Revisiting the state of Playstation Studios in 2025 - Live service damage
- Thread starter LavitzSlambert
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
wtf is icon?
Icon-Era. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. You must be cautious.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I always thought this was just some nickname for resetera. I didn't realize there was yet another place to post on games.
I like it here because I can tell someone their opinion is retarded without worry of ban.
All other places are irrelevant.
Icon Era is completely insane, it's like a forum of Sony cultists
Say what you will about Reset, or this place, or Reddit, or Twitter, at least there are others to call you out when your mouth breathing becomes too loud on there. on Icon Era, the only others are people who also are also high on the smell of your farts
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
That last sentence and my tag uh oh…
Topher
Identifies as young
I'm talking about Sony's control over SIE and its leadership
Roman Empire
Member
Most telling how the public perceived the sequel. It was a weaker game and less focused than GoW 2018 by a significant margin. I didn't even bother with ng+ with Ragnarok.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
How are Days Gone and Horizon "multi genre"? They're action games.
Anyway here is a breakdown of Sony first party:
Anyway here is a breakdown of Sony first party:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think they mean that there are/were multiplayer plans. Using "genres" for single-player / multi-player.
I know, weird considering how we always known "genres" in gaming as. Then again, GaaS can be considered a genre with multiple types of genre games.
Genrecetion.
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nial
Member
You've already been seeing that since 2023. Sony Group was deep managing SIE in the entirety of 2024, so Marathon bombing would be a major problem for Bungie and not SIE (which, again, has given Bungle complete control over its production as per the acquisition's clause), which has had a recent management shake-up.
Topher
Identifies as young
Didn't I read where SIE changed that up though since Bungie wasn't performing? Wasn't it part of the acquisition clause that this would happen if Bungie didn't hit certain targets?
Sony Details Bungie Restructuring As Large Portions Move To SIE
While there is not a “takeover” of Bungie by Sony right now, there are large chunks being carved out of the studio that are moving under SIE
www.forbes.com
nial
Member
Bungie itself was restructuring and SIE decided to hold an internal review to determine which internal functions at Bungie could be moved to SIE; only one of the several incubation projects (Gummy Bears) was salvaged.Didn't I read where SIE changed that up though since Bungie wasn't performing? Wasn't it part of the acquisition clause that this would happen if Bungie didn't hit certain targets?
Sony Details Bungie Restructuring As Large Portions Move To SIE
While there is not a “takeover” of Bungie by Sony right now, there are large chunks being carved out of the studio that are moving under SIE
The article actually states that a full takeover of Bungie is yet to happen, because they first need to launch its major game, Marathon.
Topher
Identifies as young
I don't know man. If shit goes further south for Bungie I just have a hard time not seeing how it doesn't blow back on SIE leadership, specifically Herman Hulst. We will see.
nial
Member
And what does happen? Hideaki Nishino is fired and Hiroki Totoki is sent back ONCE AGAIN to fire another 900 employees?
I think people wish for this to be the case, but it's highly unlikely as he didn't have control of them until 11 months ago, and even then under the same acquisition clause of SIE not messing up with Bungie's management. If anything, the likes of Hiroki Totoki and Kenichiro Yoshida were actually involved on the acquisition of Bungie, as was the rest of the executive management of SIE at the time, which looked like this:
Notice how most of them are not at SIE anymore? Lin Tao even moved to being the CFO of Sony Group.
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Topher
Identifies as young
And what does happen? Hideaki Nishino is fired and Hiroki Totoki is sent back ONCE AGAIN to fire another 900 employees?
I think people wish for this to be the case, but it's highly unlikely as he didn't have control of them until 11 months ago, and even then under the same acquisition clause of SIE not messing up with Bungie's management. If anything, the likes of Hiroki Totoki and Kenichiro Yoshida were actually involved on the acquisition of Bungie, as was the rest of the executive management of SIE at the time, which looked like this:
Notice how most of them are not at SIE anymore? Lin Tao even moved to being the CFO of Sony Group.
Eh....just saying I want changes my man. Maybe this ain't the way then. It's fine.
nial
Member
Oh, I want them as well. Can't wait for the Bungie leadership to fuck off if this shit ends up bombing.
Fabieter
Member
Current leadership is all about short term term gains so I completely agree.
