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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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S

speculawyer

Member
Making new friends where ever he goes.

Romney’s wind energy stance puts him at odds with key Iowa Republicans

DES MOINES—When Mitt Romney arrives for a fundraiser with local Republicans Tuesday evening, one topic sure to come up could put his efforts to win Iowa this November at serious risk.

Last week, as Romney was winding up a rocky overseas tour, his campaign made front-page news when a spokesman for the GOP candidate told the Des Moines Register Romney opposes a renewal of a tax credit for wind energy suppliers, which is set to expire at the end of this year.

"He will allow the wind credit to expire, end the stimulus boondoggles, and create a level playing field on which all sources of energy can compete on their merits," Romney spokesman Shawn McCoy told the Register. "Wind energy will thrive wherever it is economically competitive, and wherever private sector competitors with far more experience than the president believe the investment will produce results."

It's a stance that isn't surprising, given that Romney regularly mocks President Barack Obama's investments in green energy as a waste of time and money when the nation faces both an energy and fiscal crisis.

But McCoy's comments immediately caused a stir in Iowa, which is home to more wind energy jobs than any other state in the country. And it unsettled many of Romney's top Iowa supporters, who publicly complained they had been caught off guard by his campaign's policy decision.

On Capitol Hill, Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley trashed the former Massachusetts governor's campaign for not talking to him first. "Nobody consulted us on this," Grassley told Roll Call.
Click to expand...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-wind-energy-stance-puts-him-odds-key-194015220.html

So are you going to flip-flop, Mitt? Or should we just put Iowa in the Obama column.
 
F

Four_Chamber

Member
PPP today showing Obama leads in Colorado and North Carolina. I'm getting more and more optimistic but definitely not complacent. Obama has momentum right now but still a long ways to go.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Yep he is making a ton of friends

Mitt Romney: America Is Not A Kibbutz
Days after praising Israel in Jerusalem, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney took a shot at kibbutzim, arguing in favor of American individualism and entrepreneurship.

"What America is not [is] a collective where we all work in a kibbutz," Romney said at a fundraiser at a downtown Chicago restaurant. "Instead it's individuals pursuing their dreams and building successful enterprises which employ others and they become inspired as they see what has happened in the place they work and go off and start their own enterprises."

It was an odd comment for Romney, especially considering that he argued that Israel's culture made the difference in its economic success. Kibbutzim, or collective farms, were essential building blocks in making Jewish settlements in Palestine and ultimately made the creation and growth of the state of Israel even possible
Click to expand...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/mitt-romney-kibbutz_n_1753185.html
 
P

Plumbob

Member
Mike M said:
I'm not very comfortable with the idea of Reid just making this up out of whole cloth just to box Romney into releasing actual, damaging information or suffer the damage from made-up information. If it legitimately was a tip off, that's one thing, but if it's just a ploy to goad Romney into campaign suicide... That's not an action I can support.
Click to expand...

Let's be real here: Romney paid taxes. Should he release his returns? Sure. But Reid's tactic is playing guilty until proven innocent, which is something Democrats should be better than.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
Four_Chamber said:
PPP today showing Obama leads in Colorado and North Carolina. I'm getting more and more optimistic but definitely not complacent. Obama has momentum right now but still a long ways to go.
Click to expand...

like i said if Romney doesnt even get a small but noticable bounce after the convention he's already toast. The fact he's still in negative ratings at this moment for a gop candidate not seen since Dole is......well damn.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
speculawyer said:
Making new friends where ever he goes.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-wind-energy-stance-puts-him-odds-key-194015220.html

So are you going to flip-flop, Mitt? Or should we just put Iowa in the Obama column.
Click to expand...


"He will allow the wind credit to expire, end the stimulus boondoggles, and create a level playing field on which all sources of energy can compete on their merits," Romney spokesman Shawn McCoy told the Register. "Wind energy will thrive wherever it is economically competitive, and wherever private sector competitors with far more experience than the president believe the investment will produce results."
Click to expand...


Just fuck me dead right now.

We all know what Romney would say if someone proposed ending the massive subsidies to oil companies.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
"What America is not [is] a collective where we all work in a kibbutz," Romney said at a fundraiser at a downtown Chicago restaurant. "Instead it's individuals pursuing their dreams and building successful enterprises which employ others and they become inspired as they see what has happened in the place they work and go off and start their own enterprises."
Click to expand...

