Tatsumi Oga
Banned
With the EC9300 is it possible to uninstall firmware?
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
draughn101
Member
Are you having issues with yours?
FrankNitty
Member
Just curious why is that? I am more a panasonic man personally so I can kind of identify and outside of their OLEDS the only LG model I have owned outside of this OLED is an LH90 which was a good FALD back in the day.
Just curious is it something against a them as a manufacture?
I personally shop by model not manufacture cause you can have a so so manufacture but they may have that one model that is stellar in every aspect. It's rare but it happens.
MaxwellParrish
Member
I don't have anything against LG but I am waiting with impatience that some other brand join them in the production of OLED tv. While their models are great they still seem to have some disadvantage respect to other tv on the market expecially in terms of motion handling and fine control of the colours. I am curious to see if others would be able to overcome this defects while keeping the strenghts of the LG OLEDs' or if it something somewhat inherent to the nature of the OLED panels, at least for how they are produced now.
PS : and I really want a flat screen at a reasonable price, a normal FullHD for me is perfectly fine.
PS : and I really want a flat screen at a reasonable price, a normal FullHD for me is perfectly fine.
DangerMouse
Member
As BlizzyAzz said, check out the nice Rtings review. It's an awesome TV, I got it through Crutchfield when it came out a couple of months back, I think it has excellent bang for your buck.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Nah no issues with the TV itself except that i rather go back to the old UI. I like the quick buttons on the right now, but it takes longer to simply go to the general settings of everything. And i see no other improvements, so i might as well go back. But i doubt it's possible.
Something i found really odd....
I fired up my Sony receiver/BluRay player and it always shows a dark grey screen, it showed tons of horribly ugly green vertical banding, holy shit that was bad. However....when i access my external HDD and i load up several different grey background i see nothing, except for the very faint green tinge. Very strange.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
They are the ones that will be making those OLED panels for many others. They already do for the upcoming Panasonic OLED.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Well so far i've only been Netflixing on the 9300, mostly watching Hell on Wheels and for streaming i am damn impressed. Shit i really should finally check out some Blu Rays this weekend....for the first time on it.
Ok so i have been playing some AC Unity and when i look in the sky i can definitely spot some stuff that shouldn't be there. There seems go be a pink effect and also a green tinge. Definitely only visible in the bright sky. Heh...bummer.
Not enough to return it though and risk getting a set with worse effects.
general_garcia
Member
That's my experience as well, it's completely unforgiving, in a good way.
I got my 930V (EC9300) professionally calibrated by a chap from the AVForums review team today, and holy shit... ridiculous. It's relatively accurate out of the box, but with all the greyscale and colour errors minimised, this thing is incredible. Never seen detail like it, and that includes all the 4K demo footage I watched on the new Samsung, Panasonic and Sony LED sets when trying to figure out which tv to buy. OLED is the real deal.
4K Blu-Ray may well decimate this on even a mid-tier LCD TV in a couple of years, but the calibrated results convinced me high bit-rate, properly calibrated 1080p will be totally fine on this technology for a good while.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I watched Captain America: The Winter Soldier on Blu-ray 3D tonight. The 3D upconversion done on that movie is a bit uneven but action sequences definitely had the 3D pop. I love watching 3D content on my TV because of the full-resolution 1080p passive 3D on my Sony 4K TV. You LG 4K OLED owners know what's up with that too since I think you guys also have full-res passive 3D, it's just great.
Any well-calibrated TV will show the many flaws in streaming, doesn't matter if it's LCD, plasma, or OLED. Some genuinely stupid people keep wishing Blu-ray and physical media formats would die, they're too stupid to realize they are cutting their noses off to spite their faces.
Samsung made OLED sets for a few years and decided to pull back until they could improve on their version of the technology which uses actual RGB OLEDs instead of what LG does which is use white OLEDs with color filters overlaid.
If Samsung ever gets their technology sorted, their OLED technology will be far superior to LG's.
That's a big if though. Their tiny phone OLEDs are still susceptible to burn-in and that's on screens which are on for far less duration during their lifetimes than TV panels are expected to be on.
LG is basically kludging the technology to produce their OLED TVs. And judging from reports of the technical issues the LG OLEDs have, I would say it's still LG quality at heart. Which is to say, vastly inferior to Samsung. Which isn't that good to begin with.
