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[EpicallyBald]

I'm doing the same thing with my Sharp Elite. I have the 60'' and only gaining 5'' for the price seems rough, although its OLED. Can't justify the price and size. Also trying to explain this to the GF that paying all this money and were only getting 5''. Unfortunately this time size does matter...

 

[Fitts]

The trails are far less of an issue with 24FPS content though. It's really in 60FPS games that they start looking ugly. Real test would be something like Unfinished Swan on PS4, which on my 85U looked unbearable basically.

Assuming you mean the PZ85U? I had the same TV in 50" and you're right, that TV trailed like crazy. I also had a PE8U (720p holiday model with a lovely matte bezel) and a G10 (part of one of the most horribly mismanaged product lines and the beginning of the end for Panasonic as a premier television manufacturer) and they both had their issues as well -- though improved on the G10.

You are a professional installer, right? I'd like to hear your opinion on gamma setting on EC9300. In my case at least, if I want to have pure 0 black on this TV, along with high brightness that it's capable of, I settled on using gamma at Low, and then lowering brightness to about 50 where the TV starts producing pire black no matter how high oled light and contrast you set. I see that this setting is practically never recommended on AVS forums, but it's the only setting that let me have pure black along with high oled light and high contrast and no shadow detail loss. If I keep gamma at medium, I have to crank brightness really high to combat shadow detail loss, but in that case the perfect black is lost, as the TV starts emitting some visible light from black areas.

At the moment I do mostly major appliances but also do a fair amount of televisions. (although, I've been an enthusiast for around a decade) However, I'm not currently supplied with a colorimeter and, therefore, do not provide proper calibrations.

AVS can be a good jumpoff point but do consider the source. If it's a trusted calibrator like, say, D-Nice or Chad B then I would take their input into consideration. With my own calibrations, I've never compromised MLL (aka native black level) but instead made concessions with maximum light output where necessary. If I had to guess your "low" setting is putting your gamma anywhere from 2.2-2.4 while your "mid" setting is hitting above 2.4. The former seems more correct to me based on what you've written, but again I've never performed a proper calibration of this television. In addition, do ensure that you set any black extensions/enhancers/etc to off as 99% of the time these do more harm than good. Also, ensure that your display and source do not have mismatched RGB outputs. When calibrating a television, you should be prioritizing 16-235. Digging below video black isn't necessarily a bad thing, but extending to zero shouldn't be a goal (in most situations) and absolutely do not attempt to increase your light output at the expense of clipping whites.

If I were in your position, I would figure out what's going to maintain that zero minimum luminance first, sort out the color/grayscale range, and then increase light output to find your non-damaging maximum last. If this maximum output isn't to your liking initially then I would implore you to give it a week before making compromises elsewhere, but in the end it's your television so you're the one who needs to be happy with it.

 

[BlizzyAzz]

flatpanelshd.com Exclusive: LG talks future of OLED & first details on 2016 OLED TVs

First details on 2016 OLED TVs
The new line-up of OLED TVs that will go on sale in spring 2016 is more or less decided and final by now. The TVs were on display in Korea for internal use only and despite our best efforts we were not allowed to peek. The TVs will be unveiled to the public for the first time at CES in Las Vegas this coming January.

LG will focus on 4K, HDR (high dynamic range) and a wider color space, one of LG’s engineers, Haengjoon Kang, told FlatpanelsHD in an interview.

As for HDR, LG said that "light level will be increased a lot" and even goes so far as to say "nearly two times". Today, LG's OLED TVs can achieve a maximum brightness of about 400 nits, while flagship LCDs reach approximately 700-800 nits. The maximum brightness level is of course only one component for HDR - black levels are at least as important - but many in the industry argue that HDR should be reproduced with bright highlights - for example sun reflections - of up to 800-1200 nits.

Check the link for the full article and a couple of videos.

 

[FrankNitty]

flatpanelshd.com Exclusive: LG talks future of OLED & first details on 2016 OLED TVs



Check the link for the full article and a couple of videos.

Pretty much what I expected and guessed a few posts back.

That's really the only things I can see happening this coming model year, and I still don't expect them to be at 100% DCI. I would guess maybe 97% at the highest.

 

[Jigolo]

So who's displays are Apple using in the new iMacs which cover 100% p3?

 

[BlizzyAzz]

So who's displays are Apple using in the new iMacs which cover 100% p3?

According to iFixit, Apple is using a new ultra high-resolution panel from LG capable of reproducing a DCI P3 colorspace, meaning the 4K iMac screen technically covers a much wider color gamut than competitors.

http://appleinsider.com

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Anyone have any idea on expectations for Black Friday? I'm looking to get a new TV in the range of 65 inches to 75. I've seen a few nice ones at Best Buy from Samsung and Sony in range of $2,500 to $3,000. Does anyone have recommendations? I keep seeing huge savings on Sharp, are those shit?

