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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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J

Jackson50

Member
On of the more bemusing failures of the Obama Administration has been their indolence on judicial appointments. Republican obduracy is obviously an impediment. But even before Democrats lost the supermajority, their behavior was languid. And that's disappointing because the judiciary is one of the primary reasons I support Democrats. Nevertheless, as I've noted before, he's succeeded at diversifying the federal judiciary.
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
pigeon said:
A claim that Obama deliberately set out to promote Ryan as the wonk face of the Republican Party strikes me as pretty eight-dimensional chess, but it's an interesting theory. His budget plan has certainly become an inextricable part of the GOP platform at this point, third rails and all.
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Yeah that does seem ridiculous. Personally - and this doesn't make for a lengthy opinion piece - he put out an idea and got lucky. There aren't many other members of the GOP putting out potential budgets, plus Ryan's captures the mood of a certain, vocal voter. A type of voter that was particularly vocal around the time his budget came to light.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PA court is going to rule on voter ID on the 13th. I heard they're going to actually expand the law to ban anyone in Philadelphia from voting so we can kiss that state goodbye, but Romney's headed for a landslide anyway.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Aaron Strife said:
PA court is going to rule on voter ID on the 13th. I heard they're going to actually expand the law to ban anyone in Philadelphia from voting so we can kiss that state goodbye, but Romney's headed for a landslide anyway.
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With all they've said, there is no way in hell it stays legal. I'll let you pick my avatar if it's not overturned.

Shadow Hog said:
You mean if it's not overturned, clearly?
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Yes that.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Opponents of the law were feeling good. It sure looks like they have cause:

“The state really put up very little defense: hardly any witnesses. Mostly they just said they should be able to do this because they’re the state, and I don’t think that’s going to be sufficient when you’re talking about the state constitution’s protection of the free exercise of the franchise,” Hair said Thursday.

“We think this should be a slam dunk victory for plaintiffs which should result in a preliminary injunction,” she added.

Among the reasons they’re feeling confident (according to an Advancement Project press release): state officials admitted they underestimated the number of registered voters without acceptable photo ID, admitted the law will disenfranchise voters, admitted the law will hold different voters to different standards, admitted voters casting an absentee ballot will be able to vote without ID, Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State admitted she didn’t know details about the law’s requirements and Pennsylvania’s House majority leader made comments opponents of the law believe showed the law is politically motivated.
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S

speculawyer

Member
Frank the Great said:
yeah, it's impossible to "broaden the base" without raising taxes on everyone. could be offset by a huge drop in the marginal rate, but there goes any revenue neutrality.
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What the fuck does "broaden the base" really mean? That seems like a vague nonsense sentence. What base? And what is meant by broadening it?


Romney's talking points on taxes are intentionally misleading. The whole "cut tax rates by 20% and eliminate loopholes" is very misleading. People hear "cut tax rates" and think "I like that". And they hear "eliminate loopholes" and they think of rich people and their magical tax loopholes.

But the biggest "loopholes" (AKA deductions) are the ones ordinary people use . . . mortgage interest deduction, EITC, dependent deduction, state tax deduction, charitable deduction, etc. Many of those are not used by the rich at all (EITC), are so small as to be meaningless for rich people (dependent deduction), or have caps on them (mortgage deduction). Eliminating these 'loopholes' will hit common people more than rich people.

It is nice that the press is FINALLY figuring it out and reporting it.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
speculawyer said:
What the fuck does "broaden the base" really mean? That seems like a vague nonsense sentence. What base? And what is meant by broadening it?


Romney's talking points on taxes are intentionally misleading. The whole "cut tax rates by 20% and eliminate loopholes" is very misleading. People hear "cut tax rates" and think "I like that". And they hear "eliminate loopholes" and they think of rich people and their magical tax loopholes.

But the biggest "loopholes" (AKA deductions) are the ones ordinary people use . . . mortgage interest deduction, EITC, dependent deduction, state tax deduction, charitable deduction, etc. Many of those are not used by the rich at all (EITC), are so small as to be meaningless for rich people (dependent deduction), or have caps on them (mortgage deduction). Eliminating these 'loopholes' will hit common people more than rich people.

It is nice that the press is FINALLY figuring it out and reporting it.
Click to expand...

