Support NeoGAF

[GhaleonEB]

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry

Harry Reid has a Republican source who has told him that Mitt Romney didn't pay taxes in 10 years. Who could he possibly known that would have that information? Former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman's dad sounds like the likely source.

Jon Huntsman Sr, is business partners with Robert C. Gay, who also happened to be Bain's managing director between 1989 and 2004. And if anyone knows the machinations Bain used to evade taxes for itself and its partners, well, it would be the guy in charge of the firm's finances.

Huntsman is also a Republican and a Mormon (like Harry Reid). As governor of next-door Utah, his son (who also served in the Obama administration as ambassador to China) likely developed a close working relationship on regional issues.

Want more? The Huntsman family gave some serious scratch to Reid's reelection campaign.

*snip*

I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

 

[The Librarian]

Edit:

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry

I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

Every time Reid's accusation about Romney comes up, I keep thinking about something similar that happened in The West Wing. There, a Republican congressman came out with a blatantly false accusation that one-third of the White House staff was on drugs when in reality he had real dirt on Leo – a recovering alcoholic, but nobody was supposed to know there were pills involved too – the chief of staff.

 

[Clevinger]

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry



I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

So say this is true. Would it be a crime to divulge that info to anyone?

 

[Black Republican]

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry



I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

shiiiiiiiiiit, if its true

 

[cartoon_soldier]

So say this is true. Would it be a crime to divulge that info to anyone?

I doubt the source coming out is a crime.

Assuming leaking someone's tax returns is a crime.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Romney apparently loves to stand on things. Some of these pictures are kind of funny.

He obviously likes being the center of attention, which I guess most politicians do, but for Romney, it seems to be what drives him.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry



I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

Put me on the list of out of all the people I thought it would be, this was the LAST person I had in mind

 

[Clevinger]

Romney's new surrogate: "I don't particularly dislike Romney as a person."

 

[The Technomancer]

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry



I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

It...would seem to make sense...

 

[cartoon_soldier]

The missing part is the person being a Bain investor, we don't have any proof of that...yet.

 

[el retorno]

I doubt the source coming out is a crime.

Assuming leaking someone's tax returns is a crime.

Nobody's has leaked a tax return.

Also this is now on the Kos story

Remember it was a Huntsman daughter who penned
an article at HuffPo with Ryan Grim that had sources saying Romney would have never ran if he knew he had to open up his tax filings.

Does the Huntsman family talk Romney's taxes around the dinner table?

by Jacoby Jonze

This might be legit.

 

[The Librarian]

From that same source Ghaleon posted, updated:

Remember it was a Huntsman daughter who penned an article at HuffPo with Ryan Grim that had sources saying Romney would have never ran if he knew he had to open up his tax filings. Does the Huntsman family talk Romney's taxes around the dinner table?

Edit: Beaten, but goddammit, I formatted properly!

 

[TacticalFox88]

Romney's new surrogate: "I don't particularly dislike Romney as a person."

Which is code for "Romney can basically go fuck himself."

 

[GhaleonEB]

Romney's new surrogate: "I don't particularly dislike Romney as a person."

Newt's emphasis on "dislike" made the line so much better than it reads. Talk about damning with faint praise. :lol

 

[Clevinger]

Nobody's has leaked a tax return.

So leaking a tax return is illegal, but leaking info from it isn't? I have no idea on either.

 

[Incognito]

The missing part is the person being a Bain investor, we don't have any proof of that...yet.

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2012/08/did-jon-huntsman-tell-harry-reid-about.html

As we try to come up with a name, the following factors strike me as relevant:

1. I think that our source is a Mormon. Why? Because the guy knows about Romney's taxes. It seems likely that Romney might trust only a co-religionist with that kind of information. As we shall see, it is also possible that Reid's source got his info from yet another Mormon -- someone in a position to know all sorts of deep-dish stuff about the Mittster.

2. Reid is a Mormon as well. If the source is a Mormon, he is likely to "go blabby" only when speaking to a fellow Latter-Day Saint. The Mormon community can be insular. In all likelihood, the source would have a history of being on friendly terms with Harry Reid.