 

[Sola Scriptura]

Anyone have any idea on expectations for Black Friday? I'm looking to get a new TV in the range of 65 inches to 75. I've seen a few nice ones at Best Buy from Samsung and Sony in range of $2,500 to $3,000. Does anyone have recommendations? I keep seeing huge savings on Sharp, are those shit?

Depends on how much you're willing to spend. I doubt you'll see large discounts on any top-tier sets from the major manufacturers. Probably their mid-tier and lower-tier lineups.

 

[Jigolo]

http://appleinsider.com

I guess it's harder for larger screens?

 

[J-Rzez]

Anyone have any idea on expectations for Black Friday? I'm looking to get a new TV in the range of 65 inches to 75. I've seen a few nice ones at Best Buy from Samsung and Sony in range of $2,500 to $3,000. Does anyone have recommendations? I keep seeing huge savings on Sharp, are those shit?

I like the Sony's like the 850/930/940C. The 850C is pretty well balanced and speced for the money. The 65" is usually in the low-2000's, 75" in the mid-high $3000. Samsungs have far too much judder imho. The 8500 isn't bad, but it's too pricey, the 850C is similar, and better priced usually.

Sharp sold their TV line/rights in the US to Hisense, who knows what's going to happen next year. Their current sets look OK for the money at best I think. I'd save up and get the Sony instead again.

 

[Celcius]

flatpanelshd.com Exclusive: LG talks future of OLED & first details on 2016 OLED TVs



Check the link for the full article and a couple of videos.

I hope the newer sets have decreased input lag across the board, as that's my main reservation about jumping into the OLED pool.

 

[Dewoh]

I hope the newer sets have decreased input lag across the board, as that's my main reservation about jumping into the OLED pool.

Yeah, mine as well. I've been messing around with the LG 9500, and trying a bunch of games. Settings on Game mode, AND changing the input icon and game to PC. Some scattered thoughts to those interested:

Mario Maker, Super Mario 3D World Yoshi's Wooly World- I can't say I notice a bit of lag. I've tried super hard seeing if there's lag in Mario's jumps or quick zipping movements, and I can't feel any. I've tried watching both the TV and the Wii U screen, and it seems like they're perfectly in sync. The wii screen might be the slightest smallest hair ahead, but I'm talking like maybe a frame. These two games play perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Mercenary Kings, Shovel Knight (PS4) - Seems just fine. I'm able to get the active reloads exactly where I want based on just watching the TV and not anticipating. I loaded up Shovel Knight on the PS4 and the Vita at the same time (not remote play, both playing it individually) and the jumps and motion were virtually identical. Can't tell a difference.

Gears of War Remastered - Was the character movement always this heavy and sluggish? Same for the aiming and camera movement? Feels swimmy to me. I don't know if it's the game, or the lag. I had the same feeling with Last of Us HD, and the Uncharted collection. All 3 seem to shoot the gun and fire exactly as I press the trigger, but aiming and movement feels labored.

Halo Collection, Destiny, and Halo 5 - Same issue as the previous shooters I mentioned. The guns fire perfectly. No lag I can detect at all. But the movement and aiming is way harder than I remember. It's just off. Playing Halo or Destiny has me zipping the cursor around and missing a lot. I just can't seem to get either to play well. Aiming isn't tight.

I'm so torn on this TV. The image quality is impeccable. Simply jaw dropping. And I'm also wondering if ignorance is bliss - had I not known that input lag was a problem, would I be noticing? Like I said, in game mode I can't tell at all with platformers. I even briefly tried the God of War 3 Remaster, and Killer Instinct, and both seemed flawless. And trust me, I definitely looked for lag, hoping to find some cementing my decision to return the TV. But couldn't find any.

I don't have a "control" to test along with it anymore, sadly. It's the only TV I have right now, so am working off memory on what Halo and Destiny used to play like.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yes. Trails were a problem... on my 2008 Panasonic. Both Kuros, my current late-model Panasonic, and my friend's F8500 all pass(ed) even the Sin City test with ease.

And I installed another 9300 as recently as two weeks ago. It is indeed a choice between interpolation and blur/excess judder. But don't let me stop you from enjoying your television because it clearly has its upsides.

Edit: but I understand that some are more sensitive than others to different driving methodology. My eyes just happen to loath sample-and-hold.

I could see green trails in some content on my Panasonic 65VT60.

The Samsung plasmas are better about green trailing though.

Anyone have any idea on expectations for Black Friday? I'm looking to get a new TV in the range of 65 inches to 75. I've seen a few nice ones at Best Buy from Samsung and Sony in range of $2,500 to $3,000. Does anyone have recommendations? I keep seeing huge savings on Sharp, are those shit?

Sharp is well known for being not good in the picture quality department.

