Support NeoGAF

[HeWhoWalks]

If a PlayStation ever allows users to download mods, trainers and emulators PC gaming will be superseded.

So basically never.

Nothing in here suggests PS5 Pro is aiming to “supersede” the PC.

Also, Unreal Tournament III on PS3 allowed you to download mods.

Team Andromeda

So, if they say this about the next Xbox, I expect your feelings to mimic what you said here.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Nothing in here suggests PS5 Pro is aiming to “supersede” the PC.

Also, Unreal Tournament III on PS3 allowed you to download mods.

Team Andromeda

So, if they say this about the next Xbox, I expect your feelings to mimic what you said here.

I've been all for consoles since 87 . But no console can match or beat a top end gaming PC for graphics or performance.

Yes , you get the odd game that is far worse like Batman but they are few and far between.

One of my best mates GFX card cost £1700 on its own and his PC obliterate my consoles and even the odd sutter isn't that bad . I do laugh at how long it takes his PC games to start up when playing for the 1st time to my console versions mind

 

[HeWhoWalks]

But no console can match or beat a top end gaming PC for graphics or performance.

Except that there have been exceptions to this and that’s all DF was saying. Read the article.

Nothing they said makes them “a joke”.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I mean we all know what's gonna happen in a couple of weeks

PS5 Pro will be shown to be by far the best value machine on the market and then PCMR will start doing comparisons with 4090/5090 with 4K DLAA to feel better about themselves

Too bad the GPU alone is 3x more expensive than a PS5 Pro

If you add CPU, RAM, storage (2 TB, PCIe 4.0), PSU (1000 watts) and a controller it will get to 5x the price

LOL

 

[clarky]

I mean we all know what's gonna happen in a couple of weeks

PS5 Pro will be shown to be by far the best value machine on the market and then PCMR will start doing comparisons with 4090/5090 with 4K DLAA to feel better about themselves

Too bad the GPU alone is 3x more expensive than a PS5 Pro

If you add CPU, RAM, storage (2 TB, PCIe 4.0), PSU (1000 watts) and a controller it will get to 5x the price

LOL

Lol no.

 

[Gaiff]

I mean we all know what's gonna happen in a couple of weeks

PS5 Pro will be shown to be by far the best value machine on the market and then PCMR will start doing comparisons with 4090/5090 with 4K DLAA to feel better about themselves

Too bad the GPU alone is 3x more expensive than a PS5 Pro

If you add CPU, RAM, storage (2 TB, PCIe 4.0), PSU (1000 watts) and a controller it will get to 5x the price

LOL

Doesn’t even beat DLSS and you think people will compare it to DLAA?

I swear, the Pro has killed off what precious little brain cells some of you had left. This applies to a bunch of PC gamers as well.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Doesn’t even beat DLSS and you think people will compare it to DLAA?

Nah, the difference with DLSS will be meaningless....

They will have to up the stakes to 4K DLAA

 

[Astray]

I see my old post still stands huh.

Dude some of those suggested builds constitute hate crimes against PC Gaming.

I'm seeing idiots suggesting discontinued chipsets, shitty mobos that may not even have wifi, making builds with no ram, recommending pre-builts with integrated graphics, the absolute desperation to will this thing into failure is driving the internet gaming communities completely insane.

In 4 or so years, tons of people who got a "console killer build" based on these retarded recommendations are going to flock to consoles again (making that first build a last build) and PCMR types will act surprised just like they did at the start of this gen.

 

[MikeM]

I mean we all know what's gonna happen in a couple of weeks

PS5 Pro will be shown to be by far the best value machine on the market and then PCMR will start doing comparisons with 4090/5090 with 4K DLAA to feel better about themselves

Too bad the GPU alone is 3x more expensive than a PS5 Pro

If you add CPU, RAM, storage (2 TB, PCIe 4.0), PSU (1000 watts) and a controller it will get to 5x the price

LOL

Not sure if serious…

PS5 Pro is definitely going to be a fantastic gaming box and by far the best console experience. Whether its the best value is completely up to the user making the purchase as value can be very subjective.

