Support NeoGAF

[Sawneeks]

Finally home for the night.

Let's get down to business.

cue the awesome soundtrack

Which group is the more suspicious to you, the ones who voted for one but not the other, or the people who voted for both Bronx and RF? From all the people listed who is top scum at the moment?

Can I ask the same from you, Ferret? With Royal ( and Ty/Topo ) flipping Town who do you currently Scum read and why?

His gesture is pointless, I don't have another shot, and even if I did I can't fire them off now.

So...you used your only double vote...to prove a point to Splinter..

O-okay?

I think?

Why, is my question. Were you that worried about Splinter that you would waste your PR just to get him off your back?

I was captured by El Topo's trainer during the night phase. The information I received in PM matches both what El Topo told everyone, as well as Ty4on's flip. I can see the previous conversation between the trainer and him. Likewise, I have good reason to believe that, as of right now, the trainer is town. Speaking of which...

I think, on top of there being a killing roll of some sort, there's also probably another scum trainer out there. The nature of our "superior win condition" requires us to also meet the normal condition, and I have no reason to believe this is any different for the scum trainer. I could be wrong tho.

something something now i understand how kark felt in PiR grumble whatever

If you believe there is a Scum Trainer out there, please explain to me how your Mystery Trainer is not that individual. Ty4on flipped Town, Gaga is an unknown but I would love to hear an explanation as to how the Scum Trainer died N1, and that leaves your mystery person. Unless you want to argue we have 4 Trainers instead of 3.

after with what happened in PiR I strongly suggest you consider how much you are willing to trust this person. You may be joyfully conversing with them in a chat but don't let that cloud your read of them. I made that mistake with Kyan, don't do what I did.

Sawneeks, I already addressed my Gorlak vote. I don't have a strong scum read on him, but he was inactive for most of the day and seems to have been forgotten by others.

It reminds others that Gorlak is playing. Someone else who is suspicious of Gorlak may jump on that opportunity. We got 3 late votes on CM because Sophia voted and unvoted, I mentioned a reason for the lack of reaction, and others jumped on.

So you were looking to start a bandwagon, then?

If he isn't your strong Scum Read, then who is? And why didn't you vote for them instead?

Huh... I don't like this.

So we've apparently seen 3 trainers already. Gaga, Ty4on/Gabe, and whoever caught Topo/Sophia.

Ty4on was town, I'll also point out that Gaga is unlikely to be scum as the sole N1 death.

The last trainer has different rules to Ty4on who was definitely town. If they're both town then this feels unfair - a built in flavour trap for town, I don't see Burb doing that. I think Sophia's trainer has to be scum.

Gaga could be Neutral? If there are 3 Trainers out and about catching Pokemon then Burb could have split it up into Town-Neutral-Scum, making it one of each.

Ty4on ( Mr. Gabe Newell himself ) is the Town Trainer
Gaga is more-than-likely the Neutral Trainer since hitting Scum on Night 1 is a one-in-a-million shot. Not to mention there was only 1 kill that Night, so unless Scum hit themselves ( or we have some weird Scum hitting the Doctor and a 3rd party hitting Barry combo ), Neutral is the most likely option.
????? Trainer, whoever Sophia/Topo are connected to is possibly the Scum Trainer.

Although that would eventually lead into a thunderdome situation as well if 2 Trainers flipped and the 3rd was left on their own...

But at the same time, whoever caught Sophia/Topo also apparently roleblocks the Pokemon they capture while Ty was only unable to chat with his caught Pokemon. What if this mystery trainer, in all their generosity, catches the Doctor? Are we just shit out of luck at that point since the Doctor is now forever roleblocked?? I don't know about you but that sounds incredibly anti-Town to me imo.

RIP Ty and Topo; not a good thing to see 5 town flips so far and nothing to show for it. I agree the differences between Sophia's statements and Tys flip are worth considering, specially if the extra win conditions are the same for both trainers but apparently Sophia's gets this extra perk of being part of the chat at no cost.

Other than that I've got nothing, reading through the end of day didn't really change my top scum though I still have a ton of blindspots I should start looking into and hopefully get some decent notes on all players. This week's been rough at work so hopefully I'll be more active during the weekend.

