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[Ironman_Bad]

Maybe if you're a kid or casual who finds the peak of gaming fucking JUMPING

TLOU 2 is peak gaming...I was referring to the "fun" games he was talking about

 

[fart town usa]

No company is “always the best” at every single thing, but the counter to this thread is always listing some developer as if they too don’t have variability and pros/cons.

In aggregate though Sony first party gameplay is of extremely high quality and polish

Sony gameplay is largely lowest common denominator. The only recent game I can think of that excelled is the online in UC4 and overall combat options in TLOUII. Even PS3 was home to some great games with mediocre gameplay. Only thing Sony has improved is their motion capture studio.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony gameplay is largely lowest common denominator. The only recent game I can think of that excelled is the online in UC4 and overall combat options in TLOUII. Even PS3 was home to some great games with mediocre gameplay. Only thing Sony has improved is their motion capture studio.

 

[Vick]

I dunno it's a bit vague by definition and I don't like how it's throw around as a pejorative at some studios but not others despite having very similar games.

E.g. the resident evil and final fantasy series are very similar to a lot of Sony first party studios. High production values, cutscenes, lots of dialogue very story driven but they almost never get that label.

I think story or narrative driven is a better term to describe them

I agree, but there is still a difference I feel should be worth outlining between something like Uncharted 4 and God of War 2018 for example.
Both are linear games, both are "cinematic", both have superb mechanics (even though GoW offers much, much more for dedicated players willing to learn and master it), but one is an old-school, competent video game with genuine discovery, exploration, a learning curve, and meaningful and transformative progression, the other is almost an interactive movie for huge chunks of it.

Are they both "narrative driven games"? Technically yes, but they’re such drastically different experiences for long stretches that lumping the two in the same category feels simply wrong. I feel "cinematic" works and suits Uncharted 4, but not GoW.

Ragnarok, on the other hand, is an extremely bizzarre case. At times it can be an absolutely S-Tier game, I find the whole Crater area to be legit pinnacle videogames, but it unfortunately borrowed too much from ND in the main campaign, a choice I hated with burning passion, without possessing the talent to make limited and linear sections feel bearable due to visual feedback, pacing and high quality performances and whatnot. This extreme imbalance made it a Frankenstein of a game I feel no desire to replay, because if it's true I consider the Crater to be peak gaming, Ironwood is the literal exact opposite and something I would never, ever go through again.

As for Resident Evil games being similar, well it depends. Except for the linear ones like RE5 or RE6 or RE3R, not really similar to ND games as most have hub-like structures and a Metroidvania progression for most of the game, akin more to GoW.

Maybe if you're a kid or casual who finds the peak of gaming fucking JUMPING

To some, peak gaming is button mashing in memorized order making flashy numbers appear on screen while your enemy juggles in the air.

To others it's Mario/AstroBot kind of games instead, many consider Souls games to be it. What is it to you?

 

[nikolino840]

More then larian?

 

[Crayon]

Stellar blade as a very good gameplay especially the combat are superb. Sony help Shift up in the development of the game so technically they are like a Sony studio production.

I wouldn't say superb, but more than competent and shits all over most western aaa's.

Importantly though, I think god of war's combat is equally good in concept and execution. They really surprised me on that because I just don't expect too much from blockbuster games in that department. So that's sayin something.

For reference on where I am- Neither of those systems are better than monster hunter or ff7. While assasin's creed or witcher are laughable in comparison.

 

[Rocinante618]

FromSoft games do not have good combat, they have good combat encounters which is a different thing. In fact those games are extremely janky with limited mechanics. People love them for other reasons but combat mechanics is something this series has issues with

Same with MonsterHunter and RE - why are these games listed as top tier combat? They are not.

Zelda has never had good combat either, and it’s non existent in Mario.

My comment wasn’t for combat only, it was for gameplay driven games.

I don’t get how you couldn’t get this as I have literally written Animal Well & Celeste as examples, which do not have combat but really tight gameplay or experimentation as gameplay.

