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[kingfey]

Why? F2P games don't require PSPlus. You can just buy a PS4 and download fortnite to play it. Or Warzone, which are the 2 biggest multiplayer games on PlayStation.

I'm sure if you needed PSPlus for everything online, these numbers would be bigger.

PS+ has incentives rewards. So its must have service for these f2p games.

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/category/a42d9fd4-6dc5-4821-8d72-8ad971b4e32f/1

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

PS+ has incentives rewards. So its must have service for these f2p games.

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/category/a42d9fd4-6dc5-4821-8d72-8ad971b4e32f/1

wow...one useless package per game. no kid out there is asking their parents for psplus to have a single free pack of anything. most of what's in there is useless.
It's in no way "a must have".

 

[kingfey]

wow...one useless package per game. no kid out there is asking their parents for psplus to have a single free pack of anything. most of what's in there is useless.
It's in no way "a must have".

Kids are stupid.
You expecting kids to be smart with those stuff.

Even adults have ps+ exclusively for these perks and other stuff.

You are forgetting the cost of ps+ in the 1st place. Its 60$ a year. a 1 time payment. They arent paying monthly fees. That is how you end with these incentives.

 

[yurinka]

And MS made $2.1b a year at 10$ or $3.2b a year at 15$ from 18m users, not counting xbox live users revenue.

This would be if nobody was using free months or $1 deals, nobody would be buying at cd key stores and everybody would be buying in USA intead of in other countries which have lower prices. These numbers are only fanttasy, the real revenue must be much smaller.

Then you are throwing away your xbox account, which you use it to purchase those games.

With Gamepass you don't purchase games, you rent them.

That is why it wont have 48m users instantly. You will have to make ps+ users move to the new gamepass competitor. And you cant force ps+ to move to that service, because of consumer protection laws.

Yes, they will have 48M subs from the start because they already have them.

If MS change xbox live gold to gamepass gold, it wont affect the actual gamepass subs.

True, prettty likely there wouldn't be a big change because being able to upgrade your Gold months to GPU monhts for $1 is an awesome deal that I asume that almost everyone who had an active Gold sub must have got.

That is the perk of having bigger base.

Yes, the main reason of Sony having around 2X game subs is Sony having around 2X their console userbase, which I assume are there because they console appealing their offerings (catalog and pricing).

But that wont be the same after this year. 25m users can now match the 48$ subscription fees.

And the more subscriber gamepass gains, the more revenue it would have.

The downside of Sony, is that they dont have PC users, like gamepass does. as long as that section exist, MS would make more money from the subs.

During a year GP barely did grow until they released Halo & Forza Horizon. Let's see what happens this year. I think whenever they include ABK games it will increase, but I think this won't happen until they close the acquisititon, and the upcoming remaining games with Sony marketing deal, if they have the same 'anti Gamepass' clause included in RE Village, won't be in GP until at least 15-16 months after release and this is if Sony doesn't decide to put them on their game subs. But I assume that if it's the case it will only affect a couple of yearly CoDs since pretty much in Summer 2023 once the deal gets closed, all the previous one will have expired.

Plus who knows, maybe MS and Sony signed some sort of no aggresion deal to keep CoD and Bungie stuff multiplatform and to don't block each other. We can only speculate.

In fact, botth Sony and MS are working on more acquisitions and at least in Sony's side, so bettween acquisitions and Spartacus things can change a lot this year. If Bloomberg isn't lying again (something they frequently do when talking about Sony) and Sony completes this year the plans they had for the next gen PS Now, other than catalog Gamepass and Spartacus will be pretty similar, with the main difference of -apparently- no downloadable PC games and no 1st party day one games on Sony's side.

Also, PSnow makes like $180m a year. That service needs complete overhaul.

We don't know how much revenue does it make, we only know Plus+Now make almost $4B a year.

Then we would have to add xbox live gold to gamepass numbers then.

Prettty likely MS doesn't reveal them because most of them are already inside GPU. But yes, adding Gold as a GP tier outside having Gold embedded on GPU would help to make a more similar, almost 1:1 comparision.

That service would start from the scratch. And if people go to that service, PS+ would lose alot of users, since they moved to the new tier.

The service will be the resultt of merging Plus and Now and adding more things on top. If some PS+ subs change to anoher tier they will continue being subscribers, but now will be generating more revenue.

That subscription cap for that service is 50m at most.

No, ~50M+ is tthe subscriptions they will have at the start and will grow from there.
Many players will be interested on getting a subscription to rent hundreds/thousands of games, as we seen in base gamepass.
I think that as happens in gamepass, only the tier with cloud gaming will be locked to a handful of dozen countries, which means that way more players will be able to get this no cloud gaming tier, and also being cheaper than the cloud gaming one would be more appealing for people in countries with streaming.
Plus they are supposed to highly improve their catalog and stuff included (like 'extended demos') and bring it to mobile and smart tvs, which will help grow a bit more.
Plus there will be some Plus subs who will upgrade to other tiers, so their revenue will increase not only with growing their userbase.

You have to keep in mind, that doing tier plan increase revenue depends on the pricing. If 20m ps+ users went to the 10$ service, that would mean $2.4b revenue a year. While ps+ would have 28m users, and would generate $1.680b revenue. A total of $4b revenue. at 15$, that would be $3.6b+$1.680b=$5.28b.

PS Plus + Now already generate almost $4B/year. If a portion of PS Plus subs move to a more expensive tier, that revenue will increase. Plus with all the new subs who as of now don't have Plus or Now, the revenue will be even higher. Only from subs, not counting here related DLC/MTX/season passes etc.

MS money comes from standalone service. They dont depend Xbox live gold for their profits.

MS has no profits from gaming or Gamepass. They just spent $80B on acquisitions and are puting AAA games day one on a subscripion wih 25M subs and pretty likely many millions of them are there for free or paying $1.