Any well-calibrated TV will show the many flaws in streaming, doesn't matter if it's LCD, plasma, or OLED. Some genuinely stupid people keep wishing Blu-ray and physical media formats would die, they're too stupid to realize they are cutting their noses off to spite their faces.
Samsung made OLED sets for a few years and decided to pull back until they could improve on their version of the technology which uses actual RGB OLEDs instead of what LG does which is use white OLEDs with color filters overlaid.
If Samsung ever gets their technology sorted, their OLED technology will be far superior to LG's.
That's a big if though. Their tiny phone OLEDs are still susceptible to burn-in and that's on screens which are on for far less duration during their lifetimes than TV panels are expected to be on.
LG is basically kludging the technology to produce their OLED TVs. And judging from reports of the technical issues the LG OLEDs have, I would say it's still LG quality at heart. Which is to say, vastly inferior to Samsung. Which isn't that good to begin with.
Need to replace my old 42" Panasonic plasma. The width of the new TV set shouldn't exceed 1200 mm, I was thinking of purchasing the new LG EG910V oled but it's too large (2 cm over the limit). Any good alternative in the 50" range? I was eyeing the Sony KDL-50W807c, is it any good for gaming/blue-ray use? Any suggestion will be appreciated.
Jigolo
Member
Samsung JU7500
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Did he come to your place or did he tell you the settings? I am quite curious about the settings then.
Sola Scriptura
Member
Any more info on input lag on the 2015 LG OLEDs from those who have them?
I remember reading this from IFA 2014..
http://www.cnet.com/news/lg-says-white-oled-gives-it-ten-years-on-tv-competition/
"LG's investment in white OLED might be ready to pay off as the company achieves high production quantities for its 4K OLED TVs while competitors using RGB OLED still struggle to achieve viable yield levels to go mainstream with the screen technology."
Speaking with Ken Hong, LG's Global Communications Director, at IFA 2014, CNET learned of LG's decision to capitalise on Kodak's white OLED technology, which could put the company ahead of its rivals into the next decade.
"The fact that nobody is even chasing us on that is an amazing benefit," says Hong. "An advantage that we'll probably feel for ten years. No one will catch us for 2-3 years, that's a pretty big lead."
"When we bought the rights to white OLED from Kodak nobody else thought that was going to be a successful business," says Hong. "We were the only ones who said 'Hey, let's put some money down on that.' Nobody fought us for that. It's an interesting history. Kodak developed this white OLED and now that allows us to get this 80 percent plus yield."
Kodak had been the leading developer of OLED technology for decades and in 2004 announced its white OLED breakthrough. LG purchased the OLED business from Kodak for $100 million in December 2009. While projections at the time didn't see much potential, 2013 estimates suggest a 55-inch panel costs half as much to produce using white OLED compared to RGB OLED.
See CNET's 'What is OLED TV?' primer for more technical details.
"The reason other companies have said they're going to put OLED on hold, it's because their yields are pitiful," says Hong. "Now they're all saying 'No, consumers aren't ready.' No, I don't think consumers are not ready, I think they're not ready. They don't know how to do it, they missed the boat and now the ones who are stuck with regular RGB OLED are never going to get 80 percent."
"I think lining up OLED crystals using RGB technology is just an impossibility to make money on. It can be done. AMOLED is RGB technology, but it's small. When you get to that large TV size there's a lot of errors."
LG's new 4K OLED TVs have so far launched in Korea and will soon become more widely available. According to Hong, the hard part for LG right now is selling the benefits to buyers.
"They know what 4K is, they know what OLED is, why do I want both? Why something that expensive? I think that's going to be the initial response," says Hong. "We have to educate people because we are the only ones with this product. No one else is going to be helping us. We're the ones responsible for promoting 4K OLED. It's going to be a tough, tough sell unless we can do that marketing."
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It's just so frustrating that LG are the only OLED mass producing company out there, I can't stand them, they've produced crap TV's for years. And all these issues they have having, comes down to the LG quality. Looks like I'm going LCD next year.
Thickstone
Member
I'm currently debating whether I should sell my old 720p LG TV and buy a proper HD TV.
