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[Kurotri]

The PS5 generation is a bust. I'm happy that Ghost of Yotei is somehow being made instead of some live service game. Better luck next time with the PS6.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The goal of games doesn't have to be billions in revenue. That's a big problem with the mentality of the industry.

Twisted Metal was always fun to play at a base level. You sell that game with some sharp graphics and online play for say 40 dollars and people will buy it. It didn't have to be this crazy big game. Look at Rocket League. Massively popular and it's as simple as you can get. Sometimes people just overthink things. Not everything needs to be open world. A simple AA Twisted Metal game with online components would have been successful.

Remaking Killzones 1-3 with tight gameplay and visuals akin to Horizon Forbidden West with a multiplayer mode that they build up over time would have been a success. Not every game needs to be live service on day 1. You sell that for like 70 dollars and people would buy the campaign alone. At some point the industry decided to disconnect singleplayer and multiplayer games, but historically they've gone hand in hand. If Concord had a single player campaign, I guarantee you it would have sold at least a million copies across PC and Console. That goes a long way towards recouping investment. Sony should also push these GaaS games to play on PS4 as well as PS5. Helldivers 2 would have been even bigger if it was supported on PS4.

It's a self fulfilling cycle because as a studio has success and grows, the mentality is they want to make bigger splashier games. And that leads to more budget and people. And that leads to needing to sell tons of copies or mtx to pay the bills.

It's not often a game company is happy making similar games or even purposely downgrades to smaller projects. The next game always seems to be bigger and better with a higher budget.

And the higher the budgets, the better chance at getting those billions of juicy mtx revenue if they throw enough budget and marketing into a game.

No local small fry cookie maker would ever think they can be Nabisco. But in gaming, it seems just about any studio with a budget thinks they can be the next Oreo.

 

[FoxMcChief]

this is the worst Playstation generation i've seen, even PS3 recovered from its launch, i cant see PS5 doing the same. its past time for Hermen to step down

This.

 

[poodaddy]

Two great studios have wasted almost an entire generation on this GAAS shit. Embarrassing. Jim Ryan is a retard and so is Hermen Hulst.

I truly don't know how termination has eluded Hulst. At any other company, a leader spearheading this many failures would have to take it on the chin eventually and would simply be fired, but somehow these guys just fail upwards. It boggles the mind.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I said it in another thread earlier today, but the higher ups at Sony seem totally at odds with what gamers really want.

This had easily been the worst generation of Sony. I’ll take the Vita all over again before repeating the PS5 generation.

 

[Bartski]

 

[FeralEcho]

Meanwhile in the other thread when I said Sony doesn't give a shit what fans want anymore people were telling me how the reason we don't have a Bloodborne remaster or remake is because of Miyazaki's busy schedule and that Sony always lets their devs work on what they want....

I'm sure that's why the best remake studio in the world was working on a God of War gaas for the past couple years...because of Miyazaki's busy schedule and their awe of Concord's numbers,not corporate greed...

 

[Seomel]

The PS5 generation is a bust. I'm happy that Ghost of Yotei is somehow being made instead of some live service game. Better luck next time with the PS6.

Its crazy that ghost of yotei is only first party title atm we know thats coming this year. Theres that rumoured sop in february, but I dont expect much anyway until they do big show

 

[TrebleShot]

We don't know how much time or money was wasted.

What ever it was, it was a waste

 

[MALpractice311]

The Japanese leadership needs to take the reins. Permanently. Axe all of the top Western management. Move the headquarters back to Japan. Allow all these studios to develop passion projects. And start planning the PS6's launch line up now.

 

[ProtoByte]

I'm not sure if Endymion's sources are reliable, but if its true that Sony Japan were the ones to veto Sony America's decision to keep Concord and Firewalk Studios alive and simply cancel Concord, shut the studio who made it down, and write that POS as a tax-write off, then I'm hoping Sony Japan finally sees it times to reign things down. We need to remember that Sony still is a Japanese company and unlike Microsoft, the folks in Japan will likely say "Enough is enough" and come forward with an axe to boot.

Endymion is a fucking bullshit merchant. This Sony Japan Vs America shit is fabricated. Japan hasn't been the center for PS in over a 15 years, and no one wants to go back to PS3 era Sony.

 

[viveks86]

Like Ascension?

