retention b/c as you said it does go away and the input lag is pretty good so the price really makes a huge diff. If I blow 1500 and come home turn it on and say this looks just like or even worse, a little worse than my 500 panny, i would be pissed.

 

[michaelius]

How do you notice if you are 40 ms behind the action ?

Answer you don't, you just play worse.

Yes something like Wipeout HD is best at showing this. I could barely hit 50 zones on my living room tv then I moved my ps3 to gaming monitor with <1 frame lag and result improved greatly over few days.

Also shouldn't the first question before advising someone plasma TV be "do you have full control over lightning in your TV room" ?

 

[Applesauce]

How do you notice if you are 40 ms behind the action ?

Answer you don't, you just play worse.

I game on PC and have had it hooked up to both the VT60 and a 24" monitor in my room, I swap back and forth every few weeks, and I play all the same. It is a non-issue for me, plain and simple.

 

[geordiemp]

I game on PC and have had it hooked up to both the VT60 and a 24" monitor in my room, I swap back and forth every few weeks, and I play all the same. It is a non-issue for me, plain and simple.

It is for me, depends what you play. I would notice it in COD especially, and maybe games like ninja gaiden or wipeout HD.

Its hard to notice a couple of frames behind in many games...

I am an old git, I need every help I can get on reaction times in COD to keep my KD > 2......on a slow input TV I am crap

 

[geordiemp]

I dunno, I've played a lot of Street Fighter 4 on this set, and I've never really felt like it wasn't doing what I wanted. (Now my FINGERS not doing what I wanted is another goddamned story entirely.)

For sure, though, LCD and CRT in particular will blow away plasma input lag. Just a matter of how sensitive you are to it, or what kind of games you play the most.

Its not just tech type, some plasmas are faster than LCD, some LCD faster than plasma in lag.

I know that I avoid LG and Samsung LCD like the plague (for gaming), Sony always is fast (but some panels good, some crap), and Plasma can be either great / good or poor and pattern to it..

Only way I could choose is find TV I like, and google TV with words lag and leo bodnar..and look it up....

Its ironic that some of the expensive TV;s with great pictures for films and lots of blacker than black technology cant turn the crap off for games and just put the picture up as quick as possible....Sony are the only ones that 'get it'.

PS I have a Sony W905 / LG 770 and a panny plasma GT or VT cant remember. For gaming I would rate them as W905 >> Panny plasma > LG 770

 

[Zabojnik]

I like how my "W905A or VT60" post rekindled the immortal input lag debate, when this is in fact the least of my concerns when it comes to choosing one over the other. At one point I was even considering getting the ST60, but 60ms+ does seem a bit too much even for me. As far as I can tell I don't seem to be particularly sensible to this issue and I do most (if not all) of my competitive / online gaming on the PC these days anyway. I've always wondered what the input lag of my current TV (Sony Bravia KDL-40V2500) is ... Haven't noticed any lag at all over the years.

It's everything else that's holding me back from going plasma. Weight + hassle when moving the set, power consumption, sensitivity to room lighting, heat output and image retention. I think I could live with most of these small-ish downsides, but I'm not 100% sure that one or the other niggle won't start annoying me after a few weeks / months. I'm also not big on babysitting technical equipment, I'm more of a turn on & forget kinda guy. One silly example would be that I often fall asleep while watching TV. You know how it is, afternoon shift, you get home at 11pm, put on that episode you've been meaning to watch all day ... only to wake up three hours later to a brightly lit (dat LCD tech, amirite?) black screen.

As for what I'll be using the TV for ... after I get my hands on a PS4 my guess would be 60% movies and TV shows / 20% live television (mostly football) / 20% gaming.

Has anyone been in the exact same situation, in the end decided for plasma and hasn't regreted it in the slightest?

 

[camaropilot]

The 55" version is pretty fantastic from first hand experience, but you might've done better to wait... You got last years edge lit model. This years model is full array local dimming and is due out any time now.

Ya I agree I could have waited but $1300 was the top of my budget and I didn't want to go less than 60 inches for the size of the room it'll be in. The TV arrives on saturday so I'll be having a blast with it Saturday night. Cheers!

 

[Lima]

One silly example would be that I often fall asleep while watching TV. You know how it is, afternoon shift, you get home at 11pm, put on that episode you've been meaning to watch all day ... only to wake up three hours later to a brightly lit (dat LCD tech, amirite?) black screen.