 

[The artful mincer]

I agree, but there is still a difference I feel should be worth outlining between something like Uncharted 4 and God of War 2018 for example.
Both are linear games, both are "cinematic", both have superb mechanics (even though GoW offers much, much more for dedicated players willing to learn and master it), but one is an old-school, competent video game with genuine discovery, exploration, a learning curve, and meaningful and transformative progression, the other is almost an interactive movie for huge chunks of it.

Are they both "narrative driven games"? Technically yes, but they’re such drastically different experiences for long stretches that lumping the two in the same category feels simply wrong. I feel "cinematic" works and suits Uncharted 4, but not GoW.

Ragnarok, on the other hand, is an extremely bizzarre case. At times it can be an absolutely S-Tier game, I find the whole Crater area to be legit pinnacle videogames, but it unfortunately borrowed too much from ND in the main campaign, a choice I hated with burning passion, without possessing the talent to make limited and linear sections feel bearable due to visual feedback, pacing and high quality performances and whatnot. This extreme imbalance made it a Frankenstein of a game I feel no desire to replay, because if it's true I consider the Crater to be peak gaming, Ironwood is the literal exact opposite and something I would never, ever go through again.

As for Resident Evil games being similar, well it depends. Except for the linear ones like RE5 or RE6 or RE3R, not really similar to ND games as most have hub-like structures and a Metroidvania progression for most of the game, akin more to GoW.


To some, peak gaming is button mashing in memorized order making flashy numbers appear on screen while your enemy juggles in the air.

To others it's Mario/AstroBot kind of games instead, many consider Souls games to be it. What is it to you?

To be fair Uncharted 4 does become an interactive film in parts of the game. But that's the exception not the rule and likely a result of troubled development.

I think the infamous Ironwood section drags mainly because we control Atreus for far too long. There's alot of combat in that section but Atreus is Soooooo much less satisfying than Kratos to fight with.

If we had control of Kratos for that section I think it would have got a lot less hate. It had a cool Boss fight at the end though!

 

[yogaflame]

I wouldn't say superb, but more than competent and shits all over most western aaa's.

Importantly though, I think god of war's combat is equally good in concept and execution. They really surprised me on that because I just don't expect too much from blockbuster games in that department. So that's sayin something.

For reference on where I am- Neither of those systems are better than monster hunter or ff7. While assasin's creed or witcher are laughable in comparison.

I loved how Stellar blade made the combat enjoyable and challenging. It is like a hybrid combat system; Sekiro and Soul game with a mix of devil may cry and Bayonetta. Not as tough as soul game but still challenging and enjoyable.

About God of war. I agree, but for me the God of war 1-3 are the best and most challenging and enjoyable.

 

[fart town usa]

It is what it is.

To be clear, I don't think Sony makes terrible games, far from it. Most of their games are LCD though, thats not a controversial statement. LCD is never going to be the best because by its nature, its going to be a relatively shallow and approachable experience. Most things are LCD, I like LCD games, movies, etc. I'm not saying it's inherently bad.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It is what it is.

To be clear, I don't think Sony makes terrible games, far from it. Most of their games are LCD though, thats not a controversial statement. LCD is never going to be the best because by its nature, its going to be a relatively shallow and approachable experience. Most things are LCD, I like LCD games, movies, etc. I'm not saying it's inherently bad.

what Sony games have is scalability, those titles have deep mechanics that can be made more challenging, there’s nothing shallow about GoW, Returnal, TLOU, etc

Many of their games require far more dexterity than others that get put on a pedestal

 

[PJX]

Looks like a perfectly stable and mature individual with plenty to offer in a debate.

Maybe the Hellblade 2 third-person cinematic story-driven game previously mentioned in the Thread wasn’t the best example. Should have gone with other notable Microsoft’s exclusive games featuring some form of third person combat, like.. like..
Gears 5 I guess, if only I hadn’t already analyzed and compared the series with Uncharted in the previous pages.