3. Why would the source speak to Reid at all? He must have a motive -- an angle. I suspect that we're dealing with someone who was once close to Romney, or at least close to an "insider" at Bain. Later, the source had a falling out with Romney.

As I mull over those three factors, one name comes to my mind:

Jon Huntsman. A Mormon. He fits all of our criteria. He's more liberal than Romney. He's willing to work with the other side of the aisle. His name is very familiar -- a factor which, arguably, ties in with the Bash report on CNN.

And one can definitely call him a Bain investor.

The chemical company founded by Huntsman's father (and formerly run by junior) made a $600 million deal with Bain Capital. That deal took place in 2001, the beginning of the "ten year" time period.

Huntsman's father was also a business partner of Robert C. Gay, the Bain managing director whom we have discussed in a previous post. (It may be relevant to note that Gay hails from a prominent Mormon family.)

At any rate, I strongly suspect that Robert Gay knows a lot -- and by "a lot," I mean A LOT -- about the creative methods that Romney uses to keep hold of his money. Gay is the guy you would go to if you wanted advice on how to do that sort of thing. Remember, his dad once controlled the Howard Hughes fortune. (William Gay put together the "Mormon mafia" that functioned as Hughes' inner circle.)

 

[The Librarian]

Romney's new surrogate: "I don't particularly dislike Romney as a person."

I love Newt. He's so round and fun. Like a bouncy ball.

 

[el retorno]

So leaking a tax return is illegal, but leaking info from it isn't? I have no idea on either.

They're not even doing that. I mean if mitt would have told someone who told someone idk if that is illegal or if tax information like that is protected.

Also if he were to sue for slander he'd have to release the records. They can speak with impunity unless mitt wants his records out there.

 

[RDreamer]

What are the chances of the Huntsmans completely ruining Romney this year, then Jon Huntsman Jr defecting to the democrats and running in 2016, gathering votes of democrats who were happy at him completely ruining Romney and independents who can no longer stand the Republican party?

 

[el retorno]

What are the chances of the Huntsmans completely ruining Romney this year, then Jon Huntsman Jr defecting to the democrats and running in 2016, gathering votes of democrats who were happy at him completely ruining Romney and independents who can no longer stand the Republican party?

0%

 

[RDreamer]

0%

It's kind of a funny scenario to mull over though, mostly because I'm sure Huntsman has to still be pissed at the Republican party.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

What are the chances of the Huntsmans completely ruining Romney this year, then Jon Huntsman Jr defecting to the democrats and running in 2016, gathering votes of democrats who were happy at him completely ruining Romney and independents who can no longer stand the Republican party?

Er, no chance.

 

[RDreamer]

Boo, quit raining on my overly fanciful, borderline conspiracy theory musings!

 

[Jadedx]

Can the Ohio secretary of state be sued because he is giving republican counties more voting opportunities than democratic counties?

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

If Romney actually told someone that did not prepare his returns, then his releasing the information would not break the law. Romney would have gave the information willingly and has no expectation of privacy. That only comes into effect if the individual actually prepared the returns.

Another way to go about it is to speak in generalities. If this Robert Gay helped prepare the returns for all the partners for Bain, then he could discuss ways in which he brought down taxable income in a general sense. That would be like someone advertising their accounting firm. He could mention that it was standard practice to use off shore accounts and other methods to hide income. He could even go into detail about the average payment by Bain executives was around a certain percentage without mention Romney's at all.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I was content to dismiss the first poll - and second - as outliers. But three makes a trend. I'd like to see how these three polls stack up to the same pollster's last one.

I don't know about the other two but FOX had it at 45-41 last month

 

[Chumly]

I wonder if Romney truly believed he wasn't going to have to release his taxes. Talk about delusional........ I bet it pained him to pay that 13% verses whatever the hell he was paying before.

 

[RDreamer]

Can the Ohio secretary of state be sued because he is giving republican counties more voting opportunities than democratic counties?