LavitzSlambert
Member
Do we have confirmation of all those? Like Intergalactic being a 2027 release, I don't think I was able to find an announcement of that. If these are official or confirmed by a reliable source, I'll update the OP. Thanks for the mentions and details!
Note that I did mention Dark Outlaw Games and TeamLFG, I just omitted those and Team Asobi from the upcoming section entirely since they are either new additions where the final product is a few years away or literally just released a game so wouldn't expect another soon. My focus here is skewed near term, during the PS5's presumed lifetime and through conclusion of Sony's current strategic plan.
bender
What time is it?
Reboot Ape Escape you cowards!
nial
Member
I 100% expect it to happen at some point when looking at the BIG Ape Escape shilling in Astro Bot.
Insanemaelstrom
Member
Disagree. Public word of mouth of Ragnarok has been pretty great. It has also been selling better than god of war 2018. (Even though I personally prefer 2018)
I can agree with the story elements, it was more disjointed than the perfection that was god of war 2018. They really should have stuck with making 3 games instead of last minute mixing of 2 .
Gameplay wise, Ragnarok is better, imo. Especially the combat
NickFire
Member
Surprised by the show user score. Yeah it's the same game as every year pretty much. And no pro enhancements which is pretty sorry since first party. But you can enjoy dd without really spending (much anyway lol but seriously you can legit nms and have fun). And being able to compete with free cards and packs is nice change of pace from madden and 2k.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Honestly, based on that first slide and where we are today. Sony is doing fine by what they laid out. Bungie is a mess(has been since before the acquisition), and Bluepoint wasting years on a live service game is a fireable offense for whoever approved it. Aside from that Media Molecule better be working on a banger because my god they've had a long leash.
The biggest problem with Sony is they just don't have enough studios to work at the pace they're working. My guess is they were banking on 1 or 2 of those live service games to be a cash cow to sustain the slowed release cadence after they shut down a bunch of studios, but that hasn't exactly come to fruition yet, and every year, their odds get worse.
All those studios they shut down could have helped bridge the gap between their 5-7 year AAA cycles.
The biggest problem with Sony is they just don't have enough studios to work at the pace they're working. My guess is they were banking on 1 or 2 of those live service games to be a cash cow to sustain the slowed release cadence after they shut down a bunch of studios, but that hasn't exactly come to fruition yet, and every year, their odds get worse.
All those studios they shut down could have helped bridge the gap between their 5-7 year AAA cycles.
This was when I decided I was completely done with pre-release previews/coverage of games. All those idiots in Cyberpunk 2027 edition gaming chairs selling out to hype up this game as the greatest thing ever made pissed me off. Sony doesn't get a pass for taking the game off the store after the fact. They certified it to begin with.
nial
Member
I honestly have trouble understanding how people loved the PS1 (and PS2 to some extent) if they only care about Sony's internal output, and not even its great externally-developed games like Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade.
PS1 has one of the best first-party libraries ever, yet 75% of those games come from studios that Sony didn't own.
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Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
wall-o-text, tl;dr at the bottom:
I think for the PS1 - especially early on - it was a function of Sony not really having a really good first party stable. But the PS2 is very good example of your point. That console was heavily pushed by 3rd party games.
With both of those though, there really weren't good options outside of the Playstation. With the PS1, your alternatives were the N64 where you had to deal with the technical and monetary cost of cartridges, and the Sega Saturn which suffered from Sega dropping the ball hard with the release.
The PS2 was just an unstoppable behemoth that - if you wanted to sell your games - it had to be on there. The Dreamcast was a good system that unfortunately followed the Saturn and Sega shooting themselves in both feet, and the Gamecube was Nintendo taking a half step towards the future. But the PS2 was unstoppable. Xbox not really noteworthy at this time.
To be honest, things haven't changed that much. Nintendo is still doing their own thing and Playstation's other primary competitor is shooting themselves in the foot. The biggest difference is we have more real time visibility into all that and forums like this where we can form tribes and fight with each other.
tl;dr:
But you're right, 3rd party is still huge and Sony is still benefiting from them. But the player base is widely scattered right now and Playstation isn't home to a large majority of that 3rd party player base anymore, which is why Sony needs to step up their internal offerings.
