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PlayStation Network Thread | April 2015

Adeptrain

Member
Another banned game, hmm?

Disappointing, but I'll just use TVL's forum if I need to chat about it then - and you're all welcome to do the same if you're interested and need a place to talk about it.

Ummm, what is TVL?
You know, all this talk of censorship reminds me of a funny story my friend told me here in South Korea. So, bringing doujins, Porn games, anime and regular Porn to Korea from Japan is illegal. You won't get arrested, but they will seize it all at customs (if they find it).

Try to bring pedo doujins, etc will get you arrested (and if you're a foreigner, deported). So!! This has created a rather robust black market where popular authors and works actually go for 500% to 1000% of their value in Japan. The more risqué the subject matter, the more they're worth.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
That, in a nutshell, is what the moderation team feels towards this subject in general.
Great. I agree with the sensibilities of the moderation team in terms of the content. Regardless, for everyone involved, clarity is best. Thanks.
 

autoduelist

Member
I want to know from the perspective of those who seem to be bothered by this who they are mad at, because from what I understand everyone seems to be mad at Atlus, when they clearly have done nothing wrong. Shouldn't these people be mad at ESRB? Shouldn't they support the company for making an effort in order to bypass a block being made by the ratings organization?

There's no 'correct' entity to be angry with, and that's part of the problem. Personally, I'd rather get the games localized. Atlus is doing what they have to do to get games here, and I'm happy they are. I'll buy localized drpgs to support more localized drpgs, though I wish more would come over that didn't have this crap [or 'social links/aspects' in general].

That's part of the real problem with 'censorship'... once it gets going, it's really difficult to stop. You've got to be 'that guy/gal' defending some fucking terrible person's right to say racist/sexist/whatever bullshit because you believe in the freedom to do so, even though you'd probably rather give them a good shake and tell them to get their head straight. You've got to defend the ridiculous drawings in some of these games for the same reasons you'd defend Renaissance artists painting nudes and putting dingalingadingdongs on infant/child Cupids if some fanatical group wanted them covered/removed.

Not to mention, once people know things will get censored, they're far more likely to self-censor for fear of crossing some imaginary line.

It's really interesting going to a foreign country and watching television or whatever. TV in the US is ridiculously prude, and it's almost shocking to see how upfront and honest many other countries are about the human body. Or more to the point, it's shocking to realize how prude US television is, and by extension, shocking that we're shocked that other countries don't hide it.

RE: the banning of discussion on this forum. It's a privately owned forum and so it's perfectly fine. If someone came in my house, I'd expect the same courtesy if I asked them to stop talking about [whatever]. Stop or get out. It's probably for the best since it just gets people riled up, though I do wish gameplay specific discussions could be had about any game.
 

Sondar

Member
Vita Lounge Magazine arrived. :)

P4240039_zpskgk9xcq8.jpg
 

Kudo

Member
Anyone else tried to get to the Dragons Dogma Online Alpha on PS3?
Is there any NDA in place or anything? It's been going for few days and no pictures/videos so I'd assume.
 

Prelude.

Member
So exactly why is discussion for other fanservice games allowed if it's not focused on the fanservice but Dungeon Travelers 2 is completely banned?
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
So exactly why is discussion for other fanservice games allowed if it's not focused on the fanservice but Dungeon Travelers 2 is completely banned?

Thats something you will have to talk to the mods about. As regardless of what people say there is little to no chance that they will reverse their decision regardless of the games content. Since they made their decision based off of whatever resources they found and set a decision from there.

If you want answers that have an actual meaning you will have to talk to those who run / help run the site.

It should be fairly clear as for the most part with the 2 posts that Seda put up as to what their stance is on the issue.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Soooo... Guys. God Eater 2 Rage Burst announcement at E3 right??
Let's not get banned please lol.

Considering the anime starts in July in Japan with that driving hype for the series now if it has one of those simultaneous broadcasts with Western streaming services such as crunchyroll to drive hype for the series in the West most def could see Bandai Namco announcing it during the E3. If they would show off localized trailer for the anime is a whole different subject though.
 

wilflare

Member
As of right now, we're sold out of our first issue.

The plan is to do a reprint in the future, but only people who backed TVL's magazine tier before the Patreon rolled over to issue #2 got a first-print copy of issue #1.

wait.. how did I miss your Patreon - oh gawd.
got a link?