We all know how that turned out…

I just can’t picture what the presentation deck for this looked like. Somewhere in Bluepoint’s vault, this still exists. Filled with concept art, dollar signs, “user engagement” numbers and a grand fucking plan to make a persistent universe that mints money forever. I want to see it. And then spit on it and set it on fire so that other promising, albeit dead, projects can finally rest in peace

 

[Gilgalaad]

 

[MrRogers]

Endymion is a fucking bullshit merchant. This Sony Japan Vs America shit is fabricated. Japan hasn't been the center for PS in over a 15 years, and no one wants to go back to PS3 era Sony.

Nah, he is right pretty much all the time and he usually has receipts. PS3 era is a dream compared to PS5 era. PS5 will not be look upon as kindly when compared to the PS3. There are Indications that decisions are slowly trending eastward. A couple more big western flops will seal the deal and Japan will take creative/greenlight control again, tho In big corpos these kind of big changes move like molasses.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's a self fulfilling cycle because as a studio has success and grows, the mentality is they want to make bigger splashier games. And that leads to more budget and people. And that leads to needing to sell tons of copies or mtx to pay the bills.

It's not often a game company is happy making similar games or even purposely downgrades to smaller projects. The next game always seems to be bigger and better with a higher budget.

And the higher the budgets, the better chance at getting those billions of juicy mtx revenue if they throw enough budget and marketing into a game.

No local small fry cookie maker would ever think they can be Nabisco. But in gaming, it seems just about any studio with a budget thinks they can be the next Oreo.

I guess that's just human nature. Everyone is trying to achieve something greater and greater.

But I do think there is different aspects of success. Continually putting out profitable games is a success. It doesn't have to be a homerun, getting doubles every at bat is pretty good and it can lead to great things.

Look at Persona... it was a tiny franchise and now it's a major franchise after decades of iterations, even more if you consider the origins being SMT. There is value in sticking with franchises even if they're not massive sellers as long as they're not losing money and you can keep making each new game better.

Had Sony stuck with MP throughout the PS3 and PS4, they'd have their live service games already, but rather than try and build something organically, they're looking for homeruns. It reminds me of the MCU vs DCEU and how the MCU built out individual movies before bringing them together for the avengers but DC pushed fast and hard for Justice League as soon as they could.

 

[nnytk]

God, Bluepoint could've done a remake of Bloodborne by now. Ugh.

 

[balls of snow]

That Concord debacle must have been defcon 1 over at Sony hq.

Herman after looking at 2024 financial report : Cancel every gaas game.
Intern : Every one sir?
Herman:

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Helldivers was a fluke, everyone at sony, even Hermen was caught by surprise of its success and yes, we are very lucky Hulst didn't close Team ASOBI and they got one through. HH is responsible for greenlighting all these games since 2019. Hulst is just now course correcting all the major fkups he made over the last 5-6 years. Japan is going to put his ass on the chopping block in next year, you can book it.

Yeah an “8 year fluke” lol. Well that’s what happens with GaaS, some strike it big and others fail

Any success or failure could be called a fluke. Is concord a fluke?

 

[pasterpl]

So now we know why nothing else came from these studios this gen. They were working on GaaS that probably cost 100+M USD just to be cancelled.

 

[Moses85]

So we will see the next games from these studios 2028 on PS6.

Phatetic

 

[ProtoByte]

Nah, he is right pretty much all the time and he usually has receipts. PS3 era is a dream compared to PS5 era. PS5 will not be look upon as kindly when compared to the PS3. There are Indications that decisions are slowly trending eastward. A couple more big western flops will seal the deal and Japan will take creative/greenlight control again, tho In big corpos these kind of big changes move like molasses.

You're just wishcasting.

 

[SweetTooth]

Isn't that good? Less GAAS push?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I guess that's just human nature. Everyone is trying to achieve something greater and greater.

But I do think there is different aspects of success. Continually putting out profitable games is a success. It doesn't have to be a homerun, getting doubles every at bat is pretty good and it can lead to great things.

Look at Persona... it was a tiny franchise and now it's a major franchise after decades of iterations, even more if you consider the origins being SMT. There is value in sticking with franchises even if they're not massive sellers as long as they're not losing money and you can keep making each new game better.

Had Sony stuck with MP throughout the PS3 and PS4, they'd have their live service games already, but rather than try and build something organically, they're looking for homeruns. It reminds me of the MCU vs DCEU and how the MCU built out individual movies before bringing them together for the avengers but DC pushed fast and hard for Justice League as soon as they could.

I totally agree it's human nature. Myself included.