Would you guys say that the upgrade is noticeable enough to justify the cost? I've been very pleased with the increase in asset quality the new console gen brought but I'm unsure whether the increase in resolution is really _that_ important.
Thoughts?
Would you guys say that the upgrade is noticeable enough to justify the cost? I've been very pleased with the increase in asset quality the new console gen brought but I'm unsure whether the increase in resolution is really _that_ important.
Thoughts?
pretty sure you won't be able to get crap for that TV. $$
but yeah i went from a $1000 37" Samsung LCD 1080p I bought in 2009 to a $500 43" Vizio 2015 4k that many gaffers recommended for a budget TV.
huge huge difference, especially with blacks. everything just looks so much better. also, my old TV had huge bezels, while this has barely any. really loving that.
definitely get a bigger size if you can, makes it feel like a "bigger" upgrade so to speak, besides the picture improvements.
Oh yeah, the picture on it is just mind blowing. Games look absolutely stunning. I know it sounds crazy, but it feels like you just upgraded to a whole new generation of consoles. Everything just looks so clean, and the colors and contrast are better than anything I've ever seen before.
Let us know what you think!
Ok so i have been playing some AC Unity and when i look in the sky i can definitely spot some stuff that shouldn't be there. There seems go be a pink effect and also a green tinge. Definitely only visible in the bright sky. Heh...bummer.
Not enough to return it though and risk getting a set with worse effects.
I'm sorry to hear that. My panel (9300) developed a stuck red pixel that turned into a dead pixel just this past week. Here's hoping it won't get any worse.
Pagusas
Elden Member
That's exactly how I feel. Literally the worst possible company to have this tech under lock and key. Such a shitty brand.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Damn. Don't LG give you warrantee on that?
Not with just one defective pixel, no. The LG rep I contacted told me they could push for a replacement if the one dead pixel becomes 5 or 7, but that's unlikely to happen.
Thinking about pulling the trigger on a Vizio M55 and possibly waiting a few more weeks for black Friday deals. I'm coming from a Samsung LN40C530, which has been fine for the past number of years but 4K, a larger screen size, and the newer nearly bezel-less designs are the reasons I'm wanting to upgrade.
My primary uses for a TV are first and foremost PS4, followed by Netflix, Youtube, and possibly some BluRay movies. That's it. No cable. Will the M55 succeed in handling those areas? Also, I plan on being about 8 feet away from TV. Is this too close for a 55"?
My primary uses for a TV are first and foremost PS4, followed by Netflix, Youtube, and possibly some BluRay movies. That's it. No cable. Will the M55 succeed in handling those areas? Also, I plan on being about 8 feet away from TV. Is this too close for a 55"?
Sola Scriptura
Member
I'm really, REALLY wanting to pull the trigger on the LG 65EF9500, but I'm still concerned that there isn't a definitive consensus on how manageable the input lag is.
Also, how much of a difference does the screen size make? For example, is it worth it to go with, say, the 2015 Vizio M-Series 75-in. just for the extra size?
Help me out, fellow TV GAF!
Also, how much of a difference does the screen size make? For example, is it worth it to go with, say, the 2015 Vizio M-Series 75-in. just for the extra size?
Help me out, fellow TV GAF!
Are you still enjoying your M55? I'm thinking about getting one soon.
draughn101
Member
Yea it's still pretty good. I've upgraded to an LG OLED, only because we needed a second TV. I've had a few more posts on here describing how much I like the Vizio. I've lost a few buttons from my remote but that's about my only complaint. I think it's a great deal for the price.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Unknown Soldier
Member
The funny thing is they don't. It's just that only LG are on the market with white OLEDs while everyone else has either given up on RGB OLEDs (Japan) or are working to improve it before returning to the market (Samsung). I mean if you want to spend Sony money on LG quality that's your own lookout. I'll wait for someone other than LG to get back in the game with OLED TV, my Sony 65X900A isn't going anywhere in the meantime.
