Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

Thanks for the info. A few more questions if you don't mind...

What about the HDR capabilitiles of something like the Xbox One S and (presumably) the PS4 Neo? Would you be able to take advantage of those on these monitors you mentioned?

Also, how are the black levels on the monitors? I'm a plasma guy so I've always enjoyed the black levels and shadow detail of a plasma. Just curious as to how these stack up in that regard.



Ahh. That's kind of what I was thinking. So these monitors wouldn't really be able to use the "HDR" features of the Xbox One S or the Neo?

No, because they won't know how to process that signal. There's data in the signal about how to roll off based on the capability of the monitors.

The monitors probably have much of the physical capability to display the colors / brightness in places, but unless they have the pieces in there to interpret the new type of signals, it won't really do you much good.

But HDR standards (aside from Dolby Vision) are the wild west)
 
Recently, I purchased a Samsung KS8000, and while I like the display, I HATE the software that it uses. It is clunky and slow, and often doesn't have the apps I want. Where is Android TV when you need it?
 
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Also, the KS8000 will sometimes randomly flash black for several seconds. I have tried different HDMI cables, and nothing seems to fix it!
 
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Wow. Ambilight+OLED is potentially killer. Price isn't that bad.

They also mentioned gaming, so please have low input lag, please have low input lag...
I kinda miss the four-sided Ambilight that my previous TV had on my current OLED. Sadly low input lag isn't Philip's strong suite, but I'm happy to be wrong about that for this TV.
 
Dude image retention is less of an issue on OLED compared to any Plasma, even more so in 2016 models, and burn in isn't a problem at all. We talked about this last night. If that's what's stopping you from buying the C6, just pull the trigger. You will barely notice the curved screen when it's on, but it makes 3D content better, looks beautiful and it's miles ahead compared to the other two sets (which are good choices if you are on a limited budget, but if you can afford OLED it shouldn't be a question).
IIRC, Kuros were the exception in plasmas with regard to image retention. The late Panny VT/ZTs and Samsungs all suffered from IR, but not the Kuro, at least the 9/9.5Gs. I don't know how the wizards at Pioneer did what all the other manufacturers couldn't. Maybe they held patents that others couldn't use. *shrug*

Reading your comment about the curve actually being better for 3D actually makes me feel better about having to "settle" for the C6. Definitely leaning more that way now.

Man, you're just lucky that you can buy in USD.

The European prices for OLEDs are so bad. The B6 in Europe costs MORE than the E6 in the US. Let that sink in.

That's why I had to opt for the B6 (and I got it on sale even). If you look on Amazon Germany right now (as I live in Germany), the 55" E6 would set you back $6023

That's over six thousand USD when the same thing is available on Amazon US for less than $3500.

As an American living abroad, it makes me feel pretty sick. :
Ouch. Not to make you feel worse, but on the topic of price, I spoke with Magnolia and they said they would match Fry's offer of paying the sales tax. That's an extra $300-$400 off the price of the C6. Of course that applies to other displays sold by both Magnolia/Best Buy and Fry's.

Also, I happened to come across one of your posts in the Kuro to OLED migration thread on avsforum. Useful impressions from people making the same move as I may, and your descriptions of the way your Kuro behaves mostly match my experience with mine. I also planned to relegate my Kuro to another room before it met its demise.
 
IIRC, Kuros were the exception in plasmas with regard to image retention. The late Panny VT/ZTs and Samsungs all suffered from IR, but not the Kuro, at least the 9/9.5Gs. I don't know how the wizards at Pioneer did what all the other manufacturers couldn't. Maybe they held patents that others couldn't use. *shrug

Panasonic bought the Kuro patents and picked up most of their engineers. Ever decreasing power budgets (Energy Star Certification) and the swap the 3D friendly fast switching phosphors were likely the reasons they couldn't duplicate Kuro's performance. Energy Star requirements specifically were really PDP's death knell. The '09 Panasonic's could reach up to 350 nits (100fL) in the preferred picture modes (not Vivid), which was bonkers for a Plasma. Subsequent years as energy star req constrained, they struggled to hit 40fL in preferred modes (~135nits).
 
Panasonic bought the Kuro patents and picked up most of their engineers. Ever decreasing power budgets (Energy Star Certification) and the swap the 3D friendly fast switching phosphors were likely the reasons they couldn't duplicate Kuro's performance. Energy Star requirements specifically were really PDP's death knell. The '09 Panasonic's could reach up to 350 nits (100fL) in the preferred picture modes (not Vivid), which was bonkers for a Plasma. Subsequent years as energy star req constrained, they struggled to hit 40fL in preferred modes (~135nits).