We can talk about Psnow, which managed to get RD2 on a 3m subscription. If that service can afford a game like that, then most games at gamepass is very cheap for MS.

Most games that Sony include on PS Now are old games that already sold all the units they had to sell, so to include games there doesn't cost them sold units and it's super cheaper to sign each 3rd party game.

Instead MS puts there many new AAA games, so they lose many related game sales and its way more expensive to put 3rd party games if they are new because of losing sales.

This is the reason of why Sony's approach is profitable and MS not: because it has way cheaper costs to fill the catalog.

They will have to. They have no choice.

Gamepass set the stage with Day1 1st party in the service. If Sony wants to compete with that service, they would need to put their day1 games in to their spartacus, and spend alot of money getting AAA 3rd party games day1 on that service.

Even after the ABK acquisittion Sony continues making more gaming revenue than MS, has ~2X the console userbase, has ~2X the game subs, unlike MS their game subs and game division are profitable, has he biggest platform for AAA games, SIE continues breaking gaming history records for any console platform holder and SIE continues having a great growth in most areas where they are.

Absolutely nothing forces them to include their games day one on a game subscription or in PC. Sony is the clear market leader in many areas and MS is sill way behind. It's MS who must do stuff to improve and being compete and reach Sony, not the opposite.

Gamepass has room to grow.

Yes, both GP and Spartacus have room to grow and will grow.

You will needs tons of money to rival that money printing machine. And it wont stop at 50m userbase.

Sony already has that userbase, prints more money than MS and they do it having a great tprofit.

It has the potential to hit 100m users in 8 years.

Being very optimisic their active userbase in consoles is -or this gen could reach- 60M. Add a few more they could get from PS.Add a some PC+mobile only players who still aren't there. I don't see GP reaching 100M subs in 8 years.

Sony instead has a 111M MAU userbase on PS. Even adding some extra subs from PC only or mobile, I don't see them reaching 100M subs in 8 years either but I can see them getting closer since they already are at 50M.

Unlike consoles, Subscription services dont have a ceilings.

Yes, they have a ceiling: the amount of players intereseted on this type of games, and that are on the platforms and countries supported by the subscription.

If MS charges gamepass 15$, and nothing else, they will get $9b a year guarantee money from 50m subscribers. That is 40% of Sony 2020 revenue. MS doesnt have to sell games at all. The more subs the service gains the more money they will gain. Even 100m (hard to achieve) would generate $1.5b a month or $18b. That is more than Xbox revenue in 2020 selling games, 3rd party games, and dlcs.

That is how much money these subscription service make. Phil will be so happy for Nintendo, Sony, and steam to have that service. It gives him tons of users.

That is how much money these subscription service makes in your fantasies using totally unrealistic assumptions and numbers, not in the real world.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Best deal in gaming.

 

[kingfey]

This would be if nobody was using free months or $1 deals, nobody would be buying at cd key stores and everybody would be buying in USA intead of in other countries which have lower prices. These numbers are only fanttasy, the real revenue must be much smaller.

Same thing for ps+, or any subscription.

With Gamepass you don't purchase games, you rent them.

1 year time limit, after that its out of the service. I cant play red dead 2 or gtav from gamepass.

Yes, they will have 48M subs from the start because they already have them.

That is not how it works.

True, prettty likely there wouldn't be a big change because being able to upgrade your Gold months to GPU monhts for $1 is an awesome deal that I asume that almost everyone who had an active Gold sub must have got.

nope. no one is stupid to pay 180$ upfront, unless you have the money. 180$ isnt some lump money that is laying around. people save money for consoles. That money is almost 1/3rd console price.

Yes, the main reason of Sony having around 2X game subs is Sony having around 2X their console userbase, which I assume are there because they console appealing their offerings (catalog and pricing).

and that one will disappear once the new gen starts. other console manufactures wont stand down, and let Sony get a big start. They will try to steal users from Sony. Japan Sony is clear example of that now.

During a year GP barely did grow until they released Halo & Forza Horizon. Let's see what happens this year. I think whenever they include ABK games it will increase, but I think this won't happen until they close the acquisititon, and the upcoming remaining games with Sony marketing deal, if they have the same 'anti Gamepass' clause included in RE Village, won't be in GP until at least 15-16 months after release and this is if Sony doesn't decide to put them on their game subs. But I assume that if it's the case it will only affect a couple of yearly CoDs since pretty much in Summer 2023 once the deal gets closed, all the previous one will have expired.

It did 18m in January 2021. From the new list, we have 7m increase. Gamepass started in 2017. Xbox didnt have any big offering, but still managed to get those numbers. If it can do that much before bethesda and other purchases, Imagine what numbers would be, once bethesda and activsion start making games for gamepass.

As for the clause, that is normal business. Sony had the marketing for RE:Village. Putting it on gamepass would mess up that marketing business.
With $68.7B being spent by MS, none of the publishers would agree to Sony terms anymore. They will want more money from MS, which will happily pay for their games to be in gamepass.

Plus who knows, maybe MS and Sony signed some sort of no aggresion deal to keep CoD and Bungie stuff multiplatform and to don't block each other. We can only speculate.

You dont spent that kind of money to play nice. We know what happened with bethesda. MS wants gamepass. And they wont put COD on PS, as that option wont attract consumers to gamepass.

In fact, botth Sony and MS are working on more acquisitions and at least in Sony's side, so bettween acquisitions and Spartacus things can change a lot this year. If Bloomberg isn't lying again (something they frequently do when talking about Sony) and Sony completes this year the plans they had for the next gen PS Now, other than catalog Gamepass and Spartacus will be pretty similar, with the main difference of -apparently- no downloadable PC games and no 1st party day one games on Sony's side.

Both have chip shortage to face first. Not to mention, other big boys wont settle down. If Sony has capacity to try and buy the big 3, they will get outbid by tencent, google, amazon. MS wont acquire big publisher until the deal is done.

