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PlayStation 5 Pro Could Be the Best Place to Play Multiplatform Games With Bad PC Ports; There Will Be No Reason to Use FSR Over PSSR
Can i do that on a $700 pc? If yes then will build one and cancel my Pro pre-order. Will it runs better the games vs the pro?
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Team Andromeda
Member
It's not fair at all IMO. Overlooking the cost difference, consoles memory and CPU( and its speed ) are locked in unlike the PC where you can overclock or change the CPU and add more and faster memory for big performance gains
That's why one is called a console and the other a PC.
I never forget in 1996 when I 1st had a PC and went online for the 1st time, being told one of the easiest ways to improve performance on a PC was to double your RAM. It was true then as it is now and since you're such a big Xbox fan
even you must see that the memory issue of the Series S is a massive bottleneck, never mind how many games on the consoles are hit with the CPU bottleneck and PS5 Pro isn't a massive upgrade over the base PS5 in those depts, never mind trying to take on the PCAnd you don't need a Pro for a console to outdo a PC. Batman on the last gen was able to do that, but that was an expectation to the rule. One gets the odd crappy port on any system, even the best.
awwr999999
Member
Everyone loves great PS2 games and making console game development as accessible as possible will benefit gaming as a whole.
The ideal situation for sustainable gaming is one where making a good console game can be done for around the same cost as making an independent film.
I.e., a world where E40 and Master P could have each just as easily started their own independent video game studios.
A popular low cost platform is the only real hope of ever achieving that vision and PS1/PS2 HW piggybacking on current and future gen PS consoles is the best fit.
Beyond that, Sony can sell inexpensive digital-only PS2s everywhere people aren't buying PS5s and the inherently smaller game size will make downloading new games less of a dealbreaker.
India has lots of software engineers, modern PS1/PS2 dev kits could cost very little and systems needed to make PS1 and PS2 games are easier to come by than systems needed to make newer games.
Launch digital-only PS2 in India along with a program to incentivize the formation of small Indian game studios.
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Zathalus
Member
Steam survey is linked to hardware, not user accounts. Each hardware configuration would be unique. When you get a prompt for the Survey it specifically states it will collect all hardware information, like HWID.Not sure if you were joking (I suck at picking up cues) but I don't actually have 4 of each console. I have 1 PS5, 1 PS4 Pro, 2 PS4, 1 Switch, 1 Gaming/workstation PC (have a lot of PCs in general though) and a PS5 Pro soon.
I was just saying if you were to start using "users" to calculate hardware sales for my household you would end up quadrupling the actual hardware sales because there are 4 household users on these devices.
Gaiff is using monthly active users to extrapolate hardware sales for PC GPUs when some (likely not that small) portion of users are sharing the same single hardware throughout a month and he's putting it up against actual hardware numbers for PS.
You can’t do that on a $700 PC and play games better then the Pro. You can’t do that for Black Myth on the Pro either.
DoubleClutch
Member
Maybe not brand new but one could easily find second hand parts for that much or less.
Furthermore, comparing pure hardware dollars of PC vs. Consile isn’t wise. A PC may cost more upfront, but it’s better in every way, even assuming the PC in question is identical to the power of a PS5 Pro.
No need to pay for online, plenty of free games through Epic, Prime, general giveaways, cheaper prices for almost every game… etc.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
No it’s not, stop spouting subjective BS
There’s many reasons why a console, as a gaming centered device, is superior for consuming gaming and media in the entertainment center for someone who wants day 1 releases of Sony titles and consistently well optimized ports with none of the hassle factors associated with pc
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You're confusing things in the calculation. Nobody said the hardware percentages from Steam survey are based on users. It's when you use the 132M MAU (users) to try and turn those percentages into hardware sales that is wrong. MAU are not based on unique hardware, it's a user count.
It's akin to saying 20% of homes in a town are flats. Then using the town's 100M population to say there are 20M flats in the town. There isn't. A large portion of the population shares houses and flats.
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Zathalus
Member
True, but how many of those users share the same PC? And how many users have multiple PCs? It's obviously not zero but is the number so statistically significant that it will throw off the numbers by more then roughly 10 percent? I'm pretty sure that most users have a single hardware device they use. I doubt two or more users sharing a PC is at all common, considering how personal PC usage can be outside of gaming.
In terms of public shared PCs, Chinese internet cafes have fallen off a cliff in terms of popularity, and even there the top 20 played games are not even on Steam.
Honestly the numbers estimated from Steam monthly users is probably lowballing it considering the some of the most popular PC titles are not even on Steam, especially in China as mentioned. Yearly discrete GPUs from AMD/Nvidia (so not integrated, not datacenter, and not professional GPUs) are between 40-50 million, and while obviously not every single one would be used for gaming, the majority certainly are. So again the numbers are probably conservative.