Until very recently, the Sharp sets didn't even have Game modes. So unless you buy a recent model you might be getting a TV which is useless for gaming.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Yeah, mine as well. I've been messing around with the LG 9500, and trying a bunch of games. Settings on Game mode, AND changing the input icon and game to PC. Some scattered thoughts to those interested:

Mario Maker, Super Mario 3D World Yoshi's Wooly World- I can't say I notice a bit of lag. I've tried super hard seeing if there's lag in Mario's jumps or quick zipping movements, and I can't feel any. I've tried watching both the TV and the Wii U screen, and it seems like they're perfectly in sync. The wii screen might be the slightest smallest hair ahead, but I'm talking like maybe a frame. These two games play perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Mercenary Kings, Shovel Knight (PS4) - Seems just fine. I'm able to get the active reloads exactly where I want based on just watching the TV and not anticipating. I loaded up Shovel Knight on the PS4 and the Vita at the same time (not remote play, both playing it individually) and the jumps and motion were virtually identical. Can't tell a difference.

Gears of War Remastered - Was the character movement always this heavy and sluggish? Same for the aiming and camera movement? Feels swimmy to me. I don't know if it's the game, or the lag. I had the same feeling with Last of Us HD, and the Uncharted collection. All 3 seem to shoot the gun and fire exactly as I press the trigger, but aiming and movement feels labored.

Halo Collection, Destiny, and Halo 5 - Same issue as the previous shooters I mentioned. The guns fire perfectly. No lag I can detect at all. But the movement and aiming is way harder than I remember. It's just off. Playing Halo or Destiny has me zipping the cursor around and missing a lot. I just can't seem to get either to play well. Aiming isn't tight.

I'm so torn on this TV. The image quality is impeccable. Simply jaw dropping. And I'm also wondering if ignorance is bliss - had I not known that input lag was a problem, would I be noticing? Like I said, in game mode I can't tell at all with platformers. I even briefly tried the God of War 3 Remaster, and Killer Instinct, and both seemed flawless. And trust me, I definitely looked for lag, hoping to find some cementing my decision to return the TV. But couldn't find any.

I don't have a "control" to test along with it anymore, sadly. It's the only TV I have right now, so am working off memory on what Halo and Destiny used to play like.

I have the LG ec9300 oled and a Samsung js9000. My leo bodnar constantly shows the oled getting between 30-46ms for the middle bar in pcmode with game mode. I know that the ef9500 has even more lag then the ec9300.

Going from the ec9300 to the js9000 in game mode makes a big difference for lag for me, especially driving and fps games. The samsung always shows 22.7ms for the middle bar, it doesnt change each time you test it whereas the lg oled does.

My personal opinion is that the oleds have too much input lag for gaming as pf right now with the models available.

So now I use the oled for tv and movies and the js9000 is being used exclusively for gaming.


Comparing my Samsung monitor which has 10ms middle bar to the js9000's 22ms, its not really noticable at all. From what I gather what is happening is once we get past a certain cumulative input lag (controller, console processing, tv lag ) we start to feel it. 20-40ms in of itself isnt alot and not something we can feel but when you add that to all of the other lag going on is when we start to feel it. So from my experience once the display goes over 30ms is when you start to feel it impact gaming.

 

[Dewoh]

I have the LG ec9300 oled and a Samsung js9000. My leo bodnar constantly shows the oled getting between 30-46ms for the middle bar in pcmode with game mode. I know that the ef9500 has even more lag then the ec9300.

Going from the ec9300 to the js9000 in game mode makes a big difference for lag for me, especially driving and fps games. The samsung always shows 22.7ms for the middle bar, it doesnt change each time you test it whereas the lg oled does.

My personal opinion is that the oleds have too much input lag for gaming as pf right now with the models available.

So now I use the oled for tv and movies and the js9000 is being used exclusively for gaming.


Comparing my Samsung monitor which has 10ms middle bar to the js9000's 22ms, its not really noticable at all. From what I gather what is happening is once we get past a certain cumulative input lag (controller, console processing, tv lag ) we start to feel it. 20-40ms in of itself isnt alot and not something we can feel but when you add that to all of the other lag going on is when we start to feel it. So from my experience once the display goes over 30ms is when you start to feel it impact gaming.

I'm inclined to agree with what you say, about OLED in the current state not being completely ready for gaming. I tried hooking my pc up to my LG 9500, and it's so so so close to being perfect, but yet the mouse lags just enough that it would drive me insane. This is (probably) why I feel the lag in 3rd person and 1st person shooters. It just doesn't respond exactly the way I'd want. And it's probably worse because you have to deal with controller dead zones and acceleration, and so that throws the whole thing off.

HUGE bummer, since the picture of this LG is just mind blowing. ARGH. It kills me to return it.

Went to Best Buy and checked out the Samsung 9500. Apparently those have real great low input lag. Anyone have any experience with those? Obviously I'm not going to get OLED blacks, but hopefully those tvs are still damn good.

 

[Dead]

Glad input lag is meaningless to me for the most part

I could never go back to an LCD TV. For movies at least.