Even if I made the same money at a similar job, I'd find it hard to work at a small company. I;ve always worked at big companies with tons of products and people, stock prices, billions of sales. I can never see myself working at a company with only 50 people even if the product and people are good. But not every person is like this. Some people like smaller companies. But for me, I can handle working at big companies.

Most companies arent trying to max themselves out making the greatest product on Earth. They try to make a good product for the budget they got. And if it succeeds, its foundational and they build on it. After more success they expand to other products. Gaming has sequels and milk jobs too. But you also often get a new or existing studio making some high budget AA or AAA game that nobody wanted or asked for and it fails. It's like they just roll the dice on a company's money and just pray gamers like it. Sometimes they should be more realistic in what they make.

 

[Gonzito]

Sony has lost it

What the hell man, this is embarassing

 

[MrRogers]

Yeah an “8 year fluke” lol. Well that’s what happens with GaaS, some strike it big and others fail

Any success or failure could be called a fluke. Is concord a fluke?

What are you even talking about, Helldivers 2 was only out for a year. If you meant the first game as well, well it was a footnote in comparison to 2 in sales, and player count.

Concord isn't a fluke, it's the design, the point, the agenda, it's what all the upcoming sony GAAS are, hence the cancelations and imo massive future GAAS bombs.

 

[FeralEcho]

So now we know why nothing else came from these studios this gen. They were working on GaaS that probably cost 100+M USD just to be cancelled.

Don't worry,a couple of familiar faces here on GAF will keep telling us all how actually great everything is going

 

[DenchDeckard]

This is one hell of a generation for Sony.

Serious miss management going on at Sony this gen.

 

[SkylineRKR]

And this is why we didn't see anything new from Bluepoint.

 

[clarky]

This is one hell of a generation for Sony.

Serious miss management going on at Sony this gen.

True, but their saving grace is that the "competition" is even worse.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Oh no, we're never gonna see Demon's Souls Battle Royal and Days Gone the MMORPG what a shame. It's nice to see them learning and adapting. Good boys. Please hang it on your wall at the entrance: "Your customer is king" thank you

 

[Zathalus]

This Gaas push has been a complete disaster for Sony.

Concord - Complete failure, probably one of the biggest loss in the entertainment industry.
Naughty Dog - Years wasted on TLOU that went nowhere.
Blue Point - No wonder we haven’t heard a peep from them in over 4 years. Pure talent wasted.
Bend - Almost 6 years since the last game, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are on the chopping block.
Bungie - Management shitshow, vastly overpaid and returns have been middling.
Fairgame$ - Anyone expecting anything from this?

 

[ArtHands]

So now we know why nothing else came from these studios this gen. They were working on GaaS that probably cost 100+M USD just to be cancelled.

But people here, especially in this thread, said that the GAAS initiative is just Sony expanding upon their SP game business. Like it is an additive

 

[clarky]

This Gaas push has been a complete disaster for Sony.

Concord - Complete failure, probably one of the biggest loss in the entertainment industry.
Naughty Dog - Years wasted on TLOU that went nowhere.
Blue Point - No wonder we haven’t heard a peep from them in over 4 years. Pure talent wasted.
Bend - Almost 6 years since the last game, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are on the chopping block.
Bungie - Management shitshow, vastly overpaid and returns have been middling.
Fairgame$ - Anyone expecting anything from this?

Fairgames could have been decent, it just AAA Payday I think? Shame the art style is fucking dogshit, so yeah deffo a bust.

 

[Three]

So now we know why nothing else came from these studios this gen. They were working on GaaS that probably cost 100+M USD just to be cancelled.

They've only been working on it 2 years and they have multiple projects.

 

[djjinx2]

The PS5 generation is a bust. I'm happy that Ghost of Yotei is somehow being made instead of some live service game. Better luck next time with the PS6.

Because PS owners are so hungry, they have been eating up remasters ALOT. Making Sony record profits. I don't think Sony have hit the low yet to need to recover. Nothing will change for a few years yet. Maybe mid gen PS6.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Fairgames could have been decent, it just AAA Payday I think? Shame the art style is fucking dogshit, so yeah deffo a bust.

Nobody really knows as the gameplay clips were limited. But the concept is supposed to be similar robbing loot and trying to get away. The difference is Fairgame$ tone is based on Gen Zers robbing mansions or office towers with snarky remarks about rich people.

 

[SkylineRKR]

The GaaS push can't be good. Look at it: Naughty Dog has reportedly been set back for years. Result is that they still are a no show on PS5, and their first game won't be here before the system has been on the market for 5(!) years. To put it into perspective; remember the GT5 drama? That game came out when the PS3 was 4 years on the market.