Panasonic never did end up using most of the Kuro patents they were simply to expensive for them to implement in the face of comp from cheap bottom of the barrel LCD's it did not make sense $ wise. :(

I know my G10 Panasonic Plasma can get IR pretty easily if you're not careful. My 60" 9.5 G Kuro on the other hand is fucking beast after I broke it in when I first got it the thing has never skipped a beat.

Also, my Kuro can easily do 40fl in IFS Day (I can push it more if I want...), but honestly for day time viewing in my HT room 35-38fl is perfect for me. In ISF Night I have it calibrated to 30fl. Also, it's really easy to get around ABL in the service menu haha it's crazy how freaking bright it gets in full screen white. But, I honestly went back to default because in fully light controlled HT for night time it was making my eyes uncomfortable.

One tweak I did stick with was making my blacks deeper via the service menu. :)

Lastly, the 50" 9.5G Kuro you can get to bust out 60fl and pretty much 0.000ml if you have the right panel and know how. ;)

Sadly, Pioneer were clearly well on their way to having perfect black Plasma displays which one only needs to see a tweaked 9.5G Kuro to feel the pain of the tech being killed in its prime.

So, it's been how many years and we have OLED now though which is moving towards center stage fast. Thank god.

Edit: Oh and Pioneer and Panasonic were going to team I'm for the later gen Plasma displays till Pioneer exited out. Pioneer were gonna share tech with Panasonic who was gonna make the panels. Along with true inf contrast that they had shown off and Fuga processing.

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-...er-unveils-latest-kuro-processing-tech-501054

Depth of field

Video upscaling isn't the only new technology that Pioneer is working on. The company's next-gen TVs may also have the power to change depth of field within an image.

This is all down to the Fuga analyser – which scans images in real-time, and makes any necessary changes to an image, much like the way you change the aperture of a camera to add image depth.

May isn't quite convinced about how this technology will work in the home but was still impressed, explaining: "It remains to be seen quite what form this feature eventually comes to market in, but it stands as an astonishing example of the power within Pioneer's next generation silicon."

One thing is for sure I have not seen a TV manufacturer since Pioneer have such pride in a product their engineers were amazing.
 
Panasonic bought the Kuro patents and picked up most of their engineers. Ever decreasing power budgets (Energy Star Certification) and the swap the 3D friendly fast switching phosphors were likely the reasons they couldn't duplicate Kuro's performance. Energy Star requirements specifically were really PDP's death knell. The '09 Panasonic's could reach up to 350 nits (100fL) in the preferred picture modes (not Vivid), which was bonkers for a Plasma. Subsequent years as energy star req constrained, they struggled to hit 40fL in preferred modes (~135nits).

yeah I had an 09 model and held onto it for dear life until switching to the E6
 
Keeping my fingers crossed we'll hear about dynamic metadata this week at IFA. If it's a firmware update that provides HDMI 2.1 compatibility then I'm definitely making the leap.
 
To answer your question, as far as I know... no :(. I believe these monitors are only 8-bit color over HDMI. Both of them require displayport to use their full resolution and color bit depth-- and the 5K monitor doesn't even have HDMI input.

The black levels on the monitors are great, but they won't be as good as your plasmas. These monitors are designed for professional imaging and video development and have amazing color accuracy, including blacks-- Pixar, for example, will use professional monitors like these when developing HDR content for HDR TVs (ironically enough, for those of you who say these monitors are SDR (lol)-- look a few posts up).

I've used proessional IPS panels from Dell and HP for years now-- they're expensive, but I would never go back to using a consumer monitor.
Great black levels...IPS panel...hmmm, no

Look, without local dimming, it just isn't possible to achieve deep blacks. It's a limitation of IPS technology. You can certainly develop content using them as they have a high ANSI contrast ratio and produce convincing black in a lit room but, for actual viewing in a darker environment, the blacks are not dark enough.
 
Got an LG 55UH6150. So far as I'm concerned it is some great bang for your buck. A meaningful step up in quality is like 3-4x the price.
 
Where did I say that? I said PC monitors had HDR features for years and years. Saying that professional PC monitors which are used to master HDR content for HDR TVs are SDR is laughable. The terms SDR and HDR don't apply to PC monitors.

But they literally haven't. They've had the expanded colour space, but not the features that make up HDR as we know it today.