 

[Bojji]

I mean we all know what's gonna happen in a couple of weeks

PS5 Pro will be shown to be by far the best value machine on the market and then PCMR will start doing comparisons with 4090/5090 with 4K DLAA to feel better about themselves

Too bad the GPU alone is 3x more expensive than a PS5 Pro

If you add CPU, RAM, storage (2 TB, PCIe 4.0), PSU (1000 watts) and a controller it will get to 5x the price

LOL

Platform wars are serious business.

 

[jm89]

I mean we all know what's gonna happen in a couple of weeks

PS5 Pro will be shown to be by far the best value machine on the market and then PCMR will start doing comparisons with 4090/5090 with 4K DLAA to feel better about themselves

Too bad the GPU alone is 3x more expensive than a PS5 Pro

If you add CPU, RAM, storage (2 TB, PCIe 4.0), PSU (1000 watts) and a controller it will get to 5x the price

LOL

 

[Zathalus]

I see my old post still stands huh.

I think you missed the point why cheap PC builds were even brought up. It’s not to recommend a compromised PC build over a Pro, but to point out how silly it is to think the Pro is better value compared to PC vs how the base PS5 stacks up.

 

[Bojji]

I think you missed the point why cheap PC builds were even brought up. It’s not to recommend a compromised PC build over a Pro, but to point out how silly it is to think the Pro is better value compared to PC vs how the base PS5 stacks up.

Yeah in Europe whole PC with 4070 is less than 20% more than pro - thanks to ridiculous 800 euro price.

 

[Astray]

I think you missed the point why cheap PC builds were even brought up. It’s not to recommend a compromised PC build over a Pro, but to point out how silly it is to think the Pro is better value compared to PC vs how the base PS5 stacks up.

Value is subjective because it depends on your personal usage and what you value most.

For example: I personally don't play multi-player games at all, so when someone tells me that Steam online play is free compared to consoles, that doesn't impact my usage and thus would not be considered by me if I was weighing up a purchase one way or another.

Being able to buy legit steam keys for the best price possible at any given point? THAT I care about and is why I find a lot of my 3rd party games purchases happen on my PC instead of my PS5 or Switch.

Apply that mode of thinking to making a new PC build, you want that build recommendation to actually deliver maximum value to you in the long-term, not just be there to replace your console today and then underperforming or costing too much to upgrade only a few years into the future.

I think that new PC users deserve better recommendations from seasoned PC users that are less focused on trying to combat consoles and more focused on providing the best long-term experience possible to said new PC user.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Except that there have been exceptions to this and that’s all DF was saying. Read the article.

Nothing they said makes them “a joke”.

There's always exceptions. But most people can work out the Master Race have it the best for gaming graphics and performance, not that I think it's fair or right to compare a console to a PC.

And I do find DF a joke these days . Still IGN owns then now .So I shouldn't expect any better

 

[brenobnfm]

Not sure if you're just taking the piss, but this is so very, very wrong.
Elden Ring is silksmooth on PC if you add two very simple mods.

60 fps the definite version?
Try 120 with buttersmooth performance.

I played ER at a friends place on his ps5 after playing it for about 60 hours on my PC. It felt like a slug in comparison.
Same with Armored Core 6.

I played at 165 fps on my PC, got all the achievements and DLC, i played more than enough. The fact that the port is broken to the core is already documented, nothing to do with opinion, maybe you're not sensible to stutter and if your PC is strong enough it can mitigate, but the frame pacing is still crap, PS5 Pro version is a lock for being the definitive version of the game.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

There's always exceptions. But most people can work out the Master Race have it the best for gaming graphics and performance, not that I think it's fair or right to compare a console to a PC.

And I do find DF a joke these days . Still IGN owns then now .So I shouldn't expect any better

It's totally fair, because the console in this case clearly holds its own.

Like I said, DF did/said nothing wrong. Some Pro games may not have the issues of their PC counterparts and it will offer a nice alternative in those instances.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Value is subjective because it depends on your personal usage and what you value most.

