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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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R

RDreamer

Member
Loudninja said:
Romney: Obama’s ‘Taking The Work Out Of Welfare’

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/romney-obamas-taking-work-out-of-welfare

What?
Click to expand...

I don't fucking get it. I just don't. Republican governors along with Romney himself asked for this exact same flexibility back in 2005.

Really, this whole campaign is straight up fucking alarming. They've barely run on anything that was straight up true yet. Everything is lie, distortion, near complete fabrication, or taken completely out of context. If Obama is such a bad president, run agains that guy. If Obama's such a bad president you shouldn't need to make this shit up. This is just reprehensible, and I worry for our democracy if Romney actually gets away with this shit and wins.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This work/welfare thing cannot possibly appeal to independent voters. It only riles the far-right, which puzzles me as to why he's doing it.

Romney's #1 problem right now is that he comes off as an out-of-touch rich guy who hates the poor and wants to benefit the rich.

Hitting the work/welfare thing only intensifies that persona.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
RDreamer said:
I don't fucking get it. I just don't. Republican governors along with Romney himself asked for this exact same flexibility back in 2005.

Really, this whole campaign is straight up fucking alarming. They've barely run on anything that was straight up true yet. Everything is lie, distortion, near complete fabrication, or taken completely out of context. If Obama is such a bad president, run agains that guy. If Obama's such a bad president you shouldn't need to make this shit up. This is just reprehensible, and I worry for our democracy if Romney actually gets away with this shit and wins.
Click to expand...
Honestly? So do I. As this continues and he continues to get away with it I start to worry more and more about future elections. Someone used the phrase "post-truth campaign" the other day.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Until we get a media with some balls that isn't afraid to stand up and point out lies, I'm worried.

It's incredibly sad when your comedy shows have to be the ones that do the most important job out there for media.
 
T

thezerofire

Banned
Saw my first Romney bumper sticker today. But then again, this is Orange County, it's not too surprising.

Here's the newspaper (OC Register) from today:
3Dc37.jpg

kMajB.jpg


Oblivion said:
Romney truly is the worst politician ever.

Well, at least he still has his:

-record as Gov. of Mass.
-record at Bain
-record on the Olympics
-role as husband and father
Click to expand...
Well, he's on the record as being an asshole about his wife's horse in the Olympics, so I'm not sure about the husband part
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Plinko said:
Until we get a media with some balls that isn't afraid to stand up and point out lies, I'm worried.

It's incredibly sad when your comedy shows have to be the ones that do the most important job out there for media.
Click to expand...

This wasn't even on my radar as a problem until the last few months, I assumed that if he blatantly lied about something big the media would call him on it. That's how its supposed to work, right? Has any previous presidential campaign in recent memory gotten away with so much outright distortion from either side of the race?
 
R

RDreamer

Member
The problem is that you can't fight complete and utter lies with the truth if no one else is there pointing out the lies. You just can't, because it becomes a he-said she-said affair. If Romney actually wins this on the back of all these fabrications what route do the dems have left? Lies.
If that's what wins then they'll have to play that game. You can't bring a knife to a gun fight.

That's the problem I'm seeing now. The only places calling out lies are the same partisan talk shows that will point out anything on the other side anyway, so it does no good.


As for the welfare/work thing, I think that it does actually resonate with some independents, honestly. I've seen many even democratic leaning young people passing around stupid anti welfare shit on Facebook and spouting it off in real life, talking about how they work so welfare people can sit on their butts all day. It's alarming.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
thezerofire said:
Saw my first Romney bumper sticker today. But then again, this is Orange County, it's not too surprising.
Click to expand...

I saw my first Romney bumper sticker the other day, too.

Then I noticed the license plate: Georgia!
 
B

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
RDreamer said:
As for the welfare/work thing, I think that it does actually resonate with some independents, honestly. I've seen many even democratic leaning young people passing around stupid anti welfare shit on Facebook and spouting it off in real life, talking about how they work so welfare people can sit on their butts all day. It's alarming.
Click to expand...

Ayup.

"I spent six years in college (on my parents' dime) and now bust my ass at a $30K/year job (that college kids should be doing), THEM POORS AIN'T GETTIN' NOTHING FROM ME."
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
RDreamer said:
As for the welfare/work thing, I think that it does actually resonate with some independents, honestly. I've seen many even democratic leaning young people passing around stupid anti welfare shit on Facebook and spouting it off in real life, talking about how they work so welfare people can sit on their butts all day. It's alarming.
Click to expand...