If you agree, why don't you join in the conversation? Sideline commentating is one helluva a way to coast there, Fire.

Could you refresh me on your Top Scum, btw. Also your blindspots list with who you 'plan to look into' later.

Sophia, I voted for you right out the gate because I wanted to check if your Piplup claim was true, as well as check if you still had shots. Your continued survival in the subsequent nights since your outing yourself as a PR, in addition to your contributing to the lynch both days, read very suspiciously to me.

However, now that you have been caught by El Topo's trainer, I'm going to trust their judgment if this is true. It seems that all (catchable) Pokemon are town. I don't want another townie to die, so I'll ease off if you attempt a double. Topo said that his PR is disabled after his trainer caught him, and so even if your power isn't one-shot, your double failing will tell ease my fears about you.
.

....why does it matter to you if she still has any shots left?

and how does her double make you nervous? Scared about getting voted out?

also also how does you voting for her check her Piplup claim????

Vote: TheGoddamn

 

[Blargonaut]

anyway, I think I know who El Topo's Trainer was

You should be careful what you breadcrumb, friend

I'm too good at this

 

[Unmasked Ferret]

Finally home for the night.

Let's get down to business.

cue the awesome soundtrack



Can I ask the same from you, Ferret? With Royal ( and Ty/Topo ) flipping Town who do you currently Scum read and why?

Verelios, nin, and melonrabbit for the reasons I posted before. They aren't great reads though. And I want to see how they post this day phase, since I could still see Verelios really going either way, nin was a minor thing, and melon was less scummy overall in the last day. I also keep forgeting that Ynnek7 is in the game until he post so that might be worth considering. The G is also someone I should pay more attention to. A lot of people seem to kinda fade away for awhile too though.

I should also look back into Topo's, Ty's, and RF's reads and interactions. But I'm going to bed now.

anyway, I think I know who El Topo's Trainer was

You should be careful what you breadcrumb, friend

I'm too good at this

Is it me? I hope its me! Wait no, don't tell me, I want to be surprised.

 

[Blargonaut]

*snip*

Is it me? I hope its me! Wait no, don't tell me, I want to be surprised.

I dunno, do I really want to potentially reveal them like that here?

Could be seen as quite a scummy move, you know; especially since I don't know their alignment, and it'd be a calling-out based solely on noticed breadcrumbs?

Arceus forbid I'm seen as attention-seeking

 

[Blargonaut]

Meanwhile, while I wait for everyone to grovel before me and beg me to tell, I also think I know what Pokemon nin is

~BlarG

 

[Blargonaut]

 

[roytheone]

I also want to hear from Ynnek, CM, Nin, Roy, and LP in regards to your votes on the previous Day phase. They are all ones that stood out to me and I can recall them fairly clearly. My question to you all is why did you vote there instead of Royal and will you be returning to that vote today?

Dusk was my main scum read. He still is my main scum read. I had a null read on Royal. So when I left for my graduation, I felt pretty good about my vote. And while I want too look at other players to prevent tunneling to much, Dusk is still my main scum read so I will most likely be voting for him again.

Huh... I don't like this.

So we've apparently seen 3 trainers already. Gaga, Ty4on/Gabe, and whoever caught Topo/Sophia.

Ty4on was town, I'll also point out that Gaga is unlikely to be scum as the sole N1 death.

The last trainer has different rules to Ty4on who was definitely town. If they're both town then this feels unfair - a built in flavour trap for town, I don't see Burb doing that. I think Sophia's trainer has to be scum.

Hmm, thinking about it, if all 3 known trainers are town that would be weird from a balance standpoint. If we assume that all catchable pokemon are town, then trainers would act as a semi-cop, being able to clear a lot of townies pretty fast simply by seeing who can be caught. Not only that, but the trainer roles have a built in mason chat, which means they wouldn't even have to step forward themselves to clear townies, another team member could do that. Unless scum is insanely powerful to counter that, I just can't see that working from a balance perspective. Which means that not all trainers are town, not all catchable pokemon are town or a combination of both. I am personally leaning towards that last one, so someone being a trainer or a captured pokemon will definitely NOT clear them for me.