For example: I personally don't play multi-player games at all, so when someone tells me that Steam online play is free compared to consoles, that doesn't impact my usage and thus would not be considered by me if I was weighing up a purchase one way or another.

Being able to buy legit steam keys for the best price possible at any given point? THAT I care about and is why I find a lot of my 3rd party games purchases happen on my PC instead of my PS5 or Switch.

Apply that mode of thinking to making a new PC build, you want that build recommendation to actually deliver maximum value to you in the long-term, not just be there to replace your console today and then underperforming or costing too much to upgrade only a few years into the future.

I think that new PC users deserve better recommendations from seasoned PC users that are less focused on trying to combat consoles and more focused on providing the best long-term experience possible to said new PC user.

Problem with your logic is that you're making a lot of assumptions about what a "long-term experience" actually means.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Whether its the best value is completely up to the user making the purchase as value can be very subjective.

Hardware performance per dollar is not subjective...

You compare the IQ/performance level with the price of the hardware the same games run on

 

[Zathalus]

Value is subjective because it depends on your personal usage and what you value most.

For example: I personally don't play multi-player games at all, so when someone tells me that Steam online play is free compared to consoles, that doesn't impact my usage and thus would not be considered by me if I was weighing up a purchase one way or another.

Being able to buy legit steam keys for the best price possible at any given point? THAT I care about and is why I find a lot of my 3rd party games purchases happen on my PC instead of my PS5 or Switch.

Apply that mode of thinking to making a new PC build, you want that build recommendation to actually deliver maximum value to you in the long-term, not just be there to replace your console today and then underperforming or costing too much to upgrade only a few years into the future.

I think that new PC users deserve better recommendations from seasoned PC users that are less focused on trying to combat consoles and more focused on providing the best long-term experience possible to said new PC user.

I agree with all of that, I just don’t think that the Pro offers any new paradigm in value that PC gamers need to justify against, as the first post that started this whole pc comparison implied. The Pro is a great machine but it’s not going to lead to any PC gamers questioning value. The digital PS5 was $400 and a non compromised budget PC at its launch was probably around $1200 or so. Today that PC price is roughly the same but the Pro is $700.

The Pro still offers better price to performance, but it is worse in that regard vs the digital PS5 was at launch, because at $400 it was an absolute steal.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Hardware performance per dollar is not subjective...

You compare the IQ/performance level with the price of the hardware the same games run on

It totally is as PC vs Console have different use case scenarios. A lot of people i know that got gaming PCs often had other uses in mind for it besides gaming.

When you want a general use computer for other tasks, comparisons become |Gaming PC| vs |Console + non-gaming PC| and suddenly the price factor starts favoring a Gaming PC, especially if one does not care about the latest graphical tech.

 

[Loboxxx]

It is that many people think that the price of PS5pro can cause many people to move to PC to play, but if the machine delivers what it promises and gives us the quality of a mid / high end PC and 60fps, maybe what you do is that many people buy the console, instead of complicating your life mounted a PC happens just to play.

 

[MisterXDTV]

It totally is as PC vs Console have different use case scenarios.

???

When you run the same games, it's the same scenario...

This notion that people buy $3000 PC to work with Excel and watch YouTube is bullshit

A Raspberry Pi can do that

GAMING PCs are bought for gaming. Anything else is a bonus....

 

[Guilty_AI]

???

When you run the same games, it's the same scenario...

This notion that people buy $3000 PC to work with Excel and watch YouTube is bullshit

A Raspberry Pi can do that

GAMING PCs are bought for gaming. Anything else is a bonus....

No, they buy $800 PCs to game AND work with excel, coding, modeling, video editing, writing, etc.

A raspberry Pi certainly can't do all that in a comfortable manner.

 

[Moridianae]

I think a lot of the contention or "unease" some folks on PC may be feeling is because, for the longest time, the gap of what you could do on a PC versus a console was much, much wider in all years past.

I've long said I think we've underestimated just how much AI-based performance enhancements could bolster gaming to heights previously thought unattainable, especially on console and we're seeing it with PSSR.

