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PlayStation 5 Pro Could Be the Best Place to Play Multiplatform Games With Bad PC Ports; There Will Be No Reason to Use FSR Over PSSR

Not at all stop lying and omitting crucial details as to performance you certainly don’t do this when the shoe is on the other foot

Can you not stand the fact that the Pro will clean up every single title you run on it without developer patch’s just like on a PC? It’s a very odd tact you’re choosing here.

I don't think you understand, without patches the Pro isn't going to improve or "clean up" a game UNLESS that game has Dynamic Resolution...and not all that many games even have DRS this gen...maybe 1/4 of all games might have DRS

Which is why i'm not happy with the list of games that are guaranteed getting Pro patches. Too many big games that seriously NEED Pro patches are not on the list, like: Cyberpunk 2077 (iq is total garbage even in Fidelity mode thanks to FSR), Black Myth, Silent Hill 2, Baulders Gate (this game looks clean), Far Cry 6, Space Marine 2, AC Valhalla, Dying Light 2(this looks crappy too on console) ...just a few off the top of my head.

Out of those games ^^ only FC6 has DRS afaik so literally that would be the ONLY game that would be "cleaned up". Just giving you an example

Between missing Pro patches and Sony's games using Performance Pro modes (a literal compromise between Fidelity and Framerate- which according to Cerny the Pro was supposed to solve), Sony isn't inspiring confidence that this console is going to be worth the money.
 

HeWhoWalks

Gold Member
This thread is much more relevant to PC gamers. If the PS5 Pro is the best place to play bad PC ports, then this means this is addressed to PC gamers, not console gamers who don't get bad PC ports lol.
Oh no, I agree my friend. I just meant the “war” of it. This is the most interesting thing happening at the moment, so the frontline “chaos” (if you will) makes total sense!
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
So they are triggered by the "bad PC ports" part:

I thought PC users themselves were the first in line to complain about PC ports blaming devs....

It's not exactly a secret, is it?
This is the kind of poster you are by the way.

Spend thousands of dollars on a Super PC ->Port beg for games made for consoles first -> complain about bad PC port/optimization

The joys of PC gaming

Just saying, you aren't known for being objective or argue in good faith. You damn well know what you're doing but are acting clueless.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I'm all for debate about topics, the truth always comes out from conversation.

I'm not as sensitive to some people regarding this.

You're basically just projecting my intentions....just like leftists do to people about racism, misogyny, etc.
people use the term "projecting" too much. What is there for me to project? i'm not the one who made the thread.

I'm just seeing what you're clearly doing and calling you out on it. All the stuff about "conversation revealing the truth" but you know the "conversation" that goes on in this site isn't very pretty or truthful lol. Look at the Switch thread from 2017 asking if it'd succeed to prove that

it's one thing to troll and be clear about it. it's another to troll and then act like you aren't trolling. Again, throwing rocks n hiding hands

So they are triggered by the "bad PC ports" part:

I thought PC users themselves were the first in line to complain about PC ports blaming devs....

It's not exactly a secret, is it?
It's a bit more nuanced than that, it's using that and then using it to push the narrative that PS5 pro will be the best way to push multiplatform games. essentially throwing PC under the bus for PS5. it's a very console war-ish title so you will get wars in the replies
 

Guilty_AI

Gold Member
I have a 4090 and thus far I'm still very paranoid about leaving it on when I'm outside the house.

(Went for a well-reviewed PSU and Card and installed the 12vhpwr connector firmly, but still..)
Paranoid or not, these components aren't so fragile that they'll break down just for staying on in idle for some hours.

People are not recommending laptops here tho. And people with PCs do in fact upgrade.

The 1060 is not the most installed gpu amongst Steam users anymore. That happens for a reason.

Also these same guys are the ones who will complain about bad ports whenever the new consoles come out and raise the floor for AA/AAA games (they are very obviously those who followed bad recommendations in the past and can't upgrade their PC well without having to do major surgery).
GAF is a niche of a niche. I'm talking about the real world. How many players do you think actually give a crap about those minimal stutters DF fishes out that people post here? Or get ocd about having to turn every option in the graphics settings to the max? Theres a reason why console players dont complain about stutters despite tests showing a lot of those "bad pc ports" often have the same problems on the console version (sillent hill 2 being the newest one). Because the average console player doesn't notice nor gives a shit, neither does the average PC player that goes on to give very positive reviews to these games.
 
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This is the kind of poster you are by the way.



Just saying, you aren't known for being objective or argue in good faith. You damn well know what you're doing but are acting clueless.

Nothing wrong with what you posted

PC Gamers do exactly that:

- Complain about the quality of PC ports all the time

- Get angry if some people suggest a console could be better for that use case...

LOL

It's one or the other

You can't have it both ways
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Sony just went with the HDMI Forum VRR spec which is 48-144hz, it's not Freesync.

No! They're morons! /sarcasm

The reality is that Freesync doesn't work with Sony TVs and only a handful of brands support Freesync.

Digital Foundry asked Sony about this when they went to test out the PS5 Pro. My guess is in order for the PS5 to adopt Freesync, Sony TVs would have to get a firmware update in order to support this first.

It's interesting because Inzone monitors support freesync, but Sony's TVs don't.
 
