The problem is in using, not what to use.
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PlayStation 5 cooling system is 'lavish', makes the PS5 more expensive
- Thread starter MiyazakiHatesKojima
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- Hardware Hype
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The problem is in using, not what to use.
every PS5 topic has an xbox fanboy talking shit. Impressive how these fools are virgin and frustrated.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Insecure about what, exactly? Lol
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The article I screenshotted was from a DF interview with their tech guy Andrew Goossen who also works on the hardware
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
So you're hoping there's inaccuracies? Is that why you posted an article that's about as old as Jesus? WTF?The article I screenshotted was from a DF interview with their tech guy Andrew Goossen who also works on the hardware
Vroadstar
Member
Yes I don't get it really, I mean OP never even mentioned X anywhere yet for some reason known X fans love to flock PS threads either to troll, drive-by or whatnot for
a plastic box they are not even interested and only offer 10.28 TF
Vroadstar
Member
You've PS derailed this thread long enough, time to move on
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Lol no I was just proving the point that MS PR can be just that sometimes
Kenpachii
Member
From euro gamer article.
Sounds to me like its split pool with 1x v-ram 10gb, 1x system ram as he explains it which operate at the same time on there own speed.
Now the question why in gods name u need 300gb's for system ram?and not just slam in slower ram by itself, its probably because of xbox one X BC as it features 12gb of gddr5 at 325gb's performance.
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Talking shit and clearing up misinformation with facts are entirely different.
Vroadstar
Member
And you somehow clicked on a PS thread about PS5 cooling because you detected misinformation totally not about PS5 cooling to clear it up? I assume you actively do this every time someone creates misinformation about Xbox?
I saw an interesting topic and was curious to learn about the intricacies of how the PS5 is approaching cooling. I am getting both consoles as long as the exclusives are to my liking. I read hobbygamings bullshit on so many threads, that when I saw this on the last page, I figured it was time to call him on it. Does that answer your question?
Vroadstar
Member
Do you also do this when misinformation about PS5 comes up and you clear them up too for the uninformed X fans? I mean if you really are are unbiased and getting "both" consoles as you say I assume you do
We don't know anything concrete about the PS5 because Sony has shown us nothing but powerpoint slides. When DF or tech experts have some hands on time with it, then I'll know enough to have the information to call people on.
Simple, if you only use 10GB you have 560GB / s
As I just said, the problem is using more than 10GB (560GB / s)
using only 10GB = 560GB / s
using more than 10GB = ~ 300GB / s
What do you prefer?
a) 10GB 560GB / s which drops to 300GB / s when you use more than 10GB
b) 16GB ~ 300GB / s
if you choose option B, you're an idiot.
There is nothing to contradict what I wrote here.
Repeating MS PR is not a demonstration of intelligence
what facts?
Does the fact that the bankrupt console needs "soldiers" defend it on the internet?
If the xbox was good, you didn't have to defend it on a PS5 topic.
You just proved that the xbox is a shame
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PleaseWaitStation4
Banned
Our 30fps will be given to us on a gold platter.
then DF tested the SX? because they just stuck pieces with magnets in the presentation and tested xbox one games that prove nothing.
I wonder who is the easiest to deceive:
a) DF
b) Developers with the lecture that would be for GDC
If you think talking to DF is more valuable than developers, you are an idiot.
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Dontero
Banned
Or you can use both 10GB at 560GB/s which is faster than PS5 and 6GB at 300Gb/s for data that doesn't need to be on fast memory at the same time.
To me Xbox split is better. Not all data is equal and most of data actually doesn't need fast ram
Ar¢tos
Member
Deciding what data is more important and what data is less important will increase optimization time and costs, and we know how much 3rd party publishers like to skimp on that.
We need to take the lowest spec of each console to make a virtual console that will be the target for 3rd party games, it's safest that way to minimise disappointment.
FranXico
Member
But it is more valuable. For marketing.
Dontero
Banned
Every developer on console already optimizes memory use as literally base of developing game. Choosing which memory pool to use like flipping 0 to 1 if they dynamically adjust it. If they use fixed memory allocation it is more work but they area already allocating memory which means it is just another small thing to adjust.
Kenpachii
Member
"Graphics power isn't just about teraflops - compute power needs to be backed up with memory bandwidth, presenting a unique challenge for a console "
12tflop at 400gb's would be a bottleneck, they need all the gb's they can get specially with raytracing also eating into this massively. The traditional console shared memory solution would be much like the PS4 a utter waste of money performance and power consumption + heat.
"Memory performance is asymmetrical - it's not something we could have done with the PC "
In short its a different split pool solution then PC has.
