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PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale |OT| Use Supers to Smash your Bros!

Step

Member
Wow I wasn't following PSASBR for a few days and they blow my mind with that notes on the upcoming patch.

I was hoping for a foward/down square buff for Emmett and remove some start up but everything else is spot on, I'm really exited to know what will they do with Sir Daniel, I love to play with him but I gave up because of those top 5 chars.

Evil Cole lv 2 super will now be used at least, and the way it will dran AP is going to be awesome, finally a way to punish a lv 3 with a super and not just waste some time respawning.

And this might sound dumb but I hope they nerf Carmelita haha, the hitbox on her shot I find it so big.

Bring the new matches customization options Seth, please!!

Edit: I almost forget, you shouldn't be able to spam circle on Raiden's lv 2, they should add some stand up frames after pressing it.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Ah they nerfed Fat Ps spammy minions. While i never thought Fat P was the best i think she was one of the most annoying spammers ingame. Easily worse than Radec.

Jak. Ah i see they buffed most of the moves but not all. Oh well its a good st-oh who am i kidding. THEY FKING NERFED JAK. WHAT. DOWN CIRCLE AND FORWARD TRIANGLE. My god if they wont work properly or good enough Jak will seriously enter as one of the worst characters ingame.....

Fat Princess was definitely A Tier previously due to how easy it was for her to bunny hop and spam that air soldier for a Level 1 setup (similar to Toro's beloved divekick except even faster) which made it difficult to approach her. With this nerf she can't rely on that tactic so I'm hoping to see FP players go for more than just Level 1's, especially since her Level 3 shouldn't be quite as useless now.

Jak actually got what I feel are the perfect buffs/nerfs. Let's be honest, how many good Jak players did you see doing anything other than staying in the air as long as possible and constantly using those red and yellow guns? Since they buffed his useless guns, they have to nerf the ones that were the best so players won't keep relying on those and actually use his full moveset. I suspect that we can expect much more varied playstyles from Jak players post-patch.
 
Fat Princess was definitely A Tier previously due to how easy it was for her to bunny hop and spam that air soldier for a Level 1 setup (similar to Toro's beloved divekick except even faster) which made it difficult to approach her. With this nerf she can't rely on that tactic so I'm hoping to see FP players go for more than just Level 1's, especially since her Level 3 shouldn't be quite as useless now.

Jak actually got what I feel are the perfect buffs/nerfs. Let's be honest, how many good Jak players did you see doing anything other than staying in the air as long as possible and constantly using those red and yellow guns? Since they buffed his useless guns, they have to nerf the ones that were the best so players won't keep relying on those and actually use his full moveset. I suspect that we can expect much more varied playstyles from Jak players post-patch.

Biggest problem with Fat P is that no one used her. So she migth aswell be A Tier but no one cares since she is useless character haha. Althou legit reasons why she is not A tier is that her level 3 is just bad and BESIDES air minion spams not that deadly on moves. Sure you can show me good Fat P player but honestly that argument could be given to anyone. Maybe i think she would be better if id see her more often. XP

Lol, i used to spam forward triangle on Jak all the time. Youd be surprised how good Jak is when you spam that only good move and get actually good level 3 quite fast. (This was in unranked ofc, i wouldnt spam like that in ranked and i wouldnt risk losing belts using Jak. :p)
 

Aceun

Member
Biggest problem with Fat P is that no one used her. So she migth aswell be A Tier but no one cares since she is useless character haha. Althou legit reasons why she is not A tier is that her level 3 is just bad and BESIDES air minion spams not that deadly on moves. Sure you can show me good Fat P player but honestly that argument could be given to anyone. Maybe i think she would be better if id see her more often. XP

Lol, i used to spam forward triangle on Jak all the time. Youd be surprised how good Jak is when you spam that only good move and get actually good level 3 quite fast. (This was in unranked ofc, i wouldnt spam like that in ranked and i wouldnt risk losing belts using Jak. :p)

My two favorite characters discussion!

I think Fatty P is A tier because of all the safe moves she has. She really doesn't have to commit to anything which is part of what makes her playstyle so unique. She is a summons based character. I think that in general, the move away from confirms will make the game better and will expose who the bad players are who solely rely on one or two confirms. The only reason I ended up dropping Fatty P is because I hated the level 1 confirm, her level 2 was hit or miss, and her level 3 was essentially the worst level 3 in the game.

