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[Tiago Rodrigues]

If "the best" means flashy and cinematic, but also shallow and repetitive, then I agree.

A game like TLOU2 (the game mentioned in the OP) isn't shallow and repetitive. The game is peak 3rd person shooter in every way. The level design alone allows you to go stealth, to go all-in on the enemies, to go through everything without killing many people, etc...and the game easily adapts according to the level difficulty which is quite rare nowadays. Usually they just make the enemies tougher to kill.

You can play it on easy if you want a 3rd person shooter, lots of ammo, shooting everyone and it feels amazing. You can play it on hard and do it 50/50 between stealth and being noisy or on the hardest difficulties with almost no ammo and needing those stealth moves to do most of the work.

It all works seamlessly and all with the best presentation, graphics, sound design out there.

 

[The artful mincer]

The day I new From Software combat was average was the day I tried to do the Chalice Dungeons.

Once you take away the amazing level design and art direction your left with a basic combat system that becomes a dodge and r1 spam fest.

FROM software Soulsborn games are all time classics but combat is not there strong point.

 

[The artful mincer]

Oh good I see the term cinematic is as meaningless as ever.

 

[Crayon]

The ones I've played are way better than the western aaa average. Last time I tried an assassins' creed game I was literally laughing at how sloppy it was. The sony games are for mass market but the gameplay still seems a cut above the standard for that. When you get to games that really have imo way better gameplay than sony's, they tend to be ones that aren't reaching nearly as large an audience.

 

[RPCGamer]

A game like TLOU2 (the game mentioned in the OP) isn't shallow and repetitive. The game is peak 3rd person shooter in every way. The level design alone allows you to go stealth, to go all-in on the enemies, to go through everything without killing many people, etc...and the game easily adapts according to the level difficulty which is quite rare nowadays. Usually they just make the enemies tougher to kill.

You can play it on easy if you want a 3rd person shooter, lots of ammo, shooting everyone and it feels amazing. You can play it on hard and do it 50/50 between stealth and being noisy or on the hardest difficulties with almost no ammo and needing those stealth moves to do most of the work.

It all works seamlessly and all with the best presentation, graphics, sound design out there.

Do Sony provide you with free knee pads when you visit?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Is this one of those "great gameplay" where the gameplay being refered to is the number of gore-pixels in the half-exploded head of the enemy?

You know, the one where someone comes and shows you "how great the gameplay is" by sharing 15 different gifs showing all the variety of blood splatters the game has.

 

[squidilix]

- The Last of Us Pt 2 / Uncharted 4 is Good
- God of War is fking bad
- Horizon is okay-tier
- Spider-Man pretty generic
- Astro Bot Sound like good plateformer
- Ratchet & Clank : Distracting
- Never playing HellDivers 2
- Returnal is very good

 

[Vick]

Oh good I see the term cinematic is as meaningless as ever.

That became the way to describe those narrative driven game structures.. and excluding their free-roams and metroidvanias it's hard to say the term doesn't suit them.

And it really doesn't help, and why in the previous post I've said that if the entirety of GoW post 2018 was Valhalla mode, if the entirety of TLOU was No Return/Factions, if the entirety of Uncharted 4 was its competitive Multiplayer still played after 8 years, the whole discussion about these games combat would be entirely different even in a place like GAF.

 

[playbignbox]

Honestly the gameplay of Sony games is good but nothing mind blowing, except for their cinematic aspect.

Sony is below studios like From Software, Platinum, Capcom, Nintendo, ID Software, etc.

 

[MujkicHaris]

Maybe the problem is you, not them?

From 2009-2020 they were the overall winner of both critics and users 5 times. 6 if you want to count Death Stranding as a first party game.

GAME OF THE YEAR PICKS BLOG

The Definitive Game of the Year

gotypicks.blogspot.com

Yes, I guess you are right. Awards, critics and even developers... They don't get to influence my core standards.