"explains Andrew Goossen "10 gigabytes of physical memory [runs at] 560GB/s. We call this GPU optimal memory "
10gb of vram at 560gb's
"Six gigabytes [runs at] 336GB/s, We call this standard memory "
6gb runs at 336gb's that's system memory.
Now why do you need 336gb's system memory? and why not just slam in way way way slower memory that can do the cpu tasks way more efficient?
All i can think off BC with xbox one X 326gb's pool. That's probably why they opted for this approach. BC is massively important and so for sony which is most likely the reason they opted for the GPU that they selected at the end of the day.
"GPU optimal and standard offer identical performance for CPU audio and file IO "
GPU v-ram does not clock down it can work at its own speed perfectly fine towards the slower ram to help on the CPU / audio / io front because 10gb of v-ram is of now utter overkill. ( 5gb was usable as entire ram solution for games, on the PS4 for example, with 3-3,5 probably as max for any game as v-ram. )
"The only hardware component that sees a difference in the GPU "
Which makes sense as what he stated.
"In terms of how the memory is allocated, games get a total of 13.5GB in total, which encompasses all 10GB of GPU optimal memory and 3.5GB of standard memory, This leaves 2.5GB of GDDR6 memory from the slower pool for the operating system and the front-end shell "
Again 10gb of gpu optimal memory he already talked about aka v-ram and 3,5gb system ram for games, with 2,5gb locked away for OS security etc.
"From Microsoft's perspective, it is still a unified memory system, even if performance can vary "
U can still adress all memory as the same performance if you cared for it, however performance will be impacted.
Why would u do that? he goes into the next part into that.
" In conversations with developers, it's typically easy for games to more than fill up their standard memory quota with CPU, audio data, stack data, and executable data, script data, and developers like such a trade-off when it gives them more potential bandwidth," says Goossen. "
See how its designed around the fact that v-ram can be cannibalized and added towards the system ram? ( and not the other way around ) And yes different speeds can feed that without clocking back. U see this also on PC. if system ram is adressed v-ram doesn't boggle down, lots of games use v-ram as extra system ram as example when its there. Good example call of duty warzone. It just runs on that memory.
This is why they opted for a bigger v-ram pool and a smaller system ram pool, because the other way around it wouldn't work. If they would run GPU data and needed that extra ram from the slower pool then u get the 660ti / 970gtx effect where all the memory gets boggled down.
Now why go for such a weird way of memory solution? as it seems like?
1) BC with xbox one X
2) shared pools where always bad, they were never efficient even remotely. Just look at the PS4, probably only 3-3,5gb of memory was actually used out of that pool at its full speed, if they slammed in DDR3 3gb and 5gb of v-ram u would probably have a better performing system. Sadly 3gb and 5gb wouldn't make a lot of sense for there achitecture so they would have to do exactly what microsoft does right now increase the v-ram pool and lower the system ram.
3) more bandwidth because:
"Graphics power isn't just about teraflops - compute power needs to be backed up with memory bandwidth "
He's 100% right on this front. Also a big thing high end PC gamers pay attention towards.
Now what about the PS5 memory solution?
PS5 uses 448gb's memory the same memory as a 9,2tflop 5700xt RDNA1 funny enough. As far as i know for 4k 5700xt doesn't seem to have much issue's with that memory solution, its probably also why they opted for it. For raytracing however, it seems slow. Maybe sony will simple ignore raytracing entirely next gen or limit it or simple fakes it.
Raytracing is going to be shit anyway on any hardware that's currently out right now even PC, unless nvidia starts to make major strides on it, i don't see it going anywhere at this point.
Anyway to look at memory speeds.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Information that developers have spoken on might not be to your liking but it's still good inside knowledge
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Most data will need the fast pool especially graphics and the 4K output
what are you writing all this for?
still does not refute what I have already written.
Isn't it a problem now?
On the PS3 it was.
The truth is this:
game uses UP TO 10GB on sx:
sx> ps5
game uses MORE than 10GB of RAM in the sx:
PS5> sx
sx should have 20GB of RAM, for all memory to have the same access at the speed of 560GB / s.
It is likely that with 20GB of RAM it exceeded the fixed value of production cost ... As they could not cut on TF, for xbox fanboys to have something to celebrate on the internet since there are no games, they cut in the amount and practicality of RAM
While xbox fans are talking shit about the PS5 on the internet, they are distracted from the reality that the xbox one they have was a complete waste the entire generation, that xoneX's "true 4k" delivers "true 4k" only at Forza Motorsport
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Kenpachii
Member
It refutes it because this is what u keep chanting even while its not true. Even eurogamer article where a dev that worked on that box goes into great detail about the solution says this. They share all the numbers.