"broaden the base" means somehow getting the people that don't pay income taxes to start paying. but, as you have implied, the only reason so many people don't pay taxes is because their income is covered by deductions/credits. so if we get rid of the deductions/credits, we raise taxes on everyone.

i've actually heard conservatives suggest that we get around this and "broaden the base" by requiring people whose income falls below a certain level to pay a special "surchage" tax. yup, a tax penalty for being poor.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Frank the Great said:
"broaden the base" means somehow getting the people that don't pay income taxes to start paying. but, as you have implied, the only reason so many people don't pay taxes is because their income is covered by deductions/credits. so if we get rid of the deductions/credits, we raise taxes on everyone.

i've actually heard conservatives suggest that we get around this and "broaden the base" by requiring people whose income falls below a certain level to pay a special "surchage" tax. yup, a tax penalty for being poor.
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That is the stupidest thing I have EVER heard. EVER. I hope to god you punched the shit out of that person for being so god damn stupid.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Plinko said:
Am I misreading this poll, or did they really poll 459 Republicans and 813 Democrats? Because, if so, LOL. 599 independents and Romney is winning there.
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No but if you look right below that at ideology the poll skews more heavily conservative/independent that liberal.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Holy shit. 10 point lead?

Well, then.
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Clearly an outlier, but still worth noting.

I think Obama's team feels they have defined Romney enough to connect some dots for the next phase of the campaign. I expect this phrase to be used heavily going forward:

Obama: Romney Wants To Give ‘People Like Him’ A Tax Cut

President Obama in Florida today said Mitt Romney wants the middle class to pay more in taxes so “people like him can pay less.”

Obama used the line on Wednesday after a new nonpartisan study suggested Romney’s tax plan would give only the wealthiest Americans a tax break.
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That's a similar framing as Obama's new ad, which was posted earlier.

On the same subject, I recommend Brian Beutler's post from this morning on the pivot, and the way the Tax Policy Center study enables it.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/08/romneys_reverse_robin_hood_problem.php?ref=fpblg
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
B-Dubs said:
No but if you look right below that at ideology the poll skews more heavily conservative/independent that liberal.
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But that GOP/DEM gap is HUGE. This poll shouldn't be given any thought whatsoever.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Quick question: Why hasn't anyone (as far as I know) sat down and literally reviewed every single tax law and all of their various loop holes and proposed a bill that specifically closes EACH AND EVERY single one of them?
 
R

RDreamer

Member
That poll is kind of weird to look at how things break down. The fact that it skews so heavily conservative compared to liberal, yet also skews more democrat than republican is interesting. I guess a large part of that could be because the word "liberal" has been painted as a bad word, but I do wonder how much of that is conservatives abandoning the Republican label now, because of the recent changes.

Edit: Actually, the breakdowns of ideology on there follow closely with this gallup poll.

Americans in that poll described themselves as 41% conservative, 36% moderate, and 21% liberal.

This Pew Poll we're talking about breaks down to 39.54% conservative, 37.28% moderate, and 23.1% liberal.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
From my edit on the previous page to give some context:Edit: Actually, the breakdowns of ideology on there follow closely with this gallup poll.

Americans in that poll described themselves as 41% conservative, 36% moderate, and 21% liberal.

This Pew Poll we're talking about breaks down to 39.54% conservative, 37.28% moderate, and 23.1% liberal.



Further numbers from that Pew poll and comparing it to average America through this gallup poll:

Gallup puts Americans in 2011 into: Republican 27%, Democrat 31%, and Independent 40%

That pew poll breaks down to: Republican 24.9%, Democrat: 43.45%, and Independent: 32%

So, even though they got the ideology close, the numbers didn't work out as far as party affiliations. Republicans polled are close, though.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Plinko said:
But that GOP/DEM gap is HUGE. This poll shouldn't be given any thought whatsoever.
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Registered Democrats have always outnumbered registered Republicans. A lot of this has to do with the Dixiecrat phenomenon in southern states where people are registered as Democrats but vote Republican.

In any case, weighing by party generally doesn't significantly skew results (unless it's being done deliberately). PPP only weighs by gender and race and they usually do pretty well.

Not saying this poll isn't an outlier (it probably is) but Pew is the best in the country for national polls, better than Gallup who the media loves to hobnob.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Here's some other detailed things from Pew



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S

speculawyer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Quick question: Why hasn't anyone (as far as I know) sat down and literally reviewed every single tax law and all of their various loop holes and proposed a bill that specifically closes EACH AND EVERY single one of them?
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Because the reverse happened.

Lobbyists and special interest groups proposed and got passed EACH AND EVERY single loophole to benefit their special interest group.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
gcubed said:
Same


And on the note about the house being good but the senate not passing its bills.... the house spent the day arguing a bill that would define English as the official language.
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Boehner's House is one of the most ineffective in history.

When Pelosi was in charge shit got done though.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Boehner: President Obama ‘has never had a real job, for God’s sake’

Republican House Speaker John Boehner ripped into President Barack Obama during an interview Thursday with Fox News Radio's "Kilmeade and Friends," accusing him of never having "a real job."

From the interview transcript:

Boehner: "Sometimes I have to catch my breath and slow down because the rhetoric in this campaign is just so over the top. And that's because the President's policies have failed. Listen — 93% of Americans believe they're a part of the middle class. That's why you hear the President talk about the middle class every day, because he's talking to 93% of the American people. But the President has never created a job. He's never even had a real job for [God's] sake. And I can tell you from my dealings with him, he has no idea how the real world, that we actually live in, works."