Even though there is auto standby after several hours without remote input, sleep,timers and the VT actually has an intelligent standby that uses the camera to check if you are still facing the Tv with your eyes open (watch out NSA might be watching), don't get a plasma for this reason alone.

 

[OverHeat]

Going from a Pionner KURO 5020fd to a Sony KDL55W900 all I can say is plasma is overhype and as it share of problem too.

 

[lostsupper]

Going from a Pionner KURO 5020fd to a Sony KDL55W900 all I can say is plasma is overhype and as it share of problem too.

You said a mouthful, brother.

 

[whitemex88]

Going from a Pionner KURO 5020fd to a Sony KDL55W900 all I can say is plasma is overhype and as it share of problem too.

what kind of Stand is that. looks great.

 

[Russell]

Going from a Pionner KURO 5020fd to a Sony KDL55W900 all I can say is plasma is overhype and as it share of problem too.

Interesting.

I wouldn't trade my Pioneer KURO KRP-500M for the W900 even if you gave me an extra thousand bucks.

 

[OverHeat]

Interesting.

I wouldn't trade my Pioneer KURO KRP-500M for the W900 even if you gave me an extra thousand bucks.

Good for you. But my panel was starting to have the Red tint and it was driving me insane.

 

[Ostinatto]

Attention South American Gaffers.

The Sony W955A and the W900A are both the same product (2013). don't get confused with the W995B (2014).

KDL-55W900A

KDL-55W955A from the Brazilian Store.http://store.sony.com.br/br/site/ca...&category=televisores&tabNum=1&id=KDL-55W955A

KDL-55W955B

i will post my impressions tomorrow.

 

[Knight77]

My friends I need some advice for my next TV.

The current scenario is the following: the source is an HTPC connected to an AV Receiver and the current TV, a Sony 55HX855, is connected to that too. The HTPC is used for movies (Bluray Remux) and TV serial (1080P).

My questions are...

1) Looks like no announced TV is supporting Rec.2020, right? Is it gonna be a problem or a huge limitation?

2) Based on the scenario I exposed, when should I change the rest of the AV chain to support HDMI 2.0? I mean the 4K TV I'm interested about is gonna have it but should I also change the Videocard to one with HDMI 2.0? And what about the AV Receiver?

3) I am really interested in Sony X9005B (2014 4K model) but also the new Panasonic AX800 looks intersting. Any opinion about this comparison? If the Sony wouldn't have the big speakers I would not be sad at all since I've got a 5.1 system and I just watch movie and serials...

Hope you can help and suggest

 

[iMax]

I finally decide to get the 55" W905A over the 55" VT60, seeing how the later is 500 EUR more around here. Of course I then find the VT60 for roughly the same price. Aaaand I'm in decision hell again.

HELP.

There's no decision to be made. VT60.

Grab the Concorde of the television world while you still can. It won't be matched in performance for years to come.

 

[Joe_Incognito]

Up until very recently I was considering purchasing the Sony W600B, until I saw it in person. The build quality is terrible and so is the picture. Even when properly calibrated the motion quality is some of the worst I have seen on a TV in this price range. Also the light leaking around the frame is completely unacceptable.

Now I am considering stepping up to the Sony W800B. If anyone has any information or personal experience with this set please let me know.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Up until very recently I was considering purchasing the Sony W600B, until I saw it in person. The build quality is terrible and so is the picture. Even when properly calibrated the motion quality is some of the worst I have seen on a TV in this price range. Also the light leaking around the frame is completely unacceptable.

Now I am considering stepping up to the Sony W800B. If anyone has any information or personal experience with this set please let me know.

Oh damn, now I hope the person I told to go through with getting the W600B won't be unhappy with her choice.

I am seeing some pics about the light leaking, that is pretty bad yeah.

The 800B is mostly the same? I thought the biggest differences were the addition of 3D and a higher refresh rate. It does seem to have a better build quality and no light bleeding though.

Motion quality should be better because of the higher refresh rate.

Most people do still seem to be pretty happy with the TV.

 

[dejan]

So after a long back and forth, I finally went for the 55'' VT60. My strategy for the break-in has been so far (~120h in) running the Avatar and Pacific Rim Blu-ray while the tv is set to a low contrast (30) custom mode. I'm not running any slides. I think I'll keep this up until I reach at least 200h.