An enviable taste as well. Can’t really wait to dive into this promising discussion.

Ok you learned how to search someone's history. Want a cookie?

Point was how is he going to say combat isn't gameplay?

Is combat not a major aspect of gameplay for majority of games? Yes or no?

 

[balls of snow]

I love my sony cinematic games but no.

I couldnt get through Tsushima (gonna try again later next year before Yotei comes out) because a year prior I was deflecting shit like the coolest fucking samurai ever with Sekiro.

Tlou 2 is aces against humans but the infected are not as fun to fight as the best resident evils.

Gow 2018 and Ragnarok I love but cant compare gameplay wise to the best souls game or even the Bayonetta series. Even Stellar Blade I feel has better combat than gow.

 

[Kokoloko85]

It is what it is.

To be clear, I don't think Sony makes terrible games, far from it. Most of their games are LCD though, thats not a controversial statement. LCD is never going to be the best because by its nature, its going to be a relatively shallow and approachable experience. Most things are LCD, I like LCD games, movies, etc. I'm not saying it's inherently bad.

Maybe give some examples of better combat and gameplay in your opinion?

 

[arkhamguy123]

It is what it is.

To be clear, I don't think Sony makes terrible games, far from it. Most of their games are LCD though, thats not a controversial statement. LCD is never going to be the best because by its nature, its going to be a relatively shallow and approachable experience. Most things are LCD, I like LCD games, movies, etc. I'm not saying it's inherently bad.

“LCD”?

 

[diffusionx]

It is what it is.

To be clear, I don't think Sony makes terrible games, far from it. Most of their games are LCD though, thats not a controversial statement. LCD is never going to be the best because by its nature, its going to be a relatively shallow and approachable experience. Most things are LCD, I like LCD games, movies, etc. I'm not saying it's inherently bad.

this just isn't true. You can turn on game journalist mode of you want but a game like Ragnarok or Horizon has depth and challenge if you want it. And nothing about say Returnal is what you describe. Even a game like Sackboy has some bite if you want to go for all the collectibles.

It's like there are the Sony games that exist, and then the idea that people have of them in their head, and they are two different games.

 

[Romulus]

Considering the incredible amount of money poured into these franchises, I'd say the combat for Sony franchises is fine. Nothing crazy good but what you would expect.

I think the original batman arkham games still feel better from 15 years ago.

 

[Romulus]

Oh no yeah I agree 100% with that first part. I think Batman curbstomps the Spider-Man games hard. And in many, many more ways than just combat and ill leave it at that lol

Are you getting the VR game? People that played it says it translates insanely well.

 

[Aldric]

List of devs that make games with deeper gameplay and better combat than Sony's first party studios:

-Capcom
-Konami
-Koei Tecmo
-Bandai Namco
-Platinum Games
-Nihon Falcom
-Nintendo
-Treasure
-Sega
-Atlus
-SNK
-Vanillaware

List of devs that make games with shallower gameplay and worse combat than Sony's first party studios:

-Bethesda

 

[existensmaximum]

They definitely make the worst puzzles. Braindead easy, and you still get hints from your partner whether you like it or not within 20 seconds.

 

[ClosBSAS]

lol sounds like another sony thread. their games are so overrated jesus. only one i could finish was demons souls...horizon saga is ridiculously boring and dull, god of war games are repetitive and linear, uncharted...pfff....so many wrongs in the OP

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I didn't see From Software mentioned.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Are you getting the VR game? People that played it says it translates insanely well.

Really intruiged by it. I’d have to buy a meta quest 3 though :/

 

[arkhamguy123]

I didn't see From Software mentioned.

I mention them in my post…

 

[RedC]

“LCD”?

Lowest Common Denominator

The expression "lowest common denominator" is used to describe (usually in a disapproving manner) a rule, proposal, opinion, or media that is deliberately simplified so as to appeal to the largest possible number of people

 

[Romulus]

Really intruiged by it. I’d have to buy a meta quest 3 though :/

Yeah or the Quest 3s, which is around $300

 

[Aldric]

Finally read the entire thread and predictably it's a shitshow.