Lack of quality and quality. I know it's only me but it seems kinda off. I don't want to be too eager to brush up off like that, that's why I said you can do better. I hope you can show me roy.

Ok, I just wanted to see if your thoughts lined up with mine, because honestly, I agree I am not playing my best game. I am way more busy with work during this game compared to my previous ones, and I have a hard time to find time to look back at people and make reads, unless I was to spend almost all my free time on it. This causes me to have a lot of null reads, which is frustrating.

For anyone keeping score at home, Team Gabe has at most 2 team members:
0 team members (got role blocked, tried capturing a trainer or captured Pokemon, etc.)
1 team member (Topo was Team Gabe, a combination of role block and success, etc.)
2 team members (two captures, Topo was not one of them)

Team Gaga has:
0 team members (got role blocked, N1 capture failed, etc.)
1 team member (N2 capture failed, or Topo was Team Gaga)
2 team members (successful N2 capture)

Doesn't team Gaga have at most 1 team member, since on N1 team gaga didn't caught anyone but instead the trainer-ship moved over? Regardless, I don't think pokemon team sizes are a usefull discussion. This isn't bloodborne where a team would win and make everyone else lose when they got to big. Ty4on's flip made pretty clear that their supreme victory condition doesn't interfere with the normal town one, and they even still need to achieve the town win condition for the supreme one to count.

 

[Blargonaut]

 

[melonrabbit]

What are you waiting for Blarg? When the big reveal and tada?

This thread is needs a doctor, suddenly at a complete stand still.

 

[*Splinter]

Sophia, I voted for you right out the gate because I wanted to check if your Piplup claim was true, as well as check if you still had shots. Your continued survival in the subsequent nights since your outing yourself as a PR, in addition to your contributing to the lynch both days, read very suspiciously to me.

However, now that you have been caught by El Topo's trainer, I'm going to trust their judgment if this is true. It seems that all (catchable) Pokemon are town. I don't want another townie to die, so I'll ease off if you attempt a double. Topo said that his PR is disabled after his trainer caught him, and so even if your power isn't one-shot, your double failing will tell ease my fears about you.



Maybe I missed something, but there actually anything conclusive about Barry's (and his successor's) alignment? There was a lot of redacted stuff in his flip.

El Topo and Sophia didn't get to be a part of the trainer's chat at no cost-- the Pokemon lose their PR. Ty's Pokemon can't talk to him, only to each other, but it looks like they retain their PR. I'm not sure yet which is more advantageous for either trainer.

You didn't answer my question

VOTE: TheGoddamn

 

[Blargonaut]

What are you waiting for Blarg? When the big reveal and tada?

This thread is needs a doctor, suddenly at a complete stand still.

But what about the ramifications of publicly revealing a Trainer's identity though

 

[*Splinter]

Actually I'll break this down because I have multiple problems with this post.

Sophia, I voted for you right out the gate because I wanted to check if your Piplup claim was true,

Wat. Voting Sophia won't somehow confirm that she is Piplup.

as well as check if you still had shots.

This is what I asked you. Why do you need to know if she has more shots or not?

Your continued survival in the subsequent nights since your outing yourself as a PR, in addition to your contributing to the lynch both days, read very suspiciously to me.

Ehhhh maybe, I think there are still too many people who want to lynch her for this to be convincing.

However, now that you have been caught by El Topo's trainer, I'm going to trust their judgment if this is true.

Fucking why?

It seems that all (catchable) Pokemon are town.

WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT???

I don't want another townie to die, so I'll ease off if you attempt a double.

How noble of you.

 

[*Splinter]

That's Roy and GD that have jumped to the assumption that all Pokémon are town. I can't imagine a townie doing that, especially before we've seen a single scum flip.

Roy's post especially reads more like someone complaining about balance - reminds me of HP where every power that was even remotely investigative he would label as a cop.

 

[Fireblend]

If you agree, why don't you join in the conversation? Sideline commentating is one helluva a way to coast there, Fire.

Could you refresh me on your Top Scum, btw. Also your blindspots list with who you 'plan to look into' later.