We don't know how much revenue does it make, we only know Plus+Now make almost $4B a year.

$4b is our estimates. Just like you said, different countries have different prices. Unlike MS, Sony has alot of customers around the world.

Prettty likely MS doesn't reveal them because most of them are already inside GPU. But yes, adding Gold as a GP tier outside having Gold embedded on GPU would help to make a more similar, almost 1:1 comparision.

If that was the case, then where is the xbox population? Where is PC population? Because isnt 25m active users.

The service will be the resultt of merging Plus and Now and adding more things on top. If some PS+ subs change to anoher tier they will continue being subscribers, but now will be generating more revenue.

Merging creates new service and new price subscription. Gamepass ultimate is the result of PC+Gold+Xcloud+Gamepass. You will need new people for that service.

No, ~50M+ is tthe subscriptions they will have at the start and will grow from there.
Many players will be interested on getting a subscription to rent hundreds/thousands of games, as we seen in base gamepass.
I think that as happens in gamepass, only the tier with cloud gaming will be locked to a handful of dozen countries, which means that way more players will be able to get this no cloud gaming tier, and also being cheaper than the cloud gaming one would be more appealing for people in countries with streaming.
Plus they are supposed to highly improve their catalog and stuff included (like 'extended demos') and bring it to mobile and smart tvs, which will help grow a bit more.
Plus there will be some Plus subs who will upgrade to other tiers, so their revenue will increase not only with growing their userbase.

They wont. You are saying PS+ are already part of spartacus. Then where are the people who will sub to gamepass competitor? Does that service not exist? You see where I am going.

PS Plus + Now already generate almost $4B/year. If a portion of PS Plus subs move to a more expensive tier, that revenue will increase. Plus with all the new subs who as of now don't have Plus or Now, the revenue will be even higher. Only from subs, not counting here related DLC/MTX/season passes etc.

Gamepass does the same thing. And we arent even adding xbox live gold in to this equation.

MS has no profits from gaming or Gamepass. They just spent $80B on acquisitions and are puting AAA games day one on a subscripion wih 25M subs and pretty likely many millions of them are there for free or paying $1.

Phil Spencer: Xbox Game Pass Is 'Very, Very Sustainable,' Not 'Burning Cash' - IGN

In a new interview, Xbox boss Phil Spencer says that the future is now for the subscription service, saying that it is "very, very sustainable" and that it's not chasing a "pot of gold" in the future.

www.ign.com

And as for the acquisition, that is MS one, not Xbox. Activision has the metaverse, which MS wants to enhance their metaverse programs. Gamepass would just benefit from the IPs, while MS gets metaverse. Same for bethesda purchase. Bethesda had Orion, which MS wanted to enhance their cloud service.

Most games that Sony include on PS Now are old games that already sold all the units they had to sell, so to include games there doesn't cost them sold units and it's super cheaper to sign each 3rd party game.

Same for gamepass. You can buy them. They also sell it on other devices. as for xbox studios, they also sell their games on steam, which generates a profit.

Here is what Epic had to spend on their free games.

Epic spent at least $11.6 million on free games and gained 5 million new users in return

Over the first 10 months of the Epic Games Store.

www.theverge.com

Instead MS puts there many new AAA games, so they lose many related game sales and its way more expensive to put 3rd party games if they are new because of losing sales.

They sell it on steam day1, unlike playstation. Non gamepass users buy the game.

This is the reason of why Sony's approach is profitable and MS not: because it has way cheaper costs to fill the catalog.

Then why is Sony is going in to this business, if its not profitable. MS has more money than Sony, and more infrastructure, Yet Sony can make profit, and not MS?

Even after the ABK acquisittion Sony continues making more gaming revenue than MS, has ~2X the console userbase, has ~2X the game subs, unlike MS their game subs and game division are profitable, has he biggest platform for AAA games, SIE continues breaking gaming history records for any console platform holder and SIE continues having a great growth in most areas where they are.

Activision deal isnt even done yet. Its not part of xbox. And for bethesda, none of their games have hit gamepass day1 yet. So how can they make profit from these studios, when the product isnt even ready.

Absolutely nothing forces them to include their games day one on a game subscription or in PC. Sony is the clear market leader in many areas and MS is sill way behind. It's MS who must do stuff to improve and being compete and reach Sony, not the opposite.

Sony was dominant, because Xbox one fucked it up. X360 and Ps3 were neck to neck, before Xbox one decided to fuck up everything. That is why Sony is in this position. and now they are losing to key publishers, which gave them alot of revenue.

Sony already has that userbase, prints more money than MS and they do it having a great tprofit.

PS+ wont print the same money as gamepass. In USD money, gamepass is 120$ and 180$. That is 2x-3x of ps+ numbers in term of revenue. At USD estimate, gamepass at 25m has the same revenue as 50m/75m ps+ users.
Only advantage ps+ users have is the mtx section.

Being very optimisic their active userbase in consoles is -or this gen could reach- 60M. Add a few more they could get from PS.Add a some PC+mobile only players who still aren't there. I don't see GP reaching 100M subs in 8 years.

Gamepass is on pc. That is another form of users, plus the potential 60m console users. Its achievable. 40m pc users+60m console users.

Sony instead has a 111M MAU userbase on PS. Even adding some extra subs from PC only or mobile, I don't see them reaching 100M subs in 8 years either but I can see them getting closer since they already are at 50M.

That means nothing for this gen. Ps4/xbox one gen is dead. Its ps5/xsx/s gen now. Whatever advantage Sony has will disappear. They need to make more consoles faster, if they want to get those users back.

Yes, they have a ceiling: the amount of players intereseted on this type of games, and that are on the platforms and countries supported by the subscription.

15$ subscription game, which has day1 games in the service, is the most enticing service for gamers. Its potential is unlimited, especially with untapped market like China, South Korea, and India.