I set up a 55" JS7000 for a client this week and it genuinely surprised me. I've never cared for Samsung's LCDs partly because they've always used VA panels and this model year has been no different. I've done everything from their cheap 5 series right on through to the 9/9500 series and have personally disliked them all both immediately out of the box and after dialing in ideal picture settings. I've been a plasma guy for as long as I've owned flat panels and can't stand the blurring/ghosting/smearing/generally poor motion handling of VA panels. (and this has unfortunately carried over to OLED, but hopefully this is improved as the technology matures)
So, the JS7000. It didn't occur to me to even check what kind of panel it was using since I can't even recall a Samsung LCD that doesn't use VA, but the second I started setting up the sources I was shocked. Nice, clean motion with atypically well saturated colors for a Sammy. I knew that this was a newish model and the first of this one in particular that I've done, so were they using a new processing methodology that finally brought the tech to the motion resolution promise land? It was my first job of the day, so had my coffee just not kicked in yet? I had more jobs lined up and didn't want to dick around for too long with a client's brand new television, so I finished up and got out of there.
Well, good news! I'm not going crazy. I took to Google today and the 55" version does indeed employ an IPS panel. However, in staying with one of the more obnoxious trends that has forever plagued the LCD market, the 50" and 60" versions of the JS7000 feature entirely differently performing tech -- VA panels. I can't believe that Samsung (and to a lesser extent Sony) still pulls that shit every year.
Anywho, this is indeed interesting news as it may (and hopefully will) set a precedent. It's a fact that IPS panels don't have native blacks or uniformity as good as VA panels, but for those who prioritize clean motion, color saturation, and/or wide viewing angles having some options from the manufacturer with the largest model lineup is a good thing.
Personally, I'm going to seek some more hands on time with this model. I should be moving in the spring and will need a second TV to throw in the basement. If I like what I see after extended testing and it hits a good price point I'll bite. The only thing that's baffling in this day and age is the lack of 24p support, but watching movies is what my 65" plasma is for. I'd be using it for gaming and light TV watching/video streaming in a well lit environment. Also, 55" was the maximum size I wanted since larger screens tend to be hard on my eyes during some gaming and input lag is manageable at around 27ms, so on paper the right boxes are ticked.
*Personal opinions here. Don't let me stop you from enjoying your televisions, VA owners.
So, the JS7000. It didn't occur to me to even check what kind of panel it was using since I can't even recall a Samsung LCD that doesn't use VA, but the second I started setting up the sources I was shocked. Nice, clean motion with atypically well saturated colors for a Sammy. I knew that this was a newish model and the first of this one in particular that I've done, so were they using a new processing methodology that finally brought the tech to the motion resolution promise land? It was my first job of the day, so had my coffee just not kicked in yet? I had more jobs lined up and didn't want to dick around for too long with a client's brand new television, so I finished up and got out of there.
Well, good news! I'm not going crazy. I took to Google today and the 55" version does indeed employ an IPS panel. However, in staying with one of the more obnoxious trends that has forever plagued the LCD market, the 50" and 60" versions of the JS7000 feature entirely differently performing tech -- VA panels. I can't believe that Samsung (and to a lesser extent Sony) still pulls that shit every year.
Anywho, this is indeed interesting news as it may (and hopefully will) set a precedent. It's a fact that IPS panels don't have native blacks or uniformity as good as VA panels, but for those who prioritize clean motion, color saturation, and/or wide viewing angles having some options from the manufacturer with the largest model lineup is a good thing.
Personally, I'm going to seek some more hands on time with this model. I should be moving in the spring and will need a second TV to throw in the basement. If I like what I see after extended testing and it hits a good price point I'll bite. The only thing that's baffling in this day and age is the lack of 24p support, but watching movies is what my 65" plasma is for. I'd be using it for gaming and light TV watching/video streaming in a well lit environment. Also, 55" was the maximum size I wanted since larger screens tend to be hard on my eyes during some gaming and input lag is manageable at around 27ms, so on paper the right boxes are ticked.
*Personal opinions here. Don't let me stop you from enjoying your televisions, VA owners.
Well since this is a gaming forum, I can start there. The lag is crazy outside of game. It's very evident imho, more than I've experienced before. It's perhaps that you deal with upconversion along with the other usual processing tricks. Switch it to a game mode and it feels cut in a third and it's very tolerable I think. It's not pc monitor response, but for a tv it's acceptable I think to anyone that's not a pro competitive gamer or those who demand the same as them.