PC monitors aren't used to master HDR content for HDR TVs either, I'm not sure where you got that idea from, for the GUI of the editing / grading programs sure, but for the video the colourist will use either a professional Sony OLED Monitor (http://pro.sony.com.au/pro/product/...nal-monitors-oled-monitors/bvm-x300/overview/) or the Dolby Pro Reference monitor (http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/cinema/products/prm-4220.html). These are what is used to master HDR content, for HDR TVs.

Edit: Furthermore, if you want to argue that your monitors that you've owned over the years are HDR, there's an easy way to check that by referencing the specs set out by the UHD alliance for what makes up HDR.

For LCDs A minimum brightness of 1,000 nits, along with a black level of a maximum of 0.05 nits (20,000:1 contrast ratio).

For OLED A minimum brightness of 540 nits, along with a black level of a maximum of 0.0005 (1,080,000:1).

None of your monitors even hit 540 nits, which is the minimum for OLED, only because the blacks are so good it doesn't need as high of a brightness. For an LCD, you should have a minimum of 1,000 nits. On top of that, your current monitor doesn't have HDMI, so it can't accept a HDR signal from a 4K Blu Ray player or XB1 Slim.
 
TRega also got other information wrong.

- VA have better native black levels than any IPS display that is simple fact of the technology. IPS just enjoys wider viewing angle & faster gray to gray response (typically). However, you lose the bigger advantage of IPS viewing angles when you move to FALD when enabled due to the way light interacts with the panel it ends up making color fading on angels a bigger issue compared to desktop displays that use very simple back light methods where IPS clearly enjoys a larger viewing angle advantage & when it came to "vanilla" panels better colour reproduction, thus it's preferred by professional desktop users.

- Sony Z9D processes 14-bit color internally and maps it to its native 10-bit panel to produce much finer gradation..not to mention that it can push 2,000 nits while playing back HDR content if required, thus beating the example he used.

- Hisense will be releasing a 8K HDR TV later this year (early next year in most markets), pointless really but the panel tech has been showed off.

- The only reference displays for HDR mastering used by Hollywood is Sony's BVM-X300 OLED & Dolby's 4,000Nit Pulsar display. No consumer LCD monitor is used for creating HDR content outside of displaying the desktop tools maybe where they work in while the reference monitor (Sony's or Dolby's) is feed the HDR content for grading & other tasks.

- Panel tech in UHD has been pushing LCD tech for a while now. Desktop displays stopped being the leaders and now are waiting for the tech to trickle down. Example Samsung Only NOW showed off a desktop LCD that supports Quantum dot process for LCD production which helps to enhance the color reproduction and offer wider colour gamut. They also can't match up nit wise & lack the advance FALD lighting methods deployed in UHD LCD TVs.

- Almost all the premium UHD panels have wider gamut than the displays he listed Rec.2020 & DCI P3 > Adobe RGB.

1404_LFW06f3.jpg


Sorry if this comes off as an attack TRega just trying to correct some things without offending you. :)
 
I wanted to go for the 65ef950 for 4000e which I can have 3300 but I can also have the 65b6v for 3800

Better put 500 more to have he 2016 with Dolby vision ?

Or the 65c6 ? I'd like 3D as well
 
I wanted to go for the 65ef950 for 4000e which I can have 3300 but I can also have the 65b6v for 3800

Better put 500 more to have he 2016 with Dolby vision ?

Or the 65c6 ? I'd like 3D as well

Save your money and get an E6 when it drops in price. 2016 models >>>>>> 2015 models.

Or get the C6. Just don't get a 2015 model!
 
I wanted to go for the 65ef950 for 4000e which I can have 3300 but I can also have the 65b6v for 3800

Better put 500 more to have he 2016 with Dolby vision ?

Or the 65c6 ? I'd like 3D as well

500€ more for the B6 is totally worth it, but it doesn't have the 3D you wanted. Is the C6 still 5500€?

Save your money and get an E6 when it drops in price. 2016 models >>>>>> 2015 models.

Or get the C6. Just don't get a 2015 model!
Do you have an idea of how expensive the 65" E6 is in Europe lol
 
looking at this one for £1999 Viera tx-58DX902B



or this one for £1649 Bravia KD55XD9305BU



coming from a 50 inch Pioneer Kuro 9G though, which I am keeping.
 
Do you have an idea of how expensive the 65" E6 is in Europe lol

2016 Oleds just launched few days ago in Italy and they've got crazy prices. Crazy in an unexpected good way, just for once. 55b6 can be had under 2000, 55e6 just above 2000. 65e6 it's under 4500. Personally I'm waiting for CES, anyway, and Panasonic lineup.
 