The problem with a lot of Playstation enthusiasts that are trying to convince people that Sony are the best at everything including gameplay mechanics and combat systems is that they never really explain why and instead post endless twitter gifs and youtube vids of some sort of half assed attempt at doing a combo video in Horizon or one of the lesbians in TloU slaughtering hapless bystanders and we're supposed to agree without thinking too hard about it.

Take the claim that Sony's gameplay is the best because "it looks like you're playing a cinematic". Why is that a good thing? You could argue that a game feeling cinematic means that the animations aren't as snappy as something that isn't concerned about that and that it therefore negatively impacts feedback by making the game feel sluggish and not as responsive as a more arcade type of game. You could also say that the emphasis on cinematic presentation removes control from the player and turns interaction into an overly simplified contextual affair where you press a button and you then watch a micro cutscene happen, which is definitely something that plagues a lot of Sony's first party games like GoW or Naughty Dog titles.

So what are we even talking about here? Animation quality, feedback, depth, the amount of options at your disposal and how they synergize with eachother, the variety of gameplay scenarios, the complexity of execution and the skill ceiling associated with it? Based on these standards I don't see how anyone can argue any Sony first party game is among the best in the industry, let alone at the very top.

Just look at Astrobot: it is undeniably a very shallow game mechanically and anyone who knows anything about 3D platformers would understand that. It has three core gameplay mechanics, a basic jump, a punch/spin attack and a hover and that's it. None of these things have any deeper applications than their basic functions, you can't mix and match them to get different results and open up new routes through the levels or anything like that. Compare to 3D Mario games and it's day and night, Odyssey in contrast has 8 different type of basic jumps, dives, rolls, a bunch of different cap throws and then of course all the advanced stuff used in Koopa freerunning leaderboards and speedruns like instant roll cancels, dive vaults, vectoring, buffered spinjump groundpounds etc.

So yeah the only thing this kind of thread ends up doing is confirming a lot of modern Sony fans know very little about videogames and don't really understand what the fundamental appeal of the media is. Which makes sense as if they did they wouldn't be modern Sony fans in the first place.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I mention them in my post…

That post is so poorly laid out I don't see it.(not trying to be a d*ck)

Regardless they are far superior to anything Sony's studios put out.

 

[arkhamguy123]

That post is so poorly laid out I don't see it.(not trying to be a d*ck)

Regardless they are far superior to anything Sony's studios put out.

Post is laid out fine. No one else had an issue. You’re just covering for not reading properly

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Post is laid out fine. No one else had an issue. You’re just covering for not reading properly

No it isn't.
It is a sloppy done wall of text.

 

[arkhamguy123]

No it isn't.
It is a sloppy done wall of text.

Yes. It is. It’s a standard intro body conclusion broken up into three parts.

Next time read Jr

 

[Rising_Hei]

That was half true... in the PS4 era.
I dislike that they tend to streamline and simplify everything too much.
Spiderman, for example, bored me to death and I ended up selling it; and navigating through New York wasn't fun; yes, it looks incredible, but that's everything it had to offer, IMO.

 

[Crayon]

What are the western adventure-style games with the best gameplay?

 

[Alex11]

I don't think so, they are very polished and high quality games but that does not equal best gameplay.
One PS game I would say has this amazing gameplay, and I see it underestimated, don't know why, Returnal.

I'm playing GOW:Ragnarok now on PC and I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but at this point I don't think it's me.
Combat in the story is easy, but then you get to that bitch Valkyrie and it's like I'm playing with one hand tied behind my back.
I've died 25 times at this point to her, not counting restarts, last time a boss wiped the floor like that with me was Isshin in Sekiro and there it was understandable, here it isn't.

This isn't good gameplay, nothing in the game prepared me for this, it was just, bam, surprise MF and it was the same thing in GOW 2018.