That said, the IQ is insane. I did a quick calibration since its not broken in yet (needs 200-400hrs on these sets supposedly) and Damn, this set is incredible. I'd agree that you said it feels like a quasi hardware leap. It's enhancement is insane. It's motion handling is great too, surprisingly being a LG.
Movies is another segment, and w/o seeing the Panasonic oled, this is the new benchmark for tv's, no doubt.The review hype is real. Only seeing it in showrooms prior to in your house and settings taste it's another beast all together. I knew oled was great from seeing it before, but even now I can say it is superior, and it's not even close to broken in or calibrated fully. I said it before, I'll say it again, this is the "next gen" of display tech. Now I just need a oled pc monitor with pure gaming attributes.
I somehow got a flawless set. No yellow band. Hell nearly zero flaming with the low percent frames, looks better than the best pics I've seen on avs forums. Checking out the Life of Pi HDR clip, it's spectacular. That OLED color, contrast, and HDR is amazing.
I hope Sony gets on board with OLED soon. They had the first consumer OLED, their studio monitors won awards. They need to do this. I know Samsung will be doing one soon, they got set back because they bet on the wrong OLED configuration/tech, I would not be surprised to see them show one this year.
I'll say it, this is the true next Kuro.
In terms of black level, sure. It surpasses the Kuros. (even post-D-Nice 500M/101FD tweak)
In terms of overall performance, no. OLED is somewhat an LCD replacement but not a plasma replacement until it can match its motion resolution.
Sola Scriptura
Member
Regarding input lag, could you define "very tolerable"?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Green tinge on 9300 seems to happen on some gradients if you use the "Wide" color gamut. I think for games Wide looks better 99% of the time as it makes green hues (grass etc) look awesome and lively, but it seems to ruin some tricky gradients. For example lots of scenes in The Order 1886 get this weird green tinge on everything if you use Wide color gamut. However, to disable Wide color gamut, you have to use Expert mode. So you pretty much have to use PC+Expert. I'm not sure what the input lag is on that combo, but it didn't seem noticeably different than PC+Game combo that I normally use.Ok so i have been playing some AC Unity and when i look in the sky i can definitely spot some stuff that shouldn't be there. There seems go be a pink effect and also a green tinge. Definitely only visible in the bright sky. Heh...bummer.
Cloggerdude
Member
And this is the reason I'm going to hold onto my KURO PRO-141FD (60") for a bit longer. I had considered selling it and grabbing a 55" OLED, but the performance just isn't there yet. I think I might give it another year and then go for it though.
draughn101
Member
So I was going to swap my EC9300 with Amazon because of the weird image retention issues that I was having. Amazon says they are no longer stocking this and can't directly swap for the EC9300.
They are offering to upgrade me to the EG9100 for $100. Should I do that?
They are offering to upgrade me to the EG9100 for $100. Should I do that?
Cloggerdude
Member
There are some slight differences between the two, but they have extremely similar performance. That being said, I would push against the $100 "upgrade" fee. The EG9100 regularly sells for ~$1,500 on other sites.
draughn101
Member
Is it inferior in any way? I have the ability to buy the EC9300 from a different seller on Amazon for what I paid for the one I have. Figured the newer one would be the way to go.
As in I won't necessarily lose a shootout in a fps and could snipe effectively (lead +headshot). Now if it's in non-gaming, then the lag is almost able to be counted without a meter program just via a trigger pull. It was horrific. Even noticeable in character movement doing 180 sweeps, it was that bad. Put it a game setting though, it wasn't far off from my ST plasma.
Since in my old age I don't feel like I have to play competitively all the time, the picture quality is more valuable, and it is that flat out incredible. If I'm playing something competitively it's on my PC anyways. I console game casually. I will drag my PC down one of these days though just for fun, probably when I'm done with this semester of school.
It can do roughly 600 lines which is fine I think. It's not the best, but it's pretty good. I think it suffers less motion issues than the Samsungs which can be super jarring, but not as good as the upper Sony models. The Samsung's I'm not sure what's going on with them this year. I think last year's 8550 was better in this regard.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yes, with proper setup, there is literally 0 light output coming from the black color on this TV. I honestly consider the motion resolution measurings of Plasma TVs to be kind of bunk. I mean, they resolve the XYZ number of lines, but by doing so introduce the green/yellow trails behind any contrasting colors. The EC9300 can't resolve as many lines as a plasma, but it doesn't have those weird trails. Also, when using the de-blur motion setting, EC produces an incredibly clear motion (without inserting any extra frames) - far surpassing my panny plasma - of course at the expense of input lag. But that setting can comfortably be used for videos at least.
