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Isn't that the giant whale on the left side?Andrex said:
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Pokémon Heart Gold/Superior Silver |OT|
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SolarPowered
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I don't have any adamant ditto at the moment unfortunately.finalozzo said:
sorry
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Mush said:
For more laughs check out my Pokemon comics album.
Man, now I've started tagging everything. This is gonna take all night. :lol
SolarPowered said:
Oh right, of course. >.> Nvm.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Just now realized I've been raising an Azumarill from an egg for about a week just sort've blindly assuming it had Huge Power.
It has Thick Fat.
FML.
It has Thick Fat.
FML.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
SuperAngelo64 said:
Hey, I completely trained my Driflbim before 645 pointed out it didn't have Aftermath. :lol
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I got a Ditto swarm today, but mostly bad natures. Ended up sorting them by their top IV's in a box and marking them. The one I've used since I started is level 80 now. :lol
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
So I'm typing up a VGC primer for two friends that are likely to be tagging along with me to Indianapolis this year. Can any of you guys give this a read and let me know if I missed anything important or if anything is off-base?
I'm going to be adding a list and analysis of commonly-used Pokemon in the regionals as well, including one for every permitted Uber. This will be just as much for my own teambuilding reference as it is for theirs.
DOUBLE BATTLE TIPS
Teach Protect/Detect to anything that can sacrifice a moveslot for it, and particularly anything with mediocre defenses (except Choice item users). Since you have 8 moves at your disposal at any given time in doubles instead of 4, this is usually feasible to do without losing too much attack type coverage. Protecting is typically the most common defensive action in doubles. Switching is not as common and entry hazard attacks (Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin) are not as useful.
Use leads that can either attack out of the gate or take very little time to set-up (one turn maximum IMO). Do not use complicated set-ups that can be easily deduced and foiled by your opponent. Try to prevent as many bad matchups for your leads as possible, as you do not have the luxury of switching frequently without often paying a heavy price for it.
When playing doubles, be able to identify which of your targets are likely to be attacking, setting up, Protecting, or serving as decoys on any given turn, and act accordingly. This applies doubly to leads, which are often the ones used to set up any global effects. If you see a relatively weak Pokemon being used by your opponent that is not likely to be doing any direct damage, try to figure out what it's there for and how threatening its abilities are to your team. Prioritize your actions according to how threatening such Pokemon are and how easily you can KO or disable them.
Be aware of doubles-specific attributes for various moves. Earthquake, Surf, Discharge, Explosion, and other moves hit all Pokemon on the field, including the user's partner. When using such moves, make sure that the rest of your team can take that hit, either with heavy resistances, Protect, or special abilities (Levitate, Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, etc). Blizzard, Water Spout, Rock Slide, Heat Wave, and others hit both opponents but not the partner.
Furthermore, an attack that hits multiple opponents only hits with 75% of its full strength. The exception is when there is only one target left standing. This applies even when one target is KO'd in the middle of a turn. Say you use Water Spout against a Groudon and Zapdos combo, and Zapdos is the faster of the two. Water Spout will hit Zapdos with 75% strength, but if Zapdos is KO'd, then Water Spout will hit Groudon with the full 100% of its power.
Be aware of moves that are only used in doubles. Follow Me causes all targetted attacks to hit the user, and the user of this move often serves as a decoy so that its partner can set up freely. It can be foiled by using moves that target multiple opponents. Follow Me can only be learned by Smeargle, Clefable, Togekiss, Lucario, Electivire, Furret, Mr. Mime, Pikachu, and their evolution lines.
Helping Hand increases the strength of the partner's attack by 50% and has higher speed priority than Protect. It is learned by several more Pokemon than Follow Me, but some notable ones include: Arcanine, Azelf, Blissey, Breloom, Cherrim, Clefable, Cresselia, Electivire, Gallade, Hitmontop, Infernape, Jumpluff, Latias, Latios, Machamp, Magmortar.
Moves requring a charge turn (Fly, SolarBeam, Dig, Dive, Shadow Force, etc.) are heavily discouraged in single battles because they telegraph your move to the opponent and give him a free opportunity to switch to something with an advantageous matchup. This doesn't quite apply to doubles, as switching is less frequent in general and it's impossible to tell which Pokemon the user is targetting until the move actually hits. Giratina's signature move, Shadow Force, is particularly notable because it cannot be blocked by Protect or Detect.