No! They're morons! /sarcasm

The reality is that Freesync doesn't work with Sony TVs and only a handful of brands support Freesync.

Digital Foundry asked Sony about this when they went to test out the PS5 Pro. My guess is in order for the PS5 to adopt Freesync, Sony TVs would have to get a firmware update in order to support this first.

It's interesting because Inzone monitors support freesync, but Sony's TVs don't.

Doesn't FreeSync work better on DisplayPort?

A monitor has a Display Port input, TVs don't
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I just don't know why people can't have an honest discussion about the PS5 Pro.
You tell us.

NxGamer and DF: The PS5 is mostly locked at 60fps.
Alex: With the exception of this boss fight, that giant wolf with a lot of fur, the game is a consistent 60fps.

You: It's not 60fps! You're lying and you're disingenuous! You even mentioned that one boss battle and try to dismiss it!
Also you: Why can't we have an honest discussion about the Pro?

Canadian Lol GIF
 

XXL

Gold Member
Why are you trying to police who has the rights to enter specific threads? Forum isn't yours you know.
I'm not policing anything. People can comment on what they want and moderators can figure it out.

But for example, I find going into the OT of games you don't own and arguing about a better games kind of ridiculous.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Doesn't FreeSync work better on DisplayPort?

A monitor has a Display Port input, TVs don't

Work better? I guess that depends on your definition.

TVs have freesync. LG OLEDS have freesync over HDMI, but Sony TVs do not. Samsung TVs also support freesync. AMD has a list of all TVs that support it and under what conditions.
 

XXL

Gold Member
people use the term "projecting" too much. What is there for me to project? i'm not the one who made the thread.

I'm just seeing what you're clearly doing and calling you out on it. All the stuff about "conversation revealing the truth" but you know the "conversation" that goes on in this site isn't very pretty or truthful lol. Look at the Switch thread from 2017 asking if it'd succeed to prove that

it's one thing to troll and be clear about it. it's another to troll and then act like you aren't trolling. Again, throwing rocks n hiding hands


It's a bit more nuanced than that, it's using that and then using it to push the narrative that PS5 pro will be the best way to push multiplatform games. essentially throwing PC under the bus for PS5. it's a very console war-ish title so you will get wars in the replies
Show me a comment that you consider me trolling? Quote it and we can discuss it.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I'm not policing anything. People can comment on what they want and moderators can figure it out.
Yes you are. Stop gaslighting. :lollipop_tongue:

But for example, I find going into the OT of games you don't own and arguing about a better games kind of ridiculous.
Why? Didn't know I have to own a game in order to be able to discuss it.
 

XXL

Gold Member
Why? Didn't know I have to own a game in order to be able to discuss it.
So you think I should go into Starfield OT and argue with everyone that Baldur Gate 3 is better constantly?

I've played Starfield btw and I still wouldn't do that
 
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TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
So you think I should go into Starfield OT and argue with everyone that Baldur Gate 3 is better constantly?

I've played Starfield btw and I still wouldn't do that
You can do whatever you want, that's the point I was making.

edit: if you ask me tho, I'd say that would be perfectly fine as long as you word your arguments nicely and not in a troll-y way.
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
It's worth mentioning that there isn't a single OLED tv that supports Freesync premium pro.

What this means is outside of Samsung TVs (and some other lesser non OLED TVs) you aren't getting freesync with HDR.

It's interesting that I don't hear anyone complaining about it on XSX.
 

XXL

Gold Member
You can do whatever you want, that's the point I was making.
That's a terrible argument.

In theory, sure. But in reality, no.

You'll be banned (temporarily) quickly.

Just like you can't post porn on here. You could, but you'd be banned...probably permanently.

Going into specific threads that have nothing to do with you....is as tacky as it gets. Even over people "trolling" in general discussions, in my opinion.

This isn't that hard to understand.
 
It's worth mentioning that there isn't a single OLED tv that supports Freesync premium pro.

What this means is outside of Samsung TVs (and some other lesser non OLED TVs) you aren't getting freesync with HDR.

It's interesting that I don't hear anyone complaining about it on XSX.

Xbox games tear all over the place, it might support Freesync, but most people are getting 48-120 as their VRR range because that's what HDMI 2.1 supports using the HDMI Forum standard.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
You'll be banned (temporarily) quickly.
They point I'm trying to make it is that you can do whatever the fuck you want, it's up to the mods to decide if what you are doing is fine or not.

It's not your call to decide that people that don't own a platform or a particular game aren't welcome on their threads.
 

XXL

Gold Member
They point I'm trying to make it is that you can do whatever the fuck you want, it's up to the mods to decide if what you are doing is fine or not.
I agree with this.

It's not your call to decide that people that don't own a platform or a particular game aren't welcome on their threads.
I'm not. For example, I personally don't care if PC gamers are in this thread talking about how great PC is (like I've said). It has do with PCs and PS5 Pro.

I just find it (in my opinion) extremely tacky to come to PS5 Pro only topics that have nothing to do with PC and talk about how much better a PC is.

That's all I'm saying.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I agree with this.
il_570xN.5030078858_11h0.jpg


I'm not. For example, I personally don't care if PC gamers are in this thread talking about how great PC is (like I've said). It has do with PCs and PS5 Pro.

I just find it (in my opinion) extremely tacky to come to PS5 Pro only topics that have nothing to do with PC and talk about how much better a PC is.