That's not to say PC won't always have its own place for the absolute high-end, but iterations in this type of technology(especially PS6) will result in even a closed system that punches pretty hard with many graphics cards.


This kind of reminds me of the old days(arguably without the debates) of how Arcade games always were so much more beyond their home console counterparts.

It wasn't until the Dreamcast days imo that you began to see home ports that were 100% identical or even far improved(Soul Calibur).


The gap just narrowed, which I think has taken some folks aback. But thats okay...PC tech will always exceed, it just may not exceed by the margins it once did.

 

[Gaiff]

I think a lot of the contention or "unease" some folks on PC may be feeling is because, for the longest time, the gap of what you could do on a PC versus a console was much, much wider in all years past.

No. The thread was started by a console gamer. There’s no "unease". Nothing will change on the PC side and as Zathalus pointed out (and many of us did too), the price gap between the Pro and a PC is much narrower than it was between the old PS5 and a PC at the time.

You’re getting a machine with a GPU upgrade presumably still below an RTX 3080 and AI upscaling similar to DLSS and a bunch of warriors have lost their minds because they’re getting stuff that’s been on PC for 4-6 years.

PS: All PC GPUs are also about to get knocked down a tier, so the price gap will shrink even further in the next few months.

The Pro does nothing for PC gamers, just like the upcoming RTX 5060 will do nothing for console gamers.

 

[MisterXDTV]

No, they buy $800 PCs to game AND work with excel, coding, modeling, video editing, writing, etc.

A raspberry Pi certainly can't do all that in a comfortable manner.

Actually most professionals buy a Macs/iPads Pro that have nothing to do with gaming at all

But hey let's pretend that people with a PC with a 4090 spent all that money just for video editing and writing

 

[Gaiff]

Actually most professionals buy a Macs/iPads that have nothing to do with gaming at all

But hey let's pretend that people with a PC with a 4090 spent all that money just for video editing and writing

That’s complete and utter rubbish. I work for an IT consulting firm and only one major client has Macs for pro graphics/video work. PCs are still much more common.

And yes, a 4090 with its 24GB of VRAM is an absolute beast for video editing that can quickly exceed 16GB with raw video files. Hell, we recommend 3090s over 4080s due the VRAM.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think a lot of the contention or "unease" some folks on PC may be feeling is because, for the longest time, the gap of what you could do on a PC versus a console was much, much wider in all years past.

I've long said I think we've underestimated just how much AI-based performance enhancements could bolster gaming to heights previously thought unattainable, especially on console and we're seeing it with PSSR.

That's not to say PC won't always have its own place for the absolute high-end, but iterations in this type of technology(especially PS6) will result in even a closed system that punches pretty hard with many graphics cards.


This kind of reminds me of the old days(arguably without the debates) of how Arcade games always were so much more beyond their home console counterparts.

It wasn't until the Dreamcast days imo that you began to see home ports that were 100% identical or even far improved(Soul Calibur).


The gap just narrowed, which I think has taken some folks aback. But thats okay...PC tech will always exceed, it just may not exceed by the margins it once did.

Consoles tend to be behind PC but only the cutting edge of PC. Most PC gamers are actually significantly behind console gaming...

I've been thinking about arcade a lot for the exact same reasons as you.

The dynamic between PS5 Pro and other gaming devices is I feel the most extreme we've ever seen in gaming. You can still get marginal better performance on PC but at significant costs. Arcades were well ahead of consoles running the same architecture for years.

You could get M2 NVME on PC while the previous generations were still launching with SATA drives. It was wild.
PS4 Pro didn't even launch with a 4K bluray player.
AI Upscaling came out before the PS5 and XBS launched, but not via AMD

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That’s complete and utter rubbish. I work for an IT consulting firm and only one major client has Macs for pro graphics/video work. PCs are still much more common.

And yes, a 4090 with its 24GB of VRAM is an absolute beast for video editing that can quickly exceed 16GB with raw video files. Hell, we recommend 3090s over 4080s due the VRAM.

I don't know anyone who does photo or video editing professionally on a PC...