Uh, I did, that was my way of joining the conversation by pointing out a detail I thought deserved more attention. I didn't follow it up because that was right before I went to bed, did you want me to slam my fist and point fingers? I really don't see the line between sideline commenting and joining the conversation here.

Anyway, blindspots that I can think of are Melon, L_P and Nin, mostly. My top scum atm remain Ynnek, Verelios and I think Salva is starting to raise in that list because of their attitude throughout the game. Also TheGoddamn because man, that post:

Sophia, I voted for you right out the gate because I wanted to check if your Piplup claim was true, as well as check if you still had shots. Your continued survival in the subsequent nights since your outing yourself as a PR, in addition to your contributing to the lynch both days, read very suspiciously to me.

However, now that you have been caught by El Topo's trainer, I'm going to trust their judgment if this is true. It seems that all (catchable) Pokemon are town. I don't want another townie to die, so I'll ease off if you attempt a double. Topo said that his PR is disabled after his trainer caught him, and so even if your power isn't one-shot, your double failing will tell ease my fears about you.

This makes some interesting assumptions. I agree that her participation in both D1 and D2 lynch is weird but then you jump to clear her with some shaky logic: the lack of flavor in her command is still a source of worry for me, Charizard had a way more appropriate name for their command. Piplup has little relation to "double" anything, Sophia could be some other Pokemon (Weezing?) and it's weird that she'd lie like that. You also said all catchable pokemon seem to be town... That's one dangerous assumption, considering this setup seems complex. There could be Rocket-recruitable Pokemon, specially when Team Rocket's shtick is stealing other trainer's Pokemon. How'd you know that's not the case?

Basically, jumptoconclusions.jpg

Also not getting the "trust their judgment" part. What judgment of theirs are you trusting? Catching Sophia? They wouldn't even know what Pokemon she was before successfully capturing her. I really don't understand that line.

El Topo and Sophia didn't get to be a part of the trainer's chat at no cost-- the Pokemon lose their PR. Ty's Pokemon can't talk to him, only to each other, but it looks like they retain their PR. I'm not sure yet which is more advantageous for either trainer.

That is true. I'd say one negatively affects town and one doesn't, though, that seems pretty crucial to me.

 

[melonrabbit]

But what about the ramifications of publicly revealing a Trainer's identity though

Why bring it up then?

Splinter, I agree that The G's overall absence and arguments have been lacking in substance or presence. It has really made me rethink my Darryl = Town stance I haven't been able to shake.

How's everyone feeling about our inactives today? I'm worried that suddenly conversation has dropped significantly compared to D2. I realize schedule shift (hell I'm busy this weekend too) but I'm concerned scum use this lull to their advance. I don't want a scramle to lynch someone "suitable" hours before deadline.

Royal was right that inactives cost us DP and I don't want to repeat that mistake.

 

[Blargonaut]

Why bring it up then?

*snip*

Because I wanna know what everyone else thinks before I do it

 

[Blargonaut]

Also, for begging and groveling

always entertaining

 

[Blargonaut]

*Sp, royt, you're both here too, aren't you

What do you think about begging me for leads?

Is it a worthwhile endeavour?

 

[*Splinter]

Because I wanna know what everyone else thinks before I do it

Eh, we have one person that knows who the trainer is (Sophia) and one who thinks they saw a breadcrumb (you). Unless you're claiming to be the trainer yourself I'm not interested.

 

[*Splinter]

That said, I am back to thinking the trainer is scum for the time being.

 

[melonrabbit]

This makes some interesting assumptions. I agree that her participation in both D1 and D2 lynch is weird but then you jump to clear her with some shaky logic: the lack of flavor in her command is still a source of worry for me, Charizard had a way more appropriate name for their command. Piplup has little relation to "double" anything, Sophia could be some other Pokemon (Weezing?) and it's weird that she'd lie like that. You also said all catchable pokemon seem to be town... That's one dangerous assumption, considering this setup seems complex. There could be Rocket-recruitable Pokemon, specially when Team Rocket's shtick is stealing other trainer's Pokemon. How'd you know that's not the case?