Funny how it always is about welfare/foodstamps but when it's financial aid, these same people throw a hissy fit.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Another serious issue with lies is that they are often simple and intuitively easy to understand -- the good lies are, at least.

The problem with the truth is that it is often complicated and doesn't pander to one "side" or another. It takes time to explain and many people still may not understand it.

This produces an asymmetry where it's easier and faster to throw out a huge wealth of lies than it is to rebut them. This is often referred to as the "Gish gallop," named after famous creationist proponent Duane Gish, whose debate style relied heavily on rapid firing so many lies and distortions that an evolutionary biologist couldn't hope to refute them in the allotted time.

Similarly in the political realm, there is so much spin, so many facts and figures to digest, that an average newscaster simply can't rebut them in an efficient time span.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
PPP shows Obama leading in NC again. That is the only Swing state where polling averages show Romney with a lead over Obama

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-leads-romney-favorability.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

All because of Transits

Even more telling is Obama’s standing with the newest group of North Carolina residents; among those who have lived in the state for 10 years or less, a group that constitutes 11% of the voting population, Obama leads by 39 points. Romney’s share of the vote generally increases with length of NC residence, peaking at +14 with those who have lived in North Carolina for 40 years or more.
Click to expand...

Also, would you pay 15 cents more per Pizza so that Papa Johns can provide Healthcare for its employees?

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/papa-johns-obamacare-will-raise-pizza-prices-131331.html

What a joke.
 
T

thezerofire

Banned
Good news apparently for Portman being VP:

One Clue To Romney's Veep Pick: Whose Wiki Page Is Getting The Most Edits?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/08/07/158320294/one-clue-to-romneys-veep-pick-whose-wiki-page-is-getting-the-most-edits?ft=1&f=1014&sc=tw

Reddit post discussing it, with stuff like the Controversies section edited out, stuff about NAFTA taken out, and all of it done by one user who's account was since deleted
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xtq0z/one_clue_to_romneys_veep_pick_whose_wiki_page_is/

Apparently it's also being vandalized so take with a grain of salt
 
R

RDreamer

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Also, would you pay 15 cents more per Pizza so that Papa Johns can provide Healthcare for its employees?

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/papa-johns-obamacare-will-raise-pizza-prices-131331.html

What a joke.
Click to expand...

And ladies and gentlemen, here's the American business. They'll do everything they can in order to protect their shareholders best interests, but they won't do everything they can to give their employees healthcare. Now why, again, are we putting our healthcare system into private hands? This is precisely the reasoning why this shit doesn't work, and why Obamacare is a bandaid. It's a needed bandaid, sure, but it doesn't go nearly far enough...
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Anybody see the new Bain story floating around? It's the reason why Romney skipped Italy during his foreign trip.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-in-italy-for-bain-s-deal-skirting-taxes.html

cartoon_soldier said:
PPP shows Obama leading in NC again. That is the only Swing state where polling averages show Romney with a lead over Obama

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-leads-romney-favorability.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

All because of Transits
Click to expand...
I remember some members on here coming to the conclusion that the reason why Virginia and NC went blue was because of the "fundamentals of 2008" more than anything.

I hope the latest batch of polls has convinced them that wasn't the case. There are shifts going on in those two states that's making them more competitive.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
NC was one state I had kind of given up on, but I would love it to stay competitve. Hopefully the DNC can fire up the base in the state and keep it going through November.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
One outlier NC poll and now Obama will certainly win NC? Come on. It's very close there, and I'd give Romney the edge in part due to gay marriage and the poor state economy in urban areas. The convention could certainly tip things - really, it's probably the best place to hold it. Virginia is looking stronger than just leaning Obama right now, and if Obama narrowly wins NC too there's no way Romney can win.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Damn, looking more and more likely that Obama wins re-election with 350+ EVs again. I always figured he'd win, but I thought it would at least be closer this time around.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
PhoenixDark said:
One outlier NC poll and now Obama will certainly win NC? Come on. It's very close there, and I'd give Romney the edge in part due to gay marriage and the poor state economy in urban areas. The convention could certainly tip things - really, it's probably the best place to hold it. Virginia is looking stronger than just leaning Obama right now, and if Obama narrowly wins NC too there's no way Romney can win.
Click to expand...