That is how much money these subscription service makes in your fantasies using totally unrealistic assumptions and numbers, not in the real world.

Go ask disney, netflix, hulu, amazon prime.

"In the fourth quarter of 2021, Netflix generated total revenue of nearly 7.7 billion U.S. dollars, up from about 6.64 billion in the corresponding quarter of 2020."

 

[Greggy]

xbox live and xbox live Gold are two different things

Who said they were the same thing? You want to play online on PS you get PS+, you want to play online on Xbox you get Gold. Are you drunk?

 

[W11d]

Who said they were the same thing? You want to play online on PS you get PS+, you want to play online on Xbox you get Gold. Are you drunk?

the article you linked is about 100 mil xbox live users. There's no 100 mil xbox live gold subscribers.

 

[Greggy]

the article you linked is about 100 mil xbox live users. There's no 100 mil xbox live gold subscribers.

Apologies if it wasn't clear. I did not mean to say there are 100 million gold subscribers. Actually I do not think that the exact number is known but even if we consider that it's only half of that (which is reasonable given that you can hardly be active on Live without a gold subscription), it puts things in perspective.

 

[MScarpa]

Spartacus is getting a headstart of almost 50M subscribers. I'm sure once they add the PS Now subscribers that don't have PS Plus to that, the number increases a bit as well.

Wait, you're saying Spartacus will have 50mil subs when it debuts?

 

[kyliethicc]

Wait, you're saying Spartacus will have 50mil subs when it debuts?

Yeah "Spartacus" is just PlayStation Plus which has 48 million subs already.

Reports say Sony is killing off PlayStation Now and adding its functions to more expensive versions of PlayStation Plus.

They're gonna be able to just have 1 service going forward - Plus - and continue to report it's almost 50 million subs.

 

[W11d]

Apologies if it wasn't clear. I did not mean to say there are 100 million gold subscribers. Actually I do not think that the exact number is known but even if we consider that it's only half of that (which is reasonable given that you can hardly be active on Live without a gold subscription), it puts things in perspective.

It also counts xbox live users from pc (games from ms store) and mobile. For example when i play Microsoft Solitare Collection on my phone it connects to Xbox Live

 

[MScarpa]

Yeah "Spartacus" is just PlayStation Plus which has 48 million subs already.

Reports say Sony is killing off PlayStation Now and adding its functions to more expensive versions of PlayStation Plus.

They're gonna be able to just have 1 service going forward - Plus - and continue to report it's almost 50 million subs.

So they're renaming it but it's staying ps plus? Sorry I was under the assumption Spartacus was like gamepass?

 

[yurinka]

That is not how it works.

Yes, the currentt PS Plus according to Bloomberg is supposed to be one of the Spartacus tiers.

$4b is our estimates. Just like you said, different countries have different prices. Unlike MS, Sony has alot of customers around the world.

According to Sony quarterly reports the 'network services' of SIE (so PS Plus and PS Now) make almot $1B/quarter, so $4B/year with ~50M subs. It isn't an estimate, it's a fact.

Gamepass achieving this revenue with half the subscribers isn't a estimate, it's a totally unrealistic fantasy.

If that was the case, then where is the xbox population? Where is PC population? Because isnt 25m active users.

We don't know it because MS doesn't share their userbase. As I remember the most recent XBO estimations were somewhere between 50 and 60M. I take 60M.

They wont. You are saying PS+ are already part of spartacus. Then where are the people who will sub to gamepass competitor? Does that service not exist? You see where I am going.

I am reporting what Bloomberg says.

Phil Spencer: Xbox Game Pass Is 'Very, Very Sustainable,' Not 'Burning Cash' - IGN

In a new interview, Xbox boss Phil Spencer says that the future is now for the subscription service, saying that it is "very, very sustainable" and that it's not chasing a "pot of gold" in the future.

www.ign.com

Sustainable doesn't imply it's profitable, or that ever will be profitable.

Then why is Sony is going in to this business, if its not profitable. MS has more money than Sony, and more infrastructure, Yet Sony can make profit, and not MS?

Sony does subscriptions in a way that is profitable. And doesn't want to do it in Microsoft's way because it isn't profitable.

It isn't that hard to understand: if to make a big ass AAA costs $250M and you lose like 80% of its potential game sales revenues because you're almost giving it away including it on a subscription where many people get it for $1/$10/$15 (money split between hundreds of games) day one, then you're losing way over $100M per AAA game.

Sony was dominant, because Xbox one fucked it up. X360 and Ps3 were neck to neck, before Xbox one decided to fuck up everything. That is why Sony is in this position. and now they are losing to key publishers, which gave them alot of revenue.

So is dominant and always has been dominant with the exception of the PS3 generation because they fucked it up with many big mistakes, and it happened at the same time of Nintendo's casual boom with Wii+DS and also at the same time that due to rising cost many 3rd party publishers needed to go multi, so since most were PS exclusive, PS lost many exclusives.

With PS4 and PS5 they avoided to make the mistakes they had with PS3, so are dominant again as they were back in the PS1 and PS2 days.

PS+ wont print the same money as gamepass.

True, PS+ already is printing way more money than Gamepass

 

[kyliethicc]

So they're renaming it but it's staying ps plus? Sorry I was under the assumption Spartacus was like gamepass?

They're not renaming PS Plus. Its being expanded.

 

[MScarpa]

They're not renaming PS Plus. Its being expanded.

So PS Plus with different tiers? My question is, I currently am subscribed to PSNow and PS Plus. Do i get a notification? does my billing change? What are the prices?

 

[Zeroing]

And Sony is offering a discount on PS plus this month so I expect numbers to keep like that or slightly rise.

Also am I the only one who only have ps plus for the discounts of digital games?

 

[kyliethicc]

So PS Plus with different tiers? My question is, I currently am subscribed to PSNow and PS Plus. Do i get a notification? does my billing change? What are the prices?