Guilty_AI
Member
Like, i, said, there is absolutely no need to develop for a ps1/2 emulator to achieve what you described. In fact you've just explained what the the current indie market is, only difference being devs make their low-cost low-spec games natively for the platform they want, usually PC followed by the current consoles if they see great success.
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Loboxxx
Member
And ask for a tower the size of the PS5pro, with the same silent refiregration system and have it set up for you so that you just turn on, select the game and play.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Lovely story, but it disproves nothing.It's not fair at all IMO. Overlooking the cost difference, consoles memory and CPU( and its speed ) are locked in unlike the PC where you can overclock or change the CPU and add more and faster memory for big performance gains
That's why one is called a console and the other a PC.
I never forget in 1996 when I 1st had a PC and went online for the 1st time, being told one of the easiest ways to improve performance on a PC was to double your RAM. It was true then as it is now and since you're such a big Xbox fan
And you don't need a Pro for a console to outdo a PC. Batman on the last gen was able to do that, but that was an expectation to the rule. One gets the odd crappy port on any system, even the best.
Also, one doesn’t have to be a fan of Xbox to know the Series S’ weaknesses. Developers already told us that. Even you should be aware, despite how much you Stan for it.
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brenobnfm
Member
Except you don't own any of them, PC is more expensive in any situation.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
What's the difference between PS's trophies and Steam's cheevos? I've never cared for neither but I'm curious, many people seem to make a deal out of this.
Guilty_AI
Member
I assume its because ps trophies were designed around players being able to show them off (like different difficulty tiers)
brenobnfm
Member
Also Steam achievements are easily unlocked with cheats, Valve don't give a fuck about it.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This is compared to a regular PS5, not a Pro. The point is people build PCs to customize their experience. You’re generally much less at the mercy of the devs like with Wukong where your choices are just bad or worse. For instance, will there be a Pro patch for Wukong? Maybe, maybe not.
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Zathalus
Member
4080 laptop has similar performance to a desktop 4070. Some games it is faster, other slightly slower. Its a larger chip with lower clocks speeds.
Er no, I'm mentioning the feature sets the average PC gamer would have.
Hence why I split them, you were discussing feature set and performance vs the PS5. You can have DLSS and still have a weaker card then the PS5, but that GPU will still have DLSS.
There is never guarantee of anything. Some PS5 users might switch over to PC gaming, but who knows if either is a statistically significant number.
Most PC users have a weaker GPU than a PS5. There are also more PC users than PS5 players that have a more powerful GPU. Not all Playstation gamers are only on PS5 either. About half still use older consoles.
Of course it is better value from a hardware perspective. So is every other console ever. Its certainly not better value then the digital PS5 was back in 2020.
Bojji
Member
And based on their decisions with PS5 version it might be fucked anyway, they clearly don't know what they are doing on consoles.
Some interesting video I have seen yesterday, Polish site compared PC form of PS5 (6700, 3700x) vs. 2 variants of "Pro" with 6800 and 7700XT (plus that 3700X)
Obviously Pro is close in raster to those GPUs but they lack PSSR support. Raster performance should be representative, very high (bardzo wysokie) is above PS5 settings:
Interestingly RT performance of 7700XT is not far from 2x of 6700.
They fucked up by not matching settings on PC, but % of upgrade is clearly seen. Many games are also very CPU limited in 1080p (less so in 1440p):
So yeah it's not a fair/1:1/apples to apples comparison in the end but shows raw difference between PS5 and Pro GPU in power.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
And based on their decisions with PS5 version it might be fucked anyway, they clearly don't know what they are doing on consoles.
Some interesting video I have seen yesterday, Polish site compared PC form of PS5 (6700, 3700x) vs. 2 variants of "Pro" with 6800 and 7700XT (plus that 3700X)
Obviously Pro is close in raster to those GPUs but they lack PSSR support. Raster performance should be representative, very high (bardzo wysokie) is above PS5 settings:
Interestingly RT performance of 7700XT is not far from 2x of 6700.
They fucked up by not matching settings on PC, but % of upgrade is clearly seen. Many games are also very CPU limited in 1080p (less so in 1440p):
So yeah it's not a fair/1:1/apples to apples comparison in the end but shows raw difference between PS5 and Pro GPU in power.
I think those comparisons are utterly pointless. He shouldn’t label any of them as PS5/PS5 Pro because they’re just PCs with the closest parts we can find, but I can practically guarantee you that his "Pro" PC will perform very differently than a real Pro.
A bit less than three weeks left anyway.
MikeM
Member
Others have commented but its also:
- The platinum isn’t taken away when DLC is dropped. On Steam, your 100% must include DLC wherein the Plat on PS is only for the vanilla game.