There are other moves seldomly used in singles that have utility in doubles. Dream Eater can be viable if the target is put to sleep earlier in the same turn. Swagger can be used on an Own Tempo partner to double its attack stat without being confused. Skill Swap and Worry Seed can be used on a partner to dispose of a disadvantageous ability (such as Regigigas's Slow Start) or to gain an advantageous one (such as a Sheer Cold Articuno with No Guard). Notable Skill Swap users include: Mewtwo, Lugia, Azelf, Blissey, Bronzong, and Cresselia. Still other useful support moves include Taunt, Encore, Psych Up (usable by several powerful legendaries), Gastro Acid, and Tailwind.
WEATHER EFFECTS
Weather is more popular in doubles than singles in general, and since Kyogre and Groudon are permitted for use in VGC 2010, whoever controls the weather is often in control of the match. Make sure that your team is capable of functioning well in multiple types of weather.
Rain: Water attacks do 1.5x damage. Fire attacks and SolarBeam do 0.5x damage. Thunder has 100% accuracy instead of 70%. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 25% HP instead of 50%. Pokemon w/ Rain Dish and Dry Skin heal themselves a little at the end of every turn.
Hail: All non-Ice Pokemon lose 1/16th of their HP each turn. Blizzard has 100% accuracy instead of 70%. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 25% HP instead of 50%. Pokemon w/ Ice Body heal themselves a little at the end of every turn.
Sun: Fire attacks do 1.5x damage. Water attacks do 0.5x damage. SolarBeam requires no charge turn. Thunder is 50% accurate. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 67% HP. Pokemon cannot be frozen. Pokemon with Chlorophyll have double speed. Pokemon with Flower Gift and their partners receive stat boosts. Pokemon with Dry Skin / Solar Power lose 1/8th HP every turn.
Sandstorm: All non-Rock/Ground/Steel Pokemon lose 1/16th of their HP each turn. Rock Pokemon earn a 50% special defense boost. SolarBeam does 0.5x damage. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 25% HP.
SPEED, TRICK ROOM, AND PRIORITY MOVES
Offense-driven metagames (of which VGC 2010 most certainly is) are heavily decided by speed. Whoever moves first on any given turn usually has a significant advantage. Try to glean as much information from the field as possible to determine the speed order of all Pokemon involved. When any multi-target effect/attack is used, the status messages will appear in order from fastest target to slowest target. If Earthquake hits all 3 other Pokemon, the fastest Pokemon will take damage first. If Intimidate activates, it will affect the fastest target first. When a hail storm is in play, it will affect the fastest target first.
Trick Room reverses the speed of all Pokemon for 5 turns (including the turn it is used, meaning that it is only really utilized for 4 turns). Pokemon can take advantage of Trick Room by running -Speed natures, allocating no Speed EVs, and using hold items such as Iron Ball to cut speed in half. This allows them to allocate EVs in other stats without worrying about speed.
Priority levels are not affected by Trick Room. A fast Pokemon using Ice Shard (+1 priority) will still attack before a slow Pokemon using Blizzard (0 priority). A slow Pokemon using Ice Shard would move before a fast Pokemon using Ice Shard, however. For this reason, it's a good idea to have several priority moves distributed throughout your team. Fake Out, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, and ExtremeSpeed are good examples.
If two auto-weather Pokemon (Kyogre, Abomasnow, Groudon, Tyranitar, Hippowdon) are sent into play on the same turn, the Pokemon that moves last is the one whose weather takes control of the field.
ITEMS
Most items that are useful in standard singles play are also useful in VGC. Life Orb is just as useful on heavy hitters as ever. Choice items are useful but can carry greater risks if you need to switch and reset it. Focus Sash is arguably more useful since Stealth Rock is unlikely to be in play often.
Leftovers is often not as useful except on the few paricularly defensive/stall Pokemon that are viable in VGC (like Blissey). In many cases, Sitrus Berry and similar items are more useful because they provide a larger and instantaneous HP boost. There are so many phenomenally powerful Pokemon permitted in this year's VGC that several Pokemon would be unable to survive long enough to recover a significant amount of HP with Leftovers.
