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Pokémon Community Thread 2: "This is the Real Power of Johto..."

Quick warning; Pikachu and Excadrill have been shadowed in merchandise like this before.

Regardless, I think it's flagrantly obvious we're getting at least one new Pokemon soon.
 
Coltraine, did anyone ever comment on the video linked in the B2/W2 banner? I feel like it ended up an unappreciated Easter egg. :<

I still think it's great though. Haha.
 

ffdgh

Member
I'm already in the pokecenter If you want to trade now.

Ok....electric/fighting kangaroo with Technician and iron fist.
 
I still skim through it when I want to tell someone my friend code. The Google Doc didn't get much use though. Everyone ignored it this time around. :/
Probably as expected, given 3rd game-ness and all.

Still sucks ._.

At least I have hype to distract me. Let's go 6th gen, I need all the Streetpasses
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Been futzing around with pokecheck to help trade some pokes with myself and holy shit is that site GROSS! Why have I been spending dozens of hours trying to breed pokemon with garbage IVs when you can just go download one with maximum EVERYTHING?

In a way I feel like it cheapens the idea of "raising" a pokemon. On the other hand, for competitive play I feel like (just like with things like collectible card games) coming up with the strategy should be the hard part, not sitting around breeding pokemon for hundreds of hours or grinding in the subway to get items. Downloading pokemon on pokecheck makes it seem more like you're "customizing your deck" with preexisting cards like in Magic the Gathering, which isn't a bad thing IMO but it still feels filthy and wrong.

When I first got it working and traded one of my only 2 ever obtained shiny pokemon to my newest game (in the process DUPING it) I knew I was playing with fire. I'm still not entirely sure I'm happy that I even know this exists...

Sorry if all of this is old hat to you guys, but as someone that just discovered this for the first time, I can feel my mind breaking a little bit.
 

backlot

Member
Been futzing around with pokecheck to help trade some pokes with myself and holy shit is that site GROSS! Why have I been spending dozens of hours trying to breed pokemon with garbage IVs when you can just go download one with maximum EVERYTHING?

In a way I feel like it cheapens the idea of "raising" a pokemon. On the other hand, for competitive play I feel like (just like with things like collectible card games) coming up with the strategy should be the hard part, not sitting around breeding pokemon for hundreds of hours or grinding in the subway to get items. Downloading pokemon on pokecheck makes it seem more like you're "customizing your deck" with preexisting cards like in Magic the Gathering, which isn't a bad thing IMO but it still feels filthy and wrong.

When I first got it working and traded one of my only 2 ever obtained shiny pokemon to my newest game (in the process DUPING it) I knew I was playing with fire. I'm still not entirely sure I'm happy that I even know this exists...

Sorry if all of this is old hat to you guys, but as someone that just discovered this for the first time, I can feel my mind breaking a little bit.
I've never used Pokecheck. I mostly just breed all my flawless Pokemon myself.
 
In a way I feel like it cheapens the idea of "raising" a pokemon. On the other hand, for competitive play I feel like (just like with things like collectible card games) coming up with the strategy should be the hard part, not sitting around breeding pokemon for hundreds of hours or grinding in the subway to get items. Downloading pokemon on pokecheck makes it seem more like you're "customizing your deck" with preexisting cards like in Magic the Gathering, which isn't a bad thing IMO but it still feels filthy and wrong.

Well, imagine if everybody playing the card game just printed off copies of the cards instead of collecting the real thing. Sometimes collecting a rare card is the hard part, not coming up with the strategy. PokéCheck abuse is the same thing as collecting counterfeit cards.
 

ffdgh

Member
lol Sorry I introduced it to you. Don't go too far to the dark side. :p

It's so useful tho for someone with one 3/ds...and works with trade evolutions.
 
Been futzing around with pokecheck to help trade some pokes with myself and holy shit is that site GROSS! Why have I been spending dozens of hours trying to breed pokemon with garbage IVs when you can just go download one with maximum EVERYTHING?