Invited a couple of friends the other day and we watched Pacific Rim on the set (THX mode) and we were all pretty blown away by the picture quality. I don't think anyone expected such a big difference compared to my old S20, but there it was and it was glorious.

 

[LilJoka]

Never broke in my Pioneer 4280xd and never had the slightest IR or burn in even with stupid amounts of static logos and images.

 

[MWS Natural]

What model was that ? I thought only LG has 4K OLED annouced for this year but it's still not released.

My mistake it was a 1080p OLED and another OLED set that was about twice that.

 

[h3ro]

So after a long back and forth, I finally went for the 55'' VT60. My strategy for the break-in has been so far (~120h in) running the Avatar and Pacific Rim Blu-ray while the tv is set to a low contrast (30) custom mode. I'm not running any slides. I think I'll keep this up until I reach at least 200h.

Invited a couple of friends the other day and we watched Pacific Rim on the set (THX mode) and we were all pretty blown away by the picture quality. I don't think anyone expected such a big difference compared to my old S20, but there it was and it was glorious.

Same set here and coincidentally, the first bluray I played for friends was also Pacific Rim! Huge leap up from my old Panny set, a 42" PZ700.

 

[Zabojnik]

Even though there is auto standby after several hours without remote input, sleep,timers and the VT actually has an intelligent standby that uses the camera to check if you are still facing the Tv with your eyes open (watch out NSA might be watching), don't get a plasma for this reason alone.

There's no decision to be made. VT60.

Grab the Concorde of the television world while you still can. It won't be matched in performance for years to come.

I'm seriously considering flipping a coin at this point.

 

[CREMSteve]

I'm seriously considering flipping a coin at this point.

I went VT60 and it's AMAZING.

I'm using the Professional 1 (I think) advanced video setting, very happy with the PQ.

 

[Tinzo]

should i buy a 1080p tv (i have a 720p tv and projector at home) or keep it and spend that money on the sony VR when is released?

 

[Applesauce]

I'm seriously considering flipping a coin at this point.

Sellers are already price gouging for the VT60 here in the US. You better act quick, they have been discontinued.

And I am sure Lima was joking with the camera and NSA thing.

 

[Hattori]

Up until very recently I was considering purchasing the Sony W600B, until I saw it in person. The build quality is terrible and so is the picture. Even when properly calibrated the motion quality is some of the worst I have seen on a TV in this price range. Also the light leaking around the frame is completely unacceptable.

Now I am considering stepping up to the Sony W800B. If anyone has any information or personal experience with this set please let me know.

I'm a new w800b owner.
- excellent blacks and PQ, best I've seen from a non-plasma display.
- turn of any Eco settings if you want deep blacks and vivid colors.
- turn off Adv. Contrast Enhancer, it looks nice at first but it does get distracting.
- don't use motionflow on anything other than Anime/Pixar movies/24p Blurays.
- does not need direct line of sight to operate.
- powering up and accessing media functions are quite slow.
- it can play almost any media file I threw at it, although it takes a while to load.
I'm probably missing some other stuff but if you have any further question, just let me know.

edit: It has excellent build quality (I believe it's got an aluminum body). No light leaks, no banding.

 

[redhoodedjacket]

have a noob question. i have a 32" samsung la32b350f1 and i've been meaning to upgrade to a sony kdl42w654a. i was wondering about this old unit, if it can output to 1080p? cos when i connect it to my ps3 it detects the 1080p output. also, when i switch back to 720p, which is supposedly the tv's native resolution, the image becomes blurrier. just wanted to know this before i go buy the new set, want to hold off till maybe a couple more months.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

have a noob question. i have a 32" samsung la32b350f1 and i've been meaning to upgrade to a sony kdl42w654a. i was wondering about this old unit, if it can output to 1080p? cos when i connect it to my ps3 it detects the 1080p output. also, when i switch back to 720p, which is supposedly the tv's native resolution, the image becomes blurrier. just wanted to know this before i go buy the new set, want to hold off till maybe a couple more months.

I'm guessing the TV's native resolution is 1360x768, 720p is close but not a 1:1 match so the image becomes blurred. 720p on a real 720p display looks pretty good.