Little Chicken
Member
Take away everything pre-PS5 on that list and it's pretty pathetic.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Obviously, this live game push has been a disaster. I suspect Marathon flopping and Fairgame getting the axe will be the final straw, Sony will change course. They'll still invest in live games but it will be a much more natural and reasonable approach, like putting modes in popular games that people like similar to what they should have done with Factions 2 and keeping UC4's multiplayer alive (and maybe even releasing it as a free mode like Halo Shitfinite).
saintjules
Member
IconEra comprises up of Ex-Gaf members that were banned on here.
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PurePlatinum
Member
The launch and first two years of PS5 were really, really good. Maybe the strongest opening volley on a PS console in terms of first party output.
Then 2023/2024 happened. 2025 is pretty barren too minus Yotei...considering that Death Stranding is a 2nd party game.
Then 2023/2024 happened. 2025 is pretty barren too minus Yotei...considering that Death Stranding is a 2nd party game.
Perrott
Member
Yeah, it was Jason Schreier who reported that Intergalatic is not coming out next year, making 2027 the most logical next assumpting, as it would make for a seven-year development cycle, pretty reasonable for an all-new AAA IP these days.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Honestly impressed with your breakdown here. Without looking at this in detail I was thinking there was more in the pipeline. Didn't Naughty Dog confirm that they are working on 2 projects? I'm guessing Intergalactic is closer. Rumors I've heard say the other game might be a new Uncharted game. I know this is mainly about first party stuff, but Sony has been able to fill some of the gap with some strong 3rd party offerings. Stellar Blade recently and Death Stranding 2 come to mind. So it's not just remasters really. I do seem to remember Sony saying that no new first party releases until 2025...I wonder if they were referring to just Marathon.Let's talk about the state of Playstation Studios, ahead of Sony's upcoming FY25 business segment presentation scheduled for the end of this month. First off, let's take a look at recent history. I went back to last year's presentation and looked at the metacritic scores (reviewer and user) most recent original game each studio released. When you view these in the context of Sony's business segments and how they view their development teams, it paints a striking picture of what most on GAF already know.
Article: 
Single Player Narrative Focus
- Firesprite - Horizon: Call of the Mountain (2023) 79 / 7.3
- Housemarque - Returnal (2021) 86 / 7.4
- Insomniac Games - Spiderman 2 (2023) 90 / 8.7
- Naughty Dog - The Last of Us Part II (2020) 93 / 5.8
- Santa Monica Studio - God of War: Ragnarok (2022) 94 / 8.2
- Sucker Punch - Ghost of Tsushima (2020) 83 / 9.2
- Team ASOBI - Astro Bot (2024) 94 / 9.2
Partner Studios
- Bluepoint - Demons Souls (2020) 92 / 8.4
- Nixxes - N/A, PC ports
- Valkyrie Entertainment - N/A, most recently supported Concorde and God of War: Ragnarok
Evolving and Multi-Genre
- Bend Studio - Days Gone (2019) 71 / 8.5
- Guerrilla Games - Horizon Forbidden West (2022) 88 / 8.0
- Media Molecule - Dreams (2020) 89 / 8.6
- Polyphony Digital - Gran Turismo 7 (2022) 87 / 2.5
Live Service Focus
- Bungie - Destiny 2 (2017) 85 / 5.1
Firewalk(closed) - Concord (2024) 62 / 1.7- Haven - TBD (Fairgame$)
Neon Koi(closed) - N/A- San Diego Studio - MLB The Show 25 (2025) 83 / 5.2
Services is suffering immensely with the closure of 2 studios, and major changes at the others. Marathon is at risk to fail (amongst other legal issues at Bungie), Jade Raymond just left Haven which is not boding well for Fairgame$, which leaves San Diego Studio, and two new additions (Dark Outlaw Games and TeamLFG) have no chance of significant output any time soon.
This is concerning, because according to Sony's own three year strategic plan, the growth they are looking for is supposed to come from the live service segment, subscriptions, and tie-ins of existing franchises in other forms of media. Playstation is dropping the ball here compared to Sony's other business segments, and it's going to take time to correct course both in results, and also strategy. That is time Sony doesn't have, since the failures did not just underperform, they completely flopped altogether and future prospects are no longer as appealing as when they first made this strategic plan.
So what does this mean for Playstation, and the rest of us who are hoping for a turnaround within the PS5 generation? Let's look at the upcoming release schedule, excluding studios who just released a large game within the last 2 to 3 years.