 

[FrankNitty]

I'm inclined to agree with what you say, about OLED in the current state not being completely ready for gaming. I tried hooking my pc up to my LG 9500, and it's so so so close to being perfect, but yet the mouse lags just enough that it would drive me insane. This is (probably) why I feel the lag in 3rd person and 1st person shooters. It just doesn't respond exactly the way I'd want. And it's probably worse because you have to deal with controller dead zones and acceleration, and so that throws the whole thing off.

HUGE bummer, since the picture of this LG is just mind blowing. ARGH. It kills me to return it.

Went to Best Buy and checked out the Samsung 9500. Apparently those have real great low input lag. Anyone have any experience with those? Obviously I'm not going to get OLED blacks, but hopefully those tvs are still damn good.

The JS9500 and X940C are the only equivalents

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

I like the Sony's like the 850/930/940C. The 850C is pretty well balanced and speced for the money. The 65" is usually in the low-2000's, 75" in the mid-high $3000. Samsungs have far too much judder imho. The 8500 isn't bad, but it's too pricey, the 850C is similar, and better priced usually.

Sharp sold their TV line/rights in the US to Hisense, who knows what's going to happen next year. Their current sets look OK for the money at best I think. I'd save up and get the Sony instead again.

Sounds like Sony is a good choice then. I have a 2012 model Samsung that I have been pleased with but the Sony display at Best Buy is pretty amazing. Shits expensive though and I can't stand paying for unnecessary 3D

 

[Dewoh]

The JS9500 and X940C are the only equivalents

Well, "equivalents". OLED is just in another realm as far as picture quality. I can't wait for the future where all TVs are those.

Glad you're enjoying yours. It's am amazing TV.

 

[J-Rzez]

I'm inclined to agree with what you say, about OLED in the current state not being completely ready for gaming. I tried hooking my pc up to my LG 9500, and it's so so so close to being perfect, but yet the mouse lags just enough that it would drive me insane. This is (probably) why I feel the lag in 3rd person and 1st person shooters. It just doesn't respond exactly the way I'd want. And it's probably worse because you have to deal with controller dead zones and acceleration, and so that throws the whole thing off.

HUGE bummer, since the picture of this LG is just mind blowing. ARGH. It kills me to return it.

Went to Best Buy and checked out the Samsung 9500. Apparently those have real great low input lag. Anyone have any experience with those? Obviously I'm not going to get OLED blacks, but hopefully those tvs are still damn good.

The js9500 has too much halo/bloom. The 940c at times in parts of the screen actually registered near zero light emit but still had some bloom. The Sony handles motion better imho too, but has a tad bit more input lag. If I had to go led that would be the set for me. Too much geometry and reflection issues with the js9500 due to its curve as well.

That being said, I'm not getting rid of the EF9500. It's flaws are the lesser of evils for me. Contrast is the foundation of picture, and no LED can do what it does. Like said I'm not too concerned with input lag as I don't console game competitively anymore, unless a new good SOCOM comes out, so I won't be doing that again for a long time lol.

I just hope Samsung and even more so Sony gets on the oled train sooner than later. Even so, I'm leaning towards a true theater room with projector next.

 

[Dewoh]

Sorry, did you mean the Sony 930c?

 

[J-Rzez]

Sorry, did you mean the Sony 930c?

Naw, 940c is the direct comparison model to the js9500 as it has full array local dimming. The 930c does not, just their "xdr" tech. That said, that set isn't bad in its own right though it can have blooming issues. Unfortunately you have to ante up for the 75" 940c to compare to the js9500. Anyone considering the js9500 should look long and hard at it though. The nature of gaming visuals can expose geometry issues easily, or sports with lined fields. I couldn't unseen those curves. And games with the mocked curved huds must be really distracting I would think.

 

[Crownjo]

flatpanelshd.com Exclusive: LG talks future of OLED & first details on 2016 OLED TVs



Check the link for the full article and a couple of videos.

LG is gonna kill off HD and 3D in 2016

5. Record full HD and 3D dies


The solution has been something of what has changed most TVs in the last few years. This year we have seen an increasing number of models have received support for 4K UHD, ie 3840 x 2160 pixel resolution, which is far higher than traditional full HD (1920 x 1080).

In 2016 LG only offer TV models with 4K resolution. This means that OLED models with standard resolution, which EC930V, will disappear from the range.

The new screens will give you sharper images than many of the current models, but purely content-wise, there is little to choose between right now.

You are able to retrieve any content from Netflix in the form of a handful of movies and series, and you apparently can obtain new 4K Blu-ray movies later in 2016. However, regular, traditional broadcasts in 4K is enough remains a while until you'll see.

With him in the grave will full HD bring 3D, we believe LG. The Company believes proven that 3D is not a format that longer is viable, and that seeing the film with glasses no longer will interest people.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Well, "equivalents". OLED is just in another realm as far as picture quality. I can't wait for the future where all TVs are those.

Glad you're enjoying yours. It's am amazing TV.