 

[Guilty_AI]

Actually most professionals buy a Macs/iPads Pro that have nothing to do with gaming at all

But hey let's pretend that people with a PC with a 4090 spent all that money just for video editing and writing

>discussing value proposition factor
>brings up Macs

 

[PandaOk]

Well, I get it the hype. But wasn't this just discussed in the other thread?

I do love him citing expense out of knee jerk desperation and subsequently being cornered into saying the cost of a decent PC gaming rig is over twice as expensive (1500 dollars) or more (all by his own admission).

 

[MisterXDTV]

I don't know anyone who does photo or video editing professionally on a PC...

Wait, are you trying to tell me, you don't need a 4090 to do video editing??

Really???

 

[Loboxxx]

No, they buy $800 PCs to game AND work with excel, coding, modeling, video editing, writing, etc.

A raspberry Pi certainly can't do all that in a comfortable manner.

I work on the PC 8 hours a day and play on the console in my free time. I hate the concept of working and playing on the PC and I think I'm not the only one.

 

[jm89]

I work on the PC 8 hours a day and play on the console in my free time. I hate the concept of working and playing on the PC and I think I'm not the only one.

You definitely aren't.

We live in an age were people don't want desktop PCs, we even have people who don't even want a laptop and get by with tablets.

The value proposition of a gaming pc, or even just an off the shelf desktop isn't there for the many.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't know anyone who does photo or video editing professionally on a PC...

The guys at Gamers Nexus do their video editing on 3090s/4090s, as do many other professionals. I also didn’t mention photo, I said graphics. Apps such as Blender have Optix optimizations for NVIDIA GPUs. When you get into CAD modeling, Unreal Engine, and demanding graphics applications, high-end cards are still the go-to choice.

For your shitty photo editing, sure, a Mac can work, but why would you by a $2500 Mac when a $1500 PC performs the same (please don’t start with Adobe is optimized for Mac)? Bottom line is, you can’t talk about value and bring up Macs.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I work on the PC 8 hours a day and play on the console in my free time. I hate the concept of working and playing on the PC and I think I'm not the only one.

And i know at least 10 people who work and game on their PC. People have different habits and all i did was point out one example of when a gaming PC may have better value proposition than a console.

 

[Bojji]

Consoles tend to be behind PC but only the cutting edge of PC. Most PC gamers are actually significantly behind console gaming...

I've been thinking about arcade a lot for the exact same reasons as you.

The dynamic between PS5 Pro and other gaming devices is I feel the most extreme we've ever seen in gaming. You can still get marginal better performance on PC but at significant costs. Arcades were well ahead of consoles running the same architecture for years.

You could get M2 NVME on PC while the previous generations were still launching with SATA drives. It was wild.
PS4 Pro didn't even launch with a 4K bluray player.
AI Upscaling came out before the PS5 and XBS launched, but not via AMD

Marginally better? You mean 2x or 3x better fps or/and settings not available in console version?

Ratchet and clank for example had nice pssr reconstruction but it's frame rate limited and lacks higher settings from PC version plus rtao and rt shadows (not to mention much higher quality rt reflections).

Difference between pc and consoles is the same as always but price difference is much closer this time for comparable experience.

 

[Hrk69]

Actually most professionals buy a Macs/iPads Pro that have nothing to do with gaming at all

This isn't 2001

Learn some new buzzwords

 

[PandaOk]

PC gamers have DLSS which is a proven, highly effective technology so I have no idea what they are on about

DLSS isn’t really relevant in the discussion that’s why. Not when you look at the most used graphics cards, the level of requirements, and the issues with PC ports these days.

Some people, egged on by Phill Spencer’s marching orders, tried the ‘just spend a lot more money and buy/upgrade your PC’ narrative.

But the reality is that just maybe ‘buy a PS5/Pro’ is more of a winner.

Not like you can’t comfortably play 95% of actual PC exclusives on ancient hardware anyway. If you are really so eager to play console ports I mean.

 

[MisterXDTV]

You definitely aren't.

We live in an age were people don't want desktop PCs, we even have people who don't even want a laptop and get by with tablets.