EDIT: found it. ah the tier I want is out :(
backed the $10
 

Li Kao

Member
On a broader scope than the Dungeon Traveler censorship or the Mod policy, I must say I am quite saddened to see gamers are quite fickle in their world view. I mean, a few years ago everyone agreed to defend the idea that playing GTA didn't make you a potential murderer, but fan-service ? You pedophile, loljapan etc...
I can certainly acknowledge that opinions can vary on the topic, and won't say that Japan isn't taking it too far sometimes, but the irony at play is a little disheartening to me.
 
Considering the anime starts in July in Japan with that driving hype for the series now if it has one of those simultaneous broadcasts with Western streaming services such as crunchyroll to drive hype for the series in the West most def could see Bandai Namco announcing it during the E3. If they would show off localized trailer for the anime is a whole different subject though.
Aye, I sure hope so. With Ufotable on the helm, I cannot wait to see what they do with the animations, Fate may have its story flaws, but Ufotable makes the action scenes perfectly, some of the most beautiful pieces in anime arguably. I don't quite know if this is going to be based on the first game, the second, or even "in-between", but I look forward to it as a fan of the series. It would make business sense to do what you said, and that is why I am almost sure we will hear some news around then.
 

Kudo

Member
GE anime is definitely going to be treat to watch, probably looking forward to it more than the game localization tbh.

I got accepted to Dragons Dogma Alpha on PS3, but looks like it doesn't let me make account for the game and just says it's for Japanese only (Using Japanese account so it takes the location from IP), don't want to mess around with proxy but this is a shame, I hope the retail on PS4/PC is not region blocked too.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
So,is the download queue now working again?

For the consoles anyways works fine for me as long as I do everything through the web. Has there been a problem more recently or something?

Does not work as well with the vita due to the damned idle mode it falls into so if its a larger file it gets cut off sometimes. I should look at what my system settings are on that.
 

antibolo

Banned
I wish people would stop misusing the expression "fan service". Pandering to deviants is not servicing your fans.

Smash Bros. is fan service. Criminal Girls is not fan service, it's just creepy, questionable content.
 

SerTapTap

Member
Using 2 PS4s is a bit weird (which makes game sharing with strangers even more baffling to me). My secondary PS4 has this awkward period where it needs to log in in the background every time it wakes up. It eliminates a moderate amount of the digital+ 2 consoles benefit for me--between me having to sign in each time (time wasted) and manually downloading uploading cloud saves (annoyance) it's not all that much more convenient than moving a disk/PS4 around. If I were less picky I'd probably use the PS TV to do this via remoteplay.

So,is the download queue now working again?

It worked flawlessly on web for me the last time I tried, for the first time in months. Not sure if it's fixed consistently though.

Why does the PS+ system not let me "purchase" the free PS3 and PS4 versions of a game? I can only pick one.

If it's cross-buy, buying one adds all of them to your account. Only Binding of Isaac and Dragon's Crown had to be "bought" both times with PS+ because they weren't actually cross buy.

I'm an adult. The only person that should decide what I can or can not see is me.

Agreed, and well said. Don't have much more to say on this issue (why did I go in that other thread...) since no one's opinions will change anyway.
 

deadfolk

Member
Speaking of cross-buy, I'm seeing something weird.

I was checking to see if the PS3 version of Oddword: New 'n' Tasty was available in EU, and sure enough there's two items listed on the shop:

Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty (PS4™)
Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty

Although both say they are playable on PS3 and PS4. Okay, fine, but...

I picked up the PS4 version while it was on PS Plus, but both versions show a price of €19.99. Neither are in my download list, but I can't add them to my basket, so at some level it knows I own it. It's currently installed on my PS4, and it starts okay.

Anyone seeing anything like this?
 

bobohoro

Member
I'm an adult. The only person that should decide what I can or can not see is me.

While I absolutely agree with your stance and, in an ideal world, would love to consume created content unfiltered and form my own opinion on what I find offensive and not, as well as discuss this with other people on a forum without the need to ban anything, we don't exist individually in a vacuum. Publishers have rating boards to think of, the public at large that is on average less accepting and their own brand image they care for. Moderators likewise have every right to just outright state they don't want the trouble of dealing with the discussions surrounding certain games, they can get extreme and the internet sadly never has been a place for rationality and honest exchange of opinions.

That's pretty much all I have to say about that. The situation is what it is, I'm sure nobody involved is satisfied with the status quo for various reasons, we can all just respect the decisions being made and carry on with our thoughts by ourselves.

RIP maid and curvey, by the way.
 
Any tips for the murphy levels of Rayman Legends. I remember the good old frost hating those levels but I disregarded them. Now I'm raging fast and hard playing them.
 

Prelude.

Member
Thats something you will have to talk to the mods about. As regardless of what people say there is little to no chance that they will reverse their decision regardless of the games content. Since they made their decision based off of whatever resources they found and set a decision from there.