The oled's are on another level picture wise, the js9500 and the sony x930c are very very good but still imho no comparison.

My best recommendation is to keep the oled.for tv and movies because the oled really envokes this feeling of being there with its infinite contrast especially at night!!

Then get a second tv or monitor for games, that is what I had to do. I just couldnt go back to lcd or plasma for daily tv watching and movies as the oled made that much of a difference BUT for gaming it really was a bummer that the lag was really bothering me and the clincher was when I got Halo 5 and it felt horrible on the tv. Keep in mind I am in pc mode with game picture mode which gives the least amount of lag on the tv and it was still a nogo for me with games.

Even though the leo bodnar was showing 30ms for the middle bar it wasnt constant, it kept changing alot, sometimes as far up as 47ms :0 So from my tests it was at least 2-3 frames behind the js9000 and that I could easily feel the difference with.

I personally would recommend the js9000 over the js9500 for gaming because in game mode you wont be using the local dimming on the js9500 and that is why your paying alot more for.

The js9000 is on sale now, the 48 version is a great size for gaming and 4k pc gaming and at $1600 its half the price it use to be!

On another note I talked to John from Leo Bodnar maker and they are making a bative 4k lag tester and it will be out in a couple of months, I plan to get it as eventually I will be using a pc on the samsing js9000 in 4k and tvs lag in native 4k could be different then 1080p upscaled.

 

[BlizzyAzz]

LG is gonna kill off HD and 3D in 2016

Can't believe they gonna kill off 3D, with a 4K set passive 3D in 1080p is the perfect solution imho.

 

[Yaari]

I don't know how I feel about that. It means I'd never have gotten a chance to try it. I was actualyl looking forward to the experience.

 

[FrankNitty]

Well, "equivalents". OLED is just in another realm as far as picture quality. I can't wait for the future where all TVs are those.

Glad you're enjoying yours. It's am amazing TV.

Yeah i'm still enjoying mine.

As for equivalents I meant not its equal but really the only substitution. So equivalents was a bad term to use lol. This is if you want 4K. If you don't care about 4K you can always hunt down a ZT60, VT60, or F8500 lol

Even the JS8500 and X940C as a substitution is not ideal after coming from an OLED. I have a pattern test pattern that I made on a flash drive that I show people for Edge Lit and FALD sets.

It's an all black pattern, with a white frame sitting about half an inch in from the edge, and a small white circle in the middle lol. Ridiculous how much blooming and haloing appears.

 

[Buburibon]

It's an all black pattern, with a white frame sitting about half an inch in from the edge, and a small white circle in the middle lol. Ridiculous how much blooming and haloing appears.

I wonder how many dozens of thousands of dimming zones would be required to "properly" handle a pattern such as that.

 

[Dead]

LG is gonna kill off HD and 3D in 2016

Welp, now I'm especially glad I bought the EF9500. It has the best 3D i've ever seen period and actually made me believe in it again when done right.

 

[draughn101]

Welp, now I'm especially glad I bought the EF9500. It has the best 3D i've ever seen period and actually made me believe in it again when done right.

How's the input lag?

 

[MrJames]

LG is gonna kill off HD and 3D in 2016

That really sucks if true. My next set needs to have 3D. I own a lot of 3D blu-rays and watching them on my HMZ is a pain in the ass. Might have to consider a EF9500 if they can get all the panel issues worked out.

Vizio is starting to release their new entry level D series with 4K panels. Unless they carry over the E series then it looks like it will be Vizio and LG with no 1080p offerings in 2016.

I personally would recommend the js9000 over the js9500 for gaming because in game mode you wont be using the local dimming on the js9500 and that is why your paying alot more for.

Samsung put out a firmware update recently for the JS9500 to allow local dimming in game mode. Haven't seen any testing as to what kind of impact it has on lag though.

 

[Dewoh]

How's the input lag?

Scroll up to post 12465.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

That really sucks if true. My next set needs to have 3D. I own a lot of 3D blu-rays and watching them on my HMZ is a pain in the ass. Might have to consider a EF9500 if they can get all the panel issues worked out.

Vizio is starting to release their new entry level D series with 4K panels. Unless they carry over the E series then it looks like it will be Vizio and LG with no 1080p offerings in 2016.



Samsung put out a firmware update recently for the JS9500 to allow local dimming in game mode. Haven't seen any testing as to what kind of impact it has on lag though.

From what I've read the JS8500, JS9000 and JS9500 are really horrible in game mode, an owner on AVforums who owns it, told me not to bother with it, yeah the lag is low, but there's no chroma 422 or 444 in game, so any gaming basically looks like shit, only PC mode offers good picture quality but even 444 doesn't work at 4k60, but at 60ms it's a waste of time, and going from a sub 20ms TV to that is a crap experience, not to mention my set will blow it out of the water with 1080p gaming. Here's hoping next years models are awesome.

 

[Yaari]

Scroll up to post 12465.