In a way I feel like it cheapens the idea of "raising" a pokemon. On the other hand, for competitive play I feel like (just like with things like collectible card games) coming up with the strategy should be the hard part, not sitting around breeding pokemon for hundreds of hours or grinding in the subway to get items. Downloading pokemon on pokecheck makes it seem more like you're "customizing your deck" with preexisting cards like in Magic the Gathering, which isn't a bad thing IMO but it still feels filthy and wrong.

When I first got it working and traded one of my only 2 ever obtained shiny pokemon to my newest game (in the process DUPING it) I knew I was playing with fire. I'm still not entirely sure I'm happy that I even know this exists...

Sorry if all of this is old hat to you guys, but as someone that just discovered this for the first time, I can feel my mind breaking a little bit.

Nobody does anything completely legitimately since the proliferation of RNG abuse (Can of Worms Status: Opened) so don't feel too bad about it. As long as you keep within the bounds of what's possible in the game you're okay.
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Well, imagine if everybody playing the card game just printed off copies of the cards instead of collecting the real thing. Sometimes collecting a rare card is the hard part, not coming up with the strategy. PokéCheck abuse is the same thing as collecting counterfeit cards.

Rare cards can still be easily obtained with cash money though. There's a legitimacy just buying the card, but you say that's a shortcut to buying booster packs until you've found the card you're looking for. You could consider it cheap. It's all dependent on how far down the path each player is willing to go. Do you think someone is a better battler/player if they win using downloaded pokes vs. ones they raised themselves?

The other side of this is I've been trying to re-"Catch em all" since I first did it on Red and recently lost my nearly complete pokedex when my copy of Pearl died on me. I'm looking at this site now and thinking of how trivial it would be to just download every pokemon now and that KILLS me after having spent hundreds of hours in this franchise. D:
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
If gen six is anywhere near as good as gen five I'll get 3 streetpasses a day because I'll go out and buy another 3DS just for trading and storage purposes for pokemon.
 

upandaway

Member
Well, imagine if everybody playing the card game just printed off copies of the cards instead of collecting the real thing. Sometimes collecting a rare card is the hard part, not coming up with the strategy. PokéCheck abuse is the same thing as collecting counterfeit cards.
I don't think it's quite the same comparison.. cards require money and breeding perfect Pokemon requires time. For example, using a Mesprit or some other legendary with perfect IVs (since they're harder to get than breedable Pokemon) isn't considered "rare", it's just that the guy took the time to do it. In general cards are more about playing with what you have in the best way possible, though the element of preparation is still big, it's not as big as in the games.
 

backlot

Member
Rare cards can still be easily obtained with cash money though. There's a legitimacy just buying the card, but you say that's a shortcut to buying booster packs until you've found the card you're looking for. You could consider it cheap. It's all dependent on how far down the path each player is willing to go. Do you think someone is a better battler/player if they win using downloaded pokes vs. ones they raised themselves?

The other side of this is I've been trying to re-"Catch em all" since I first did it on Red and recently lost my nearly complete pokedex when my copy of Pearl died on me. I'm looking at this site now and thinking of how trivial it would be to just download every pokemon now and that KILLS me after having spent hundreds of hours in this franchise. D:

One point I'd like to add is that someone who trains their Pokemon with custom EV spreads and movesets to fit the specific needs of their team is probably a better player than someone who downloads and uses a bunch of Pokemon with generic movesets. There's more to raising a Pokemon than just breeding for perfect IV's.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
There is and there isn't.

It's clear that most if not all of the best players of the game do "cheat" in one way or another to obtain their pokemon.
 
Rare cards can still be easily obtained with cash money though. There's a legitimacy just buying the card, but you say that's a shortcut to buying booster packs until you've found the card you're looking for. You could consider it cheap. It's all dependent on how far down the path each player is willing to go. Do you think someone is a better battler/player if they win using downloaded pokes vs. ones they raised themselves?

You're still buying the one and only original card with cash though. Not the ten thousandth copy. You can obtain legitimate, unique Pokémon by trading or using the RNG too.

It doesn't necessarily make you a better battler/player raising Pokémon yourself. But it does mean you're playing the game for what it is and not cutting out a huge chunk of the work the creators intended for you or someone else to invest into it.

