Support NeoGAF

[OmegaZero]

I'm having an argument with my friend over Dante, he seems to think that he's going to be completely worthless after these changes but I insist that he's overreacting. Any Dante mains in here want to weigh in on how they think he'll fare post-patch?

They nerfed the ghetto empty cancel, and buffed his abilty to hit people by allowing him to turn around mid-combo.

Empty cancel seems to still be in, so I can still get stylish AP bursts, but I just won't be able to kill someone mid-combo with a Level 1.
Level 2 kill confirm seems to still be in, and the reduced AP will make it easier for me to build enough meter for it,

Jump-cancelable up square....the combo possibilities are nice, but I'll have to try it before I come to a solid conclusion.

Overall, he was buffed, especially for 1v1 situations.

 

[MaverickHunterAsh]

Yeah, I'm really excited about Dante's overall buffs. Being able to turn around mid-combo will make him a lot less vulnerable, especially in 1v1 situations.

 

[KevinCow]

So what does this mean?

Raiden
--- Level 1 Super - Removed stick velocity during the Super and increased recovery by 8 frames

What is stick velocity? And increased recovery means it takes longer and is therefore more punishable, right?

Despite his buffs, it would be nice to know that his level 1 is at least less bullshit.

 

[TheMink]

So what does this mean?



What is stick velocity? And increased recovery means it takes longer and is therefore more punishable, right?

Despite his buffs, it would be nice to know that his level 1 is at least less bullshit.

You could move him around during his super before

And yes

 

[OmegaZero]

The thing that excites me about that is now Raiden can't use a throw to knock you down and then tech chase you with his Level 1. It's much more risky for him to just throw it out now.

 

[SSReborn]

I'm really not seeing how Raiden got a buff there is only like 2 positive changes to Raiden and only one of them is a "buff"

"Level 2 Super - Air Square and Air Triangle attacks are no longer block-able"

That one is more of a fix because you honestly shouldn't be able to block something from a super.

"Down Throw now causes a bounce reaction, allowing combo follow-ups"

They gave him one more option but I don't think that enough to call it a buff. They made each of his other options more punishable on block and I'm certain that most Raiden players would probably prefer him pre-patch. Now these players can't spam moves and if they get an opening you can say it was due to them out playing you and not cheapness.

 

[JStein0222]

I don't know if I'm more excited for the DLC or the patch haha expecting big things

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I always like patches that change things up so I'm more excited for that.

 

[SSReborn]

I don't know if I'm more excited for the DLC or the patch haha expecting big things

One thing I like about this Patch dropping on the same day as the DLC means that if I go online I'm probably not going to only see Zeus and Isaac players. Everyone is probably going to stick to their mains so that they can get used to some of the new changes.

 

[JStein0222]

One thing I like about this Patch dropping on the same day as the DLC means that if I go online I'm probably not going to only see Zeus and Isaac players. Everyone is probably going to stick to their mains so that they can get used to some of the new changes.

I have a show opening the night all this stuff is going to drop so I won't be able to take advantage of the "Play as Zeus before the casuals realize there's a new DLC character and hear them freak out over headset" gag. Shame, I'm going to be anxiously awaiting what I'm calling SUPER SPIKE

 

[TheMink]

I'm really not seeing how Raiden got a buff there is only like 2 positive changes to Raiden and only one of them is a "buff"

"Level 2 Super - Air Square and Air Triangle attacks are no longer block-able"

That one is more of a fix because you honestly shouldn't be able to block something from a super.

"Down Throw now causes a bounce reaction, allowing combo follow-ups"

They gave him one more option but I don't think that enough to call it a buff. They made each of his other options more punishable on block and I'm certain that most Raiden players would probably prefer him pre-patch. Now these players can't spam moves and if they get an opening you can say it was due to them out playing you and not cheapness.

Im fully with you.

But as far as people in this thread are concerned he should only be able to attack with his feet apperently for it to be a proper nerf lol

Not saying it was enough of nerf necessarily, but calling what they did to Kratos and Raiden a "buff" is a bit of a stretch.