I floated the theory a while back that she could be Team Rocket's Ditto. Though why claim Pokemon at all and lie about what that is seems strange.

 

[Blargonaut]

Eh, we have one person that knows who the trainer is (Sophia) and one who thinks they saw a breadcrumb (you). Unless you're claiming to be the trainer yourself I'm not interested.

oh yeah, that's right, El Topo's Trainer is Sophia's Trainer too, now, yeah

allegedly

Sophia, what do you think about me potentially revealing the identity of your alleged Trainer?

 

[*Splinter]

I floated the theory a while back that she could be Team Rocket's Ditto. Though why claim Pokemon at all and lie about what that is seems strange.

If Sophia was lying she could have picked Doduo or something and skipped this whole discussion.

 

[Blargonaut]

Eh, we have one person that knows who the trainer is (Sophia) and one who thinks they saw a breadcrumb (you). Unless you're claiming to be the trainer yourself I'm not interested.

oh

And what would you do, if I told you I was said Trainer?

 

[*Splinter]

oh yeah, that's right, El Topo's Trainer is Sophia's Trainer too, now, yeah

allegedly

Sophia, what do you think about me potentially revealing the identity of your alleged Trainer?

If that's not the case then the trainer can reveal it themselves and we lynch Sophia.

 

[Blargonaut]

If that's not the case then the trainer can reveal it themselves and we lynch Sophia.

What? Why?

 

[*Splinter]

oh

And what would you do, if I told you I was said Trainer?

Lynch you, presumably.

 

[*Splinter]

What? Why?

Why not?

 

[Blargonaut]

Lynch you, presumably.

So your policy is to lynch revealed Trainers?

 

[Blargonaut]

*Not revealing self as Trainer.

This is all hypothetical, yeah

 

[Blargonaut]

Why not?

But why would knowing her Trainer's identity, suddenly give you an excuse to lynch Sophia?

 

[*Splinter]

So your policy is to lynch revealed Trainers?

No, my policy is to lynch scum, and right now I think Sophia's trainer is more likely scum than not.

But why would knowing her Trainer's identity, suddenly give you an excuse to lynch Sophia?

What? I'd lynch her for telling lies that lead us to lynching her or Topo's trainer.

 

[*Splinter]

*her trainer or Topo's trainer, in case that wasn't clear. Although if they were lies I'd assume she isn't caught.

 

[Fireblend]

I floated the theory a while back that she could be Team Rocket's Ditto. Though why claim Pokemon at all and lie about what that is seems strange.

I mean sure, but I'm really more interested in whether she's lying about her Pokemon/flavor than what Pokemon she actually is if so. Her claiming Piplup *is* weird though; so was wasting her claimed 1-shot double at someone's request.

Regarding Blarg revealing the trainer's identity, I'd rather wait to find out what Sophia thinks about it; both her and her trainer are receiving heat so I want to know if we're forcing them into some sort of prisoner's dilemma situation.

 

[melonrabbit]

If Sophia was lying she could have picked Doduo or something and skipped this whole discussion.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. Unless revealing who she is gives out more information that we suspect. The only confirmed Pokémon with an ability is Charizard and that ability seemingly fits.

Charizard is fire and Piplup is water. Maybe one of each element has ability?

How many Pokémon do we know about so far? 6?

 

[Blargonaut]

I dunno, I can't think of any particular reason(s) why El Topo and/or Soph's Trainer would be scum-aligned, given what we know and what they've claimed

Maybe I missed something?

 

[melonrabbit]

Hmmm.

1. Bronx-Man
2. ??? whoever Barrylocke caught
3. Royal
4. El Topo
5. Sophia, supposedly.

That seem right?

 

[*Splinter]

I dunno, I can't think of any particular reason(s) why El Topo and/or Soph's Trainer would be scum-aligned, given what we know and what they've claimed

Maybe I missed something?

I don't follow. Why couldn't they be scum aligned? It sounds like you are taking them being town aligned as a base assumption, is there any reason to think that?

 

[Blargonaut]

Hmmm.

1. Bronx-Man
2. ??? whoever Barrylocke caught
3. Royal
4. El Topo
5. Sophia, supposedly.

That seem right?