The Ohio Republican was responding to a question about Obama's comments about building the economy "from the middle class" and not "from the top down."
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Last time I checked, being a teacher/lecturer was a "real job".
 
A

adamsappel

Member
Wilsongt said:
Boehner: President Obama ‘has never had a real job, for God’s sake’

Last time I checked, being a teacher/lecturer was a "real job".
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I hate when the librul media changes what people actually say. Inferring from the url description, Boehner actually said "For Christ's sake," which is arguably more profane, and certainly more blasphemous, but not worthy of actually censoring. But since it might irritate Christian sensibilities, it gets changed.
 
K

kehs

Banned
Good afternoon --
Last night, Republicans in the House of Representatives voted to shower the wealthiest two percent of people in America with a $1 trillion tax cut. That's what they're demanding in return for keeping taxes low for the middle class.

But here's the other thing that has happened over the past week: Tens of thousands of you from all across the country have started speaking out about why it's so important to prevent taxes from going up on 114 million middle-class families on January 1.

And tomorrow, when President Obama calls on Congress to stop holding the middle class tax cuts hostage, a group of you who have shared your stories on the White House website will be standing there beside him.

Even if you aren't one of the people in the room, we want you to tune in to hear what the President has to say. Will you watch with us tomorrow at 11:45 a.m. EDT?

WHAT: President Obama speaks on the middle-class tax cuts
WHEN: Friday, August 3 at 11:45 a.m. EDT
WHERE: WhiteHouse.gov/We-Need-You

As dysfunctional as Washington can be, this fight is far from hopeless. We saw that last week when Republicans and Democrats in the Senate agreed to allow a vote on extending the middle-class tax cuts, and the legislation passed. Now the House needs to follow the Senate's lead and vote to ensure taxes don't go up on the middle class.
With so many of you adding your voices to the President's, we have a real chance to cut through the partisanship and the noise to get this done -- because the arguments we've heard from real people are all powerful.

Eileen from California wrote in to argue that "The middle class is the backbone of America. When the middle class thrives, so does America."

Katherine from Virginia told us "No one wants to pay more than their fair share of taxes, but the wealthiest of Americans CAN manage it, while still allowing the economy to continue to recover fully."

As it stands right now, House Republicans are the only folks in Washington who are willing to let a typical family of four pay an extra $2,200 in taxes next year. And if you continue to weigh in on this debate, they'll have to realize just how isolated they really are. So take the next step tomorrow and watch President Obama:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/we-need-you
Thanks,
David
David Plouffe
Senior Advisor to the President
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/08/02/david-plouffe-president-obama-talking-taxes-tomorrow
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
AlteredBeast said:
Has Romney released a tax plan? As far as I know he has not. If so, that is some weird BS by the Obama camp. Especially since it gives leverage to Romney to proactively set his in stone to make it look better. Dumb move.
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Has he released any plan, for anything? I seriously have no idea at all what he plans to do about anything at all...
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Presented without comment:

the guardian said:
Ann Romney's horse fails to win dressage but avoids offending British

Short of mocking Shetland ponies over their lack of stature or laying into zebras for their failure to make a significant contribution to the world of equine culture, Ann Romney's horse Rafalca was always going to struggle to match the sheer incredulity that her husband managed to provoke on his recent overseas trip.
...
Never for a second during her seven-minute performance did a hoof stray dangerously mouthwards, nor did she do anything at all to offend or upset the host nation. From the moment she entered the Greenwich Park equestrian arena at 12.15 on Thursday afternoon, the most famous political horse since Caligula toyed with making a consul of Incitatus seemed in her element.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/02/ann-romney-horse-dressage-medal?INTCMP=SRCH
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Wilsongt said:
Boehner: President Obama ‘has never had a real job, for God’s sake’



Last time I checked, being a teacher/lecturer was a "real job".
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Something tells me Boehner's not feeling good about his chances at being Speaker next year. Talk about a meltdown.

Black Republican said:
hilary is 2016;-)
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hillary is 44

PhoenixDark said:
Never going to happen, given her Wall St stances. I'll be surprised if she even beats Brown
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I won't be. Scott Brown is another Romney - an empty suit with no ideas, and Warren is running in one of the bluest states in the country. Of all the potential pickups, Mass is easily the lowest-hanging fruit for Democrats.
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
adamsappel said:
I hate when the librul media changes what people actually say. Inferring from the url description, Boehner actually said "For Christ's sake," which is arguably more profane, and certainly more blasphemous, but not worthy of actually censoring. But since it might irritate Christian sensibilities, it gets changed.
Click to expand...

The original article said Christ, but there was an error from the transcription from Fox they used.

It's just a feature of the CMS's these sites use so as to maintain the same permanent link. Can cause weird issues, yes.
 
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