Resistance berries can be useful for anything that happens to have high defenses but is also Ice/Dragon-weak. Status berries are useful but should be picked carefully. If a Pokemon is much more threatened by sleep than other status moves, it is often best to go with Chesto Berry instead of Lum Berry. White Herb is useful for Draco Meteor users. Iron Ball can be used for Trick Room teams or on auto-weather Pokemon to gain the weather advantage; it can also be utilized as an attack via Fling, removing the speed disadvantage in the process.
I'm going to be adding a list and analysis of commonly-used Pokemon in the regionals as well, including one for every permitted Uber. This will be just as much for my own teambuilding reference as it is for theirs.
DOUBLE BATTLE TIPS
Teach Protect/Detect to anything that can sacrifice a moveslot for it, and particularly anything with mediocre defenses (except Choice item users). Since you have 8 moves at your disposal at any given time in doubles instead of 4, this is usually feasible to do without losing too much attack type coverage. Protecting is typically the most common defensive action in doubles. Switching is not as common and entry hazard attacks (Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin) are not as useful.
Use leads that can either attack out of the gate or take very little time to set-up (one turn maximum IMO). Do not use complicated set-ups that can be easily deduced and foiled by your opponent. Try to prevent as many bad matchups for your leads as possible, as you do not have the luxury of switching frequently without often paying a heavy price for it.
When playing doubles, be able to identify which of your targets are likely to be attacking, setting up, Protecting, or serving as decoys on any given turn, and act accordingly. This applies doubly to leads, which are often the ones used to set up any global effects. If you see a relatively weak Pokemon being used by your opponent that is not likely to be doing any direct damage, try to figure out what it's there for and how threatening its abilities are to your team. Prioritize your actions according to how threatening such Pokemon are and how easily you can KO or disable them.
Be aware of doubles-specific attributes for various moves. Earthquake, Surf, Discharge, Explosion, and other moves hit all Pokemon on the field, including the user's partner. When using such moves, make sure that the rest of your team can take that hit, either with heavy resistances, Protect, or special abilities (Levitate, Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, etc). Blizzard, Water Spout, Rock Slide, Heat Wave, and others hit both opponents but not the partner.
Furthermore, an attack that hits multiple opponents only hits with 75% of its full strength. The exception is when there is only one target left standing. This applies even when one target is KO'd in the middle of a turn. Say you use Water Spout against a Groudon and Zapdos combo, and Zapdos is the faster of the two. Water Spout will hit Zapdos with 75% strength, but if Zapdos is KO'd, then Water Spout will hit Groudon with the full 100% of its power.
Be aware of moves that are only used in doubles. Follow Me causes all targetted attacks to hit the user, and the user of this move often serves as a decoy so that its partner can set up freely. It can be foiled by using moves that target multiple opponents. Follow Me can only be learned by Smeargle, Clefable, Togekiss, Lucario, Electivire, Furret, Mr. Mime, Pikachu, and their evolution lines.
Helping Hand increases the strength of the partner's attack by 50% and has higher speed priority than Protect. It is learned by several more Pokemon than Follow Me, but some notable ones include: Arcanine, Azelf, Blissey, Breloom, Cherrim, Clefable, Cresselia, Electivire, Gallade, Hitmontop, Infernape, Jumpluff, Latias, Latios, Machamp, Magmortar.
Moves requring a charge turn (Fly, SolarBeam, Dig, Dive, Shadow Force, etc.) are heavily discouraged in single battles because they telegraph your move to the opponent and give him a free opportunity to switch to something with an advantageous matchup. This doesn't quite apply to doubles, as switching is less frequent in general and it's impossible to tell which Pokemon the user is targetting until the move actually hits. Giratina's signature move, Shadow Force, is particularly notable because it cannot be blocked by Protect or Detect.