I want freedom and ambition in games. And PlayStation-developed games post-PS3 ain't it.

 

[Vick]

As for Rockstar, I think they always sucked and still think they do after RDR2. I’d play any PS game above that slog. Will see how RDR holds up once it hits PC at the end of the month

Held up great imo, shooting feels much better than it does in its sequel.

But just the game in general is miles ahead in so many ways. Considerably more mature and better written also, at least when it comes to its freedom of expression and complete absence of forced elements of any kind injected into it.

It's a fucking masterpiece honestly, one of gaming greatest achievements.

 

[Ribi]

Last of Us 2, Horizon, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man?

It's way too early to be this drunk. Ffs it's a Tuesday

 

[bender]

 

[ZehDon]

If by "gameplay/combat" you mean "production values", sure, but If you mean "gameplay/combat" then no.

Horizon bored me to fucking tears, God of War was repetitive beyond logic, TLOU was a worse implementation of Splinter Cell, Uncharted was a drunk version of Gears of War, Spider-Man got old fast and then kept going for thirty hours, Ratchet and Clank is mindless.

I'll give you Gran Turismo, Astro Bot, and Helldivers 2.

 

[Gaiff]

Held up great imo, shooting feels much better than it does in its sequel.

But just the game in general is miles ahead in so many ways. Considerably more mature and better written also, at least when it comes to its freedom of expression and complete absence of forced elements of any kind injected into it.

It's a fucking masterpiece honestly, one of gaming greatest achievements.

I believe you. My brother absolutely loves the first but cannot stand the sequel.

 

[Balducci30]

Last of us 2 in particular has incredible gameplay and combat. It’s the best Sony or naughty dog have ever done imo- people shit on it for the story but that’s where it shines

 

[Radical_3d]

2024 is the year that dwarfs it all. Until now ET, Dead Space 3 or Morbius where top tier in the multi million dollar projects that go kaput, but this year alone we have a new tier with Concord and Joker 2. The world is as rich as it gets but the flops are bigger than ever.
In contrast, on simpler times on GAF you could read lunatic takes of all kind. I love my PS3 and it was indeed very powerful, but some people here thought that some CG renders were real. Same the other way around one generation later, we had people saying that 900p was indistinguishable of 1080p. And even so nothing seems as mental as today’s GAF with people saying that PSSR reconstructs better than a 4090 and that Sony “barely playable movies” Interactive Entertainment has industry leading gameplay.

 

[kyoji]

I agree because they are skill based games that can scale from low entry level to highly expert - just like fighting games are.

Streetfighter in my hands looks vastly different from in the hands of daigo umehara or justin wong.

 

[ArtHands]

This thread makes me feel fortunate that I have exposure beyond those on Playstation console

 

[ProtoByte]

Everyone: The combat systems are cinematic but very shallow

SlimySnake: Posts a cinematic combat gif

Is this one of those "great gameplay" where the gameplay being refered to is the number of gore-pixels in the half-exploded head of the enemy?

You know, the one where someone comes and shows you "how great the gameplay is" by sharing 15 different gifs showing all the variety of blood splatters the game has.

Everybody does this with games they like. It's the easiest way to "show" what they're talking about.

Audio-visuals are cornerstone of the gameolay experience. They inform the player of what their character is doing and how the world is reacting to that in a constant feedback loop, and rewarding them with eye candy when they do something well, hopefully feeling good on the sticks when they do it. I remember a discussion thread on this where some users were posting gifs of RE4 or Sekiro and others to totally destroy the points made in favor of TLOU2, and sorry, but when it comes to showcasing and game feel, it's undeniable that PS Studios has everyone else beat.

Getting into the nitty-gritty often doesn't get as much engagement, and seem not to get through as easily anyway. I can and have talked about the fact that TLOU2's player mechanics almost perfectly suit the characters and environments they inhabit; about how the degree of resource management integrates into the scarcity of the world; how the stealth and combat suit AI behaviors and capabilities, and can be constantly played around with. But some people treat it like I'm speaking Tagalog, and still come away with "sinemadick VeeFXxx!!"