Hey, did you read the part where people said Obama will certainly win NC? Yeah, neither did I.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
One outlier NC poll and now Obama will certainly win NC? Come on. It's very close there, and I'd give Romney the edge in part due to gay marriage and the poor state economy in urban areas. The convention could certainly tip things - really, it's probably the best place to hold it. Virginia is looking stronger than just leaning Obama right now, and if Obama narrowly wins NC too there's no way Romney can win.
Click to expand...
Who said this?

Edit: Beaten by RustyNails. Looks like I'm not the only one who noticed PD's wild misreading of the last few posts.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Opiate said:
Another serious issue with lies is that they are often simple and intuitively easy to understand -- the good lies are, at least.

The problem with the truth is that it is often complicated and doesn't pander to one "side" or another. It takes time to explain and many people still may not understand it.

This produces an asymmetry where it's easier and faster to throw out a huge wealth of lies than it is to rebut them. This is often referred to as the "Gish gallop," named after famous creationist proponent Duane Gish, whose debate style relied heavily on rapid firing so many lies and distortions that an evolutionary biologist couldn't hope to refute them in the allotted time.

Similarly in the political realm, there is so much spin, so many facts and figures to digest, that an average newscaster simply can't rebut them in an efficient time span.
Click to expand...

Hence the usefulness (in general) of the fairness doctrine, much maligned by the right. The repeal of that doctrine has given rise to the inundation of the American public (and conservatives in particular) with so much bullshit.

Also refund public broadcasting.
 
N

NathanMcMahon

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
One outlier NC poll and now Obama will certainly win NC? Come on. It's very close there, and I'd give Romney the edge in part due to gay marriage and the poor state economy in urban areas. The convention could certainly tip things - really, it's probably the best place to hold it. Virginia is looking stronger than just leaning Obama right now, and if Obama narrowly wins NC too there's no way Romney can win.
Click to expand...

wow, on a role with the fucking projecting. you should stop spouting so much bullshit. any other straw men you want to hold up?
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
my college classmates who have worked for Papa John's in the past will get a kick out of it.

I've seen a few Romney stickers in LA. Mainly on dilapidated work trucks.
 
C

codhand

Member
Tim-E said:
People struggling to make end's meet on minimum wage working 30 hours a week can now get healthcare coverage. THE HORROR.
Click to expand...

People are scum bags for real. The old scam was 39 hour work weeks to avoid having to cover Full-Time employees, I bet we see that or a similar trend rise again, so that these douche nozzles can offset any healthcare costs. Bottom line, Papa John's pizza is fucking terrible.
 
C

codhand

Member
I want a landslide, Mondale style, I'll pay 15 cents extra for that pie.


"You took Obamacare so far but you left me like a dog strapped on Romney's car."

Omg, he's totes bi-partisan, this must be true then. dada dada dada da da da da daaaa
 
C

codhand

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Oh give me a break. Does Sesame Street offend your sensibilities?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing he means re, fund them.


92 year old lady showing me the dreaded chain emails yesterday, asking what I thought of the fact Obama had his hand on the wrong side of chest during National Anthem, I said I haven't seen that one, but I guarantee it's another fictitious character assassination attempt. She said "Why, they think he's a Muslim don't they?" Yes, yes they do....
 
T

Tim-E

Member
I played the Political Machine 2012 and the first game I played was Obama v. Romney and I won with Obama 358 to 176 EV. In my game Obama won West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Arkansas but I lost Colorado, Nevada, Hawaii and Indiana. The rest was the same as 08.

My next campaign will be played with the ticket of Herman Cain and Donald Trump.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Papa John said:
"Our best estimate is that the Obamacare will cost 11 to 14 cents per pizza, or 15 to 20 cents per order from a corporate basis."

"We're not supportive of Obamacare, like most businesses in our industry. But our business model and unit economics are about as ideal as you can get for a food company to absorb Obamacare."

"If Obamacare is in fact not repealed, we will find tactics to shallow out any Obamacare costs and core strategies to pass that cost onto consumers in order to protect our shareholders best interests."
Click to expand...

What a shitty trio of sentiments. Also your employees will have health insurance. Asshole.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Tim-E said:
It is still likely Romney for now, but if this is the beginning of a trend that other polls start to pick up on, it'll move back into toss-up territory.
Click to expand...
I would strongly hesitate to call North Carolina a Likely R state at any point in time. Lean at most.

I think Obama has about a 50/50 chance of winning it this year.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
"If Obamacare is in fact not repealed, we will find tactics to shallow out any Obamacare costs and core strategies to pass that cost onto consumers in order to protect our shareholders best interests," Schnatter vowed.
Click to expand...

Who the hell says something like this?
 
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