That's all I'm saying.
Yeah I agree on that, people can play their damn games wherever they prefer to. Still, it's not your call nor mine to decide what to do with this people. And it goes both ways, I've seen console bros on PC only threads coming to shit on them. But whatever, it is what it is and at the very least we can decide to put those on ignore (which I don't, it's funnier this way).
 
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Three

Gold Member
True, but how many of those users share the same PC? And how many users have multiple PCs? It's obviously not zero but is the number so statistically significant that it will throw off the numbers by more then roughly 10 percent? I'm pretty sure that most users have a single hardware device they use. I doubt two or more users sharing a PC is at all common, considering how personal PC usage can be outside of gaming.

In terms of public shared PCs, Chinese internet cafes have fallen off a cliff in terms of popularity, and even there the top 20 played games are not even on Steam.
These are just assumptions now, I've said above already I personally do not think this is a small portion so I disagree there. It's normal for households to share devices, particularly in those where a household only has one capable PC and more than one child. This may be less true in more affluent countries but a large portion of steam users are not from those countries. This is before you get into the Korean PC Bangs or other Internet cafes you mentioned.
Anecdotal evidence but I personally know 10 families abroad who have one gaming PC and all 10 of them share that PC with 1 or more family members playing f2p games like Dota or counterstrike. Even I share my PC often with family here in the UK.
 

XXL

Gold Member
And it goes both ways, I've seen console bros on PC only threads coming to shit on them.
I disagree with all of it.

I like threads like this, where different sides get passionate about their preferences. Some of it is bullshit, but you get some great discussion in between all that of people from whatever side bringing up great points about the positives and negatives of each platform.

I own every platform (and have my preferences) so I love to see it. I doesn't bother me like it does others. I think every platforms has its advantages and disadvantages (like consoles vs PCs), which I why I like owning both.
 

Zathalus

Member
These are just assumptions now, I've said above already I personally do not think this is a small portion so I disagree there. It's normal for households to share devices, particularly in those where a household only has one capable PC and more than one child. This may be less true in more affluent countries but a large portion of steam users are not from those countries. This is before you get into the Korean PC Bangs or other Internet cafes you mentioned.
Anecdotal evidence but I personally know 10 families abroad who have one gaming PC and all 10 of them share that PC with 1 or more family members playing f2p games like Dota or counterstrike. Even I share my PC often with family here in the UK.
I also know tons of people who game on PC and all of them have their own PC. I have 5 PCs in my house split among 3 people for example. With only two of us having Steam accounts as my daughter plays Roblox, Fortnite, and Minecraft, none of which is on Steam, yet she still has a gaming laptop.

Just considering that the peak concurrent daily user is almost 40 million, doesn’t really support that multiple people using the same PC is all that common, considering the various peak time zones that we have to deal with.

Even for the Chinese internet cafes none of the top 20 games are on Steam. Even talking about Steam, China has its own version of Steam called Steam China that while as not as popular as regular Steam has separate player counts etc… then we have WeGame as well which a lot of Chinese users use instead of Steam.

Then we get to the fact that globally Steam is only 80% of the premium PC games market and some of the worlds most popular titles are not even on it.

So yes, I agree the GPU count are assumptions, but considering all the points of data they are conservative assumptions.
 

Three

Gold Member
Corrected it later. I thought it was locked to 30, but GameScience wasn't wise enough to do such an obvious thing.
Sure take a postshot at Game Science but can you and Bojji at least now admit that Wukong with its best mode having both dynamic resolution scaling and an uncapped framerate could benefit from the Pro hardware without a patch?
 
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PandaOk

Member
Pro will clean up games with performance problems and dynamic resolutions.

Wukong is locked by developers in every mode.
Both of which BMW has FYI.

Unpatched Quality Mode should hit 60 or be within the VRR window during drops (though not every person has a VRR display. Provided, (and this is something I haven’t considered as the Quality mode can never reach it) Game Science didn’t use the a 45FPS cap a la Balance Mode. In such case I would recind my transformative comment.

Do you consider the different between 30 and 60 FPS in an action game to be transformative? Because 30FPS is seen an ‘unacceptable’ for an action game typically, isn’t it?

Unpatched the “60 FPS” performance mode is likely to stick to a locked 30. Instead of dropping down to sub 30FPS in a dodge heavy action game. Not ideal for an action game to be sure but it’s going to go from ‘very unplayable’ during key sequences to a consistent 30FPS.


Framerates

Quality: Unlocked 30FPS target. drops below 30FPS, up to 38FPS seen, unstable due to the sun and over 30 FPS range, causes consistent inconsistency.
Balanced: 40-45FPS range with a 45FPS cap. Constant improper frame pacing as a result.
Performance: drops well below 30FPS during almost every boss fight and key sequences, 30 FPS cap with Framegen to hit generated not real 60FPS.

Yes MBW is has an overall framerate lock in every mode, that does not mean however that those locks are hit in quality or performance mode in a satisfactory way.

Why are people bringing up performance mode as though FG 60 is real frames and it is massively unstable in visuals and responsiveness during any key scene/boss fight? Be most concerned if it’s maintaining 30FPS, be more concerned than ever in the scenario where framegen is used.