Bluepoint, launched a Demon's Souls remaster. And has been a no show since.
Bend, no show since Days Gone on PS4
And the rest of the studios being set back, or the whole Firewalk situation.

This is bad. Especially the missed killer app by Naughty Dog. They could've had one or two 20+ million sellers extra. Instead they chased GaaS and ended up with nothing yet. I think this market has been set in stone, few games like Fortnite persist, but the majority fades away.

 

[DenchDeckard]

True, but their saving grace is that the "competition" is even worse.

100% Sony has been failing upwards thanks to pretty much 0 decent competition.

It's not something I would be proud of as a leading manufacturer in a space.

"We are shit....but luckily the alternative is even shitter, so we are great!"

 

[clarky]

Nobody really knows as the gameplay clips were limited. But the concept is supposed to be similar robbing loot and trying to get away. The difference is Fairgame$ tone is based on Gen Zers robbing mansions or office towers with snarky remarks about rich people.

Yeah, it'll bomb if that's true. Just base the tone on Heat and other famous bank heist films that are cool as shit if you are making a heist game, its fairly simple.

 

[Famipan]

Fantastic… Imagine if Bend would have spent that effort making Days Gone 2 and 3 instead.

It seems as if Sony even forgot how their subscription service works:
Only paid (single player) games with added online content requires a paid PS Plus subscription.

Sony would have earned a lot from me players like me who doesn’t sub to PS Plus but want to try the online mode in Days Gone 2 and 3. Adding a co-op /multiplayer to the Days Gone franchise is a no brainer.

 

[clarky]

Fantastic… Imagine if Bend would have spent that effort making Days Gone 2 and 3 instead.

It seems as if Sony even forgot how their subscription service works:
Only paid (single player) games with added online content requires a paid PS Plus subscription.

Sony would have earned a lot from me players like me who doesn’t sub to PS Plus but want to try the online mode in Days Gone 2 and 3. Adding a co-op /multiplayer to the Days Gone franchise is a no brainer.

Yep, Days Gone had a hell of a lot wrong with it but could have been easily refined into something decent with a sequel.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They should put smaller teams on this, 10-50 people instead of whole studios.

Also aim smaller, Minecraft, Rocket League. Those types but original games.

They will blow up if they are good, spending $400 million will not guarantee success, unlike single player titles.

 

[Thebonehead]

Lmao, so Jim Ryan essentially called for the live service push, and then bounced. Just made the company fail and waste money. Oof.

Also a GoW GaaS? Wtf is wrong with them? No one asked for that, no one wants that, lmao.

You didn't fancy KratosNite?

In a twist on the battle royale mechanics 50 Kratos's get to hunt down the little shit Atreus with extreme prejudice

 

[xrnzaaas]

They should put smaller teams on this, 10-50 people instead of whole studios.

Also aim smaller, Minecraft, Rocket League. Those types but original games.

They will blow up if they are good, spending $400 million will not guarantee success, unlike single player titles.

It would be a way to sink less money, but the main problem would still remain - it's not easy to predict whether a certain project is going to explode in popularity or not. There's no easy formula to copy like with singleplayer games. Your game will need to have specific genre, gameplay mechanics, characters or aesthetic people will go crazy for at the moment of release and you'd have to plan that several years in advance. Like recently we've seen a wave of new hero shooters while the genre seems to be on its way out.

 

[TheRedRiders]

What pisses me off is that by now Bend or Bluepoint could have shown off a new or original triple A game they "could" have been working instead wasting time on this trash. Fuck Hulst and Ryan.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Blue point was not working on bloodborne. i’m glad they failed.

What about of touch thing to say , as if they chose live service God of War .

 

[Heaven Angel]

Praise the Sun, Sony came to their senses. They should come back to their roots, Single Player games will always be loved and appreciated. Why go GaaS and broke.

 

[NuclearDiarrhea]

I truly don't know how termination has eluded Hulst. At any other company, a leader spearheading this many failures would have to take it on the chin eventually and would simply be fired, but somehow these guys just fail upwards. It boggles the mind.

It does seem that he always gets the praise for Playstations successes but never gets the blame for any of its failures. He's like Phil Spencer, but less fat.

 

[Hudo]

Very good. Now either cancel Marathon or force Bungie to redo it and make it a single-player campaign for it worthy of Marathon. They can keep their shitty multi-player as a separate mode.

 

[GHG]

Singleplayer games don't sell anymore.

This person is more deserving of David B 's tag than David B himself.