So America is not a collective where we work collectively. It's a place where individuals pursuing their dreams work collectively with others in an enterprise.

You see the difference? One is a collective with collective work. And the other is not a collective with collective work.
 
A

Allard

Member
Mercury Fred said:
Agreed, why should the left play fair all of the time when no one in the GOP would ever dream of playing fair even for a moment.
Click to expand...

I really don't think we should fight fire like that, I would hope to keep the democratic party above that as its one of the many reasons I have publicly supported them. Like others have said I really hope Reid isn't 'just' doing it as a political ploy as I hate guilty till proven innocent rhetoric and why I have been cautious about the accusation. But unlike a lot hearsay juxtapositions in the past, Romney has already been proven guilty once on lying about his taxes for a political ploy so at this point it really is up to Romney to shut people up as he and only he can stop it. Till he does so, as far as I am concerned he is free game on his taxes since his infamous Massachusetts governor run proved he can't be trusted on the subject.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Mercury Fred said:
Agreed, why should the left play fair all of the time when no one in the GOP would ever dream of playing fair even for a moment.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The GOP has literally gotten away with outright lying, slandering the President's name, calling him unamerican, using dog whistle comments to refer to his race, etc.

Compared to this, what Reid did was absolutely fair game.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Mike M said:
I'm not very comfortable with the idea of Reid just making this up out of whole cloth just to box Romney into releasing actual, damaging information or suffer the damage from made-up information. If it legitimately was a tip off, that's one thing, but if it's just a ploy to goad Romney into campaign suicide... That's not an action I can support.
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Yeah. I'd prefer Reid just present the evidence. Leave the guileful nonsense to the Republicans.
Jimothy said:
STOP

CALLING

IT

OBAMACARE

Affordable Care Act, please. I assume anyone who uses "Obamacare" is a shitbag conservative.
Click to expand...
"I'm Invisible_Insane, and I approve this message."
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Wow you guys are pussies. Reid's the man.

Stop kidding yourselves men, you know you're all giddy about what he's doing. Don't have to be all pc on GAF.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
Mike M said:
I'm not very comfortable with the idea of Reid just making this up out of whole cloth just to box Romney into releasing actual, damaging information or suffer the damage from made-up information. If it legitimately was a tip off, that's one thing, but if it's just a ploy to goad Romney into campaign suicide... That's not an action I can support.
Click to expand...

http://www.sawxblog.com/2011/10/unidentified-sources-cowards-booze.html

The great Hunter S. Thompson wrote about the first time Lyndon Johnson was elected to Congress in 1948 in his book "Better Than Sex: Confessions of a Political Junkie", and the below is a quote from this account:

Lyndon was running about 10 points behind, with only nine days to go... He was sunk in despair. He was desperate... he called his equally depressed campaign manager and instructed him to call a press conference at two or two-thirty (just after lunch on a slow news day) and accuse his high-riding opponent (the pig farmer) of having routine carnal knowledge of his barnyard sows, despite the pleas of his wife and children... His campaign manager was shocked. 'We can't say that, Lyndon,' he said. 'It's not true.' 'Of course it's not,' Johnson barked at him, 'but let's make the bastard deny it.'
Click to expand...
 
A

Averon

Member
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-cuts-even-if-it-means-more-taxes.php?ref=fpb

Defense Industry Leans On Congress — Avoid Cuts, Even If It Means More Taxes
The very real possibility that defense programs will suffer deep, across the board spending cuts early next year has major defense contractors and their allies making an unusual plea to members of Congress: Put everything on the table to avoid the so-called sequester — including higher taxes.

That might not sound like an extraordinary ask. But it’s typical for incumbent interests to leave all questions of ways and means to Congress. And given the defense industry’s enormous power and historic alignment with the GOP, it could have enough force to finally break the GOP of its anti-tax absolutism.
Click to expand...