Input lag worries me because I don't know what to expect. I've been using a plasma screen for years and I enjoy playing shooters. I don't require much else from a TV outside of what the EF9500 already offers but seeing those high input lag numbers compared to what I am currently on, I'd be sure to notice it.

 

[Dewoh]

Yeah i'm still enjoying mine.

As for equivalents I meant not its equal but really the only substitution. So equivalents was a bad term to use lol. This is if you want 4K. If you don't care about 4K you can always hunt down a ZT60, VT60, or F8500 lol

Even the JS8500 and X940C as a substitution is not ideal after coming from an OLED. I have a pattern test pattern that I made on a flash drive that I show people for Edge Lit and FALD sets.

It's an all black pattern, with a white frame sitting about half an inch in from the edge, and a small white circle in the middle lol. Ridiculous how much blooming and haloing appears.

Yeah, it's a bummer that LCD/LED is the tech that won against plasma. It's such a bad technology, comparatively.

This is a really weird time to be needing a TV. All the "best" televisions are seemingly curved. Something I didn't have any interest in (in fact, don't really like much, to be honest) but am now seriously considering since I need a new television. And OLED is so damn close to being ideal for gaming it's insane. I can't see it being more than 2-3 years away before those sets are significantly cheaper and the input lag is low.

So...how annoying is the curve? Let's assume I will be the only one in the sweet spot, so off axis viewing isn't an issue.

Input lag worries me because I don't know what to expect. I've been using a plasma screen for years and I enjoy playing shooters. I don't require much else from a TV outside of what the EF9500 already offers but seeing those high input lag numbers compared to what I am currently on, I'd be sure to notice it.

Well, the good news is that it's only really noticeable in shooters to me. (I'm sure it is in fighting games to some, but I'm not near good enough to notice it in the bit of Killer Instinct I tried.) Shooters aside, if I wasn't told it had input lag then I would believe it was flawless.

But like I posted, once you hook a mouse up to it, that's where it really starts bugging you. Playing Halo 5 there was an extra bit of swim to the controls. Same with Gears. I wish to all the Gods it wasn't there.

 

[Yaari]

^ That's too bad then. I wonder what it really takes to lower input lag and if it is a different story in the OLED screens making it more difficult to achieve? Or could we actually expect major improvements on next years lineup?


Probably just going to sit out CES 2016 then and I'll decide right that day what I'll do. I can't wait forever and they will always make new things that sound better, but with that logic you can wait forever before you make an actual purchase.

It's not that far away anymore at this point anyway. I do want to buy that TV around April-May 2016 though.

Edit: My current TX-P46G10 has 5ms input lag.

 

[MrJames]

From what I've read the JS8500, JS9000 and JS9500 are really horrible in game mode, an owner on AVforums who owns it, told me not to bother with it, yeah the lag is low, but there's no chroma 422 or 444 in game, so any gaming basically looks like shit, only PC mode offers good picture quality but even 444 doesn't work at 4k60, but at 60ms it's a waste of time, and going from a sub 20ms TV to that is a crap experience, not to mention my set will blow it out of the water with 1080p gaming. Here's hoping next years models are awesome.

I think game mode on the Samsung is intended for console gaming.444 4K60 only works in PC mode as that would be the only capable source but bumps up lag as you said. Whatever is announced for 2016 should trickle down to the JS9000/9500 with the 2016 One Connect upgrade in terms of processing.

 

[JudgmentJay]

From what I've read the JS8500, JS9000 and JS9500 are really horrible in game mode, an owner on AVforums who owns it, told me not to bother with it, yeah the lag is low, but there's no chroma 422 or 444 in game, so any gaming basically looks like shit, only PC mode offers good picture quality but even 444 doesn't work at 4k60, but at 60ms it's a waste of time, and going from a sub 20ms TV to that is a crap experience, not to mention my set will blow it out of the water with 1080p gaming. Here's hoping next years models are awesome.

I've owned the 65" JS9500 for about a month now and I can say it's fantastic for gaming. Saying that a game "looks like shit" without 4:4:4/4:2:2 is extremely hyperbolic in my opinion. The difference is minute unless you're very close to the screen. Take this comparison for example:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/131857

The only noticeable difference (pertaining to gaming) is in the leaves in the bottom left image, and I seriously doubt anyone would notice that playing at a normal viewing distance.

Regarding local dimming's impact on input lag, it doesn't affect it. It's still ~25ms with local dimming enabled.

Comparing the set to my previous TV, a 500M Kuro, I'd say the JS9500 looks better in some games and worse in others. For bright games like Mario 3D World or Tales of Zestiria, the JS9500 is straight up better due to plasma's ABL (I'd wager it looks better than OLEDs as well for the same reason). For dark games like Alien Isolation or Until Dawn, the Kuro is slightly better. But even then the JS9500 is fantastic. I was playing Dead Space 2 recently (at 4k) and I was taken aback at how damn good it looked on the JS9500. Honestly I've been very impressed with the picture quality of every game I've played on it.