The other side of this is I've been trying to re-"Catch em all" since I first did it on Red and recently lost my nearly complete pokedex when my copy of Pearl died on me. I'm looking at this site now and thinking of how trivial it would be to just download every pokemon now and that KILLS me after having spent hundreds of hours in this franchise. D:

Why would you want to collect them that way if they're just copies? There isn't much left to playing the game if you take out training and catching Pokémon.

I don't think it's quite the same comparison.. cards require money and breeding perfect Pokemon requires time.

It is the same. Time is valuable in and of itself, and it is required to make money. The point is, you invest something and get something in return. Equivalent exchange. PokéCheck is basically you invest nothing and get everything.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
I know the makers of the game want you to 'earn' your Pokemon, but I don't agree with them on how I should use the product I purchased, especially since all it's really doing is grinding. Grinding is doing the same repetitive task over and over, and you learn absolutely nothing from it, there is nothing to gain and only to lose, because you lose time. Some people may enjoy grinding, I however do not enjoy that aspect, but it's not either or not you like or dislike grinding, it's that there is literally no importance to it at all, it's only something that consumes time.

Pokemon are mere bytes on a cartridge, and to grind for them doesn't earn you anything other than a more powerful Pokemon, just in a much slower way. I don't consider "legitimate" to mean that you must do as the developer wants you to do, they are just another person after all. I consider it not using a Pokemon with 999 stats, and things that are actually game breaking.

So in other words, there is no difference in one person who decides to use a device for instant gratification and another who spends time grinding other than the fact that they are doing two separate things towards a same goal. Unlike counterfeiting, you own the product and aren't doing anything wrong.

Matter of fact, you'll learn so much more from not having wasted the time on grinding for these Pokemon and spending that time battling with others. All that matters in the end is your guessing-game, knowledge, and battling skills for when it comes to battling.
 

ffdgh

Member
*notices the resident Buizel, ffdgh's avatar is strangely familiar*

Oh it's this pic with a few changes

800px-Ash_Buizel.png
 
In other words, there is no difference in one person who decides to use steroids for instant gratification and another who spends extra time working out in the gym other than the fact that they are doing two separate things towards a same goal.

Pokemon are mere bytes on a cartridge...

Unlike counterfeiting, you own the product and aren't doing anything wrong.

The bytes for your particular Pokémon don't exist until you create them. You can either do it in legitimate ways or counterfeit the bytes through an external program.

I honestly don't care how anyone gets their Pokémon, or what they do with them once they've got them. I just want you to be honest if you cheated the system. Don't try to cover it up and say it's the same thing when it isn't.



It was my idea!!

That's not how I remember it! I thought I was the one who requested it in the IRC?
 

Kokonoe

Banned
You're comparing steroids usage to to editing bytes on a cartridge? Good thing this occurred.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc.

And nothing is unique in Pokemon, so that isn't the case either. They are rounded down to numbers around an ID number that is created based on the characters you use to create your name. Even without this aspect, other people can easily obtain Pokemon of the exact same stats, and it even happens more so in the competitive scene where people only use Pokemon of the highest caliber.

What is 'unique' in Pokemon is how you battle, and how you use your skills while battling, and also how you lot specs and movesets into your team.
 
You're comparing steroids usage to to editing bytes on a cartridge? Good thing this occurred.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc.

You're within your rights to use anabolic steroids in lots of countries too, just like a Game Genie, but that doesn't mean you can enter the Olympics as a member of your country's team. Feel free to obtain your Pokémon in any way you feel you have the right to, but if someone asks to battle with Pokémon they raised themselves, don't pull out something you downloaded from a website.

And nothing is unique in Pokemon, so that isn't the case either.
I feel like this is my verbal spat with the leader of some evil Pokémon organization. You are wearing a Team Galactic outfit...

"I'll not have you slander the name of my Arcanine! He's not just another tool. He's my friend!"
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
You're still buying the one and only original card with cash though. Not the ten thousandth copy. You can obtain legitimate, unique Pokémon by trading or using the RNG too.