There are other moves seldomly used in singles that have utility in doubles. Dream Eater can be viable if the target is put to sleep earlier in the same turn. Swagger can be used on an Own Tempo partner to double its attack stat without being confused. Skill Swap and Worry Seed can be used on a partner to dispose of a disadvantageous ability (such as Regigigas's Slow Start) or to gain an advantageous one (such as a Sheer Cold Articuno with No Guard). Notable Skill Swap users include: Mewtwo, Lugia, Azelf, Blissey, Bronzong, and Cresselia. Still other useful support moves include Taunt, Encore, Psych Up (usable by several powerful legendaries), Gastro Acid, and Tailwind.
WEATHER EFFECTS
Weather is more popular in doubles than singles in general, and since Kyogre and Groudon are permitted for use in VGC 2010, whoever controls the weather is often in control of the match. Make sure that your team is capable of functioning well in multiple types of weather.
Rain: Water attacks do 1.5x damage. Fire attacks and SolarBeam do 0.5x damage. Thunder has 100% accuracy instead of 70%. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 25% HP instead of 50%. Pokemon w/ Rain Dish and Dry Skin heal themselves a little at the end of every turn.
Hail: All non-Ice Pokemon lose 1/16th of their HP each turn. Blizzard has 100% accuracy instead of 70%. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 25% HP instead of 50%. Pokemon w/ Ice Body heal themselves a little at the end of every turn.
Sun: Fire attacks do 1.5x damage. Water attacks do 0.5x damage. SolarBeam requires no charge turn. Thunder is 50% accurate. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 67% HP. Pokemon cannot be frozen. Pokemon with Chlorophyll have double speed. Pokemon with Flower Gift and their partners receive stat boosts. Pokemon with Dry Skin / Solar Power lose 1/8th HP every turn.
Sandstorm: All non-Rock/Ground/Steel Pokemon lose 1/16th of their HP each turn. Rock Pokemon earn a 50% special defense boost. SolarBeam does 0.5x damage. Weather-dependent healing moves heal 25% HP.
SPEED, TRICK ROOM, AND PRIORITY MOVES
Offense-driven metagames (of which VGC 2010 most certainly is) are heavily decided by speed. Whoever moves first on any given turn usually has a significant advantage. Try to glean as much information from the field as possible to determine the speed order of all Pokemon involved. When any multi-target effect/attack is used, the status messages will appear in order from fastest target to slowest target. If Earthquake hits all 3 other Pokemon, the fastest Pokemon will take damage first. If Intimidate activates, it will affect the fastest target first. When a hail storm is in play, it will affect the fastest target first.
Trick Room reverses the speed of all Pokemon for 5 turns (including the turn it is used, meaning that it is only really utilized for 4 turns). Pokemon can take advantage of Trick Room by running -Speed natures, allocating no Speed EVs, and using hold items such as Iron Ball to cut speed in half. This allows them to allocate EVs in other stats without worrying about speed.
Priority levels are not affected by Trick Room. A fast Pokemon using Ice Shard (+1 priority) will still attack before a slow Pokemon using Blizzard (0 priority). A slow Pokemon using Ice Shard would move before a fast Pokemon using Ice Shard, however. For this reason, it's a good idea to have several priority moves distributed throughout your team. Fake Out, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, and ExtremeSpeed are good examples.
If two auto-weather Pokemon (Kyogre, Abomasnow, Groudon, Tyranitar, Hippowdon) are sent into play on the same turn, the Pokemon that moves last is the one whose weather takes control of the field.
ITEMS
Most items that are useful in standard singles play are also useful in VGC. Life Orb is just as useful on heavy hitters as ever. Choice items are useful but can carry greater risks if you need to switch and reset it. Focus Sash is arguably more useful since Stealth Rock is unlikely to be in play often.
Leftovers is often not as useful except on the few paricularly defensive/stall Pokemon that are viable in VGC (like Blissey). In many cases, Sitrus Berry and similar items are more useful because they provide a larger and instantaneous HP boost. There are so many phenomenally powerful Pokemon permitted in this year's VGC that several Pokemon would be unable to survive long enough to recover a significant amount of HP with Leftovers.
Resistance berries can be useful for anything that happens to have high defenses but is also Ice/Dragon-weak. Status berries are useful but should be picked carefully. If a Pokemon is much more threatened by sleep than other status moves, it is often best to go with Chesto Berry instead of Lum Berry. White Herb is useful for Draco Meteor users. Iron Ball can be used for Trick Room teams or on auto-weather Pokemon to gain the weather advantage; it can also be utilized as an attack via Fling, removing the speed disadvantage in the process.