 

[Pagusas]

Got my 75" x940c in, and my god does it kick ass. Turned off all the lights and watched the new Star Wars trailer, pure black when the final Star Wars logo came up, its was beautiful. The local dimming on this set is fricken amazing. Seriously the best screen I've ever seen.

Also playing skyrim on this beast at 4k, 4:4:4, 60hz is insanely good. Awesome Sony pushed the firmware update out that enabled it. Also pushing clarity to level 4 eliminates 90% of motion blur (level 5 litterally elimates it all, but the flicker is visable at that level).

Also HDR is insane. I'm in love.

It was between this screen and the 78" 9500. Doing direct comparisons I liked the Sony more by a large margin, better handling of the local dining (it's more aggressive but doesn't bloom as much, even with less zones) and I hated the curve on the 9500.

currently in the middle of a remodel, new TV stand coming, all wires will be in wall soon, ect.

 

[Dewoh]

I've owned the 65" JS9500 for about a month now and I can say it's fantastic for gaming. Saying that a game "looks like shit" without 4:4:4/4:2:2 is extremely hyperbolic in my opinion. The difference is minute unless you're very close to the screen. Take this comparison for example:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/131857

The only noticeable difference (pertaining to gaming) is in the leaves in the bottom left image, and I seriously doubt anyone would notice that playing at a normal viewing distance.

Regarding local dimming's impact on input lag, it doesn't affect it. It's still ~25ms with local dimming enabled.

Comparing the set to my previous TV, a 500M Kuro, I'd say the JS9500 looks better in some games and worse in others. For bright games like Mario 3D World or Tales of Zestiria, the JS9500 is straight up better due to plasma's ABL (I'd wager it looks better than OLEDs as well for the same reason). For dark games like Alien Isolation or Until Dawn, the Kuro is slightly better. But even then the JS9500 is fantastic. I was playing Dead Space 2 recently (at 4k) and I was taken aback at how damn good it looked on the JS9500. Honestly I've been very impressed with the picture quality of every game I've played on it.

How odd was adapting to the curve? Thoughts on that shape so far?

 

[JudgmentJay]

How odd was adapting to the curve? Thoughts on that shape so far?

If you're sitting front and center it's a non-issue. I don't notice it. I'd go so far as to say it's beneficial for LED TVs at larger screen sizes because it prevents the edges of the screen from fading out due to viewing angle.

 

[Magnus]

We took our garbage LG 1080p LED back and decided to fork over extra dinero for a Samsung 4K LED (the 8500 from 2015) - holy SHIT, what a gorgeous difference. The black levels on this gorgeous, gorgeous television are ridiculous. Inkier and richer than my Panasonic Plasma if it can believed.

I can't even comprehend that this set is also edge-lit like the LG, because I can't even see a hint of it whereas the LG was BRUTAL.

God I love this television. No hint of input lag either, and I'm not even in a game mode. And I'm pretty sensitive to lag too.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

From what I've read the JS8500, JS9000 and JS9500 are really horrible in game mode, an owner on AVforums who owns it, told me not to bother with it, yeah the lag is low, but there's no chroma 422 or 444 in game, so any gaming basically looks like shit, only PC mode offers good picture quality but even 444 doesn't work at 4k60, but at 60ms it's a waste of time, and going from a sub 20ms TV to that is a crap experience, not to mention my set will blow it out of the water with 1080p gaming. Here's hoping next years models are awesome.

The js9000 does indeed do 422 chroma in game mode. Running 4k native in game mode looks almost identical to pc.mode with 444 and imperceptible with gaming. I have tested and seen this myself. The lag in game mode is half what it is in pc mode and worth what little difference there is that you would see on certain websites and test images.

 

[Dewoh]

We took our garbage LG 1080p LED back and decided to fork over extra dinero for a Samsung 4K LED (the 8500 from 2015) - holy SHIT, what a gorgeous difference. The black levels on this gorgeous, gorgeous television are ridiculous. Inkier and richer than my Panasonic Plasma if it can believed.

I can't even comprehend that this set is also edge-lit like the LG, because I can't even see a hint of it whereas the LG was BRUTAL.

God I love this television. No hint of input lag either, and I'm not even in a game mode. And I'm pretty sensitive to lag too.

The difference between a budget TV and a mid to high end TV is huge. Congrats on the new setup.

 

[FrankNitty]

Got my 75" x940c in, and my god does it kick ass. Turned off all the lights and watched the new Star Wars trailer, pure black when the final Star Wars logo came up, its was beautiful. The local dimming on this set is fricken amazing. Seriously the best screen I've ever seen.

Also playing skyrim on this beast at 4k, 4:4:4, 60hz is insanely good. Awesome Sony pushed the firmware update out that enabled it. Also pushing clarity to level 4 eliminates 90% of motion blur (level 5 litterally elimates it all, but the flicker is visable at that level).