The value proposition of a gaming pc, or even just an off the shelf desktop isn't there for the many.

I'm still using my desktop from 9 years ago and I can just do anything normal people want to do with PCs except for high performance gaming obviously.

You are right: most people today don't even NEED a PC at home....

They use their smartphones/tablets/Smart TVs for everything they used to do on PC like 20 years ago

 

[Gaiff]

This isn't 2001

Learn some new buzzwords

This was never true at any point in history. Macs are great and easy to use, but they are expensive. Pros accustomed to using Macs will prefer them. Pros accustomed to using Windows will prefer Windows. It is absolute nonsense that no one into professional graphics and video work uses Windows. Even for photos, plenty use Windows.

 

[MisterXDTV]

This isn't 2001

Learn some new buzzwords

Sure, Steam users on Mac are a whooping 1.29%

LOL

Hey Linux an incredible 1.87%

Stunning numbers

AHAHAHAH

 

[Hrk69]

Sure, Steam users on Mac are a whooping 1.29%

LOL

Hey Linux an incredible 1.87%

AHAHAHAH

Most professionals use Android Smartphones if you go by that logic

 

[digdug2]

It's totally fair, because the console in this case clearly holds its own.

Like I said, DF did/said nothing wrong. Some Pro games may not have the issues of their PC counterparts and it will offer a nice alternative in those instances.

Exactly this. At the end of the day, play on your preferred platform(s) of choice.

If you have the money, build a good PC and buy all the consoles. Then you don't have to worry about whether or not you're playing the best version of each game. The best way to play some games might be on PS5 Pro, some may run better on XSX, some on PC, and so forth. Do what your bank account can afford.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Most professionals use Android Smartphones if you go by that logic

You are just grasping at straws here:

Windows has 97% of Steam users

And PCMR taught me that Gaming = Steam

Now you are trying to tell me that people buy Macs to play games

 

[TintoConCasera]

Nice and cozy platform warring Sunday thread.

 

[Loboxxx]

And i know at least 10 people who work and game on their PC. People have different habits and all i did was point out one example of when a gaming PC may have better value proposition than a console.

I think that's perfect, the world is very big.

The thing is that in all, all generations, console users have a stage in which we have to defend ourselves from PC sellers, that consoles are totally valid devices for playing and more than enough for a vast majority. Not all of us edit FX for Light&Magic or edit Dua Lipa's albums at home, some of us with a small laptop to work and a decent console to play have more than enough, even though we know without any doubt that we would play better on a PC with a 4090 and 750W of pure power.

To enjoy my hobby, which is gaming, I prefer to buy a PS5pro than a PC with a 4070, even though I can't use Teams or send emails with it.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think that's perfect, the world is very big.

The thing is that in all, all generations, console users have a stage in which we have to defend ourselves from PC sellers, that consoles are totally valid devices for playing and more than enough for a vast majority. Not all of us edit FX for Light&Magic or edit Dua Lipa's albums at home, some of us with a small laptop to work and a decent console to play have more than enough, even though we know without any doubt that we would play better on a PC with a 4090 and 750W of pure power.

To enjoy my hobby, which is gaming, I prefer to buy a PS5pro than a PC with a 4070, even though I can't use Teams or send emails with it.

 

[digdug2]

I think that's perfect, the world is very big.

The thing is that in all, all generations, console users have a stage in which we have to defend ourselves from PC sellers, that consoles are totally valid devices for playing and more than enough for a vast majority. Not all of us edit FX for Light&Magic or edit Dua Lipa's albums at home, some of us with a small laptop to work and a decent console to play have more than enough, even though we know without any doubt that we would play better on a PC with a 4090 and 750W of pure power.

To enjoy my hobby, which is gaming, I prefer to buy a PS5pro than a PC with a 4070, even though I can't use Teams or send emails with it.

And this is a perfectly valid opinion, even if others disagree. It just sucks that on a site filled with video game enthusiasts that you have to explain exactly why you feel this way, and dickheads like rodrigolfp will still shit on you and call you names.