We'll find out but the assumption is they'll be converting Now subs into Plus subs.

Bloomberg article that leaked everything says there will be 3 tiers to the new version of Plus.

Tier 1 is just normal PS Plus, same as it is now.
Tier 2 is Plus and a library of PS4/5 games to download (sorta like PS Now or the PS Plus Collection.)
Tier 3 is all that and a library of PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP games, offers cloud game streaming (like PS Now,) and PS Store game demos.

You'd probably get converted to Tier 2 / 3 since you have a PS Now sub.

They haven't announced it yet so obviously we'll find out later this year. Article says its coming out in the spring.

 

[MasterCornholio]

We'll find out but the assumption is they'll be converting Now subs into Plus subs.

Bloomberg article that leaked everything says there will be 3 tiers to the new version of Plus.

Tier 1 is just normal PS Plus, same as it is now.
Tier 2 is Plus and a library of PS4/5 games to download (sorta like PS Now or the PS Plus Collection.)
Tier 3 is all that and a library of PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP games, offers cloud game streaming (like PS Now,) and PS Store game demos.

You'd probably get converted to Tier 2 / 3 since you have a PS Now sub.

They haven't announced it yet so obviously we'll find out later this year. Article says its coming out in the spring.

So Spartacus is the new plan for PS+ but with multiple tiers?

Ok I thought Spartacus was the code for the tier that's similar to gamepass.

 

[MScarpa]

So Spartacus is the new plan for PS+ but with multiple tiers?

Ok I thought Spartacus was the code for the tier that's similar to gamepass.

This is what I thought.

 

[MasterCornholio]

This is what I thought.

To translate it to Xbox terms it's like Xbox Live Gold, Xbox Live Ultimate and Xbox Live Ultimate Plus. I honestly don't think it's a bad way for Sony to do this because it looks like each tier will be easily understood.

 

[MScarpa]

We'll find out but the assumption is they'll be converting Now subs into Plus subs.

Bloomberg article that leaked everything says there will be 3 tiers to the new version of Plus.

Tier 1 is just normal PS Plus, same as it is now.
Tier 2 is Plus and a library of PS4/5 games to download (sorta like PS Now or the PS Plus Collection.)
Tier 3 is all that and a library of PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP games, offers cloud game streaming (like PS Now,) and PS Store game demos.

You'd probably get converted to Tier 2 / 3 since you have a PS Now sub.

They haven't announced it yet so obviously we'll find out later this year. Article says its coming out in the spring.

So the majority of people, have PS Plus, those people will have the exact same thing, just a different name. So I don't see how it's not just a name change for most people.

 

[MScarpa]

To translate it to Xbox terms it's like Xbox Live Gold, Xbox Live Ultimate and Xbox Live Ultimate Plus. I honestly don't think it's a bad way for Sony to do this because it looks like each tier will be easily understood.

That makes sense. I get it

 

[Beechos]

Hot damn thats a lot of subs. Its crazy to think its takrn sony so long to get into multiplayer gaas games. Thats where all the money is at.

 

[kingfey]

Yes, the currentt PS Plus according to Bloomberg is supposed to be one of the Spartacus tiers.

you are not understanding it. The new tier would just be PS+, but under different name. like xbox live gold, if it was named gamepass live.

According to Sony quarterly reports the 'network services' of SIE (so PS Plus and PS Now) make almot $1B/quarter, so $4B/year with ~50M subs. It isn't an estimate, it's a fact.

Gamepass achieving this revenue with half the subscribers isn't a estimate, it's a totally unrealistic fantasy.

do you understand what pricing means? You are saying a service which has 120$/180$ cant achieve what PS+ revenue is? like I said before, gamepass pricing puts the same number or even higher than ps+. That is how math works.

If 10 candy pack costs 6$ per pack, while another brand sell 5 packs at 12$ per pack, they will sell the same as the 10 candy pack. but when they can sell their candy at 18$ per pack, they can make more than 10 candy pack sale. That is what gamepass is. 120$ is 2 years of ps+ money, at 1 year. Then there is the ultimate price which is 180$ or 3 years of ps+.

In term of sub revenue, gamepass can match ps+ revenue, or even make more revenue, depending on how much the average gamepass price.

But that is sub revenue. Both services make money from mtx, which you are ignoring it. That is where most of ps+ comes from. with 48m users, it has more spending power, compared to 25m users.

We don't know it because MS doesn't share their userbase. As I remember the most recent XBO estimations were somewhere between 50 and 60M. I take 60M.

That was the dead xbox. This gen is different. They sold 12m already. That is a big start. with this trajectory, and xss they can hit 80m console sold at the end of this gen, or even higher.

I am reporting what Bloomberg says.

then who is going to compete with gamepass? Because that is the service people want to see. if 1st tier is ps+, then where would Spartacus be? Because this service would a new service, that cost more than ps+, and has games like gamepass, not just day1.

Sustainable doesn't imply it's profitable, or that ever will be profitable.

You can make profit, if your business is sustainable. If you cant make your business sustainable, you wont see a profit at all.
Gamepass depends on itself now. That means its bringing money, and pays for its own content.

Sony does subscriptions in a way that is profitable. And doesn't want to do it in Microsoft's way because it isn't profitable.

This is just naïve take.

MS runs Azura, the most successful subscription business. They also run office. They know what they do. Unlike Sony, which has a service that forces people to pay for online mode, not the free ones, but the ones you paid the game for.

They make profit from their services.

It isn't that hard to understand: if to make a big ass AAA costs $250M and you lose like 80% of its potential game sales revenues because you're almost giving it away including it on a subscription where many people get it for $1/$10/$15 (money split between hundreds of games) day one, then you're losing way over $100M per AAA game.