I tend to use all of Jak's tools, he's a much more interesting character that way. I think the way he was designed kind of exposed me to how useful his wave concussor is, but I mostly used that in a pinch or to setup wall traps. This will be good because I think it will again, expose the bad Jaks and open up some very interesting playstyles. It also likely means Jaks can potentially burst without a wall.

Also, the system changes makes it so those who use level 1 are skilled and have better timing, justifying the cheap cost of the level 1 and the more expensive 2 and 3s.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
My two favorite characters discussion!

I think Fatty P is A tier because of all the safe moves she has. She really doesn't have to commit to anything which is part of what makes her playstyle so unique. She is a summons based character. I think that in general, the move away from confirms will make the game better and will expose who the bad players are who solely rely on one or two confirms. The only reason I ended up dropping Fatty P is because I hated the level 1 confirm, her level 2 was hit or miss, and her level 3 was essentially the worst level 3 in the game.

I tend to use all of Jak's tools, he's a much more interesting character that way. I think the way he was designed kind of exposed me to how useful his wave concussor is, but I mostly used that in a pinch or to setup wall traps. This will be good because I think it will again, expose the bad Jaks and open up some very interesting playstyles. It also likely means Jaks can potentially burst without a wall.

Also, the system changes makes it so those who use level 1 are skilled and have better timing, justifying the cheap cost of the level 1 and the more expensive 2 and 3s.

I'm pretty sure Kat still has her level 1 setup where she starts a combo from anywhere, use the gravity grab (the dark hole looking one, not the throw command), then hit with one of those items that float around her into level 1.
 

Aceun

Member
I'm pretty sure Kat still has her level 1 setup where she starts a combo from anywhere, use the gravity grab (the dark hole looking one, not the throw command), then hit with one of those items that float around her into level 1.

I am completely okay with setups or more difficult confirms.

I haven't seen that happen consistently enough for it to bother me. Granted, most Kats I've played just used her ground confirm.
 
My two favorite characters discussion!

I think Fatty P is A tier because of all the safe moves she has. She really doesn't have to commit to anything which is part of what makes her playstyle so unique. She is a summons based character. I think that in general, the move away from confirms will make the game better and will expose who the bad players are who solely rely on one or two confirms. The only reason I ended up dropping Fatty P is because I hated the level 1 confirm, her level 2 was hit or miss, and her level 3 was essentially the worst level 3 in the game.

I tend to use all of Jak's tools, he's a much more interesting character that way. I think the way he was designed kind of exposed me to how useful his wave concussor is, but I mostly used that in a pinch or to setup wall traps. This will be good because I think it will again, expose the bad Jaks and open up some very interesting playstyles. It also likely means Jaks can potentially burst without a wall.

Also, the system changes makes it so those who use level 1 are skilled and have better timing, justifying the cheap cost of the level 1 and the more expensive 2 and 3s.

Eeeh its probably just my grudge for Fat P i guess. I just havent bothered so i dunno if she has good moves.

And Jak doesnt have a lot of good moves. Variety is meaningless if moves are shit. You can never make me think that down triangle, circle, forward circle and up circle are(were?) good moves. I might consider up triangle Peacemaker but it only does 5 AP ngggghhh. Jak is REALLY limited with forward triangle, down circle and maybe triangle. Hopefully patches fix this.

And i wont believe level 1s take more skills thing until i see it. Remember when they could update characters buffs and nerfs on the go promise?
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
I am completely okay with setups or more difficult confirms.

I haven't seen that happen consistently enough for it to bother me. Granted, most Kats I've played just used her ground confirm.

I've been getting caught up in that type of confirm since day 2. Hardly ever dropped, looks like it must be super easy. All it is is a dive kick into the ground combo > dark grab > flower pot > super. Sometimes I get out of it because of a magical mercy hill that somehow messes it up. I use the dive kick since it's the one I fear getting hit with the most. Outside of doing the super it's the full meter combo from anything. Example, Dive kick > ground hit 3 or so times > dark grab > hit x3 > dark grab > something something air spin kick blamo!