Also this post is getting long And no offense to anyone but it’s ludicrous to cite the first boss (which isn’t a boss in so far as the game scales them, more so a skill check standard enemy by comparison) and say ‘see the performance mode doesn’t drop much’. Even if it’s a litteral answer to asking to see a single boss without drops during a 30FPS framegened to 60 mode in an action game.

I don't think you understand, without patches the Pro isn't going to improve or "clean up" a game UNLESS that game has Dynamic Resolution...and not all that many games even have DRS this gen...maybe 1/4 of all games might have DRS

Which is why i'm not happy with the list of games that are guaranteed getting Pro patches. Too many big games that seriously NEED Pro patches are not on the list, like: Cyberpunk 2077 (iq is total garbage even in Fidelity mode thanks to FSR), Black Myth, Silent Hill 2, Baulders Gate (this game looks clean), Far Cry 6, Space Marine 2, AC Valhalla, Dying Light 2(this looks crappy too on console) ...just a few off the top of my head.

Out of those games ^^ only FC6 has DRS afaik so literally that would be the ONLY game that would be "cleaned up". Just giving you an example

Look, I don’t mean this in a denigrating way, but let me give you an example that’s actually accurate.

DRS is an extremely common feature, especially in newer titles and yes the Pro will clean up if not max out the DRS range — which we likely haven’t even seen the top end of with total familiarity or anywhere necessarily close to what the new average would be on Pro in comparison to the base model on every game, even unpatched.

So let’s go through each game you listed off of the top of your head, where you said that FarCry 6 is the only game to use DRS.

Black Myth Wukong
Quality: Observed DRS range from sample play is 1296p to 1584p per Digital Foundry and recorded on this websites DF thread on the game and spends most of its time around 1440P ‘because that’s the number that came up a few times.’
Balanced: 1080P with no dynamic res
Performance: drops as low as 720 caps at 1080P

Here’s a breakdown of each title you named that actually uses DRS. I disagree that Cyberpunks IQ is remotely garbage by the way, it’s main issue is with ghosting on cars.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean this disrespectfully but within the context of the claims about DRS

I don’t much care if
you find these ranges with FSR to not be good enough.

I don’t much care if you find XYZ setting to be good enough on the base system.

Both of these are entirely subjective and moving the goalposts.

The conversation is on the prevalence of DRS, and generally speaking it is near ubiquitous for AAA games on consoles. I will gladly enjoy the free perks of these unpatched games and am happy to have them. :)

Cyberpunk 2077

“The quality presets chosen by CD ProjektRED for PS5 and Xbox Series X are basically identical. However, while both use FSR 2 upscaling to reconstruct to 1800p, the dynamic resolution ranges do differ: Xbox Series X's DRS range is 1152p to 1440p, while PS5's equivalent is 1008p to 1440p”

Silent Hill 2
cIn9dr1.png


Baulder’s Gate 3
Performance options By default, the game's Performance mode will be enabled on PS5 - this targets a 60fps output with dynamic resolution scaling. Disabling Performance mode will lock the game to 30fps and a native 1440p resolution.

Far Cry 6
On PlayStation 5, Far Cry 6 runs in a dynamic 4K resolution at 60FPS and this also applies to the Xbox Series X version. Meanwhile, the team has done a pretty great job optimizing the title as it manages to run in 1440p/60FPS on the Xbox Series S.

Space Marine 2
In quality mode on the premium consoles, expect a dynamic internal resolution from 1080p to 1440p, scaled to a 4K display with FSR2. Speed mode has a lower internal resolution in the push to 60fps, ranging from 720p to 1080p, with the same FSR2 upscale to 4K.

AC Valhalla
On the PS5, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla uses dynamic resolution scaling to maintain performance. In performance mode, the resolution typically ranges between 1440p and 1728p, while aiming for a consistent 60 FPS. It can drop slightly lower during demanding scenes but generally stays within this range. In quality mode, the resolution can go up to 4K (2160p) but locks the frame rate at 30 FPS

Dying Light 2
Is in fact the only game on this list that to my memory does not use Dynamic Resolution Scaling.



Between missing Pro patches and Sony's games using Performance Pro modes (a literal compromise between Fidelity and Framerate- which according to Cerny the Pro was supposed to solve), Sony isn't inspiring confidence that this console is going to be worth the money.


I think you have a very skewed perception of what the situation is, clearly. That said this is probably a good thing! You’re likely to be pleasantly surprised!

I’d also suggest you check out threads on this forum that tracks games with uncapped frame rates.
 
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Three

Gold Member
I also know tons of people who game on PC and all of them have their own PC. I have 5 PCs in my house split among 3 people for example. With only two of us having Steam accounts as my daughter plays Roblox, Fortnite, and Minecraft, none of which is on Steam, yet she still has a gaming laptop.
More anecdotal evidence of your household though. Likely from the US too?
Just considering that the peak concurrent daily user is almost 40 million, doesn’t really support that multiple people using the same PC is all that common, considering the various peak time zones that we have to deal with.
Based on what exactly?
Even for the Chinese internet cafes none of the top 20 games are on Steam. Even talking about Steam, China has its own version of Steam called Steam China that while as not as popular as regular Steam has separate player counts etc… then we have WeGame as well which a lot of Chinese users use instead of Steam.
You seem hung up on Chinese Internet cafes which would have an effect but I'm talking about households anyway. Even then you have Dota and CSGO among the top played games. Games that are ONLY on steam in addition to the games that are also available on steam. Those charts are based on hours anyway and not logins.
Then we get to the fact that globally Steam is only 80% of the premium PC games market and some of the worlds most popular titles are not even on it.