Single Player Narrative Focus
- Firesprite - Project Heartbreak
- Housemarque - Saros
- Insomniac Games - Wolverine
- Naughty Dog - Intergalactic
- Santa Monica Studio - Unknown
- Sucker Punch - Ghost of Yotei
Partner Studios
- Bluepoint - Unknown original IP
- Nixxes - More PC ports
- Valkyrie Entertainment - Uknown
Evolving and Multi-Genre
- Bend Studio - Uknown, rumored multiplayer game
- Guerrilla Games - Uknown, rumors of online Horizon game
- Media Molecule - Uknown
- Polyphony Digital - Gran Turismo 8
Live Service Focus
- Bungie - Marathon
- Haven - Fairgame$
- San Diego Studio - MLB The Show 26
Ghost of Yotei is imminent, Saros is 2026, we don't know about Intergalactic and Wolverine hasn't even been seen. Marathon and Fairgames$ are not looking promising. We are years away from basically everything else except maybe for Bluepoint's original game. This lineup IS the cavalry, and we probably are not seeing many surprised from Playstation first party until late 2026 or 2027 at the earliest. We are approaching cross-gen territory, or an extended PS5 generation that will be extremely back heavy when it comes to first party releases. People wonders why Sony is pushing these unnecessary remakes so hard, it's because of this huge gaffe in expectations.
There is some silver lining in that third parties are not overshadowed and smaller games like Expedition 33 are getting the attention they deserve. We can also look to Sony's partnerships and more "second party" games like Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade, but when it comes to the AAA releases Playstation fans have come to expect, there is no getting around the immense damage in Sony's pipeline caused by the failed shift to live service games. I expect more PC ports, remakes/remasters, and other "quick win" initiatives to fill in the gaps of revenue left by Playstation live services missteps. Many will view this as Jim Ryan's legacy, and the damage caused by his management team is going to take a long time to repair.
Edit: I also want to point out explicitly, since I didn't think I needed to above, that this shows a clear commitment to single player games, in contrast to criticisms I see on GAF frequently. Yes, Sony has been focusing on live service more, but they are certainly not abandoning their core single player fanbase. It just seems like that due to the release cadence and all of these "quick wins" that are being churned out as supplemental income to control damage done by the live service flops and to tie into the movies/shows. We got so used to a deluge of Sony's big hits, but when you look back you'll see we got several entries in their biggest franchises from 2020 to 2022.
Super Lemon Drop
Gold Member
I just got caught up on the Marathon drama and hooo boy! lol
LavitzSlambert
Member
I did not include every single thing in development, just the next closest release. So you're not wrong about more being in the works, but we are a ways out most likely. I am going to make a couple updates based on Perrott's post too.
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
I need to sell my god damn ps5. Been wanting to for over two weeks, but haven't done it yet. Price increase on everything, releases fuckall and we're seeing more n more titles dropping to 540-720p or don't even have a 60fps version of the game. Shit's unacceptable in 2025.
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MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
The biggest problem with the gaas failure is that this is basically a wasted generation at this point. The best case scenario with a lot of these studios is cross-gen games given how long development timelines are. We're going into Year 5 of the generation, we'll be at the PS6 by the time the studios have new games ready for release after the pivot.
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laynelane
Member
I stopped taking reviews seriously back when a dude was fired for scoring Kane and Lynch 2 too low. This was in 2007, iirc. Nothing over the years has given me cause to change that stance. Whether it's the Cyberpunk fiasco or the more recent "return to form" catch phrase in every review for 'acceptable' games - reviews from gaming media have been unreliable for years now.
LavitzSlambert
Member
It will certainly be a back-loaded generation, and not as nearly packed as it would be given the GAAS push. I wouldn't call it a failure or wasted generation though, let's see how Saros, Intergalactic, and Santa Monica's games turn out first.
__SteakDeck__
Member
Icon Era can be annoying. They're pro PS, but they do shit on PS, sometimes too much. Every time there's a bad SOP they shit on it. They also hate PS's focus GAAS, they also also hate Hermen Hulst.
__SteakDeck__
Member
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Did you just quote me a listed a bunch of games going back to 2013.....
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
They also bring their games to Pc which is pretty great
I don't think this is actually the case UNLESS they were instructed to pause development on their original project in order to work on live service.
I know they're not a huge studio but I'm pretty confident that they've been working on more than one game since Demon's Souls. It would be crazy if they also didn't have another remaster/remake in the pipeline as well. Probably not as much manpower needed for those.