If you want answers that have an actual meaning you will have to talk to those who run / help run the site.

It should be fairly clear as for the most part with the 2 posts that Seda put up as to what their stance is on the issue.
That's pointless since they're not gonna change their stance but I was just wondering if there is a logical criterion on which we can talk about fanservice game X if we leave the risqué part of it out of the thread and we can't even mention fanservice game Y even though there's obviously a lot more to talk about that's not inappropriate content for this forum.
I wish people would stop misusing the expression "fan service". Pandering to deviants is not servicing your fans.

Smash Bros. is fan service. Criminal Girls is not fan service, it's just creepy, questionable content.
That's well within the spectrum of fanservice whether you like it or not so don't mistake your personal views on the matter for misuse of a particular term.
 

SerTapTap

Member
That's well within the spectrum of fanservice whether you like it or not so don't mistake your personal views on the matter for misuse of a particular term.

I do wish there were a more specific term for sexual fan service or that the term were generally assumed to be the general term rather than the sexual one. For instance I once wanted to note that Senran Kagura does "fan service" well in terms of unique character voices, many, many spoken lines, per character animations, they do a lot to make their characters appeal to fans beyond the boobies and stripping and such. It's harder to discuss that sort of fan service without people assuming you're referring to the other, especially if it's not a game that includes both kinds, like SK or Project X Zone.
 

antibolo

Banned
I do wish there were a more specific term for sexual fan service or that the term were generally assumed to be the general term rather than the sexual one. For instance I once wanted to note that Senran Kagura does "fan service" well in terms of unique character voices, many, many spoken lines, per character animations, they do a lot to make their characters appeal to fans beyond the boobies and stripping and such. It's harder to discuss that sort of fan service without people assuming you're referring to the other, especially if it's not a game that includes both kinds, like SK or Project X Zone.

This.

The misuse of "fan service" comes from an ironic usage of it. It started from the cynical assumption that fans are simple-minded and just want their favorite characters to be sexualized. But then its misuse got even more diluted and is now used for any form of gratuitous sexualization. And as a result it's now hard to use the term for its true meaning even though it is still a very real thing. It's annoying and I wish it would stop.
 

RK128

Member
I haven't been online here for a few hours and people got banned! That is horrible :(, hope they get their accounts back soon.

Is this about the censorship of that Vita game Atlus is localizing? If so, then that is a shame, as the Vita getting an growing amount of DRPG's is great :).

I read this morning that discussion of that game is banned (read that post the Moderator was nice enough to share with us), so while it sucks we can't talk about the game, their are other places on the web we can talk about it (the people able to use the LIME chat and other Vita forums like the Vita Lounge's form :D).

On more lighter news, been playing both Shovel Knight and Once Piece Unlimited World Red and both are great games :D. The former is such a great retro-throwback to the great NES games while doing its own unique thing while the latter is really impressive; bright colorful visuals, strong performance on the Vita, combat that looks to be really expansive with its nine character cast, and lots to do and collect (missions to complete in the town, many resources to find in order to fix up the town), levels having a Metroidvainna-esc system (where as you level up your characters, I think you gain their traversal abilities, so you can explore new areas in the levels) and the game just being a lot of fun :D.

Watched one of the One Piece movies on YouTube this morning to understand the characters a bit more (as I haven't watched One Piece since 2005!) and I remember why I am always interested in this world; it just looks too crazy XD! All of the cast is just insane and the fights reach DBZ levels of craziness at times (in the movie at least). Glad I put the extra PSN credit to pick this up during the sale :).
 

RK128

Member
Hey there was a PC one right?
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I am so glad I held off on buying batman on that last sale. My cousin bought it and I had a chance to play it and I can say that it mediocre.

Glad you got out man :D! Hope you are feeling better and that the recovery went smoothly :).

Hope you enjoy One Piece Vita, as it is quite fun so far (beat the first three levels myself) :D.
 

SerTapTap

Member
Noooo just cause 3 has hideous box art:


Was honestly considering PS4 to have a physical copy but maybe not if it's just going to ugly up my shelf. Still excited for the game of course.

I haven't been online here for a few hours and people got banned! That is horrible :(, hope they get their accounts back soon.

Is this about the censorship of that Vita game Atlus is localizing? If so, then that is a shame, as the Vita getting an growing amount of DRPG's is great :).

There was a thread on the front page that...bleh just ignore the thread.