So yes, I agree the GPU count are assumptions, but considering all the points of data they are conservative assumptions.
They're not conservative at all. They're broad assumptions. "Only 80" is pretty huge but even then notice you say "premium" games market (ie paid games). Paid games that are not on steam are not some of the worlds most popular titles, in fact sales often are drastically muted when not on steam and they dont get off the ground. This doesn't even prevent somebody from logging into both EGS and Steam within a month either so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Most MAU isn't from premium games anyway, countless users log in to play mostly f2p games like Dota and Counter Strike globally.

we can agree to disagree, it's clear that you're going on feeling and assumption and have no real data to come to any sort of conclusion.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sure take a postshot at Game Science but can you and Bojji at least now admit that Wukong with its best mode having both dynamic resolution scaling and an uncapped framerate could benefit from the Pro hardware without a patch?
Its best mode being? Balanced?

Performance: 1080p locked to 60fps using frame generation
Balanced: 1080p (no dynamic res) locked to 45fps
Quality: Mostly 1440p using DRS and FSR to output to 4K unlocked (45 or 60fps)

And yes, it will benefit. What I was arguing against was that it would be "transformative" because it won't be.

Performance Mode is already mostly 60 but it uses frame gen. I said for this one, the Pro could potentially have no need for frame gen and get a "native" 60, diminishing latency, but I'm unsure how it will play with frame gen without a patch.

Balanced Mode: It mostly hovers around 40-45fps and is locked to 45. The Pro would ensure a locked 45.

Quality Mode: That mode is constantly in the 30s. Even with a boost mode, you'd be in the 40s and 50s and that's assuming it's not capped at 45.

How is any of this "transformative"? I said for it to be transformative, the dev would need to get to work. Remove frame gen, increase the internal res, get rid of FSR and replace it with PSSR, remove that silly 45fps cap, and add RTGI and perhaps reflections if there is enough juice left in the tank. That would be transformative. A boost mode would still leave you with shitty FSR, the same 45fps cap in the balanced mode, and in performance mode, merely lower latency and clean up frame drops.

This was in response to this:
Even if there wasn’t a pro patch Black Myth on the Pro is going to be transformatively improved. That’s just a fact.
Not without a patch it won't be transformatively improved.
He didn't know what he was talking about. Said it anyways and then doubled down.
Literally my next post after you brought it up going to up to 38fps.

I thought Quality Mode was capped at 30, but it turns out that it's unlocked.

Doubled down. How?
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Doubled down. How?

You blamed Game Science for why you were wrong.

You talked out of your ass and then simply put it on the developers for you being wrong.

I told you boss fights weren't locked to 60 and then you show me a DF video saying the same and say oh but its only this one boss fight.

It's one of the first bosses in the game and its not locked to 60, but you're again CONFIDENT that the rest of the game is locked to 60 perfectly and that the Pro could help push it to 60 across the board.

You have an agenda and it is a silly one.
 

Three

Gold Member
Its best mode being? Balanced?
No, the Quality mode.


Performance: 1080p locked to 60fps using frame generation
Balanced: 1080p (no dynamic res) locked to 45fps
Quality: Mostly 1440p using DRS and FSR to output to 4K unlocked (45 or 60fps)
Why do you mention FSR on the 30fps mode as if the other modes don't have FSR?
And yes, it will benefit. What I was arguing against was that it would be "transformative" because it won't be. Quality Mode: That mode is constantly in the 30s. Even with a boost mode, you'd be in the 40s and 50s and that's assuming it's not capped at 45.
No you were saying it simply would not benefit even when you had no experience of the PS5 version at all:
Doubtful. Quality Mode is capped to 30, so the Pro does nothing there.
The subjective matter of it being "transformative" when that 30fps Quality mode will offer the higher fps benefits of Balanced Mode (your believed best mode?) at Quality settings is something you can keep arguing with any improvement no matter what it is.
 
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PandaOk

Member
people really ought stop refering to it as 60. It’s 30FPS framegened to 60FPS in an action game! Any time it dips at all it’s going below 30FPS yeah? Except even worse due to the input latency variability, disconnect with visual responsiveness, and the fact that it’s happening during the vast majority of boss fights in an action game. Also the traversal stutters (that are the most frequent in the performance mode) are even worse because of framegen. Why is this game so hard for people to understand. DmC wasn’t this bad and it was roasted.

The quality mode as is has constant juddering caused by being within a 25 - 38 tops FPS window, in an action game. The idea that getting it up to within a VRR window or removing the dips below 30 in performance mode isn’t a transformative difference for this type of content, I dunno man.

I can easily find quotes from Alex, Oliver, DF all calling the performance mode terrible by the way. Just not good enough, etc. If quality mode isn’t capped at 45 FPS then yeah chances are even unpatched the Pro can provide a transformative experience.
 
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Zathalus

Member
More anecdotal evidence of your household though. Likely from the US too?
Anecdotal evidence in response to your anecdotal evidence. I thought that was obvious? And not US, Western Europe and South Africa.