Honestly though, i hates FP and Sly way more than Kratos and Raiden so im good.

 

[KevinCow]

The Isaac announcement inspired me to finally finish Dead Space 2.

That was a really good game. I'm more excited to play as him now.

I'll probably wind up playing Zeus, though. The buffs to Sir Dan and Big Daddy sound pretty lame, and Zeus looks really good.

 

[msdstc]

So what are the new mechanics going to do to good coles tether-confirm.

 

[LightofRohan]

I'm really not seeing how Raiden got a buff there is only like 2 positive changes to Raiden and only one of them is a "buff"

"Level 2 Super - Air Square and Air Triangle attacks are no longer block-able"

That one is more of a fix because you honestly shouldn't be able to block something from a super.

"Down Throw now causes a bounce reaction, allowing combo follow-ups"

They gave him one more option but I don't think that enough to call it a buff. They made each of his other options more punishable on block and I'm certain that most Raiden players would probably prefer him pre-patch. Now these players can't spam moves and if they get an opening you can say it was due to them out playing you and not cheapness.

Well I was assuming they'd nerf him to hell (which he deserves). Like, Raiden - All Sword moves AP gain reduced by 85% and Raiden can no longer jump or block. Anything else to me is a buff

 

[SmithnCo]

Well I was assuming they'd nerf him to hell (which he deserves). Like, Raiden - All Sword moves AP gain reduced by 85% and Raiden can no longer jump or block. Anything else to me is a buff

They should subtly nerf Raiden/Kratos by making you lose belt points when you select them.

 

[ZodR_ARG]

So what are the new mechanics going to do to good coles tether-confirm.

what tether confirm?? :O

 

[Aceun]

They should subtly nerf Raiden/Kratos by making you lose belt points when you select them.

 

[SSReborn]

Well I was assuming they'd nerf him to hell (which he deserves). Like, Raiden - All Sword moves AP gain reduced by 85% and Raiden can no longer jump or block. Anything else to me is a buff

Lol hahaha

 

[msdstc]

what tether confirm?? :O

He tethers you, then freezes you then lvl 1.

 

[OmegaZero]

So what are the new mechanics going to do to good coles tether-confirm.

All of Good Cole's Tether confirms look like they are shut down, since they extended the amount of time it takes before you can super after you land from an air attack.

He could still land on the ground and freeze you, sure, but that confirm is MUCH harder to do then Ice Missle in midair or Ice Barrier.
EDIT: Speaking as a Good Cole main of course.

 

[KevinCow]

Well I was assuming they'd nerf him to hell (which he deserves). Like, Raiden - All Sword moves AP gain reduced by 85% and Raiden can no longer jump or block. Anything else to me is a buff

Well that might have been a little extreme (only a little, though), but after the crazy nerf that Sackboy got, and with how big Drake and Sly's nerfs look, I'm amazed at how little they're doing to Raiden and Kratos.

 

[TimeEffect]

Real excited to play as new and improved Big Daddy.

I love my Big Daddy and Sweet Tooth, wish I could play as both at once.

Sweet Tooth is my most favourite character and he too got a good buff.

Big D and Sweet Tea <3

 

[OmegaZero]

What gets me is that they nerfed Dante's counter, but not Raiden's. They didn't even buff Heihachi's.
Raiden still has his Counter into Level 1, I'm assuming.

 

[Spinluck]

The patch will probably get me to play again, glad they've been listening.

I can't wait to see which characters all the cowards using the OP ones will try to move to now.

I wonder if this will really even out the playing ground just a bit.

 

[Zen]

What gets me is that they nerfed Dante's counter, but not Raiden's. They didn't even buff Heihachi's.
Raiden still has his Counter into Level 1, I'm assuming.

As a Radec I couldn't care less about Raiden's counter since he's rarely in range to avail himself.

I'm glad to see some slight moves away from confirms, especially FPrincess not having her air swordman confirm. The types of strategies where one move becomes your entire strategy is just boring. Similar to Nariko just jumping and using her air disc all game.