Now that I have seen Kat's changes I'm fully depending on Zeus to be her counter somehow lol :(

Edit: I remember another deadly tool, she can just dark grab to set it up if I start trying to stay in the air to avoid getting caught in her combo shinanigans. If I manage to even avoid that and she chip her way to level 2 it's only a matter of time that she would activate when I'm close to her and that level 2 is tricky to dodge. This patch may make activating the level 2 trickier but I'm sure the person I play will just end up getting close and not throw punches before dropping down to activate. Though I wonder if up throw will activate the super penalty. Though the throw never mattered for level 2, I'm more successful dodging level 3 than 2.
 

Aceun

Member
TMaakkonen said:
And Jak doesnt have a lot of good moves. Variety is meaningless if moves are shit. You can never make me think that down triangle, circle, forward circle and up circle are(were?) good moves. I might consider up triangle Peacemaker but it only does 5 AP ngggghhh. Jak is REALLY limited with forward triangle, down circle and maybe triangle. Hopefully patches fix this.

Hahaha! Good? No way. Useful, yes. I found they were great disrupters. Need lazer is an amazing way to deal with air campers. Timed correctly, the mass invertor could trick those who turtle. Gyro burster is mostly useless, but when you can use all the AP you can get, you don't complain lol. For the most part, the changes seem to address your concern and I'm excited because it'll make him a much rounded player.

I'm also happy about them taking out his eject on the blasters. This could be really good from a 2v2 perspective and will allow him to go toe-to-toe with Nate (and probably Isaac when he joins)

Ploid 3.0 said:
Now that I have seen Kat's changes I'm fully depending on Zeus to be her counter somehow lol :(

This could be a really fun match up.

I think I've had a very different experience against Kat. It's likely though because I play Jak and have a lot of tools to avoid her approaches. Her Level 2 does not impact me at all.
 

TheMink

Member
Im really really excited for these patch notes. Its so awesome.

I suspect then tiers will still be identifiable but much less so with virtually no chance for hit confirming.
 
So while we are waiting for more info lets do quick recap what we think are tier ranks here. Comment a lot so we can adjust to be perfect for here. From S-D. No Fs because no charcter is that bad :p

In no order:


S Rank: Kratos, Sly, Drake, Raiden

A Rank: Kat, Ratchet&Clank, Evil Cole, Sackboy

B Rank: Sweeth Tooth, Radec, Dante, Emmett, Fat Princess, Parappa, Toro, Cole

C Rank: Jak&Daxter, Spike, Heihachi, Nariko

D Rank: Sir Daniel, Big Daddy
 
Wow I wasn't following PSASBR for a few days and they blow my mind with that notes on the upcoming patch.

Bring the new matches customization options Seth, please!!

Edit: I almost forget, you shouldn't be able to spam circle on Raiden's lv 2, they should add some stand up frames after pressing it.

.
 

OmegaZero

Member
So while we are waiting for more info lets do quick recap what we think are tier ranks here. Comment a lot so we can adjust to be perfect for here. From S-D. No Fs because no charcter is that bad :p

I'll bite.
This is mainly my experience from facing characters 1v1. 2v2 and FFA is a whole other ball game.

S Tier: Kratos, Sly, Drake
A Tier: Kat, Cole, Fat Princess, Raiden
B Tier: Dante, Toro, Evil Cole, Rachet & Clank, Sackboy, Emmet
C Tier: Jak & Daxter, Spike, Heihachi, Parappa, Nariko, Sweet Tooth, Radec
D Tier: Sir Daniel, Big Daddy

Kratos, Drake, and Sly should be obvious.

Kat and Cole have annoying confirms from grabs/midair, and can AP burst from midair. Both have great ground and air mobility and tools to deal with nearly every situation. Fat Princess air camping makes her nearly untouchable if they're good at it, and she can confirm from the air. Raiden isn't S tier due to his predictable attack patterns, but he can easily get kills if the opponent slips up once.

Dante has great melee tools and crazy midair mobility, but relies on grounded opponents to gain AP. Toro's Oni form alone puts him above C Tier imo. Evil Cole's Giga Punch can be lethal if you're not paying attention, and he has a good wakeup game thanks to his throw confirm and oil slick. Still not as dangerous as Good Cole during high level play. Ratchet has good ranged and close-up tools, but can't AP burst unless there's an invisible wall around and relies on a keep-away game during 1v1 to safely build AP. Sackboy is a surprisingly capable melee fighter, and his electric pad is one of the most useful moves in the game for controlling space. Emmet has great AP gain, can fight well at almost any range due to his drops, and even has a turret to distract enemies/break combos. Lack of confirms and poor non-projectile moves keep him from being A Tier.