It's not how it works. Both memory pools will be used at its full speed for its tasks it does, this is why its a split pool.
That u think its all PR that's great. U can also revoke that the xbox has 16gb of memory, could be 8gb because PR, u could also dismiss they have ryzen or rdna2 because its all PR. See how that makes sense? Maybe the PS5 doesn't even exist at all because cerny is just PR, maybe its a hot tub.
That's the thing, u can question PR all day, but there is honestly no reason to even remotely doubt the information that is shared. The same that nobody has to doubt sony PS5 has 16gb of memory at the speeds they push, because its exaclty what 5700xt has under its belt. it makes total sense for such GPU solution.
The same as xbox series X if u do the calculations needs 556gb's memory for its v-ram pool if you compare it towards the 5700xt solution for its 12tflop solution. So 560 makes sense.
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Journey
Banned
You do realize that this "often at its 10.28" is still lower than the "Constant" 12.16 Tflops, right? Vram = 10GB @ 560GB/s, that's a lot faster than 448GB/s, you might want to argue that 10GB is not enough, but not that there's a bottleneck, if this was a setup like PS3 where 256MB was RDRAM and the other 256MB was DDR3, now we're looking at 50% of your memory running at a different speed and games often requiring more than 256MB for that generation, this caused headaches for developers when games exceeding 256MB, yet they still managed, albeit with headaches. XSX does NOT have a 50/50 split.
I pointed out how The Witcher 3 uses up 3GB of VRAM while running at 4K with everything set to ULTRA, so if we expect next gen games to TRIPPLE that by the end of it, we're then still looking at 9GB of VRAM which is still within the 10GB allocated by XSX at the fast 560GB/s vs PS5's slower 448GB/s across all of its memory. That's the real limitation, never able to go above 448GB/s while your competitor can hit 560GB/s while working within 10GB of VRAM, please explain your logic?
Dontero
Banned
On PS3 it was a problem because there wasn't much ram and it was split between slow and fast ram and it was coupled further with vertex and pixel shader pipelines. On SEX BOTH ram speeds will be used at the same time. Even in worst situation SEX will have faster ram.
Either way SEX performance is not a problem it WILL be faster than PS5.
Lockhart is the issue if it exist. Because if it exist then both PS5 and SEx will be basically pro versions of Lockhart providing better resolution, framerate and few effects rather than having 10TF base games.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
From a dev's words and I'm paraphrasing here, the XSX will drop a ton of CUs when they're not given properly divided resources. Also the ram's asymmetric configuration and MS going wide and slow means less frequency
A faster GPU clock boosts up every part of the GPU like memory, caches and rasterization. This is why the spec sheet can be misconstrued
These consoles will be very similar
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SuperLupeRap
Banned
SuperLupeRap
Banned
Nothing to "clear up" on the XSX side. Everything is as clear as day. No BS, no spins, no damage control, no disinformation.
All that crap is PS5 exclusive.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Can you rebuttal it with disproving information?Absolute rubbish
SuperLupeRap
Banned
No need to rebutall it since facts and figures aren't enough for you guys.
Just keep in mind that some people were also saying that specs don't "paint the whole picture" when they revealed the Xbox One was weaker.
Well guess what? Nobody can bend the law of physics and the weaker console ended up being the weaker console just like the specs and figures indicated.
Don't keep your hopes up too high for any kind of magical PS5 performance that propels it to more than what the specs tell us.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Most of the Xbox One talk back then was coming from MS. There are 3rd party developers and credible people with good track records saying that these 2 consoles are very similar in performance. Don't expect a huge difference
This is definitely not a last gen situation
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PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
So the cooling unit is not around $1 but around $3-5 for every PS5.We've been learning a little bit more about Sony's next-gen PlayStation 5 thanks to a new report by Bloomberg, where the site reported that the manufacturing costs of the PlayStation 5 is sitting at around $450.
PlayStation 5 cooling system is 'lavish', makes the PS5 more expensive
Sony is doubling down on the V-shaped cooling system for the next-gen PlayStation 5.www.tweaktown.com
But in the report we also learn that Sony is putting some serious work into the cooling system for the PlayStation 5, with Bloomberg reporting Sony opted to "lavish more" on the cooling system to make sure "heat dissipation from the powerful chips housed inside the console isn't an issue".
Bloomberg wrote: "Most of the components for the console have been locked down, the people said, including the cooling system, which is unusually expensive at a few dollars per unit", adding that "typically, companies would spend less than a dollar" on the cooling system -- but Sony opted to "lavish more" on the PlayStation 5 cooling system.