Also Drake getting nerfed to hell and Sly's counter being nerfed - hell yes.

 

[Camjo-Z]

The patch will probably get me to play again, glad they've been listening.

I can't wait to see which characters all the cowards using the OP ones will try to move to now.

I wonder if this will really even out the playing ground just a bit.

The only top tier character that really got declawed was Drake, Sly's nerf was decent but it remains to be seen whether that will be enough to balance him. I suspect Evil Cole will still be used a lot and Kratos and Raiden were given slaps on the wrist (heck Raiden even got a BUFF) so expect to still see them in every match.

 

[whitehawk]

I can't believe they didn't buff Emmet Graves level 2 super. It's such a terrible super. It's similar to Kratos level 2, but there's plenty of time for people to roll out of the way because the hit box is so damn small.

 

[OmegaZero]

Speaking of Raiden's confirms, AFAIK, he only has a few left:
-Forward Square -> Level 1
-Circle -> Level 1
-Triangle -> Square -> Level 1

Anything I missed?

As a Radec I couldn't care less about Raiden's counter since he's rarely in range to avail himself.

I'm more of a close range Radec (I don't main him, but I've been using him recently). :b
As a Dante main, I'm assuming that I'll have to deal with the counter more often since it's one of the few ways Raiden can confirm now.

 

[SmithnCo]

I can't believe they didn't buff Emmet Graves level 2 super. It's such a terrible super. It's similar to Kratos level 2, but there's plenty of time for people to roll out of the way because the hit box is so damn small.

Yeah, making it cost slightly less AP really doesn't help because it's a pretty bad super anyway. Might as well go for the 3 and get way more kills.

 

[Byronic Hero]

I can't believe they didn't buff Emmet Graves level 2 super. It's such a terrible super. It's similar to Kratos level 2, but there's plenty of time for people to roll out of the way because the hit box is so damn small.

Emmet? Try Jak's. At least Emmet's Lvl 2 has a hit confirm. Jak's is slow, easy to dodge, and has a pitiful range for a lvl 2.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

He tethers you, then freezes you then lvl 1.

Since tether is air only I'm guessing he freezes in air so both would cause the penalty. He wouldn't be able to super before the short freeze wear off.

 

[whitehawk]

Yeah, making it cost slightly less AP really doesn't help because it's a pretty bad super anyway. Might as well go for the 3 and get way more kills.

Pretty much. There's also a few other things they need to buff with him.

- Every droppable object should do damge
- Damage range for droppable objects should be bigger
- Turret should have more health
- Forward square attack needs to happen faster.

 

[SmithnCo]

Pretty much. There's also a few other things they need to buff with him.

- Every droppable object should do damge
- Damage range for droppable objects should be bigger
- Turret should have more health
- Forward square attack needs to happen faster.

I agree with all, except forward square is a confirm and I don't think they'd buff an obvious confirm, going by the recent patch notes.

As for turret, I'd take it having more health over it giving less AP as well. It needs to be able to get at least a couple shots off, right now it can easily be destroyed with a single attack which isn't worth the long spawn animation a lot of the time. Either way it isn't even great bait if they get a bunch of AP off it as well.

 

[OmegaZero]

Pretty much. There's also a few other things they need to buff with him.

- Every droppable object should do damge
- Damage range for droppable objects should be bigger
- Turret should have more health
- Forward square attack needs to happen faster.

Forward square is fine. You can use it to catch wake-up rolls for an easy kill.

 

[TheMink]

What gets me is that they nerfed Dante's counter, but not Raiden's. They didn't even buff Heihachi's.
Raiden still has his Counter into Level 1, I'm assuming.

I thought about this too, very curious, Raidens is easily the best counter in the game. It lasts a long time and it crumples on contact. Completely unecessary, seeing as how both Dante and Heihachi just cause butt drop and dont allow hit confirms.

While Kratos ironically has the least useful counter in the game

 

[Vysetron]

Nerfs to some things that needed them, and some Dan buffs?

Neat.

 

[Step]

Forward square is fine. You can use it to catch wake-up rolls for an easy kill.