Cloggerdude
Member
Take this with a grain of salt, since it's been a while since I've looked, but I believe the only big differences are 3 HDMI ports on the 9100 vs 4 ports on the 9300, and slightly weaker speakers on the 9100 (20 watts vs 40 watts). Both of those are basically non-factors to me, since I use a receiver, but they might be a big deal to you.
A decent chunk of people have said that the quality control on the 9100's is a bit higher. Less dimples and such, which "plagued" some of the 9300's. Like I said though, the 9100 definitely isn't an upgrade on its own, unless you've just had horrible luck with panel quality on the 9300's.
draughn101
Member
Yea those aren't really issues for me. I have been impressed with the quality of the 9300 so far, besides the odd image retention deal that no one else seems to have. I don't want to make the switch to find out that LG cut a bunch of corners on the new model. I'm having trouble finding real reviews out there.
Have you seen anything about input lag? If you could buy either, which one do you get?
Smart man. I sold both my 101FD and 6020 because I bumped up to a 65" and didn't have the room for a second large television in my current apartment. I should've just stored the 101 in the basement until I moved. Live and learn.
Yes. Trails were a problem... on my 2008 Panasonic. Both Kuros, my current late-model Panasonic, and my friend's F8500 all pass(ed) even the Sin City test with ease.
And I installed another 9300 as recently as two weeks ago. It is indeed a choice between interpolation and blur/excess judder. But don't let me stop you from enjoying your television because it clearly has its upsides.
Edit: but I understand that some are more sensitive than others to different driving methodology. My eyes just happen to loath sample-and-hold.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The trails are far less of an issue with 24FPS content though. It's really in 60FPS games that they start looking ugly. Real test would be something like Unfinished Swan on PS4, which on my 85U looked unbearable basically.
I don't really mean using interpolation as in inserting new frames. I mean using de-blur option which as far as I can see doesn't create any new frames, but produces incredibly blur-free output (at the expense of input lag). As for any kind of judder on this TV, I don't see a problem in PC mode, that disables any video processing. I did see a problem from time to time in non-PC mode with "Real Cinema" (which creates real 24hz cadenza), so I decided to just stick with PC mode.
You are a professional installer, right? I'd like to hear your opinion on gamma setting on EC9300. In my case at least, if I want to have pure 0 black on this TV, along with high brightness that it's capable of, I settled on using gamma at Low, and then lowering brightness to about 50 where the TV starts producing pire black no matter how high oled light and contrast you set. I see that this setting is practically never recommended on AVS forums, but it's the only setting that let me have pure black along with high oled light and high contrast and no shadow detail loss. If I keep gamma at medium, I have to crank brightness really high to combat shadow detail loss, but in that case the perfect black is lost, as the TV starts emitting some visible light from black areas.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I have been using the PC + Expert 1 combo for the most time. I'll look into the colour gamut, i believe it is indeed on wide yeah.
I went to a friend's house today and he has a Sony W829b and to be honest, i was surprised what a damn crystal clear picture that TV can bring. I have to be perfectly honest now, it actually looked even more crisp than the EC9300. Of course black levels wise the EC9300 will win, but the games i saw clearly were noticeably crisper than the OLED, which surprised me. Could be because i use the PC + Expert 1 combo and maybe that takes a little away from the overall PQ for a better input lag, but yeah.
Cloggerdude
Member
I hate to tell you either way, honestly. If it were me....I'd probably get the 9100. Simply because there seem to be less panel issues with those. I haven't read anything that has mentioned differences in lag between the two. Some people were initially saying that the 9100 might handle motion a bit better, but I believe that was just heresay.
Again though, I'm completely basing my choice off of second hand information. As I mentioned earlier, I'm still holding onto my KURO for now. I really don't think you'll notice much of a difference either way though.
draughn101
Member
That's probably what I'll do. I think the faster processors will be better in the long run, and maybe reduce input lag at some point with firmware updates.