 

[Vick]

If by "gameplay/combat" you mean "production values", sure, but If you mean "gameplay/combat" then no.

Horizon bored me to fucking tears, God of War was repetitive beyond logic, TLOU was a worse implementation of Splinter Cell, Uncharted was a drunk version of Gears of War, Spider-Man got old fast and then kept going for thirty hours, Ratchet and Clank is mindless.

I'll give you Gran Turismo, Astro Bot, and Helldivers 2.

Sorry but just out of curiosity, if a game like God of War is "repetitive beyond logic", how in the actual hell would you describe games you used as positive examples like Gears of War, Gears of War 2 and Gears of War 3 (the only ones I've played and, minus 2, loved) then?

I believe you. My brother absolutely loves the first but cannot stand the sequel.

Your brother sounds tasteful. And I happen to love the sequel, thousands of hours on my Arthur Chapter 2 game file version 1.00 speak for themselves I think. Don't really like everything about it, but love lots of it.

Just a case of RDR simply a much better and consistent product in many, many ways, and one of the very finest games in history. It's very obvious to me RDR2 really "needed the Benz" in the end.

Sony “barely playable movies” Interactive Entertainment has industry leading gameplay combat.

Thread is about combat specifically though. I'm sure you'll disagree either way, but it does make a difference. GoW campaign ≠ Valhalla Mode, TLOU campaign ≠ No Return/Factions, Uncharted 4 campaign ≠ Deathmatch and so on.

 

[Radical_3d]

Thread is about combat specifically though. I'm sure you'll disagree either way, but it does make a difference. GoW campaign ≠ Valhalla Mode, TLOU campaign ≠ No Return/Factions, Uncharted 4 campaign ≠ Deathmatch and so on.

Go play some fucking Vanquish, kid.

 

[MasterDerico]

 

[Vick]

I agree because they are skill based games that can scale from low entry level to highly expert - just like fighting games are.

Streetfighter in my hands looks vastly different from in the hands of daigo umehara or justin wong.

Disagreeing with this post simply means being at fault, for one reason or another.

Go play some fucking Vanquish, kid.

I did, plenty. Hitboxes and visual feedback aside wouldn't consider it to be necessarily better than Resident Evil 6.. which is vastly underrated in this regard and miles ahead what came after, but this is for another time.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

Last of us 2 in particular has incredible gameplay and combat. It’s the best Sony or naughty dog have ever done imo- people shit on it for the story but that’s where it shines

People will always have different tastes, but I honestly don't believe a majority of people who think TLoU 2 has bad gameplay. Seems like people continue to hate on the game for other reasons that are well documented already.I would love for people who say this to tell me what third person shooters have a better gameplay loop because I would sure would love to play them!

 

[Radical_3d]

I did, plenty. Hitboxes and visual feedback aside wouldn't consider it to be necessarily better than Resident Evil 6.. which is vastly underrated in this regard and miles ahead what came after, but this is for another time.

I don’t know if we are serious anymore.

 

[ZehDon]

Sorry but just out of curiosity, if a game like God of War is "repetitive beyond logic", how in the actual hell would you describe games you used as positive examples like Gears of War, Gears of War 2 and Gears of War 3 (the only ones I've played and, minus 2, loved) then?