It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, especially if Obama is re-elected. The politics and dynamics of the debate has shifted into the Dems favor.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
The fact that liberals support Reid playing dirty while they would have been screaming from the rooftops if a conservative did the same thing proves liberals are a million times worse hypocrites.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Oblivion said:
The fact that liberals support Reid playing dirty while they would have been screaming from the rooftops if a conservative did the same thing proves liberals are a million times worse hypocrites.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'd be screaming for my candidate to get the fuck out the way and let someone else run.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Let's say Romney is trying to hide the amnesty for his Swiss bank account and the gifts to his children. If he wants to keep that under lid, then why not release a simple 1040 - EZ tax returns which are not itemized? Just list basic numbers like how much income he had, how many deductions he took, and the final amount he paid in taxes. Then you can come to his tax percentage without getting into any of the other stuff. Solves the Reid thing quite easily if you ask me.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Dr. Pangloss said:
Let's say Romney is trying to hide the amnesty for his Swiss bank account and the gifts to his children. If he wants to keep that under lid, then why not release a simple 1040 - EZ tax returns which are not itemized? Just list basic numbers like how much income he had, how many deductions he took, and the final amount he paid in taxes. Then you can come to his tax percentage without getting into any of the other stuff. Solves the Reid thing quite easily if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Romney likely doesn't want people to see the percentage he paid
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Oblivion said:
The fact that liberals support Reid playing dirty while they would have been screaming from the rooftops if a conservative did the same thing proves liberals are a million times worse hypocrites.
Click to expand...

No, I think I'd be screaming for a fucking candidate that didn't have to hide his goddamned tax returns... Why the hell should I defend that practice, even if they're a democrat? Again, this is a precedent that has been set. If Obama wasn't releasing his and we had probable cause to believe there was something in there that we should know, and he had lied about his taxes before you had better bet I'd be on the side of the ones telling him to release the damned things and get over it.

To me by not releasing them and by running on a tax platform like Mitt is, I believe he's already playing dirty. And sometimes when someone won't play ball, you've got to get a bit dirty. In an unfair fight you can't fight fair and win.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Oblivion said:
The fact that liberals support Reid playing dirty while they would have been screaming from the rooftops if a conservative did the same thing proves liberals are a million times worse hypocrites.
Click to expand...

(lol)

But seriously, most of you know I like the game of politics a lot, which is why I love the wonkishness of Hardball and Ezra Klein so much. I like politics itself -- the dirt, the muck, all of it. And yes of course big-C Conservative tactics piss me off! That doesn't mean I don't respect it, and that doesn't mean I don't want those advocating for positions that I believe in to do the exact same fucking thing.

Liberals, you've cried for years about Rove, whined for years that Democrats didn't fight back, didn't get dirty, didn't go for the low blow or for the cheap shot, weren't willing to do whatever it takes to see their agenda (the correct agenda, according to you) come to fruition. I don't wanna see you bitching about Reid for another second. He's been a puppet master for some time. It's good to see he can transition a bit and kinda shit all over the club that's been trying to shit on him for so many years.

Sit down, shut up, and learn from the pros. And no more complaints about not fighting back if you don't like the way the sausage is made.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Dr. Pangloss said:
Let's say Romney is trying to hide the amnesty for his Swiss bank account and the gifts to his children. If he wants to keep that under lid, then why not release a simple 1040 - EZ tax returns which are not itemized? Just list basic numbers like how much income he had, how many deductions he took, and the final amount he paid in taxes. Then you can come to his tax percentage without getting into any of the other stuff. Solves the Reid thing quite easily if you ask me.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting point. So things are even more complicated than just the amnesty.

Man, this is starting to become a fascinating puzzle. What could possibly be so bad in there? I hope we find out one day, but I guess we probably won't until the first unauthorized Romney biography comes out in like twenty years.
 
W

werks

Banned
Oblivion said:
The fact that liberals support Reid playing dirty while they would have been screaming from the rooftops if a conservative did the same thing proves liberals are a million times worse hypocrites.
Click to expand...

Don't worry Mitt is ready for the bean bag!


Mitt Romney said:
'
“Anything wrong, I'm opposed to. But, you know, this ain't, this ain't the bean bag.”
Click to expand...
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Okay srsly, while I definitely don't think there's any comparison between what Reid's doing and Obama's BC, or his college grades or whatever, I fear that this is kind of a slippery slope. One of the main reasons why I stick with the Dems is BECAUSE they don't lie (as much). If everybody starts making shit up, then who can you trust?

Who, I ask you, GAF?

WHO?!
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Oblivion said:
Okay srsly, while I definitely don't think there's any comparison between what Reid's doing and Obama's BC, or his college grades or whatever, I fear that this is kind of a slippery slope. One of the main reasons why I stick with the Dems is BECAUSE they don't lie (as much). If everybody starts making shit up, then who can you trust?