That whole thing seems completely crazy and I'm kind of worried what effect that'll have on the state, especially since it's so crucial this year.

 

[PhoenixDark]

What are the chances of the Huntsmans completely ruining Romney this year, then Jon Huntsman Jr defecting to the democrats and running in 2016, gathering votes of democrats who were happy at him completely ruining Romney and independents who can no longer stand the Republican party?

nil

I don't see what benefit this has for Huntsman, outside of watching Romney crash and burn. He'll be ostracized from the republican party - hell, he probably already is. Democrats will tolerate him, but ultimately won't want him (just as republicans tolerated Lieberman but didn't want him as McCain's VP).

 

[Guevara]

Huntsman Jr. Too bad he tried to primary this turn. I wonder what polls he looked at in 2011, was it really that likely that Obama would lose?

 

[RDreamer]

Huntsman Jr. Too bad he try to primary this turn. I wonder what polls he looked at in 2011, was it really that likely that Obama would lose?

If Huntsman was the nominee I think Obama would be having a lot more trouble. He was a lot more appealing to the center, I think, and I don't think he would have pandered nearly as much. The base would have still voted for him as anti-obama, and the economy would have led others.

 

[Drek]

What are the chances of the Huntsmans completely ruining Romney this year, then Jon Huntsman Jr defecting to the democrats and running in 2016, gathering votes of democrats who were happy at him completely ruining Romney and independents who can no longer stand the Republican party?

I think you'd have more accurate speculation that this is a leak to sink Romney's 2012 bid, keeping 2016 open for Huntsman to run again now that he's gotten his name out there.

If Obama wins a second term there isn't going to be a Obamacare wedge issue to run on in 2014, so we'll have nearly four uninterrupted years of marginalizing the GOP fringe. You'll also likely have a very strong democratic candidate running. The GOP establishment is going to concede the need for a more centrist candidate and they're really lacking on those types at this point.

Christie only works if the economy is still in the tank come 2016, otherwise he's that rude, angry, fat man from Jersey.

Cantor and Ryan have zero hope.

Jeb Bush will be dismissed based on his last name. The GOP will get scared of the "legacy" branding and his brother's track record did nothing for him.

Rubio is a maybe, but he's not as tied into the big money establishment as Huntsman, so he could have a hard time competing in the cash wars of a rolling primary.

Huntsman is the kind of guy that given the right amount of coverage could lock up the more moderate early primaries (Iowa and NH) and get all the momentum on his side.

 

[jiggle]

i don't remember this being so entertaining 4 years ago at this point of the election

 

[The Technomancer]

i don't remember this being so entertaining 4 years ago at this point of the election

McCain's campaign wasn't this much of a train wreck. He hadn't even announced Palin by this point, right?

 

[Drek]

nil

I don't see what benefit this has for Huntsman, outside of watching Romney crash and burn. He'll be ostracized from the republican party - hell, he probably already is. Democrats will tolerate him, but ultimately won't want him (just as republicans tolerated Lieberman but didn't want him as McCain's VP).

1. There will never be a hard confirm.

2. No one cares about how much you fuck over Romney once he's out of the spotlight. No one in the GOP actually likes him, and as of now this isn't something you can say has cost him the election. If he can't rebut and bounce back he was a DOA candidate in the first place.

3. All the GOP will care about in 2016 is someone who can actually win. If they lose this year that will send a strong message that middle America does not want large portions of the current Tea Party directed platform.

 

[RDreamer]

I think you'd have more accurate speculation that this is a leak to sink Romney's 2012 bid, keeping 2016 open for Huntsman to run again now that he's gotten his name out there.

If Obama wins a second term there isn't going to be a Obamacare wedge issue to run on in 2014, so we'll have nearly four uninterrupted years of marginalizing the GOP fringe. You'll also likely have a very strong democratic candidate running. The GOP establishment is going to concede the need for a more centrist candidate and they're really lacking on those types at this point.

Christie only works if the economy is still in the tank come 2016, otherwise he's that rude, angry, fat man from Jersey.