Firstly, I didn't compare God of War to Gears of War, I compared Uncharted to Gears of War. Secondly, good design is not avoiding repetition, but in masterfully honing it. Halo is a terrific example for this with its "30 seconds of fun". Halo plays the same from the first level to the last level, and yet it's just that good. Why? Because of it's sandbox approach, where everything plays out differently all of the time, keeping the player engaged endlessly because it's never the same twice. The modern God of War's gameplay has basically zero variation. Walking forward masquerading as exploration, rinse and repeat combat encounters repeated for eons, and brain dead puzzles. It sure looks nice, but there's basically zero creativity afforded to the player and it becomes a mindless slog well before the half way point. They had good novelty in the Leviathan Axe, but that's literally it - and they dragged it out for two dozen hours! This kind of stuff might have flown in the PS2 era, but by 2018, it's fucking egregious.
As for painting Gears of War with the same brush even though I didn't, Gears at least has the good measure of not being 30 hours long. It works gimmick levels into its formula, and rolls out a sandbox that affords a degree of creativity, albeit nothing on the same level as Halo.

 

[Vick]

I don’t know if we are serious anymore.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Id say yes, publisher in total vs other publishers. But a generic “3rd party games” would win.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Do Sony provide you with free knee pads when you visit?

It's not weird that i play playstation because i enjoy their games. This is a forum so i thought we are allowed to have discussions about stuff. When i feel like calling them out on their bullshit i also do it. But you do you.

 

[Euler007]

They're just the most constantly fun games to play. A lot of the games are only good to play once though, the driven storylines don't feel as good the next time.

 

[SHA]

They're still different from 3rd party games, they also have better factors, exclusives don't replace them.

 

[Griffon]

 

[Codes 208]

I highly disagree. On top if that, the one peak example of amazing god tier gaming theyve made, they continue to pretend doesnt exist (yes im talking about bloofborne)

Astro bot is good, comparable to mario even, but I’d sooner take the latter over games like modern GoW, TLoU, horizon or days gone

 

[Vick]

Firstly, I didn't compare God of War to Gears of War, I compared Uncharted to Gears of War. Secondly, good design is not avoiding repetition, but in masterfully honing it. Halo is a terrific example for this with its "30 seconds of fun". Halo plays the same from the first level to the last level, and yet it's just that good. Why? Because of it's sandbox approach, where everything plays out differently all of the time, keeping the player engaged endlessly because it's never the same twice. The modern God of War's gameplay has basically zero variation. Walking forward masquerading as exploration, rinse and repeat combat encounters repeated for eons, and brain dead puzzles. It sure looks nice, but there's basically zero creativity afforded to the player and it becomes a mindless slog well before the half way point. They had good novelty in the Leviathan Axe, but that's literally it - and they dragged it out for two dozen hours! This kind of stuff might have flown in the PS2 era, but by 2018, it's fucking egregious.
As for painting Gears of War with the same brush even though I didn't, Gears at least has the good measure of not being 30 hours long. It works gimmick levels into its formula, and rolls out a sandbox that affords a degree of creativity, albeit nothing on the same level as Halo.

Eh... I'd say let's just agree to disagree then, because to me this post honestly reads as nonsensical rambling from start to finish.

The variety of approach, agency, creativity, and outcome at any given moment during shootouts/encounters in Uncharted 4 or Lost Legacy so drastically exceeds anything in the first three Gears of War games I don’t know how a possible comparison could be even outlined.
In this regard Gears of War/2/3 is an even lesser game than Drake’s Fortune, which is mostly a pure arcade-style TPS compared to the sandbox offerings of Uncharted 4 and LL.. at least DF offered some verticality, actually fun blindfire and more competent AI.
The Gears games I've played excelled at shooting feel, satisfying reload mechanic, precision cover (compared to DF) and the genuine fun on-rails shooters can provide.

The God of War point I won’t even touch on. We are talking about combat here, and saying the game offers zero creativity simply makes any further discussion pointless.

 

[angrod14]

Slayin' mofos with Abby is PEAK gaming and nothing comes close.

 

[Schmendrick]

Hit and miss.
Definitely not industry leading for the most part.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Fuck no…..

I counter your counter with this counter.

 

[anothertech]

Stellar blade and Wukong should also be on that list.

 

[Vick]

It's not weird that i play playstation because i enjoy their games.

This is always funny. "Yeah but you're a PlayStation fan"

No shit, usually loving their games makes me a fan indeed.