Jak has poor AP gain and few useful moves, but a great aerial game. Spike can control the battlefield and fight fairly well up close, but lacks reliable kill confirms. Heihachi relies on grounded opponents to gain AP (he builds meter like a beast), and gets destroyed by air campers and zoners. Parappa can AP burst and has a nice anti-camping tool, but lack of mid-screen kill confirms hurts his game. Nariko has an interesting moveset - half of her moves allow her to easily combo from midair/AP burst/zone effectively, while the other half are effectively useless unless you enjoy leaving yourself wide open. Lack of reliable kill confirms also keeps her lower then B Tier. Sweet Tooth's level 2 and predictable attack patterns hurt him. Although once he knocks someone down, he becomes a monster in the right hands. Radec can fight well at any range, but relies heavily on predicting opponents moves and also lacks a reliable level 1 kill confirm.

lol Dan's supers. lol Big Daddy in general.
 

HNGGHHHH
PaRappa
--- Level 2 Super - Skateboard time shortened to 4 seconds (previously 5 seconds)

Kratos

--- Reduced blocked frame disadvantage on 2nd neutral square to -10 from -14.

?? Did Kratos get BUFFED??

Why do that to PaRappa's Skateboard? Unless his moves in general net him AP more reliably, with a more consistent super 1. His super 2 was the most solid super he had, and even then, it was very prone to counter supers from a variety of level 1's.

I also feel Ratchet's Super 2 needed a slight buff.
Sackboy
--- Level 1 Super cost reduced to 125 (previously 150)
--- Level 2 Super cost reduced to 325 (previously 400)
--- Level 3 Super victim bubbles are able to move 50% faster

Nice. I want to play more Sackboy

--- Sir Dan Level 1 Super’s active hit frames increased by 8; Recovery on this Super has been reduced by 4 frames
--- Level 2 Super - The Homing Spirits now have delayed activation; They will now not blow up on opponents as they leave the Chalice; This improves the consistency of the Super and improves the chance that there will be one Homing Spirit per opponent
--- Level 2 Super cost reduced to 325 (previously 350)
--- Down Throw - Sir Daniel will no longer end up on the wrong side of the victim after this throw

Modest, happy to see more consistent super 2, wished for a super 3 buff.

--- Sly Cooper is now considered on the ground for the first 10 frames of jumping (previously 9)
--- Neutral Circle (Counter) is now only active for 15 frames (previously 26) and has 25 frames of ground recovery (previously 11)
--- Level 1 Super - Super is cancelled if Sly is hit during start up; Vulnerable from frames 5 until the first frame of Murray’s hit volume
--- Level 1 Super - The hit volume that appears when Murray splats onto the ground has been made smaller

YES!


SweetTooth
--- Stand Neutral Triangle can now be directed while it is active; Now gains 30 AP (upped from 8 AP) from a victim caught in front with all hits; Victims hit on the back side get ejected (Light reaction before) and also earn 30 AP (upped from 10)
--- Air Neutral Triangle AP gain upped to 30 on all hits (used to be 25 for front hits and 15 on back hits)
--- Stand and Air Up Triangle (Machete Toss) after a successful hit now continues through all opponents. Machete on ground no longer has a hit volume
--- Level 2 Super - Explosion radius increased by 0.5 meters, control strength increased, speed increased, minimum detonation time decreased by 9 frames to 6 (previously 15)
--- Level 3 Super - Reduced active time from 15 second to 13.5

Nice!
 

TheMink

Member
Those spike changes are sweet, the fact that the right square cause a butt drop will open sooooo many combos up.

Nobody make premature statements here, we dont know how this will affect everything until we try it ourselves.


That neutral triangle nerf on kratos is pretty huge, thats THE reason he was able to gain AP so fast.
 