I'm still expecting the PlayStation 5 to debut with the wicked V-shaped design, something that doesn't just look interesting but it'll be important for the cooling of the various chips inside of the PS5. Now the renders being leaked over the last few months are making more sense, given that a reputable site like Bloomberg is reporting that Sony chose to "lavish more" on the cooling system of the PS5.
Shoutout tosendit for bringing this to our attention!
Hold on to your horses, that fact will push the retailprice for the PS5 skyhigh. I expect $800-900 at least
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LordOfChaos
Member
So the cooling unit is not around $1 but around $3-5 for every PS5.
Hold on to your horses, that fact will push the retailprice for the PS5 skyhigh. I expect $800-900 at least
This is why I'm somewhat bemused by the cooling cost discussions - it's more expensive, but vs cooling that cost a dollar in last gen. It's still just a few dollars, and surely not enough to make up for the CU difference. I think you could make about 4 PS5 APUs for every 3 SeX ones, unless something unrevealed blows up silicon cost, even considering the IO complex.
Let's wait and see where MRPSs land, I think it'll all make sense and both camps will have something to be happy about.
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SuperLupeRap
Banned
3rd party devs? Like that Crytek mobile dev that has never ever seen the XSX or PS5 devkits and that did an interview in Farsi? Or are you talking about Jason Schreier who's in "secret meetings" with "secret devs" ?
Not one single reputable person who has the devkits has said anything that you are claiming.
What I actually said on Kotaku Splitscreen about the PlayStation 5's specs
Earlier today, someone made an awful thread based on a lengthy conversation I had on the Kotaku Splitscreen podcast by transcribing a single line from it, and it led to 12 pages of truly embarrassing discourse. Since so many of you commented and reacted without actually listening to the episode...
www.resetera.com
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The Ready at Dawn dev, Jason Schreier's 3rd party contacts, Moore's Law's DICE dev contacts. Read the interview again, that developer is doing work on other projects besides mobile and you don't think someone at Crytek would be privy to that kind of information anyway? LOL
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SuperLupeRap
Banned
The Ready at Dawn dev, Jason Schreier's 3rd party contacts,
So Somebody who was on Sony's payroll and Jason Schreier's secret contacts. Right!
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Believe what you want but you'll see that both are powerful and on the same level soon
Vroadstar
Member
Lol, then better coordinate with your x comrade then, because he's the one clearing in behalf of xbox and not PS5.
And exclusive you say? yup PS got plenty of those! TLOU2 and GoT incoming AAA! But then you get to play Bleeding Edge, so all good
But when horizon zero dawn came out on the PC, then his contacts were worth it.
What will be the narrative after the games come out?
Sony paying? same as Destiny 2 that could be 60fps in "true 4k actually fake", but isn't it because sony "paid" to sabotage the poor MS that has no money to pay too?
"shitting" PS5 topics will not make a piece of shit xbox have GOTYs 90+ AAA.
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SuperLupeRap
Banned
Playing Ori, higher rated than anything Sony put out out this year, and last year for that matter.
Bye.
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SuperLupeRap
Banned
But when horizon zero dawn came out on the PC, then his contacts were worth it.
What will be the narrative after the games come out?
Sony paying? same as Destiny 2 that could be 60fps in "true 4k actually fake", but isn't it because sony "paid" to sabotage the poor MS that has no money to pay too?
"shitting" PS5 topics will not make a piece of shit xbox have GOTYs 90+ AAA.
Have no idea why you keep on responding to my posts. Haven't you realised yet I don't even bother responding to you ?
sendit
Member
Journey
Banned
You're assuming 10GB of VRAM isn't enough for games, or that XSX will ever have to access the slower pool because you're assuming all of PS5's 16GB can and or will be used for games, but just like PS4, it will need to reserve memory for OS functions, and the CPU and audio will also use up memory. PS4 reserved 3.5GB for its OS, leaving the rest for games, audio, cpu, etc., that alone will leave 12.5GB for the rest, including CPU and audio which can easily consume the 2.5GB of memory, so what does that leave for games? Yup, 10GB of GDDR6 @ 448GB/s vs Xbox Series X 10GB of GDDR6 @560GB/s.
Explain under what logic would the PS5 have a memory advantage? You think it will ever use 12GB for games and Xbox Series X would be limited to only having 10GB and therefore having to dig in to the slower pool? well read the paragraph above, the PS5 also needs memory for other things, it won't necessarily have much over 10GB for Vram anyway even if a game ever exceeded that.
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sircaw
Banned
did they fix/patch out that terrible fps drop down to 30 fps from 60 yet?
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