500€ more for the B6 is totally worth it, but it doesn't have the 3D you wanted. Is the C6 still 5500€?


Do you have an idea of how expensive the 65" E6 is in Europe lol
Still 5500

Actually I can get the 65c6 for 5500-500 refund LG -1000 shop refund - 750 special promotion today only so it's 3250
Or the 65ef950 for 3300... No brainer I guess. Today promotion isn't working on 65ef950
 
My wallet will cry within 2 month

Lg65c6v
PsNeo
Psvr
iPhone 7 128
Gpd win (already paid)

Can't wait
 
2016 Oleds just launched few days ago in Italy and they've got crazy prices. Crazy in an unexpected good way, just for once. 55b6 can be had under 2000, 55e6 just above 2000. 65e6 it's under 4500. Personally I'm waiting for CES, anyway, and Panasonic lineup.
What? Really? That's awesome... and weird. We usually get the highest prices for everything lol

From what i've heard prices around Europe are insanely high.

EDIT: well, apparently unieuro and other websites are doing some insane discounts for some reason because you can see on their website that the MSRP for the B6 is 3000€, but they're offering it for 1980€. Insane.

Still 5500

Actually I can get the 65c6 for 5500-500 refund LG -1000 shop refund - 750 special promotion today only so it's 3250
Or the 65ef950 for 3300... No brainer I guess. Today promotion isn't working on 65ef950
Yup. No brainer. Get the C6.
 
2016 Oleds just launched few days ago in Italy and they've got crazy prices. Crazy in an unexpected good way, just for once. 55b6 can be had under 2000, 55e6 just above 2000. 65e6 it's under 4500. Personally I'm waiting for CES, anyway, and Panasonic lineup.

What, wow!
Where? Certainly not on amazon.it.
 
Will get my 65c6v Wednesday delivered.
Can anyone point me to some good 4K-hdr-Dolby vision demo ? Waiting for neo so I don't have a 4K player yet (though I have Netflix UhD)
 
Got an LG 55UH6150. So far as I'm concerned it is some great bang for your buck. A meaningful step up in quality is like 3-4x the price.

Not meaning to rain on your parade or anything, but this is important information for anyone who may be looking to take you up on your recommendation. The 6150 is a WRGB panel which a lot of people consider to be Fake 4K.
 
TRega also got other information wrong.

- VA have better native black levels than any IPS display that is simple fact of the technology. IPS just enjoys wider viewing angle & faster gray to gray response (typically). However, you lose the bigger advantage of IPS viewing angles when you move to FALD when enabled due to the way light interacts with the panel it ends up making color fading on angels a bigger issue compared to desktop displays that use very simple back light methods where IPS clearly enjoys a larger viewing angle advantage & when it came to "vanilla" panels better colour reproduction, thus it's preferred by professional desktop users.

- Sony Z9D processes 14-bit color internally and maps it to its native 10-bit panel to produce much finer gradation..not to mention that it can push 2,000 nits while playing back HDR content if required, thus beating the example he used.

- Hisense will be releasing a 8K HDR TV later this year (early next year in most markets), pointless really but the panel tech has been showed off.

- The only reference displays for HDR mastering used by Hollywood is Sony's BVM-X300 OLED & Dolby's 4,000Nit Pulsar display. No consumer LCD monitor is used for creating HDR content outside of displaying the desktop tools maybe where they work in while the reference monitor (Sony's or Dolby's) is feed the HDR content for grading & other tasks.

- Panel tech in UHD has been pushing LCD tech for a while now. Desktop displays stopped being the leaders and now are waiting for the tech to trickle down. Example Samsung Only NOW showed off a desktop LCD that supports Quantum dot process for LCD production which helps to enhance the color reproduction and offer wider colour gamut. They also can't match up nit wise & lack the advance FALD lighting methods deployed in UHD LCD TVs.

- Almost all the premium UHD panels have wider gamut than the displays he listed Rec.2020 & DCI P3 > Adobe RGB.

1404_LFW06f3.jpg


Sorry if this comes off as an attack TRega just trying to correct some things without offending you. :)

Not my P55 IPS display it maintains it off angle advantage.

Oh, and Fox has been using Samsung displays for color grading HDR. It turned out Sony's OLED being 30 inches causes grain because its screen size.
 
The ks8000 seems to be on sale in the US. Looking for a way to get it imported to Canada for a good price.

Since it doesn't have Dolby vision does that mean hdr won't be available on Netflix?
 