Cantor and Ryan have zero hope.

Jeb Bush will be dismissed based on his last name. The GOP will get scared of the "legacy" branding and his brother's track record did nothing for him.

Rubio is a maybe, but he's not as tied into the big money establishment as Huntsman, so he could have a hard time competing in the cash wars of a rolling primary.

Huntsman is the kind of guy that given the right amount of coverage could lock up the more moderate early primaries (Iowa and NH) and get all the momentum on his side.

That's kind of what I was thinking about Huntsman at first, but if this leak is him in any way I'd just wonder how much ill will that would garner by establishment Republicans, and whether he could realistically run for an office as big as the President again against all of them. The ill will of him being in Obama's administration, and for what he said about Republicans needing good ideas would probably be gone by then, but I just don't know about sinking the Romney ship. If the leak is just on his dad, though, then Huntsman Jr would be pretty good to go.

 

[Plinko]

Kos thinks he's figured it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry



I sure hope Reid's source wants to come out, because it's going to be a witch hunt until he/she/it does.

This is amazing. Never thought of him.

 

[Drek]

That's kind of what I was thinking about Huntsman at first, but if this leak is him in any way I'd just wonder how much ill will that would garner by establishment Republicans, and whether he could realistically run for an office as big as the President again against all of them. The ill will of him being in Obama's administration, and for what he said about Republicans needing good ideas would probably be gone by then, but I just don't know about sinking the Romney ship.

Again, it will never be confirmed beyond it's current speculative level and come late 2014 all the GOP is going to care about is who can get them back into office. If Obama has the nation in a pretty decent position by the back end of his second term you can't run against the next dem candidate to follow him as a hard right guy.

 

[RDreamer]

Again, it will never be confirmed beyond it's current speculative level and come late 2014 all the GOP is going to care about is who can get them back into office. If Obama has the nation in a pretty decent position by the back end of his second term you can't run against the next dem candidate to follow him as a hard right guy.

For some reason I'm kind of seeing an end to this where whoever this is gets revealed. Reid's getting a little bit specific about it, so I'm sure someone will find out at some point.

But yeah I agree Hunstman could be in a decent spot for 2016. If Romney won, though? He's not in a good spot.

 

[Drakeon]

1. There will never be a hard confirm.

2. No one cares about how much you fuck over Romney once he's out of the spotlight. No one in the GOP actually likes him, and as of now this isn't something you can say has cost him the election. If he can't rebut and bounce back he was a DOA candidate in the first place.

3. All the GOP will care about in 2016 is someone who can actually win. If they lose this year that will send a strong message that middle America does not want large portions of the current Tea Party directed platform.

If only. All it'll mean if they lose this year, is that they "didn't pick someone conservative enough" and lost because Mitt was "too moderate".

 

[RDreamer]

If only. All it'll mean if they lose this year, is that they "didn't pick someone conservative enough" and lost because Mitt was "too moderate".

A large portion of the base thought that last time, and this time we ended up with Mitt. Realistically, electability is still a large priority with them no matter how much they scream about real conservatism.

 

[pigeon]

I think you'd have more accurate speculation that this is a leak to sink Romney's 2012 bid, keeping 2016 open for Huntsman to run again now that he's gotten his name out there.

If Obama wins a second term there isn't going to be a Obamacare wedge issue to run on in 2014, so we'll have nearly four uninterrupted years of marginalizing the GOP fringe. You'll also likely have a very strong democratic candidate running. The GOP establishment is going to concede the need for a more centrist candidate and they're really lacking on those types at this point.

Christie only works if the economy is still in the tank come 2016, otherwise he's that rude, angry, fat man from Jersey.

Cantor and Ryan have zero hope.

Jeb Bush will be dismissed based on his last name. The GOP will get scared of the "legacy" branding and his brother's track record did nothing for him.

Rubio is a maybe, but he's not as tied into the big money establishment as Huntsman, so he could have a hard time competing in the cash wars of a rolling primary.