Based on what exactly?
Based on the rest of the sentence you didn't highlight. That's kind of how peak users and time zones work. If 40 million was my peak active user count at any single point during the day, and I serve a global audience, my daily user account across the globe will be significantly higher then that.

You seem hung up on Chinese Internet cafes which would have an effect but I'm talking about households anyway. Even then you have Dota and CSGO among the top played games. Games that are ONLY on steam in addition to the games that are also available on steam. Those charts are based on hours anyway and not logins.
I'm mentioning Chinese internet cafes as they are likely the largest amount of users that would share computers. Considering the number of internet cafes that serve people. But that market is disappearing.

They're not conservative at all. They're broad assumptions. "Only 80" is pretty huge but even then notice you say "premium" games market (ie paid games). Paid games that are not on steam are not some of the worlds most popular titles, in fact sales often are drastically muted when not on steam and they dont get off the ground. This doesn't even prevent somebody from logging into both EGS and Steam within a month either so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Most MAU isn't from premium games anyway, countless users log in to play mostly f2p games like Dota and Counter Strike globally.
I'm referring to both the paid and F2P market. Steam is roughly 80% of paid games on PC with the rest being GoG, Microsoft Store, Epic, and WeGame. Some of the most F2P popular games are separate from that, such as LoL, Fortnite, Minecraft, WoW, miHoYo games, and Tencent games. Playing all of those doesn't need Steam. So there is absolutely a significant gaming PC player base that is not logging onto Steam each month.

we can agree to disagree, it's clear that you're going on feeling and assumption and have no real data to come to any sort of conclusion.
I've listed daily peak player count, Steam survey, market share of Steam, extremely popular games outside of Steam, and shipped GPUs from Nvidia all pointing to the fact that 200 million number of Steam PC's is a credible ballpark figure and is likely underselling the PC market as a whole. You've posted feeling and anecdotal evidence.
 

Three

Gold Member
people really ought stop refering to it as 60. It’s 30FPS framegened to 60FPS in an action game! Any time it dips at all it’s going below 30FPS yeah? Except even worse due to the input latency variability, disconnect with visual responsiveness, and the fact that it’s happening during the vast majority of boss fights in an action game.

The quality mode as is has constant juddering caused by being within a 25 - 38 tops FPS window, in an action game. The idea that getting it up to within a VVR window or removing the dips below 30 in performance mode isn’t a transformative difference for this type of content, I dunno man.
Wukongs performance mode is strange, it mainstains 60fps almost always, where it doesn't is when it disables framegen in entire sections of the game. Those too will have benfits on a pro.
 
Both of which BMW has FYI.

Unpatched Quality Mode should hit 60 or be within the VRR window during drops (though not every person has a VRR display. Provided, (and this is something I haven’t considered as the Quality mode can never reach it) Game Science didn’t use the a 45FPS cap a la Balance Mode. In such case I would recind my transformative comment.

Do you consider the different between 30 and 60 FPS in an action game to be transformative? Because 30FPS is seen an ‘unacceptable’ for an action game typically, isn’t it?

Unpatched the “60 FPS” performance mode is likely to stick to a locked 30. Instead of dropping down to sub 30FPS in a dodge heavy action game. Not ideal for an action game to be sure but it’s going to go from ‘very unplayable’ during key sequences to a consistent 30FPS.


Framerates

Quality: Unlocked 30FPS target. drops below 30FPS, up to 38FPS seen, unstable due to the sun and over 30 FPS range, causes consistent inconsistency.
Balanced: 40-45FPS range with a 45FPS cap
Performance: drops well below 30FPS during almost every boss fight and key sequences, 30 FPS cap with Framegen to hit generated not real 60FPS.

Yes MBW is has an overall framerate lock in every mode, that does not mean however that those locks are hit in quality or performance mode in a satisfactory way.

Why are people bringing up performance mode as though FG 60 is real frames and it is massively unstable in visuals and responsiveness during any key scene/boss fight? Be most concerned if it’s maintaining 30FPS, be more concerned than ever in the scenario where framegen is used.

Also this post is getting long And no offense to anyone but it’s ludicrous to cite the first boss (which isn’t a boss in so far as the game scales them, more so a skill check standard enemy by comparison) and say ‘see the performance mode doesn’t drop much’. Even if it’s a litteral answer to asking to see a single boss without drops during a 30FPS framegened to 60 mode in an action game.



Look, I don’t mean this in a denigrating way, but let me give you an example that’s actually accurate.

DRS is an extremely common feature, especially in newer titles and yes the Pro will clean up if not max out the DRS range — which we likely haven’t even seen the top end of with total familiarity or anywhere necessarily close to what the new average would be on Pro in comparison to the base model on every game, even unpatched.

So let’s go through each game you listed off of the top of your head, where you said that FarCry 6 is the only game to use DRS.

Black Myth Wukong
Quality: Observed DRS range from sample play is 1296p to 1584p per Digital Foundry and recorded on this websites DF thread on the game and spends most of its time around 1440P ‘because that’s the number that came up a few times.’
Balanced: 1080P with no dynamic res
Performance: drops as low as 720 caps at 1080P

Here’s a breakdown of each title you named that actually uses DRS. I disagree that Cyberpunks IQ is remotely garbage by the way, it’s main issue is with ghosting on cars.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean this disrespectfully but within the context of the claims about DRS

I don’t much care if
you find these ranges with FSR to not be good enough.