SmithnCo

Member
About Nariko... Why did they change her down triangle? Now she has less combo options and they did nothing to her level 1... Her 2 will still be easily dodged and now she fires it even slower. And her only good super nerfed for no reason, was the extra time from circle really bad enough to be nerfed? lol, unless I'm missing something I might as well drop her.

Sweet Tooth changes are good at least.
 
Sly's most annoying moves are now nerfed. Good. My friend who is Sly main wont like that thou. :p

Sweeth Tooths level 2 getting fixed? Finally.

Spikes forward square Butt Drop could be good if it would make easy kill confirms. Also that level 2 explosion better be good.

Nariko got buff or nerf? Im still not sure...

PaRappas best super got nerfed. Yeah, nerf that midtier character. He is so bad!

Sackboy nerfed again oh for f sake. Cake disappears, shock pad is slower and you cant even hold bounce pad anymore. Oh that Jam fix is BULLS*** because its main issue was its AP gain. Oh and those lv 1 and 2 cost reductions? Who cares they arent that effective anyways. SIGH(Considering other nerfs)

Sir Daniel got no 40 AP from 3x normal square. Instead he got minor super buffs. Uggggggh they better work better....

Raiden did got more combo abilities. Completely ignored forward square kill confirm combo. nonoonooonnnnoonnonnonono STAHP WHAT ARE YA DOING??

That 40 AP glitch fix doesnt even count as real nerf. Kratos got buffed. KRATOS GOT BUFFED.


Radec, Ratchet and Toro got it ok.

But seriousy THEY BUFFED RAIDEN AND KRATOS o_o
 
Those spike changes are sweet, the fact that the right square cause a butt drop will open sooooo many combos up.

Nobody make premature statements here, we dont know how this will affect everything until we try it ourselves.


That neutral triangle nerf on kratos is pretty huge, thats THE reason he was able to gain AP so fast.

What's that again? The charge attack?

I agree with you, I do hope these buffs for seemingly top tiered characters are meta-responses to the buffs lower tier characters got. Generally, lower tiered characters getting more buffed is better than just high tier characters getting nerfed.

I think the AP adjustments to guys like Sackboy are fantastic, and I'm really hopeful that general changes benefit the lower tiered characters.

So pumped for this. Makes me wonder: Do you guys think SMS wants to support a sequel? No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, you know?
 
Oh yeah since shock pad is now so slow Sackboy pretty much lost a lot of his comboes and i think kill confirms too, unless if you count leaving shock pad and wait enemy to get hit by it.

So how about that Evil Cole Giga Punch and Raiden's forward square

Oh and i swear if we get more DLC or sequel from SSM they will add Ares. They are just so biased they will add Ares when they have a chance.
 
Wow. Utterly dumbfounded about Raiden and Kratos getting BUFFED while already-low tier characters like PaRappa and Nariko got further nerfed. What are they thinking over there?

At least Sly got nerfed quite a bit. So two of the big four got nerfed, and two of them got buffed. Huh. Looks like Raiden and Kratos REALLY dominate now.

I just don't understand.
 

Skyzard

Banned
I have a feeling they want (or have) to maintain some characters as easy to play. It is somewhat of a harder game since you have to kill with supers and it is supposed to be a more accessible fighter.

They seem to have made it easier to block the moves leading to the hit-confirms though? Is that the case for all of them?

Without really understanding all of what I read, I have faith they tried their best to do what they can and I am really looking forward to trying it out! Shame no DLC promotions here in the UK but I'm not too sour to pay (quite high) prices for the characters and stage, been one of my most played games.
 

SmithnCo

Member
They seem to have made it easier to block the moves leading to the hit-confirms though? Is that the case for all of them?

They made air attacks more punishable, after air attacks were all nerfed with a longer wait to super anyway, and as far as I can tell he still has ground confirms.

I hope Isaac is an okay character because the only character I use currently who got a decent buff was Sweet Tooth.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Oh yeah since shock pad is now so slow Sackboy pretty much lost a lot of his comboes and i think kill confirms too, unless if you count leaving shock pad and wait enemy to get hit by it.

So how about that Evil Cole Giga Punch and Raiden's forward square

Oh and i swear if we get more DLC or sequel from SSM they will add Ares. They are just so biased they will add Ares when they have a chance.