Also HDR is insane. I'm in love.


currently in the middle of a remodel, new TV stand coming, all wires will be in wall soon, ect.

Nice congrats that's a hell of a display. 75 is nice.

 

[Haint]

^ That's too bad then. I wonder what it really takes to lower input lag and if it is a different story in the OLED screens making it more difficult to achieve? Or could we actually expect major improvements on next years lineup?


Probably just going to sit out CES 2016 then and I'll decide right that day what I'll do. I can't wait forever and they will always make new things that sound better, but with that logic you can wait forever before you make an actual purchase.

It's not that far away anymore at this point anyway. I do want to buy that TV around April-May 2016 though.

Edit: My current TX-P46G10 has 5ms input lag.

No it doesn't. Cloned timers of the era of the G10 were always in the teens to 20's of milliseconds. The Bodnar lag device would probably peg it somewhere around 32ms (give or take) today.

 

[Yaari]

No it doesn't. Cloned timers of the era of the G10 were always in the teens to 20's of milliseconds. The Bodnar lag device would probably peg it somewhere around 32ms (give or take) today.

Oh really? Well, that is good news, because the closer the gap, the less likely I will be able to notice.

Happy to hear that.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

I think game mode on the Samsung is intended for console gaming.444 4K60 only works in PC mode as that would be the only capable source but bumps up lag as you said. Whatever is announced for 2016 should trickle down to the JS9000/9500 with the 2016 One Connect upgrade in terms of processing.

I've heard conflicting talk about 444/60 in PC mode, as in it doesn't work at all, only at 30hz.

I've owned the 65" JS9500 for about a month now and I can say it's fantastic for gaming. Saying that a game "looks like shit" without 4:4:4/4:2:2 is extremely hyperbolic in my opinion. The difference is minute unless you're very close to the screen. Take this comparison for example:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/131857

The only noticeable difference (pertaining to gaming) is in the leaves in the bottom left image, and I seriously doubt anyone would notice that playing at a normal viewing distance.

Regarding local dimming's impact on input lag, it doesn't affect it. It's still ~25ms with local dimming enabled.

Comparing the set to my previous TV, a 500M Kuro, I'd say the JS9500 looks better in some games and worse in others. For bright games like Mario 3D World or Tales of Zestiria, the JS9500 is straight up better due to plasma's ABL (I'd wager it looks better than OLEDs as well for the same reason). For dark games like Alien Isolation or Until Dawn, the Kuro is slightly better. But even then the JS9500 is fantastic. I was playing Dead Space 2 recently (at 4k) and I was taken aback at how damn good it looked on the JS9500. Honestly I've been very impressed with the picture quality of every game I've played on it.

I'm only going by what I've been told, couple of guys saying 1080p gaming just doesn't look very good in game mode, as in all processing is turned off, and it looks rough, but maybe I should track one down and test.

The js9000 does indeed do 422 chroma in game mode. Running 4k native in game mode looks almost identical to pc.mode with 444 and imperceptible with gaming. I have tested and seen this myself. The lag in game mode is half what it is in pc mode and worth what little difference there is that you would see on certain websites and test images.

I can only compare to my W900A, and when it's not in game mode, it looks bad compared, with being no 442/444 etc, I just don't want to upgrade and end up with a worse picture! And from what I've heard, there's no local dimming in PC mode either. The other thing is the 8500 has half the lag apparently in PC which I can't understand, being that it has a quad core processor and not an octocore, the only other difference is that the local dimming isn't quite as good as the 9000. Does 1080p gaming look as good as native 1080p?

 

[Pagusas]

I've heard conflicting talk about 444/60 in PC mode, as in it doesn't work at all, only at 30hz.



I'm only going by what I've been told, couple of guys saying 1080p gaming just doesn't look very good in game mode, as in all processing is turned off, and it looks rough, but maybe I should track one down and test.



I can only compare to my W900A, and when it's not in game mode, it looks bad compared, with being no 442/444 etc, I just don't want to upgrade and end up with a worse picture! And from what I've heard, there's no local dimming in PC mode either. The other thing is the 8500 has half the lag apparently in PC which I can't understand, being that it has a quad core processor and not an octocore, the only other difference is that the local dimming isn't quite as good as the 9000. Does 1080p gaming look as good as native 1080p?

Perhaps you should look at the x940c (or soon to be announced 950c for next year). Enhanced hdmi mode supports 4:4:4, I haven't done input lag test yet but playing Fear at 4K was supper nice and responsive.

 

[JudgmentJay]

I'm only going by what I've been told, couple of guys saying 1080p gaming just doesn't look very good in game mode, as in all processing is turned off, and it looks rough, but maybe I should track one down and test.

The only thing that's disabled in game mode that you wouldn't want disabled anyway is 10-point white balance. It used to disable local dimming, but a firmware update fixed that. 1080p/720p games look fantastic. I doubt I would be able to tell the difference between the JS9500 and a native 1080p panel in a blind A/B test as far as resolution is concerned.