I don’t much care if you find XYZ setting to be good enough on the base system.

Both of these are entirely subjective and moving the goalposts.

The conversation is on the prevalence of DRS, and generally speaking it is near ubiquitous for AAA games on consoles. I will gladly enjoy the free perks of these unpatched games and am happy to have them. :)

Cyberpunk 2077

“The quality presets chosen by CD ProjektRED for PS5 and Xbox Series X are basically identical. However, while both use FSR 2 upscaling to reconstruct to 1800p, the dynamic resolution ranges do differ: Xbox Series X's DRS range is 1152p to 1440p, while PS5's equivalent is 1008p to 1440p”

Silent Hill 2
cIn9dr1.png


Baulder’s Gate 3
Performance options By default, the game's Performance mode will be enabled on PS5 - this targets a 60fps output with dynamic resolution scaling. Disabling Performance mode will lock the game to 30fps and a native 1440p resolution.

Far Cry 6
On PlayStation 5, Far Cry 6 runs in a dynamic 4K resolution at 60FPS and this also applies to the Xbox Series X version. Meanwhile, the team has done a pretty great job optimizing the title as it manages to run in 1440p/60FPS on the Xbox Series S.

Space Marine 2
In quality mode on the premium consoles, expect a dynamic internal resolution from 1080p to 1440p, scaled to a 4K display with FSR2. Speed mode has a lower internal resolution in the push to 60fps, ranging from 720p to 1080p, with the same FSR2 upscale to 4K.

AC Valhalla
On the PS5, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla uses dynamic resolution scaling to maintain performance. In performance mode, the resolution typically ranges between 1440p and 1728p, while aiming for a consistent 60 FPS. It can drop slightly lower during demanding scenes but generally stays within this range. In quality mode, the resolution can go up to 4K (2160p) but locks the frame rate at 30 FPS

Dying Light 2
Is in fact the only game on this list that to my memory does not use Dynamic Resolution Scaling.






I think you have a very skewed perception of what the situation is, clearly. That said this is probably a good thing! You’re likely to be pleasantly surprised!

I’d also suggest you check out threads on this forum that tracks games with uncapped frame rates.

Ok i was underestimating the prevalence of drs then but you may be overestimating it to say that all games, patched or unpatched, will see an uplift in iq due to Pro. Surely DRS can't be more than 50% of games, right?
 
No it’s not, stop spouting subjective BS

There’s many reasons why a console, as a gaming centered device, is superior for consuming gaming and media in the entertainment center for someone who wants day 1 releases of Sony titles and consistently well optimized ports with none of the hassle factors associated with pc

Just because you don’t have the knowledge or wherewithal to understand doesn’t make it bullshit. A PC is objectively better. You might subjectively prefer a PS5, but all it is, is a locked down computer.

You’re also making strawman arguments. It’s like saying a Gameboy is better than a PS5 because someone only wants to play classic Pokémon games instead of any modern game.
 

PandaOk

Member
Ok i was underestimating the prevalence of drs then but you may be overestimating it to say that all games, patched or unpatched, will see an uplift in iq due to Pro. Surely DRS can't be more than 50% of games, right?
I think the point I was trying to settle on is that most high end games use DRS and as such will benefit from the Pro even in an unpatched state. I’m sure nearly all patched games will see some form of an uplift unless the developer explicitly limits the real resolution in every circumstance/mode by say swapping in PSSR and locking the resolutions at a level equal to or lower than before. Though in such a case it’s possible the reconstructed resolution will appear higher.

Every single unpatched game that use DRS (which the near majority of high end AAA games do use) will see an uplift.

BTW I came off a more harsh than intended in that post even with the qualifying statements, apologies.

I think it’s important to consider that the reported ranges we get are often the observed ranges from DF, the actual upper bounds could be higher in many circumstances and we may well max out the DRS window on many unpatched pro games.

I guess we’ll find out!
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You blamed Game Science for why you were wrong.
That's not doubling down, junior. I'm saying it would have been better to lock it at 30 rather than leaving it at an unstable 30-35ish.
You talked out of your ass and then simply put it on the developers for you being wrong.
I'm wrong for saying a locked a 30fps cap would have been better?
I told you boss fights weren't locked to 60 and then you show me a DF video saying the same and say oh but its only this one boss fight.
I showed you two bosses that barely had any drops and one huge boss with tons of fur who dropped when it got close to the camera. You used that as evidence and blatantly ignored the rest of their statements. NxGamer said it was mostly a locked 60 during gameplay. Alex said that "minus that wolf boss" it was a consistent 60.
It's one of the first bosses in the game and its not locked to 60, but you're again CONFIDENT that the rest of the game is locked to 60 perfectly and that the Pro could help push it to 60 across the board.
They played the first two chapters which have tons of bosses, including demanding ones such as Black Bear Guai, and still concluded that the game was mostly a locked 60. Yet you tell me that it's not because one boss is the exception. There are something like 30 bosses in the first two chapters. You seriously think that if the game frequently dropped massively during these battles, they wouldn't have mentioned it? It's mostly locked to 60, but there are exceptions as they mentioned such as the wolf boss and extreme cases which aren't the norm. You have an issue with their conclusion? Cool, find footage that goes against what they say.