- they are celebrated on PS. The system will save about 20 seconds of video footage and add a banner once you achieve a platinum in game. It also takes a screenshot too. You can obviously adjust these in the settings as you wish, but its very satisfying and I often go back and watch my videos on how I got the Plat.
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Bojji
Member
We know that 6700 is more or less on PS5 level - same should be true for 7700XT in raster. Where he fucked up i using wrong (higher than PS5) settings.
What I didn't know before that they really have made some improvements in RT looking at 6800 and 7700XT in CP, most people say there were almost no RT improvements in RDNA3.
Even if there wasn’t a pro patch Black Myth on the Pro is going to be transformatively improved. That’s just a fact.
People buy consoles and have options for their experiences and they buy the games for those experiences, and increasingly over shoddy issue ridden PC ports where the cost of getting an experience as issue free as the console? Ain’t cheap. It’s also not uncommon that issues with PC ports are never resolved to the level of the console version.
There is going to be a pro patch FYI.
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Bojji
Member
Without the patch it will be THE SAME.
60fps with frame gen
45fps locked
30fps
That's why people said how incompetent Wukong devs were, there is room for Pro to show power difference in this game thanks to dumb developers decisions.
Not at all stop lying and omitting crucial details as to performance you certainly don’t do this when the shoe is on the other foot
Can you not stand the fact that the Pro will clean up every single title you run on it without developer patch’s just like on a PC? It’s a very odd tact you’re choosing here.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Doubtful. Quality Mode is capped to 30, so the Pro does nothing there. Balanced Mode is capped to 45, so the Pro won’t do much either. Will increase it by a few fps. Performance is capped to 60 but using Frame Generation. Not sure how the Pro will play with this one. Could override frame gen and lower latency.
It won’t be transformative without a patch.
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That simply isn’t true and you’re both showing a clear fallacy with how you view issues on each machine. You know framerate caps and modes don’t tell the whole story ever so stop pretending otherwise.
Black Myth has a LOT of performance issues on the base unit that are a noticeable hindrance to the gameplay and experience in each mode. the fact that you’re either unaware of this or don’t care shows a clear double standard. Even if these settings were locked on PC but issue free you’d cite the PC version as the definitive way to play the game.
This is ridiculous XD Come on man. I doubt you’ve even played it.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I played it on PC, not on PS5. From what I saw, the game is mostly locked to 60 in Performance Mode since it’s using frame generation anyway. How could it not be?
Balanced is capped to 45fps and is mostly 40-45.
Quality is mostly locked to 30 at 1440p.
How will the Pro "transform" this experience without a patch?
PSSR isn’t there. There’s no RT mode, and the 45% better GPU won’t be of much use. Explain how it will improve without the dev patching it.
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winjer
Gold Member
But those improvements in RT are small.
Compare the numbers for raster and RT, between the 7700XT and the 6800.
The 7700XT was always the faster card. With raster, the performance difference is 12.6%
With RT in CP2077, the performance difference is 19.3%.
That is just a 6.7% improvement gen over gen. Very little, when AMD was claiming RT gains of up to 50%.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
You can tell everything about these guys by their obviously disingenuous posts. Black Myth Wukong and many others will absolutely get improvements from boost mode. This game in performance mode is going to run much closer to a locked 60 even without a patch.
One thing that will be interesting is benchmarking games on PS5 Pro in boost mode and games that receive full patches at a later date.
But these guys aren't here for that. They're here to downplay the PS5 Pro and you have to ask yourself why. What's the gain?
So right, you haven’t played it on PS5 and you are unaware of the rampant frame drops, hitches, and image quality issues it has. But you’re pretending that the PS5 version generally runs those modes without issue sight unseen, when you’d never do the same for PC? All so you can minimize the positive uplift that running the game unpatched on PS5 Pro will have?
And it’s getting a pro patch FYI but that’s hardly the issue. Black Myth is a poster child for software that will provide a noticeably improved experience unpatched.
its certainly eye opening.
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Bojji
Member
Are you dumb?
Pro will clean up games with performance problems and dynamic resolutions. Games that are locked will be the same.
Wukong is locked by developers in every mode.
I guess… Intellectual dishonestly thy name is Bojji. Oh well.
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digdug2
Member
Wow, the lack of logic is killing me.
The game may be locked in all of those modes, BUT there are hitches and stutters and it struggles to get to the locked frame rate. What these guys are saying is that with Pro will improve the game to the point where it runs better. It's not going to magically remove frame caps.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Another thing is, he said it was capped to 30 in quality mode, which we know it isn't.
It goes as high as 38 fps in quality mode. The game likely isn't locked at all, which will be another interesting one for Boost Mode.
clarky
Gold Member
So what you are saying is:
Maybe PC Could Be the Best Place to Play Multiplatform Games With Bad Playstation Ports
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digdug2
Member
Bad Clarky, no treats for you.
clarky
Gold Member
Can't believe you guys are still at it tbh. Fair play.