Little Green Yoda
Member
If it's a VGC primer moreso than a generic doubles primer, make sure to mention Item Clause and lack of Sleep Clause. Along with Iron Ball, you can run Power Items and Macho Brace if you really need the speed drop on a TR team. Dark Void Smeargle is a legitimate threat; ignore it at your own peril.
The usefulness of Fake Out leads cannot be overstated IMO. Whether it's to aid your setup or to slow down the opponent's setup, that first turn can be crucial to how the battle goes.
The usefulness of Fake Out leads cannot be overstated IMO. Whether it's to aid your setup or to slow down the opponent's setup, that first turn can be crucial to how the battle goes.
That's pretty in-depth. If they don't play Pokemon much, just give 'em a Hitmontop, Kyogre, and Abomasnow with these instructions:
Option A:
Fake Out something + Spam Water Spout
Option B:
Switch to Abomasnow + Spam Blizzard
Foolproof! And apparently something nobody still counters judging by how well it continues to do.
Remember to download Pokemon Online (http://www.pokemon-online.eu) and test. Lot of good players on, although a lot of them are under aliases.
Option A:
Fake Out something + Spam Water Spout
Option B:
Switch to Abomasnow + Spam Blizzard
Foolproof! And apparently something nobody still counters judging by how well it continues to do.
Remember to download Pokemon Online (http://www.pokemon-online.eu) and test. Lot of good players on, although a lot of them are under aliases.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
-Auto-weather Pokemon? (Kyogre/Groudon/Tyranitar/Abomasnow/Hippowdon).
-Swift Swim doubles speed in Rain (since you mentioned Chlorophyll).
Then again, not sure how popular those above Pokes are in VGC, so it may be better off not mentioning them.
EDIT:
I'll let you know the next time I'm online.
-Swift Swim doubles speed in Rain (since you mentioned Chlorophyll).
Then again, not sure how popular those above Pokes are in VGC, so it may be better off not mentioning them.
EDIT:
Reich said:
I'll let you know the next time I'm online.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
They're pretty competent. They don't play against anyone beside me that often, but I let one of them take my teams for a run on PBR against Japanese VGC teams and was surprised at how well he did despite not having a DS or 4th gen game of his own.Firestorm said:
I need to decide on my team so that I can hand out my leftover RNG-abused legendaries to them. I've decided on my leads but need to do a threat check before settling on the rest of the team.
Yeah, if they're competent just let 'em go on PO for a bit and they'll pick up some of the differences. Honestly, people may say "hahaha smogon noobs only know singles" or whatever, but Pokemon is Pokemon. I see the same players who do well in any metagame do well in VGC. There are a few differences you need to note, but a lot of Singles knowledge will carry over.
Remember that double targetting is always super risky as a Protect by the one that got double targetted means your entire turn was useless and they got off an attack.
Remember that double targetting is always super risky as a Protect by the one that got double targetted means your entire turn was useless and they got off an attack.
shykyoichi
Member
Competitive Battling is based on tiers and not on whether one is using a legendary PKMN or not. For example, Suicune and Jirachi are OU. Registeel is UU. Entei is NU. Mewtwo is Uber.finalozzo said:
Togekiss can do the same thing. So can Blissey.finalozzo said:
For future reference, this is what's banned on Smogon's Shoddy server (and most battles you'll play): http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/uber
Yea but half the annoyance is being paralyzed so you have only a 70% chance of attacking provided you get past the 60% flinch rate!Wichu said:Don't forget Dunsparce
With access to Agility, it can boost its Speed and flinchspam things without needing to paralyse them with Thunder Wave first. :lol
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Alright, have got the first 250 Pokemon in my Pokedex, just waiting on NoA to distribute Celebi then I can say I have all gen 1 and 2 Pokemon. Tyranitar was a bitch, who thought it was a good idea for it to evolve at 55?
Time to get serious about the Hoenn Pokemon, even though I know at this point that's going to take a lot longer...