There a lot of game games with better gameplay/combat:
- Soulsborne series, Sekiro, Elden Ring, no explanation needed.
- Dishonored series with a myriad of ways to kill and the level design.
- Mirrors's Edge with its simplistic and fun run system.
- Doom 2016, that pace and feeling of shooting stuff is just unmatched.
- NIER Automata, damn what a game, with those endings and combat and how you learned the skills.
- Batman Arkham series

And I'm sure I'm forgetting lots of amazing examples and also from RTS or turn-based games.

I'm not even gonna mention much older games as it's going to be just sad.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Yes. It is. It’s a standard intro body conclusion broken up into three parts.

Next time read Jr

It's not.
Sloppy mess.

 

[arkhamguy123]

It's not.
Sloppy mess.

You not being able to read properly doesn’t render a 3 paragraph opinion piece a sloppy mess. Sorry

Try again

 

[Ironman_Bad]

“LCD”?

I think he meant the LSD he took before the post

 

[Yoboman]

I loved how Stellar blade made the combat enjoyable and challenging. It is like a hybrid combat system; Sekiro and Soul game with a mix of devil may cry and Bayonetta. Not as tough as soul game but still challenging and enjoyable.

About God of war. I agree, but for me the God of war 1-3 are the best and most challenging and enjoyable.

In what world was God of War 1-3 challenging

They were specifically designed to be easy especially 1-2

This rewriting of history when it comes to GOW is always hilarious to me

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You not being able to read properly doesn’t render a 3 paragraph opinion piece a sloppy mess. Sorry

Try again

I can read properly.
Finding things clearly in a sloppy mess is different.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I can read properly.
Finding things clearly in a sloppy mess is different.

You can’t because you couldn’t find a simple piece of information in 3 paragraphs. Basically 4th grade reading level.

But keep telling yourself it was a sloppy mess if it helps your ego

 

[mrqs]

Anyone that calls TLOU 2 gameplay weak or talks shit about it has a rotten brain.

 

[ap_puff]

Just gonna leave this here for anyone who thinks Playstation action combat is "top tier" or anything.

Nah.

 

[CashPrizes]

I tentatively agree. I love Last of Us and Ghost of Tsushima combat.
Horizon a little less, a lot of the weapons feel useless. I platinumed both games and spent extra time to unlock the uber weapons in each category. There were like 10-12 weapon types in Horizon and I only ever used 3 (short bow, Long bow, and bola for elemental types) and then the heavy hitting shotgun thing very occasionally.
God of War does have great combat but I found it very samey.

Witcher 3 properly modded has pretty fantastic combat. I think both the Resident Evil Remakes and Village have great combat. Capcom is doing good things across the board.

Dead Cells and Hollow Knight have my favorite 2d combat.

Unpopular Opinion, but Mass Effect Andromeda has really great combat as well.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

if you don't like Sony games (and most likely never played one) and keep posting the exact same things (walking simulator, cinematographic experience with no gameplay) for the last 20 years (dammed, those old men yelling), honestly...

 

[Warablo]

The Last of Us is stellar combat, but Uncharted is meh

 

[vaibhavpisal]

if you don't like Sony games (and most likely never played one)...

This makes no sense.

Playstation is defacto console, everyone here has played them. Thats why they generate strong reactions.

I am myself on fence whether to get ps5 or not. Am not sure if I can take it. Can backfire badly.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

This makes no sense.

Playstation is defacto console, everyone here has played them. Thats why they generate strong reactions.

I am myself on fence whether to get ps5 or not. Am not sure if I can take it. Can backfire badly.

Opinion... okey! And?

 

[Laptop1991]

No, i don't think you can say 1 platform makes the best combat and gameplay, i think it varies from game to game regardless of the platform or studio.

 

[yogaflame]

In what world was God of War 1-3 challenging

They were specifically designed to be easy especially 1-2

This rewriting of history when it comes to GOW is always hilarious to me

Well I played Gow 1-3 on hard mode and enjoyed the challenge even if it hurts my hand and thumb

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Opinion... okey! And?