It doesn't necessarily make you a better battler/player raising Pokémon yourself. But it does mean you're playing the game for what it is and not cutting out a huge chunk of the work the creators intended for you or someone else to invest into it.



Why would you want to collect them that way if they're just copies? There isn't much left to playing the game if you take out training and catching Pokémon.



It is the same. Time is valuable in and of itself, and it is required to make money. The point is, you invest something and get something in return. Equivalent exchange. PokéCheck is basically you invest nothing and get everything.

Well that "original card" that you bought is one of hundreds of thousands of identical copies. The comparison isn't wholly appropriate because pokemon are designed to have lots of variations in their makeup to facilitate different play styles, unlike a playing card, which only has one possible configuration. Though pokemon only have one or two "best" configuration per strategy as far as IVs, EVs and nature are concerned, and for the purposes of battling competitively wouldn't that provide a more level playing field if everyone just had those all maxed out?
 
The fabled return of Kokonoe AND tiggerkiddo?

I don't have backup...I'll get wiped out and end up comatose in a Pokémon Center.



But yes, the EV/IV system is a mostly unnecessary hurdle. If they were removed, I wouldn't protest.
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
The idea behind EV's is good. You should be able to "spec" your pokemon to fit the strategy of the move list you give them and it would suck if all pokemon of the same type were 100% identical except for move list. I agree though, IV's are the worst! If you want to keep a random/semi-random element of breeding keep natures. You can breed natures relatively easy and they go a long way in giving that pokemon a specialty and a kickstart towards what spec you want him to have. IV's though, they're just so stupid. They have no place in a game with such a die hard competitive scene.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
I suppose I'll get this out of the way regardless of my joking sometimes on this subject just so I can reference it later.

Pokemon Generations Creativity Dispute

I'd like to discuss the popular dispute that -insert this Gen is more creative because so and so, and that makes it the better generation in terms of Pokemon designs-.

Let's start off by saying that, more than likely, all this is a matter of opinion. What one deems creative, another may think is not creative. I will go ahead and share my opinion that I think every single generation has some 'bad' designs in it, but that's my opinion. For one to say one generation is better than the other is not a fact, nor will it ever be. However, a lot of dispute goes over what exactly is creative, and that creativity means good. Creativity can mean either good or bad, it doesn't entirely mean good, that's up to the user to decide.

A design doesn't have to be creative for it to look good, and that's where I think a lot of misconception comes from. A lot of disputes are tailored around the least creative designs being the worst, neglecting if the actual appearances are appealing. Now I'm not going to defend stuff like Voltorb or the Vanilluxe line, but I'm more so referencing Pokemon like Pidgey, Torchic, or Wurmple.

In short: Pokemon that aren't creative can look decent, and don't require creativity to be. Creativity is a bonus, though.

Nostalgia

Another thing that is brought up is that people will reference nostalgia if they like the previous versions, however, that line of thinking doesn't make sense. Nostalgia simply means a memory of a past good time, it does not mean biased, and nostalgia will never have that effect unless the person is biased. Because someone likes something else, it doesn't equate to a specific negative reason, and to tie to to that would make you actually the biased one.

I think using nostalgia is rather silly in itself, there are reasons people like whatever they like. Now, if it's from someone who stopped playing at the original games and says "the newer Pokemon games are terrible, blahblahblah." then there's where that argument can be brought up. For those who will say they liked the older generations more, and have participated in the later gens, I don't think it's fair at all to label that as nostalgia. It can easily be thrown around without any given reason, and has no basis unless it's what I stated before about never playing the games.

Let's say DPP/BW are your favorite versions, and ten years from now you still think they are your favorites, that wouldn't make you "nostalgic". And yes, I think there are highs and lows to every generation, it's purely preference in the end.

I feel like this is my verbal spat with the leader of some evil Pokémon organization. You are wearing a Team Galactic outfit...

"I'll not have you slander the name of my Arcanine! He's not just another tool. He's my friend!"

Kokonoe has to take off her 'Pokemon are friends not tools' cap when it comes to the actual game and discussion, but that is a good observation. -laughs-
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Almost all my favorite pokeymans are from Gen 3 and I actively dislike that whole set of games. :3
 
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