AAA takes 4-6 years to make. If a game cost 250m to make, then MS would need $3b just to make 12 AAA games. If MS takes out $50m from gamepass per month, then they have enough money to pay for 14.4 AAA games in 6 years.
This figure doesnt count the sales those games do, or the money MS gets from xbox 3rd party game/mtx/dlc sales. then there is steam, where they can get $135m at 45$ sale (15 goes to valve), per 3m sales for these 14 games. That is another 7 AAA game funding.

That is what gamepass does to their service.

So is dominant and always has been dominant with the exception of the PS3 generation because they fucked it up with many big mistakes, and it happened at the same time of Nintendo's casual boom with Wii+DS and also at the same time that due to rising cost many 3rd party publishers needed to go multi, so since most were PS exclusive, PS lost many exclusives.

Nintendo are the dominant one currently. They make the most profit. Animal crossing did $2.2b sales, by selling 37m copies in under 2 years. Now they have 100+m switch.

Sony is going to a new gen, and they have 17m ps5 as of now. That not enought to compete with nintendo. Ps4 users would die out soon, once next gen games starts rolling.

With PS4 and PS5 they avoided to make the mistakes they had with PS3, so are dominant again as they were back in the PS1 and PS2 days.

Those mistakes dont exist with xbox now too. They are ready than ever. and they have advantage with pc community of day1 games. They will have fierce competition, especially with Nintendo having 100+m switch.

True, PS+ already is printing way more money than Gamepass

and will be surpassed, once activision deal is done, and bethesda starts dropping their games.


You have understand several key points.
1: Ps+ is like xbox live gold. Its will be tier 1 for Spartacus, like how xbox live gold is tier to gamepass.
2: Old gen doesnt exist now. We are in the new gen era. The fight stage is between ps5 and xsx/s, while nintendo is watching them by sideline. Any previous advantages wont matter now, since you need to bump out those hardwares to gain whatever you had in the last gen.
3:Gamepass is 25m. and will go beyond the sky. As long as Xbox sells xsx/s, and they keep advertising it to pc community, it wont stop at 25m. Ps+ on other hand is fixed on hardware console. It depends on how much ps5 Sony sells, and how many of these ps+ users get ps5.
4:We saw big changes in the 1st 2 year of this gen. MS bought bethesda 1st year. 2nd year, they bought activision. Sony also bought bungie. Both companies have monies to buy big publishers now. There are no more money hating 3rd party. Its publishers that is getting bought.
5: Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, and tencent wont sit down, and let MS and Sony buy everything. They will also open their wallets. This can change the tides of the competitions, depends on how gets bought.
6: MS has more experience in subscription model. They also have the infrastructure and money to sustain it for a long time. Sony doesnt have that luxury.

 

[kyliethicc]

So the majority of people, have PS Plus, those people will have the exact same thing, just a different name. So I don't see how it's not just a name change for most people.

The name won't change lol. Its still just PS Plus.

 

[bushwookie]

We'll find out but the assumption is they'll be converting Now subs into Plus subs.

Bloomberg article that leaked everything says there will be 3 tiers to the new version of Plus.

Tier 1 is just normal PS Plus, same as it is now.
Tier 2 is Plus and a library of PS4/5 games to download (sorta like PS Now or the PS Plus Collection.)
Tier 3 is all that and a library of PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP games, offers cloud game streaming (like PS Now,) and PS Store game demos.

You'd probably get converted to Tier 2 / 3 since you have a PS Now sub.

They haven't announced it yet so obviously we'll find out later this year. Article says its coming out in the spring.

That's interesting. It's not often sarcasm becomes reality so quickly.

Seems as though we're in a situation where due to Sony's most comparable sub service (PS Now) to Gamepass was failing. They're going to simply combine all their PS Now and PS Plus users together and celebrate. What a brilliant strategy.

Sony's really flexing with this move, and showing that brand strength. Most companies couldn't attempt such a move, as their customers would see it for what is and likely go elsewhere.

 

[MScarpa]

The name won't change lol. Its still just PS Plus.

Well how is it Spartacus if it's PS Plus?

 

[bushwookie]

The name won't change lol. Its still just PS Plus.

If that's the case, then why is everyone saying Spartacus will have 50 mil users day one?

Either the name will change, or Spartacus having an immediate userbase of 50m is fud. It can't be both.

 

[MScarpa]

If that's the case, then why is everyone saying Spartacus will have 50 mil users day one?

Either the name will change, or Spartacus having an immediate userbase of 50m is fud. It can't be both.

This is what I'm trying to understand. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[kyliethicc]

Well how is it Spartacus if it's PS Plus?

You realize "Spartacus" is just the Sony internal codename for their planned update to PS Plus, right?

Just read the article.


"Subscription offering would blend PlayStation Now and PS Plus"

"Code-named Spartacus, launch is targeted for next spring"

"When it launches, expected in the spring, the service will merge Sony's two existing subscription plans, PlayStation Plus and PlayStation Now."

"Documents reviewed by Bloomberg suggest that Sony plans to retain the PlayStation Plus branding but phase out PlayStation Now."

PlayStation Plans New Service to Take On Xbox Game Pass

Sony Group Corp.’s PlayStation division is planning a new subscription service to compete with rival Microsoft Corp.’s popular Xbox Game Pass, according to people familiar with Sony’s plans and documents reviewed by Bloomberg.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[kingfey]

Well how is it Spartacus if it's PS Plus?

People are confusing the Spartacus with tons of games, to ps+. Both are different services.

The tier plan is just how MS have their tiers.
Tier 1: Xbox live gold = ps+
Tier 2: Gamepass = Spartacus(upgraded psnow)
Tier 3: Gamepass ultimate = Spartacus + ps+

That is how I see it.

 

[MScarpa]

You realize "Spartacus" is just the Sony internal codename for their planned update to PS Plus, right?

Just read the article.


"Subscription offering would blend PlayStation Now and PS Plus"

"Code-named Spartacus, launch is targeted for next spring"

"When it launches, expected in the spring, the service will merge Sony's two existing subscription plans, PlayStation Plus and PlayStation Now."