 

[redhoodedjacket]

I'm guessing the TV's native resolution is 1360x768, 720p is close but not a 1:1 match so the image becomes blurred. 720p on a real 720p display looks pretty good.

Thanks for the response, I checked the specs again and you're right. So when it says 1080p, it's actually outputting a downsampled image to fit the native resolution of the tv, correct?

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Yeah that's right then.

 

[TheLegendary]

How/where are people (in the US) finding Panasonic plasmas?

 

[Prophet Steve]

How/where are people (in the US) finding Panasonic plasmas?

From what have I read, not at all anymore. Maybe there are a few local stores or something, but it doesn't really seem to be in stock anywhere on any websites in North America.

 

[lostinblue]

Oh damn, now I hope the person I told to go through with getting the W600B won't be unhappy with her choice.

I am seeing some pics about the light leaking, that is pretty bad yeah.

The 800B is mostly the same? I thought the biggest differences were the addition of 3D and a higher refresh rate. It does seem to have a better build quality and no light bleeding though.

Motion quality should be better because of the higher refresh rate.

Most people do still seem to be pretty happy with the TV.

That settles it.

It's a pity W705B are not available in US.

 

[Prophet Steve]

That settles it.

It's a pity W705B are not available in US.

I think I saw a mention of it also being 60 Hz so I think it has the same motion problems? I am not sure though. Haven't looked at that model, but I think I saw something like that

 

[lostinblue]

W705B is a W650A with 4 HDMI, it is therefore 120 Hz panel, no question.

W605B might be 60 Hz though, which is a pity but explains just how crappy it apparently is.

 

[sladeums]

How/where are people (in the US) finding Panasonic plasmas?

Some Sears and Best Buy stores have floor models ... maybe a couple new ones here and there.
All are in-store only, no shipping.

I posted some links a few weeks ago where you can check Sears :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=106830278&postcount=6849

For Best Buy it would be listed in their Clearance section :
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/electronics/clearance/pcmcat142300050026.c?id=pcmcat142300050026


They also pop up on Amazon Warehouse Deals on rare occasion but pricing and condition is all over the place.
I got a 50S60 from them last month for $650, ended up being new as far as I can tell.
http://www.amazon.com/Televisions-P...7001011&bbn=1294446011&ie=UTF8&qid=1398290824

 

[Russell]

Good for you. But my panel was starting to have the Red tint and it was driving me insane.

I see. My panel also had the red tint and elevated black level, but I did the 'reset,' and the red tint is gone and the black level is deeper than when I first bought it.

 

[OverHeat]

I see. My panel also had the red tint and elevated black level, but I did the 'reset,' and the red tint is gone and the black level is deeper than when I first bought it.

The voltage is not what is supposed to be for the age of the panel when you do the reset hope you don't damage your set.

 

[tariniel]

So, I don't currently own a TV. I have consoles and watch netflix and such but it's always on my PC monitors, which are very nice.

However, I am considering getting a TV since my living room is... empty. It may be nice to watch a movie or play a PS3 game on a bigger screen, on a couch, instead of hunched over my desk.

My question, is where do I start? I don't really want to spend more than $6-700, and I don't know if I particularly care if it's LED or Plasma, as long as it looks good. I'm reluctant to just walk into a bestbuy and buy something because I'm sure I'll come to regret it. The room it will go in is fairly small and not very well lit, if that matters at all.

 

[gatti-man]

Going from a Pionner KURO 5020fd to a Sony KDL55W900 all I can say is plasma is overhype and as it share of problem too.

Not the Kuro. Its designed to be played in a dim/dark room. If you crowd lights around it like that setup it will look less impressive. That setup is made for LCD. But all things being equal the kuro IS superior.

 

[Tathanen]

How/where are people (in the US) finding Panasonic plasmas?

Individual sellers, basically. People with lightly used sets, or people who bought up stock when the sets were discontinued, and are sitting on a few NIB sets for resale.

 

[Zabojnik]

Not the Kuro. Its designed to be played in a dim/dark room. If you crowd lights around it like that setup it will look less impressive. That setup is made for LCD. But all things being equal the kuro IS superior.

What is the ideal lighting for watching a plasma anyway? How dark should the room be? Watching a LCD in total darkness is like looking at a small sun and the blacks are just awful. I'm planning on moving my HT stuff to a different side of the living room and it'll be as good a time as any to look into setting up proper lighting conditions.