Speaking of physical I have no idea how to buy Shovel Knight. I think I'll get the PS4 retail copy, unsure if I should just buy digital too and leave the physical one unopened. While I love the heck out of digital cross buy I honestly rarely use it on Vita. Binding of Isaac is one of few games I take advantage of portably, there's so many exclusives on Vita I just play those when I'm out and about.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
That's pointless since they're not gonna change their stance but I was just wondering if there is a logical criterion on which we can talk about fanservice game X if we leave the risqué part of it out of the thread and we can't even mention fanservice game Y even though there's obviously a lot more to talk about that's not inappropriate content for this forum.

That's well within the spectrum of fanservice whether you like it or not so don't mistake your personal views on the matter for misuse of a particular term.

The thing is Seda gave a pretty specific examples in the following post below.

Hi

Parakeetman asked me to jump in to issue an final say on this topic in this thread. I'm not going to issue an ultimatum of anything (especially not without talking with the rest of the team) so instead, I'll link two posts from other moderators from the thread "Will discussion of certain games be banned on Neogaf from here on out?"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120123778&postcount=307

As a result of a few different industry trends, we're seeing an increasing number of games being released and localized that focus their appeal around sexualized interaction with young children, or characters who appear to be young children. A few years ago this type of content typically wouldn't be allowed by Western platform-holders at all; today it's getting published with light censorship.

Threads about these games get creepy very, very quickly. They tend to bring out discussion which is, in and of itself, bannable due to inappropriate or offensive sexual content. They frequently involve content that cannot actually be discussed or posted without breaking our NSFW rules. And even if neither of these happens, they often degenerate into angry discussions about censorship, pedophilia, or child pornography. Frankly, we don't like moderating these threads, and we don't think they reflect well on the community.

We're not trying for philosophical rigor here. Maybe lots of people enjoy GTA in ways that can defensibly be understood as being just as creepy as something like Criminal Girls. But that doesn't dominate threads about GTA, those threads don't turn into arguments about murder-philia, and they don't trigger the same kind of fundamental revulsion. So we're not saying these games can't exist or even that people can't enjoy them. We just don't want them /here/.

We're not going to draw an absolute sharp boundary on this. We just want to make it clear going forward that games which focus on the sexualization of children are not appropriate for our community. Criminal Girls is out. Games that include creepy elements as one small part are okay -- Fire Emblem isn't inappropriate to discuss even though we don't want long thread derails about its more unpleasant fanservice elements

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120123817&postcount=309

Let me start by stating that everyone has their own individual set of values, and we do understand that. Our goal with the policy going forward is not necessarily to single out any group of fans as outright reprehensible people for liking video games, particularly not games that are released legally and rated by the ESRB. Further, there are valid arguments to consider in terms of why other morally dubious content seemingly gets a pass.

Having said that, though, I want to also state that the consensus on the moderation team here is that -- fair or not -- we really have next to no desire to have games that feature sexual content starring characters that either are or appear to be underrage given a platform here. We have even less desire (i.e. none) to actually have to read and moderate these threads. As such, these threads will often go unmoderated.

This is a problem. It's a problem for everyone. It's a problem for fans of the game that actually want to talk about the game and aren't necessarily there just to oogle questionable artwork. It's a problem when imagery gets posted that goes beyond what we consider in good taste and we aren't there to react. It's a problem for us in that we get complaints from people on either side of the issue and feel a sense of responsibility to react, but don't really know what to do. Do we go in to promote civility in the conversation, or do we go in to crack down on what we deem to be inappropriate sexual content that features characters that appear to be minors? I think by and large, several (perhaps most) just opt out of doing anything because we simply want no part of the conversation. Frankly, the less I personally know about Monster Monpiece or Criminal Girls, the better.

But that's not appropriate as an official policy. It's confusing for you, and it's even confusing for us. So the consensus we've reached in regards to these games that prominently feature underage girl fan-service is to simply not give them a platform here. That's not to say that we all out and out condemn the very existence of these products and the fans that would play and want to talk about them. But we just honestly feel that there is no place for it here.

As always, if you have questions about a particular game, or a facet of the conversation that you are unclear of, you are more than welcome to PM moderation with your comments and concerns.

That, in a nutshell, is what the moderation team feels towards this subject in general. As always, with any moderation questions (about anything), send a PM (seriously).

Also bishoptl said the following in the same thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120123820&postcount=310

Originally Posted by Mihael Mello Keehl

Are the girls really underage though? Like how old are they?

1000 years old, I heard. Which means I should probably get that thread reopened.

Originally Posted by shunxsato

News threads should be completely objective and on hand in the topic and if someone wants to derail it, they can do so in Community. If you wanna be snarky and talk shit about other's tastes, there are PMs, other threads, and other means of communication for that. Things like that have no place in a news thread where people SHOULD be solely discussing the news on hand.