It's not weird in the same exact way most of the complaints come from people whose experience with these games is limited to YouTube videos or disingenuous comments mistaken for genuine criticism.

This is literally how it feels to read most fraudlent "connoisseurs" opinions on these games:

Resident Evil 2 Remake is the most basic piece of shit ever. You can only walk on rails and aim (using the worst aiming system ever concieved) and shoot with awful mechanics borrowed from two generations prior, and there’s literally nothing else you can do as a player in terms of actual mechanics. There's comically bullet sponges enemies everywere, the worst idea ever implemented in a game which is that unkillable bald wax-made hulk wannabe who can only follow you to.. punch you? Ahahaha. Boring as fuck braindead puzzles all while confined in the most strict environments ever seen, with absolutely zero physics and interactivity whatsoever, assets recycled from past games, and a story/narrative which is not only worst than the original which was the equivalent of a Bollywood B movie, and less competently shoot and acted than literally any direct-to-video horror, but porn parodies even! Should have stayed in the nineties. 3/10

Gears of War is the most retarded video game series ever made. All you do is walk on rails and take cover, killing braindead enemies who don't make any rational sense and only serve as slight moving targets, all while doing literally nothing else in the entire fucking game. The worst character desing ever seen by mankind, super dull environments which are literal corridors and the worst boss battles and final bosses ever put into a game complete the picture. For smooth brains only. 2/10

Max Payne 3 is not only an insult to the past games, but to the very concept of videogames. You literally walk forward and nothing else, in the most strict level design ever concieved so limited David Cage's movies are open worlds in comparison, there's annoying as fuck neverending unskippable cutscene literally every fucking single second of play, shooting mechanics actually suck but trick players into thinking they're cool by simply abusing the ancient slow-mo concept Matrix style, AI sucks balls, no enemy variety whatsoever, Max just turned into a worthless old fart who had noting to do with the original. Embarassing. 1/10

The funny thing is, despite loving the games above most of what I've written is arguably factual.. what you usually stumble across in Threads like these concerning PS games most of the time couldn't be any further from being true.

 

[ZehDon]

Eh... I'd say let's just agree to disagree then, because to me this post honestly reads as nonsensical rambling from start to finish...

"Let's agree to disagree but not until I insult you and post another paragraph so I have the last word."

Cool.

 

[brenobnfm]

They can't hold a candle to Japanese games

 

[Represent.]

They can't hold a candle to Japanese games

Japanese games have the worst combat.

The west and now even China have lapped them.

They are too flashy and rely too much on flash (super over the top fast paced anime style action) over substance.

 

[RaduN]

Japanese games have the worst combat.

The west and now even China have lapped them.

They are too flashy and rely too much on flash (super over the top fast paced anime style action) over substance.

My.... fucking ...god

 

[Porcile]

I have no idea about 3rd person shooters outside of OG Resident Evil 4 because it's probably the only one I have played in 20 years but character actions combat and gameplay systems have massively degraded over the last 10-15 years. What is "good" now is so simplified and superficial compared to what Japanese Devs were doing in the past, for example Ninja Gaiden Black and Devi May Cry 3.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

From Soft, Capcom for action, SE and Atlus for JRPGs, Nintendo, Team Cherry, Moon Studios and Ubisoft for platformers. Sony for cinematic flair.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This thread makes me feel fortunate that I have exposure beyond those on Playstation console

What exposure is a playstation only owner missing out on that you feel so fortunate about?

 

[Senua]

They have tight gameplay coupled with deep stories and people love that.. only LOSERS (literally) who fault this and try to paint it as only "cinamatic" or "shallow"

PS Studios are literally the gaming highest of the high ends!

I got douche chills

 

[Ironman_Bad]

There is not another action adventure game in existence with better gameplay than The Last of Us 2 and that really has some panties in a bunch here

 

[Ironman_Bad]

They can't hold a candle to Japanese games

It's not 2003 anymore