Almost. You forgot nin "Ninetails" 1000, ??-aligned Jack-of-All-Trades Fire-type Pokemon with 1 different power (x-shot?) for each of his mystical 9 tails

probably

NiN? Nine Inch Nails? Ninetails. There was a breadcrumb

Tell me I'm right, nin.

 

[Blargonaut]

I don't follow. Why couldn't they be scum aligned? It sounds like you are taking them being town aligned as a base assumption, is there any reason to think that?

What? How did you get that assumption based on what I asked you?

 

[Fireblend]

I dunno, I can't think of any particular reason(s) why El Topo and/or Soph's Trainer would be scum-aligned, given what we know and what they've claimed

Maybe I missed something?

Just the difference between their effects on caught Pokemon. IMO blocking people from using their PR is negative to town, and I'm not sure a town player would go for this extra victory condition if going for it makes it more difficult for them to accomplish their main one. Sure, they get access to a chat, but is that really worth potentially trading a good PR for?

 

[Blargonaut]

Just the difference between their effects on caught Pokemon. IMO blocking people from using their PR is negative to town, and I'm not sure a town player would go for this extra victory condition if going for it makes it more difficult for them to accomplish their main one. Sure, they get access to a chat, but is that really worth potentially trading a good PR for?

I don't understand

 

[Ynnek7]

Heya, everyone. Sorry I've been quiet so far this day phase. Ended up getting sick thursday, and it's carried into today. I'm feeling it's just a cold, but I haven't felt much like typing anything laying in bed.

I've kept up, though, and saw a few questions towards me that I'll get back to everyone about.

-Ynnek said he considered joining the Royal vote, but didn't since he hadn't got any strong reads. So Ynnek, can you elaborate on your reasons to consider joining the Royal vote while you didn't had a strong read on him?

I also want to hear from Ynnek, CM, Nin, Roy, and LP in regards to your votes on the previous Day phase. They are all ones that stood out to me and I can recall them fairly clearly. My question to you all is why did you vote there instead of Royal and will you be returning to that vote today?

I had considered the Royal vote because at the time it seemed like the most sure thing. If he flipped scum, then it would have been great. If he flipped town, though (and he did), that would have placed me on the shortlist of people who voted two townies out in a row. As of now, its just Sophia/Splinter/Stanley. I'm pretty sure at least one of them might be scum.

My vote on Lone_Prodigy was due to the reasoning a gave in my vote post. He's claiming that his vote was to remind us that Gorlak is in the game, but it definitely seemed like the safest place he could put his vote. I'd probably be willing to put my vote there again today, depending on how things play out.


With the redacted information from the Gaga flip, it's tough to tell whether they were neutral or town, but I definitely think it would be unlikely for scum to lose someone on the first night.

I'm kind of feeling like that may have been the end of the Gaga Team, though. There's a chance that on Night 1 they attempted to catch someone who turned out to be another trainer.

 

[Blargonaut]

Heya, everyone.

*snip*

HI, YNNEK7

Do you want to know a secret?

 

[Fireblend]

I don't understand

What part

 

[*Splinter]

What? How did you get that assumption based on what I asked you?

I tried to bold it but its basically the whole thing:

I dunno, I can't think of any particular reason(s) why El Topo and/or Soph's Trainer would be scum-aligned, given what we know and what they've claimed

Maybe I missed something?

I guess it's more to do with the differences between this trainer and Ty4on

 

[Ynnek7]

Also just realized that there's nothing in the Gabe Newell flip that mentions gaining your pokemons ability, so there goes my theory on that.

 

[Ynnek7]

HI, YNNEK7

Do you want to know a secret?

.... Sure....?

 

[Blargonaut]

I tried to bold it but its basically the whole thing

what, I can't

I guess it's more to do with the differences between this trainer and Ty4on

What differences?

 

[*Splinter]

I'm kind of feeling like that may have been the end of the Gaga Team, though. There's a chance that on Night 1 they attempted to catch someone who turned out to be another trainer.

If that was the case then I think we'd just get the flip. Otherwise we'd never see Gaga's flip and that's a pretty big thing to not know.