You assume that this is an appropriate forum for discussing new news on games that involve the sexualization of little kids.

Nope.

With all of that and if you browse through the thread too its pretty straightforward what general standards that the mods go by is. Esp those 2 specific examples that Seda gave.
 

wilflare

Member
Noooo just cause 3 has hideous box art:



Was honestly considering PS4 to have a physical copy but maybe not if it's just going to ugly up my shelf. Still excited for the game of course.



There was a thread on the front page that...bleh just ignore the thread.

Speaking of physical I have no idea how to buy Shovel Knight. I think I'll get the PS4 retail copy, unsure if I should just buy digital too and leave the physical one unopened. While I love the heck out of digital cross buy I honestly rarely use it on Vita. Binding of Isaac is one of few games I take advantage of portably, there's so many exclusives on Vita I just play those when I'm out and about.

hmm I thought the devs were only thinking about a retail release? - nothing is confirmed right?
 

RK128

Member
There was a thread on the front page that...bleh just ignore the thread.

Speaking of physical I have no idea how to buy Shovel Knight. I think I'll get the PS4 retail copy, unsure if I should just buy digital too and leave the physical one unopened. While I love the heck out of digital cross buy I honestly rarely use it on Vita. Binding of Isaac is one of few games I take advantage of portably, there's so many exclusives on Vita I just play those when I'm out and about.

I think getting it digitally is a good idea too; you will be getting the game for three platforms vs. one platform (not sure if the retail version has the cross-buy :l).

The Vita version runs and plays great, and it is the way I'm playing the game myself (it is a ton of fun :D), so getting it for the Vita isn't a bad idea.

Do what you want man, but half the price you will be getting the game for three systems instead of just one, so I think that is a good trade off overall :).
 

VLiberty

Member
Yep, download queue finally worked after a week of problems.


Speaking of cross-buy, I'm seeing something weird.

I was checking to see if the PS3 version of Oddword: New 'n' Tasty was available in EU, and sure enough there's two items listed on the shop:

Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty (PS4™)
Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty

Although both say they are playable on PS3 and PS4. Okay, fine, but...

I picked up the PS4 version while it was on PS Plus, but both versions show a price of €19.99. Neither are in my download list, but I can't add them to my basket, so at some level it knows I own it. It's currently installed on my PS4, and it starts okay.

Anyone seeing anything like this?

I've got the PS+ version too and it worked, after some initial problems when the PS3 version hit.

Are you trying from the webstore or PS3 store?
 

autoduelist

Member
Why does the PS+ system not let me "purchase" the free PS3 and PS4 versions of a game? I can only pick one.

It's a safety mechanism in place to make sure you don't buy (for real money) multiple versions of a cross-buy game. It just also triggers when they're free. Buy one, get both.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Soooo... Guys. God Eater 2 Rage Burst announcement at E3 right??
Let's not get banned please lol.

I think it will come over. They had an English subbed trailer already, and it just seems kinda dumb to me to make a PS4 version of the game if they don't intend to localize it, given the PS4's low userbase in Japan.
 
I won't lie, I do find it funny that all these banned games are Vita games. Just a function of it being the de facto lead Playstation platform in Japan I guess.

I'm strongly considering not buying any more games this year after Splatoon and Witcher 3 and just finishing my PS+ backlog. I mean, I don't really worry about my backlog, but there are so many games I really do want to play and haven't even started yet, and the hole is just getting deeper :p
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Vita is the one system where I don't really carry a backlog. Just P4G and FF X/X-2 at the moment, the rest of them are technically PSP titles.

Meanwhile I've got around 30 3DS and 20 Wii U titles to go through.
 

Prelude.

Member
The thing is Seda gave a pretty specific examples in the following post below.

Also bishoptl said the following in the same thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120123820&postcount=310

With all of that and if you browse through the thread too its pretty straightforward what general standards that the mods go by is. Esp those 2 specific examples that Seda gave.

And, since you played it, do you think DT2 "focuses on the sexualization of children" or "creepy elements" are a major part of it as much as CG or Monpiece?
 
Soooo... Guys. God Eater 2 Rage Burst announcement at E3 right??
Let's not get banned please lol.

Hopefully, God Eater Burst is one of my favorite PSP games and I still play it, I can only be in media blackout for so long. In terms of Vita games during E3 season I'm" pulling for either Rage Burst (more likely thanks to PS4 and it's Namco) or Phantasy Star Nova (less likely because it's SEGA).
 
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