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You get a point for sass
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No, I haven't, as I clearly stated. NxGamer says in his review, "The PS5 Performance Mode is mostly locked at 60 at least during gameplay."
So right, you haven’t played it on PS5 and you are unaware of the rampant frame drops, hitches, and image quality issues it has. But you’re pretending that the PS5 version generally runs those modes without issue sight unseen, when you’d never do the same for PC? All so you can minimize the positive uplift that running the game unpatched on PS5 Pro will have?
Traversal hitches and stutters won't be solved by faster hardware. It's just the way UE5 games are.
Balanced Mode is capped at 45fps and mostly hovers around 40-45fps because it's Performance Mode without frame generation.
I thought Quality Mode was capped at 30, but it turns out that it's unlocked. Not sure if it's unlocked to 45 or 60 though as it never hits 45. This could be a good improvement, but it would bring the performance from around 30-35fps to 43-51fps. Still very unstable, but I guess better?
But it's not because most of its modes are in a weird state where they prevent huge increases without patches. Know what would be "transformative"?
Get rid of FSR and replace it with PSSR. Remove frame generation. Upscale from 1080>4K using PSSR, which would no doubt be better than FSR. You get a locked 60 with a significantly higher IQ than with FSR. Then add hardware RTGI and if some performance is left, throw in reflections too. THIS would be transformative. As it stands, the best the Pro can do is improve the fps of the Quality Mode or perhaps override frame generation in Performance Mode to lower latency. It could also presumably lock Balanced Mode from 40-45 to 45. If that's "transformative" to you, I don't know what to say.
And for the record, the PC I used as an example was a PS5-tier PC where it's already possible to get better options exactly because you can tweak your settings instead of letting the dev decide for you and leave you stuck with a bunch of undesirable options.
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digdug2
Member
I keep getting notifications, so I'll pop in and see what goofy shit everyone has had to say.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The game already runs mostly locked at 60 according to NxGamer. WTF will boost mode do there? Balanced Mode is capped to 45 and mostly runs at 40-45. Again, WTF will boost mode do there? Quality Mode is actually unlocked but runs at 30-35 fps, so you will get the game at running at 43-51fps. Awesome lol.
I swear, you guys get defensive and when evidence gets thrown in your face, you resort to calling people disingenuous.
Those are traversal stutters mate. How will they be solved by the Pro?
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
You can see that the game doesn't run locked at 60. You already admit that you were completely wrong about the game being locked to 30.
Given you're completely wrong about the two things you said about this game, maybe you should take a second, pause, and think about why you're putting out information that is once again easily verifiably wrong.
I don't know how you can call that anything but disingenuous.
What did I say about Boost Mode, that it would get you closer to an actual locked 60 and it would take you well above the mid 30s this game delivers, and if it can get you high enough, in VRR might be worth playing in that mode.
All of this is to discuss the game untouched... which again, most don't believe it will remain.
You have no evidence, you've been wrong about everything you've said...
MisterXDTV
Member
Except games are made for consoles first....
They are not PORTED to PS5, they are MADE for PS5
The target is always the top selling hardware and that's not high-end PC
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Mostly locked 60. Don't be fucking dishonest. What we're asking is how the Pro will "transform" this experience if it already mostly runs it at 60. It's awesome that it will be locked to 60, but the PS5 already gets reasonably close.
The only wrong thing I got was Quality Mode being locked to 30. Now you're trying to nitpick me saying it's locked to 60 when I said the following:
And NxGamer echoed what I said. So where the fuck was I wrong with that, o hypocrite lord?
Yet the evidence is on my side. I said mostly locked to 60.
It's already mostly locked 60 anyway. What I said was that Boost Mode might override frame generation and allow for lower latency. The game running at 30-35fps will get you to 43-51fps. You're still well outside of the VRR window, so it's still undesirable.
No, I've been absolutely and 100% correct about everything except the 30fps lock to Quality Mode, but then, I don't think 43-51fps going all over the place is all that good either, so me.
clarky
Gold Member
Spot the guy who can't spot the joke........
Wukong was ported to PS though mate, hence the joke. har har.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Find me a boss fight that stays at a locked 60... it doesn't... To suggest it gets reasonably close, which isn't true of boss fights which are the main point of the game, suggests you not only don't know what you're talking about, but also that you have an agenda.
Because NxGamer is also wrong about the game being locked to 60. In regular gameplay maybe, but when you get to the bosses, you're dropping frames.
lol... keep telling yourself that. You were wrong about quality mode AND you're wrong about performance mode.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Then: Playstation gamers begging for Xbox ports
Now: PlayStation gamers begging for PC players
Now: PlayStation gamers begging for PC players
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
What about all those games that look, run and play better on PC?