And what do you think about his Down square move, on ground I find it so slow and useless, and on air it has to much start up but the splash damage and range is pretty good.

 

[OmegaZero]

I thought about this too, very curious, Raidens is easily the best counter in the game. It lasts a long time and it crumples on contact. Completely unecessary, seeing as how both Dante and Heihachi just cause butt drop and dont allow hit confirms.

While Kratos ironically has the least useful counter in the game

True in close range, but at medium distance he can counter projectiles for a kill confirm.
Which is like the only not-so-predictable level 1 confirm he has. :b

And what do you think about his Down square move, on ground I find it so slow and useless, and on air it has to much start up but the splash damage and range is pretty good.

I use short-hopped down squares to ground someone again if they delay getting up. I mainly use the aerial version to clear out space around my drops, but overall I don't use it as much as midair forward square. It's way too predictable, and if someone blocks it they get a free counterattack.
I've only used it on the ground by accident. :b

 

[TheMink]

True in close range, but at medium distance he can counter projectiles for a kill confirm.
Which is like the only not-so-predictable level 1 confirm he has. :b



I use short-hopped down squares to ground someone again if they delay getting up. I mainly use the aerial version to clear out space around my drops, but overall I don't use it as much as midair forward square. It's way too predictable, and if someone blocks it they get a free counterattack.
I've only used it on the ground by accident. :b

Yeah that mid range counter is weird.

 

[OwlyKnees]

Did the ScraftyCup ever go ahead? Or is it still planned?

I know it's not anyone's favourite, but maybe some sort of free-for-all tournament would be easier to arrange.

 

[TheMink]

I think we just sorta mutually agreed to wait for the patch

 

[Vysetron]

I think we just sorta mutually agreed to wait for the patch

Yeah, what he said. Looking forward to it, by the way!

 

[whitehawk]

I can't stand players with no strategy in their gameplay. I'm playing stock limited, and there are 3 of us with 1 life each. The tekken guy is nearing his level 3, and we are going to die if we don't team up on him and keep grabbing him. So what does the other guy do? Attack me!

 

[TheMink]

Yeah, what he said. Looking forward to it, by the way!

Me too! ^_^

 

[Step]

I can't stand players with no strategy in their gameplay. I'm playing stock limited, and there are 3 of us with 1 life each. The tekken guy is nearing his level 3, and we are going to die if we don't team up on him and keep grabbing him. So what does the other guy do? Attack me!

with no common sense, FFA doesn't mean go ape mode attacking everything that's in front of you without knowing wha's going on on the match.

I hate when I grab the crap out of a close lv 3 and then someone else goes and give him free hits and AP back.

 

[JStein0222]

Me too! ^_^

*cracks knuckles*
Oh, we're looking forward to it alright

 

[msdstc]

I think we just sorta mutually agreed to wait for the patch

Could I get in on it still?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I think Kat probably won't be effected by the patch in regard to super after air attack. Ok she does the air slant kick, lands and throws a pot or does some small 2 hit combo. That has to be more than 12 frames. Or do fighting games go by time instead of actual frames when describing frames. 60fps game.

It will probably only effect people like Fat Princess that has one hit then land with super asap. Spike with the air shock ball is another. Just got finished playing a maraton 1v1 with Kat again. Non of her setups today were something that would be effected, unless her throw count as being in the air (she hovers after all).

 

[TheMink]

Could I get in on it still?

I dont see why not, ask scrafty.

 

[TheMink]

I think Kat probably won't be effected by the patch in regard to super after air attack. Ok she does the air slant kick, lands and throws a pot or does some small 2 hit combo. That has to be more than 12 frames. Or do fighting games go by time instead of actual frames when describing frames. 60fps game.

It will probably only effect people like Fat Princess that has one hit then land with super asap. Spike with the air shock ball is another. Just got finished playing a maraton 1v1 with Kat again. Non of her setups today were something that would be effected, unless her throw count as being in the air (she hovers after all).

Im confused, what exactly are you saying?

If you throw the pot or do a 2 hit combo what is that going to do for you?