Huntsman is the kind of guy that given the right amount of coverage could lock up the more moderate early primaries (Iowa and NH) and get all the momentum on his side.

Wait a second. Wasn't somebody in poliGAF positing that Mitt was a Mormon stalking horse for Huntsman a month or two ago?

THE RUMORS ARE TRUE

 

[Clevinger]

@fivethirtyeight
Our forecast model definitely thinks Obama has had a solid few weeks, but I don't think today's national polls are that big a deal.

@fivethirtyeight
More the slow drip-drip-drip of news and polls that have been good for Obama. Doubt that the race is at any sort of inflection point.

 

[markatisu]

People should not be surprised if its Huntsman, he did essentially condemn and then walk away from the GOP in June. Did nobody remember that?

 

[Drakeon]

A large portion of the base thought that last time, and this time we ended up with Mitt. Realistically, electability is still a large priority with them no matter how much they scream about real conservatism.

You say that, but there were no challengers to Mitt. He had trouble running against Rick Santorum for fucks sake. No, the Tea Party still plays far too prominent a role in the primaries for them to pick a more moderate candidate. They aren't done voting out all the perceived moderates yet (see: Dick Luger).

 

[speculawyer]

nil

I don't see what benefit this has for Huntsman, outside of watching Romney crash and burn. He'll be ostracized from the republican party - hell, he probably already is. Democrats will tolerate him, but ultimately won't want him (just as republicans tolerated Lieberman but didn't want him as McCain's VP).

Sadly, for many people that is enough.

 

[speculawyer]

A large portion of the base thought that last time, and this time we ended up with Mitt. Realistically, electability is still a large priority with them no matter how much they scream about real conservatism.

Well they want a hardcore conservative that isn't crazy and thus is electable. But the problem is that is self-contradiction. But I don't think they realize that . . . many of them do and that is how Mitt won. But he may have won by splitting up the hardcore conservative vote. If the hardcore conservatives coalesced around one candidate instead of splitting among Perry, Newt, Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, etc. then that one hardcore conservative could win the nomination. And lose the general election but in a different way than McCain and Mitt lose.

 

[RDreamer]

You say that, but there were no challengers to Mitt. He had trouble running against Rick Santorum for fucks sake. No, the Tea Party still plays far too prominent a role in the primaries for them to pick a more moderate candidate. They aren't done voting out all the perceived moderates yet (see: Dick Luger).

But Santorum was the tea party guy, and Mitt is the moderate. By your logic they would have voted out Mitt, but they didn't, because he's electable.

I do think the metrics change a bit when there isn't an incumbent, though. This year they were torn a bit on electability because this was a not-Obama election rather than a vote republican type election. But on the other hand, in 2016 there will be less rhetoric and bile spewing to be had on the base. They won't be running against an incumbent they hate, so that could still lead the way for a moderate with good electability. Unless Hillary is running... then I think they could up their bile against her lol.

Well they want a hardcore conservative that isn't crazy and thus is electable. But the problem is that is self-contradiction. But I don't think they realize that . . . many of them do and that is how Mitt won. But he may have won by splitting up the hardcore conservative vote. If the hardcore conservatives coalesced around one candidate instead of splitting among Perry, Newt, Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, etc. then that one hardcore conservative could win the nomination. And lose the general election but in a different way than McCain and Mitt lose.

Yeah, that's true. So really it's hard to speculate on 2016 without knowing the entire field. A Hunstman type guy could cut through the field if there are a lot of split hardcore votes. But I think some of those metrics came about because the base hated Romney so much, but couldn't settle on a single "other" guy. It's harder to settle on an "other" guy than a guy who's clearly electable and already leading (and expected).

 

[Averon]

Has the GOP SuperPACs made their media swarm yet? I'm asking because these recent poll numbers suggest they have not. Or maybe their ads are simply ineffective and Obama's ads and line of attack against Romney are more effective.

What are the GOP's SuperPACs wasting their money on?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Huntsman could run as a Democrat for U.S. Senate one day. I don't think he'll go for a presidential run anytime soon unless the GOP moderates severely.