Who, I ask you, GAF?

WHO?!
Click to expand...

How do you know Reid's making anything up at all? That's the problem in this instance. I have more reason to believe Reid than Romney, since Romney has already lied about his taxes and also still refuses to release them. Why the hell should I believe him? Reid, on the other hand, probably and possibly did get a call from a credible source.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Oblivion said:
Okay srsly, while I definitely don't think there's any comparison between what Reid's doing and Obama's BC, or his college grades or whatever, I fear that this is kind of a slippery slope. One of the main reasons why I stick with the Dems is BECAUSE they don't lie (as much). If everybody starts making shit up, then who can you trust?

Who, I ask you, GAF?

WHO?!
Click to expand...

But who said Reid is lying?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Oblivion said:
Okay srsly, while I definitely don't think there's any comparison between what Reid's doing and Obama's BC, or his college grades or whatever, I fear that this is kind of a slippery slope. One of the main reasons why I stick with the Dems is BECAUSE they don't lie (as much). If everybody starts making shit up, then who can you trust?

Who, I ask you, GAF?

WHO?!
Click to expand...

Frankly, you shouldn't be believing anything anybody says in any case. Trust but verify. I really wouldn't care if the Republicans made things up if the media would do stories that said "welp that was made up."
 
T

tranciful

Member
I doubt Reid would just make it up. If Reid has worthwhile information from what he believes is a reliable source, I think there's some obligation on his part to make it public. Comparing it to the birthers is ridiculous.

I'm also happy Democrats are starting to grow some balls.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
tranciful said:
I doubt Reid would just make it up. If Reid has worthwhile information from what he believes is a reliable source, I think there's some obligation on his part to make it public. Comparing it to the birthers is ridiculous.

I'm also happy Democrats are starting to grow some balls.
Click to expand...

carry a big stick
 
A

Arde5643

Member
Oblivion said:
Okay srsly, while I definitely don't think there's any comparison between what Reid's doing and Obama's BC, or his college grades or whatever, I fear that this is kind of a slippery slope. One of the main reasons why I stick with the Dems is BECAUSE they don't lie (as much). If everybody starts making shit up, then who can you trust?

Who, I ask you, GAF?

WHO?!
Click to expand...

"Who watches the watchDem?"
 
A

Averon

Member
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/2012/08/government-employment-at-lowest-level.html

Government Employment At Lowest Level Since 1968

governmentemploymentlowestsince1968.png


More than 680,000 Federal, State and Local government jobs have been eliminated since 2009, the biggest 3 year decline on record. If these jobs still existed it would lower the unemployment rate by 1%.
But take a closer look at the two steepest increases in government employment since 1968. Those "fat times" occurred during the early 1970's (Nixon) and the 1980's (Reagan and Bush I). Isn't it precious that Republicans paint Democrats as the party of big government and big spending?
Click to expand...
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PantherLotus said:
Stop playing with Oblivion guys, he's doing his best PD (and PD's not that good so...).
Click to expand...

That last comment, I was actually serious, tho.


As for Reid supposedly NOT lying? Well, obviously I hope that's true. But if it turns out if that's not the case, well that would fuck up Reid's credibility, and the right wingers will point to him for every instance of malfeasance on their side til the end of time.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Just now on the NBC Nightly News, Chuck Todd said that the short list for Romney is now Pawlenty, Portman, and Paul Ryan and that Ryan is "higher on that list than Washington insiders may think."

Chuck Todd channeling his 2008 self and getting me all hot and bothered. Ryan would be a disaster for trying to attract independents.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
speculawyer said:
The whitehouse has distanced themselves from the claim. So Romney can cause Reid to lose credibility . . . but who cares about Reid?
Click to expand...

Stinkles said:
It's common practice to distance yourself from the attack dog. No real meaning in that, it's just buffer for tonal politics.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Though I think it's worth noting that Obama floated the line shortly before Reid did. I can't find the link, but the TPM editor's blog noted it, a day or so before Reid cranked up the attack.

Stinkles said:
Notice that Romney isn't actually denying what Reid said except in weird broad strokes "I paid a lot of taxes" - yes you did, but when, and in what ratio to your income, and in what years?
Click to expand...

Yup. And it's telling that when corned in an interview into promising to at least say what his federal income tax rate was for earlier years, his campaign later turned around and refused.
 
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