The ks8000 seems to be on sale in the US. Looking for a way to get it imported to Canada for a good price.

Since it doesn't have Dolby vision does that mean hdr won't be available on Netflix?

Netflix supports both DV and HDR10 on all its HDR titles. Works great on the KS8000. As the owner of one, I highly recommend it.

Sorry, no clue how to get one imported, though.
 
Not meaning to rain on your parade or anything, but this is important information for anyone who may be looking to take you up on your recommendation. The 6150 is a WRGB panel which a lot of people consider to be Fake 4K.
Totally fair, yet as I said, a meaningful step up in quality is 3-4x the price, so it was an easy call as I just needed a little something for blurays/Roku in the new house. I don't have a 4k bluray player and don't expect practical/common full utilization of 4k technology to be well established (available content and non-exorbitant service charges for that bandwidth) any time soon. It is coming, certainly, with OLED advancing and CLED developing, but this is by no means the hayday of the technology and future TVs will be crushing present ones for cheaper.

If one feels this is the time to go all in for attempted IQ perfection and are willing to pay for it, have a ball. I think it's better to hold off, though.
 
Potentially a silly question...how dark is a good IPS monitor? I don't mean light bleed etc, but how dark can IPS monitors get?

I ask since I have an IPS monitor myself and if I were to switch off all light sources other than my Monitor it would still noticeably be casting light while displaying a black screen.

I'm aware it wouldn't be OLED level blacks, but I'm curious as to what an example of good blacks in an IPS monitor look like.

EDIT: probably better in the PC thread my bad.
 
Potentially a silly question...how dark is a good IPS monitor? I don't mean light bleed etc, but how dark can IPS monitors get?

I ask since I have an IPS monitor myself and if I were to switch off all light sources other than my Monitor it would still noticeably be casting light while displaying a black screen.

I'm aware it wouldn't be OLED level blacks, but I'm curious as to what an example of good blacks in an IPS monitor look like.

EDIT: probably better in the PC thread my bad.
I guess it depends on the quality of local dimming or lack thereof.
 
Potentially a silly question...how dark is a good IPS monitor? I don't mean light bleed etc, but how dark can IPS monitors get?

I ask since I have an IPS monitor myself and if I were to switch off all light sources other than my Monitor it would still noticeably be casting light while displaying a black screen.

I'm aware it wouldn't be OLED level blacks, but I'm curious as to what an example of good blacks in an IPS monitor look like.

EDIT: probably better in the PC thread my bad.
No IPS monitor is dark. They all glow unless you employ local dimming (where portions of the back light can shut off). It's kind of a hack, though, and isn't available on monitors, I believe.
 
IIRC, Kuros were the exception in plasmas with regard to image retention. The late Panny VT/ZTs and Samsungs all suffered from IR, but not the Kuro, at least the 9/9.5Gs. I don't know how the wizards at Pioneer did what all the other manufacturers couldn't. Maybe they held patents that others couldn't use. *shrug*

Reading your comment about the curve actually being better for 3D actually makes me feel better about having to "settle" for the C6. Definitely leaning more that way now.


Ouch. Not to make you feel worse, but on the topic of price, I spoke with Magnolia and they said they would match Fry's offer of paying the sales tax. That's an extra $300-$400 off the price of the C6. Of course that applies to other displays sold by both Magnolia/Best Buy and Fry's.

Also, I happened to come across one of your posts in the Kuro to OLED migration thread on avsforum. Useful impressions from people making the same move as I may, and your descriptions of the way your Kuro behaves mostly match my experience with mine. I also planned to relegate my Kuro to another room before it met its demise.

The 9G wasn't impervious to IR. I turned the orbiter feature off on mine when I bought it, watched the Ashes for the entirety of the summer, and had the Sky Sports logo burned into the top right corner. Took years to go fully.
 
No IPS monitor is dark. They all glow unless you employ local dimming (where portions of the back light can shut off). It's kind of a hack, though, and isn't available on monitors, I believe.
My Vizio M49-C1 does this. Its a IPS display with local dimming.
 
Okay, I'm in the market for a new TV for the bedroom. I currently have an LCD in there, but those don't really seem to be a big thing anymore. Seems most of the 32"-44" sets are LED, now and I'm not really up to date on exactly what the differences are. It's something with the backlighting, right?
 
Got a good deal on a Sony Bravia KD-65XD9305, but not sure if I want to jump on it or wait for a LG OLED to go down in price.

I don't know what to do GAF...
halp
 
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