Time to get serious about the Hoenn Pokemon, even though I know at this point that's going to take a lot longer...
Andrex said:
You'll start to see a large number of Celebi appear when the 'Japanese Movie Celebi'
with Nasty Plot!
Firestorm said:
Might as well throw on Water Pulse and it's 40% confusion rate that all the Serene Grace users receive.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
EvilMario said:
I'll wait a month or two. I'd really like to do the Tohjoh Falls sidequest with it, though.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
xSL4INx said:
I actually welcomed this, which enabled me to toss a Quick Ball the next time I encountered them (assuming they're still asleep and at low HP). That is, if you insist on catching them during the day. Otherwise, just wait for night and Dusk Ball away.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Firestorm said:
lol Rock Slide Blissey
EDIT: Wait, I thought Togekiss could learn Twister? Maybe I'm mistaking it for some other Pokemon. I remember somebody using Twister hax on me in a doubles battle.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Volt Absorb Discharge Jolteon + Serene Grace Skill Swap Blissey.Firestorm said:
It can. Smogon doesn't have some of the HG/SS moves up yet. Something that's being worked on I think. There are a lot of projects in progress Smogon right now so I'm sure it's in there somewhere. Twister is 40% chance though while Rock Slide is 60%Little Green Yoda said:
One Smogonite, Fish, actually used Rock Slide Blissey at Phoenix. Unfortunately he got lost in a really ironic match. Instead of him doing the bullshit, his opponent got off everything on him including a paralysis + freeze in the same turn (berry healed one, then the other hit), forgot a bunch, and then all finished off with a critical hit from a fire attack with burn attached. It actually worked pretty well on PO and I'm sure he'd have been mad if he didn't already qualify in Seattle but it was a pretty funny ending to his run considering what he was trying to do.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Firestorm said:
Serebii isn't showing Twister on Togekiss either. Didn't realize it normally only has 20% flinch rate. Rock Slide is still superior after factoring in the 90 accuracy.
lordfroakie
Member
Where can I find some heartscales in HGSS?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Whoo just got Platinum today. I'll probably hold off returning to Sinnoh for a little while, though.
I'll probably hold off returning to Sinnoh for a little while, though.Pureauthor
Member
vectorman06 said:
You see that little red and white thing that came with your game?
Have fun.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Pureauthor said:
Warm Beach right? Yeah it's actually not that hard.
There's also the Luvdisc swarms. Thank God GameFreak made that one of the swarmers.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Pureauthor said:
Also remember to keep your steps as close to 2000 as possible. The odds of getting one actually decrease the higher you go (due to other items becoming available).
Still haven't had a Luvdisc swarm. =/
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
God damn it. I can't seem to assemble a VGC team that doesn't look exactly like zerowing's team. I start teambuilding around Abomasnow because Blizzard is so rad and all, but this invariably leads to adding Kyogre as well because I can't afford to be fucked over by sun teams. Then Palkia seems like the obvious next choice, and at this point the team lacks physical oomph and priority, sooooo...
Are there any simple web apps out there that can return a list of Pokemon that learn a certain combination of moves?
Are there any simple web apps out there that can return a list of Pokemon that learn a certain combination of moves?
Haha, yeah, honestly aside from Hitmontop it is the standard VGC team. Hitmontop's addition just made it an amazing force to be reckoned with. There's a reason it keeps winning. Just beware of Palkia and Toxicroak leads as they counter the Top + Kyogre leads. I've seen people start to use Top + Giratina-O as leads as well.Sixfortyfive said:
Palkia and Giratina are kind of interchangeable.
For moves, I don't know of one but I usually just go to Smogon and click the move I am centring around (in my team's case, Psych Up) and then look at the list of Pokemon and go from there.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I was considering swapping out Palkia for Giratina, but I dunno. Shadow Sneak for priority and Shedinja insurance, but Blizzard / Sucker Punch weak. Can't use Yache on origin form either. Haban Palkia just seems like such a safe bet.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Run Scarftina plus a Fighting type lead with weather changers in the back. <_<
http://www.serebii.net/games/moveset.shtml
for move combos
http://www.serebii.net/games/moveset.shtml
for move combos
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Firestorm said:
:lol Sour grapes?