"Documents reviewed by Bloomberg suggest that Sony plans to retain the PlayStation Plus branding but phase out PlayStation Now."

PlayStation Plans New Service to Take On Xbox Game Pass

Sony Group Corp.’s PlayStation division is planning a new subscription service to compete with rival Microsoft Corp.’s popular Xbox Game Pass, according to people familiar with Sony’s plans and documents reviewed by Bloomberg.

www.bloomberg.com

So why bring up 50mil subs in the first place if its the same thing?

Gamepass will have 25mil subs when they move over to their codename "Gannicus"

 

[kingfey]

You realize "Spartacus" is just the Sony internal codename for their planned update to PS Plus, right?

Just read the article.


"Subscription offering would blend PlayStation Now and PS Plus"

"Code-named Spartacus, launch is targeted for next spring"

"When it launches, expected in the spring, the service will merge Sony's two existing subscription plans, PlayStation Plus and PlayStation Now."

"Documents reviewed by Bloomberg suggest that Sony plans to retain the PlayStation Plus branding but phase out PlayStation Now."

PlayStation Plans New Service to Take On Xbox Game Pass

Sony Group Corp.’s PlayStation division is planning a new subscription service to compete with rival Microsoft Corp.’s popular Xbox Game Pass, according to people familiar with Sony’s plans and documents reviewed by Bloomberg.

www.bloomberg.com

In a essence its gamepass ultimate (xbox live+gamepass+xcloud).

 

[kyliethicc]

So why bring up 50mil subs in the first place if its the same thing?

Gamepass will have 25mil subs when they move over to their codename "Gannicus"

I didn't. You did.

Wait, you're saying Spartacus will have 50mil subs when it debuts?

lol

 

[MScarpa]

Yeah "Spartacus" is just PlayStation Plus which has 48 million subs already.

Reports say Sony is killing off PlayStation Now and adding its functions to more expensive versions of PlayStation Plus.

They're gonna be able to just have 1 service going forward - Plus - and continue to report it's almost 50 million subs.

?
I didn't bring up 50mil, i was responding to someone else who was. Scroll up, you'll see.

 

[kyliethicc]

?

I responded to your question.

Wait, you're saying Spartacus will have 50mil subs when it debuts?

 

[MScarpa]

I didn't. You did.


lol

Tiago Rodrigues said:
Spartacus is getting a headstart of almost 50M subscribers. I'm sure once they add the PS Now subscribers that don't have PS Plus to that, the number increases a bit as well.

 

[kyliethicc]

Tiago Rodrigues said:
Spartacus is getting a headstart of almost 50M subscribers. I'm sure once they add the PS Now subscribers that don't have PS Plus to that, the number increases a bit as well.

Yeah he's correct. Idk why you're confused.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The 1st Tier of Spartacus will have 50 million subs. Then those subs can move onto the second or third tier depending on what content they want.

Doesn't mean there's going to be 50 million subs for tier 2 or 3 of the service. But everyone who has Plus is technically on tier one of Spartacus.

Doesn't mean it will be called Spartacus though. That's just the code name for it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Tiago Rodrigues said:
Spartacus is getting a headstart of almost 50M subscribers. I'm sure once they add the PS Now subscribers that don't have PS Plus to that, the number increases a bit as well.

Trolling time.

I'm wondering what's going to happen with all the current PSNow subscribers. Will they be rolled into tier 2 or 3 of the service?

 

[MScarpa]

Yeah he's correct. Idk why you're confused.

How is it getting a headstart when it's the same thing? You said it's codename for PS Plus. Whatever man. I don't care but none of what you're saying makes sense.

 

[kyliethicc]

How is it getting a headstart when it's the same thing? You said it's codename for PS Plus. Whatever man. I don't care but none of what you're saying makes sense.

Well my boy, its become clear to me that the ideas Sony are working with are just simply beyond your comprehension.

The 1st Tier of Spartacus will have 50 million subs. Then those subs can move onto the second or third tier depending on what content they want.

Doesn't mean there's going to be 50 million subs for tier 2 or 3 of the service. But everyone who has Plus is technically on tier one of Spartacus.

Doesn't mean it will be called Spartacus though. That's just the code name for it.

Sony will never report numbers just for 1 price point of PlayStation Plus. Its all just PS Plus.

Just like how Microsoft doesn't disclose how many of the 25 million Game Pass subs have regular GP, or GP Ultimate, or GP on PC. Its all counted as 1 service with 1 sub count.

Both will be viewed and discussed as competing services and their sub counts will inevitably be compared.

 

[kingfey]

The 1st Tier of Spartacus will have 50 million subs. Then those subs can move onto the second or third tier depending on what content they want.

Doesn't mean there's going to be 50 million subs for tier 2 or 3 of the service. But everyone who has Plus is technically on tier one of Spartacus.

Doesn't mean it will be called Spartacus though. That's just the code name for it.

wouldn't this be a loss lead service?

unless they increase their subscription fees, I dont see how they can operate with psnow+ps+ model at ps+ price tag.

 

[MScarpa]

Well my boy, its become clear to me that the ideas Sony are working with are just simply beyond your comprehension.


Sony will never report numbers just for 1 price point of PlayStation Plus. Its all just PS Plus.

Just like how Microsoft doesn't disclose how many of the 25 million Game Pass subs have regular GP, or GP Ultimate, or GP on PC. Its all counted as 1 service with 1 sub count.

Both will be viewed and discussed as competing services and their sub counts will inevitably be compared.

My boy? I'm a girl, but hey maybe that's not your thing

 

[kyliethicc]

My boy? I'm a girl, but hey maybe that's not your thing

That's ok son I don't mind.

 

[MScarpa]

That's ok son I don't mind.

Ok Piggy

 

[kingfey]

Well my boy, its become clear to me that the ideas Sony are working with are just simply beyond your comprehension.