Maybe they are adding GOW characters because they make the games so they just have to ask themselves if it's ok to use the characters, and they will usually tell themselves, "Sure, but don't go crazy, protect our baby John." Meanwhile at Team ICO, " NO! Integrity, mine mine mine. Go away." and at Square Enix, "$,$$$,$$$."

I may take a look at this Kratos to see how he fares against the Kat.

They made air attacks more punishable, after air attacks were all nerfed with a longer wait to super anyway, and as far as I can tell he still has ground confirms.

I'm telling you guys, I bet you can avoid the penalty of staying on the ground after a wiffed air attack by immediately jumping and air dodging right as you jump. If it counts as their penalty for dodge awesome, but I have a feeling they left this out of the testing. That and characters with very fast and high priority ground attacks wiffing in the air, then landing and hitting the poor sap that is planning on punishing the person.
 

Skyzard

Banned
^ Will try to remember that about the jumping and dodging ha.

They made air attacks more punishable, after air attacks were all nerfed with a longer wait to super anyway, and as far as I can tell he still has ground confirms.

I hope Isaac is an okay character because the only character I use currently who got a decent buff was Sweet Tooth.

I appreciate the air stuff, was hoping for a bit more with the other moves though but I guess you can still predict and block, which I heard is now somewhat easier with some longer recoveries?

Kinda wish they aren't going to change the visuals for Heihachi's fast moves, even though I want to see what it looks like but it's so cool doing it, I'm sure a lot of the time they're just like wtf with the circle, square (fast), which I think is 'Wind God Fist'.
 
I have a feeling they want (or have) to maintain some characters as easy to play. It is somewhat of a harder game since you have to kill with supers and it is supposed to be a more accessible fighter.

They seem to have made it easier to block the moves leading to the hit-confirms though? Is that the case for all of them?

Without really understanding all of what I read, I have faith they tried their best to do what they can and I am really looking forward to trying it out! Shame no DLC promotions here in the UK but I'm not too sour to pay (quite high) prices for the characters and stage, been one of my most played games.

Agreed; the guys working on this game are more knowledgable about the metagame than most of us, and are doing the best they can. I have to keep believing that. That said, though, it's SO PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that Kratos and Raiden dominate this game already... but you made a good point when you said it might be because they have to maintain a couple characters as easy to pick up and win with.

Oh well. Game's still great!
 

Step

Member
Kratos and Raiden are getting buffs, that's great!! I missed them playing online, I was bored with all the Drakes and Evil Cole. *sarcasm*

Sly:
--- Neutral Circle (Counter) is now only active for 15 frames (previously 26) and has 25 frames of ground recovery (previously 11)
--- Level 1 Super - Super is cancelled if Sly is hit during start up; Vulnerable from frames 5 until the first frame of Murray’s hit volume
--- Level 1 Super - The hit volume that appears when Murray splats onto the ground has been made smaller

This makes me happy.
 

J-Tier

Member
I hope the nerfs for Raiden and Kratos are crippling enough that the buffs don't really matter...but I do doubt that is the case from what it looks like from the patch notes. We can't really know how they affect gameplay until they're out, buuuuuuuuuuuut....
 

J-Tier

Member
Just had a troll match, and it ended up being hype. I was playing 2v2 ranked with my friend and I decided to pick Big Daddy, and he picked Radec. Our first match was a mirror match up against a Big Daddy and Radec and ended up on Paris stage.

We both ended up going overtime, and at the end, the opponent's Radec got a level 2 while we were both at zero. I was basically like, "GET UP ON THE LEDGE! GET UP ON THE LEDGE!" so that it'd be hard for him to pop his lvl 2; and we both jumped up onto the ledge with my friend's Radec sniping, and me spamming the tornado with Big Daddy, since it was overtime, one guy jumped up, got hit by the tornado and I got level 1.

The funny thing was they were BOTH standing down at the base of the ledge trying to get us. As an opportunist...I popped the level 1 and got them both. I managed to do that again before time was up and we won. Was damn fun.

They must've been pissed. They were at like lvl 400+ both and I was like lvl 15 and my pal lvl 36 (we hardly use those character).

Just thought I'd share, I was laughing my ass off. Usually I play a scumbag Sly or just troll around with Heihachi in ranked (my real main is Ratchet) but....I forgot how fun it is to try other characters out...
 
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