No, the Quality mode.


Oliver in the article says the 60fps mode is the best.

Overall, the 60fps performance mode is the best way to play the game, but none of the three modes feels well configured for the PS5, and significant improvements could be made to each.

No you were saying it simply would not benefit even when you had no experience of the PS5 version at all:
No, I most definitely didn't. This is the rest of the post that for some reason, you ignored.

Balanced Mode is capped to 45, so the Pro won’t do much either. Will increase it by a few fps. Performance is capped to 60 but using Frame Generation. Not sure how the Pro will play with this one. Could override frame gen and lower latency.

It was my assumption that Quality Mode was locked to 30, but it's not and I later corrected that. I said it wouldn't do much and that it was doubtful that it would be transformative.
The subjective matter of it being "transformative" when that 30fps Quality mode will offer the higher fps benefits of Balanced Mode (your believed best mode?) at Quality settings is something you can keep arguing with any improvement no matter what it is.
It is an improvement. I'm saying that it's not transformative and I initially believed that GameScience had capped the Quality Mode to 30fps. They haven't. So the new Quality Mode using boost mode might become the best, but you'll still frequently fall outside the VRR window and the fps won't be consistent. I think I'd prefer the Performance Mode, assuming that frame generation gets completely overridden and we can get a mostly locked 60 with the proper input lag.

Edit: I just recalled that Chapter 6 is insanely GPU-intensive. It should benefit tremendously from the boost mode there too.
 
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Three

Gold Member
Anecdotal evidence in response to your anecdotal evidence. I thought that was obvious? And not US, Western Europe and South Africa.
Yes, my anecdotal evidence was making a point that it is anecdotal and I'm the one arguing that this MAU data cannot be used. You're the one arguing that it is correct and a conservative assumption.
Based on the rest of the sentence you didn't highlight. That's kind of how peak users and time zones work. If 40 million was my peak active user count at any single point during the day, and I serve a global audience, my daily user account across the globe will be significantly higher then that.
Ok? How are you using this data exactly though? It has little relevance in quantifying the hardware to 132-200M from MAU.
I'm mentioning Chinese internet cafes as they are likely the largest amount of users that would share computers. Considering the number of internet cafes that serve people. But that market is disappearing.
Quantitatively how much does it contribute globally? Even if you say it is very low why do you keep bringing it up when I'm not talking about Internet cafes at all?
I'm referring to both the paid and F2P market. Steam is roughly 80% of paid games on PC with the rest being GoG, Microsoft Store, Epic, and WeGame. Some of the most F2P popular games are separate from that, such as LoL, Fortnite, Minecraft, WoW, miHoYo games, and Tencent games. Playing all of those doesn't need Steam. So there is absolutely a significant gaming PC player base that is not logging onto Steam each month.
Steam MAU and concurrent is counted when you turn on your PC with steam installed.
I've listed daily peak player count, Steam survey, market share of Steam, extremely popular games outside of Steam, and shipped GPUs from Nvidia all pointing to the fact that 200 million number of Steam PC's is a credible ballpark figure and is likely underselling the PC market as a whole. You've posted feeling and anecdotal evidence.
You've listed irrelevant things that don't show that MAU can be converted to hardware sales reliably. You list irrelevant things like the collapse of Internet cafes just because of your own confirmation bias. I have not said anything regarding any assumption being correct data. As I said let's agree to disagree it's clear you want the data to be a certain way.
 

PandaOk

Member
Again if someone wants to say that an action game dropping to sub 30FPS (wildly) during majority of boss battles and key sequences is the best way to play, that’s for them to decide, but I’m not going to ever agree with that. Every mode is kind of complete trash atm, so the best one is hardly even bragging rights. Though at least during non boss battles it’s 30 locked mostly. He also said the perceptive lag in the performance mode is by far the worst, so to each their own.

The physical edition is coming out, maybe there will be another patch soon.

 
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Three

Gold Member
Oliver in the article says the 60fps mode is the best.
I'm sure I heard Rich say otherwise but 30fps mode is the best IMO since you get the visuals and the same or even lower latency than the 60fps framegen mode.
No, I most definitely didn't. This is the rest of the post that for some reason, you ignored.



It was my assumption that Quality Mode was locked to 30, but it's not and I later corrected that. I said it wouldn't do much and that it was doubtful that it would be transformative.

It is an improvement. I'm saying that it's not transformative and I initially believed that GameScience had capped the Quality Mode to 30fps. They haven't. So the new Quality Mode using boost mode might become the best, but you'll still frequently fall outside the VRR window and the fps won't be consistent. I think I'd prefer the Performance Mode, assuming that frame generation gets completely overridden and we can get a mostly locked 60 with the proper input lag.
This is all subjective though. One could argue that it is not "transformative" with a fully worked patch either. Your post was giving the impression that Wukong cannot benefit without a patch when it clearly can in ways games do without one. Higher resolutions in DRS, higher framerates in unstable or uncapped modes.
Edit: I just recalled that Chapter 6 is insanely GPU-intensive. It should benefit tremendously from the boost mode there too.
There is a very early section in the game where performance mode disables framegen:


This will likely see a good benefit too on PS5 Pro.
 
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