We already have an idea of their plan, Since ms did it in the 1st place. No need to for you to get smug about it.

Sony will never report numbers just for 1 price point of PlayStation Plus. Its all just PS Plus.

It wont be regular ps+ price. They will have to increase ps+ price. With the service, they will have Ps+ as standalone as tier 1, or get rid of ps+, and just have the new Spartacus. That option wont sit down with consumers.

Just like how Microsoft doesn't disclose how many of the 25 million Game Pass subs have regular GP, or GP Ultimate, or GP on PC. Its all counted as 1 service with 1 sub count.

Xbox live gold is separate entity. Its not part of normal gamepass. Just part high tier of gamepass ultimate.

Sony will either go with this route, or get rid of ps+, and just rename it Spartacus. again, You will have consumer issues with option.

Both will be viewed and discussed as competing services and their sub counts will inevitably be compared.

nope they wont. Until they have day1 games, or pc version, it wont be counted as competing service.
Not to mention, they will have to increase the price to come close to that.

The idea is great. But combining 2 services has issues. They will need to lay down their tiers, keep ps+, or get rid off.

I am just internet guy here, and Sony knows what they are doing.

 

[yurinka]

you are not understanding it. The new tier would just be PS+, but under different name. like xbox live gold, if it was named gamepass live.

As I remember Bloomberg said they were going to keep the PS + brand but would rename PS Now.

do you understand what pricing means? You are saying a service which has 120$/180$ cant achieve what PS+ revenue is? like I said before, gamepass pricing puts the same number or even higher than ps+. That is how math works.


In term of sub revenue, gamepass can match ps+ revenue, or even make more revenue, depending on how much the average gamepass price.

I know what pricing means, and that on average the GP users aren't making on average 120$/180$ year and that's impossible. Because all the promotions, the cd keys, upgrades from Gold and so on.

They sold 12m already.

So what? PS has 111 MAU. That's over 100M console users who can buy games or subs now, not in an hipothetical end of the generation.

then who is going to compete with gamepass?

Sony game subscriptions, as already are. And getting more subs, revenue and profit.

You can make profit, if your business is sustainable.

Not needed. MS can throw $80B to the garbage bin without expecting to recoup them or to get profit because they afford it since they have way more money. So it's sustainable for them to keep a gaming division not having operating profit during decades.

MS runs Azura, the most successful subscription business.

Azure isn'tt a subscription service, isn't related to gaming at all (it's a tool to manage server clouds) and it isn't the market leader on its area.

AAA takes 4-6 years to make. If a game cost 250m to make, then MS would need $3b just to make 12 AAA games. If MS takes out $50m from gamepass per month, then they have enough money to pay for 14.4 AAA games in 6 years.

Even if that fantasy revenue would be real, which are totally unrealistic, slightly over 2 games per year wouldn't be enough at all for MS (plus obviously this is only the development budget, there's many other costs like marketing, serves, post launch support, taxes etc).

This figure doesnt count the sales those games do, or the money MS gets from xbox 3rd party game/mtx/dlc sales. then there is steam, where they can get $135m at 45$ sale (15 goes to valve), per 3m sales for these 14 games. That is another 7 AAA game funding.

23402 AAA game funding.

Nintendo are the dominant one currently. They make the most profit. Animal crossing did $2.2b sales, by selling 37m copies in under 2 years. Now they have 100+m switch.

No tthey aren't. Sony makes more revenue, has a bigger userbase, they sell more games for their plattform, have more game subs, have more 3rd party support and their exclusives dominate the gottys of the last decade. Sony has less profit because they decide to reinvest more of the money they earn, which results in growth and future bigger revenue and profit. For companies with such huge revenues to have more or less profit can be adjusted with more or less investtments.

Sony is going to a new gen, and they have 17m ps5 as of now. That not enought to compete with nintendo. Ps4 users would die out soon, once next gen games starts rolling.

Sony already is competing and performing better han Nintendo. Sony is the top 2 company in gaming of the world, no Nintendo. PS4 users will move to PS5 as always, the demand is insane and if it isn' destroying all records is because of chips shorage.

and will be surpassed, once activision deal is done, and bethesda starts dropping their games.

This is not what MS said and did for Mojang, Bethesda and ABK.

2: Old gen doesnt exist now. We are in the new gen era.

In the fantasies that you have in your mind, maybe. In the real world tthere are more people playing on thte previous gen consoles than in current gen consoles.

There are no more money hating 3rd party. Its publishers that is getting bought.

3rd party exclusives still exist. They shown today a video of one called Ghostwire Tokyo and a couple of monhts later they will release another one named Forspoken. In a few weeks I think there's oher one called Sifu too. This year (maybe delayed to the next one) there's a small indie called Final Fantasy XVI, you may heard about it.

5: Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, and tencent wont sit down, and let MS and Sony buy everything. They will also open their wallets. This can change the tides of the competitions, depends on how gets bought.

FB may buy some VR studio, Tencent will continue buying. Amazon may buy something but I don't see the other ones buying anything.

6: MS has more experience in subscription model. They also have the infrastructure and money to sustain it for a long time. Sony doesnt have that luxury.

I have to remember that PS Now was released before than Gamepass and that Sony doesn't only has the infrastructure and money, they are also more successful and bigger using it. And MS isn't talented enough to outperform them, so has to keep spending dozens of Billions on acquisitions to see if they can reach Sony. But they don't reach them, because money isn't everything.

 

[T0minator]

I could see in the next 5 years PS5 sales being 90~ million

If they add "Spartacus" to the PS Plus service (starting Spring being at 48 million) it could be up to 75~ million subscribers in 5 years.

Sony's online focused multiplayer games from Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Insomniac, Bungie and London Studios Deviation, Haven, Firewall will be included day 1 on that service.

Single player games will be sold normally to generate revenue as usual