Salvor.Hardin
Banned
How odd that Paul Ryan's pick is being met by victory on both sides of the election. I think Democrats (not the campaign) are over underestimating him.
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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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cartoon_soldier
Member
Fixed.
Edit:
One thing I am hoping that happens. Now, no longer Dem donors can feel that Romney won't do the house GOP bidding. And hopefully that scares them. And hopefully, Priorities USA raises more money, House Majority PAC raises more money. Even if we ignore the effect of SuperPACs on the Presidential elections, they are proving to be deadly at the Senate and House level.
I dunno. My barometer here is moderate conservatives like Yglesias and Frum, and they're the ones who are upset about this pick because they think it'll kill Romney's campaign.
PhoenixDark
Banned
So he'll be off by only 11 EVs
ClassyPenguin
Banned
I think a large amount of people are going to be swayed by his apparent "knowledge" about the budget and fiscal policies. I see a lot of anger against Obama because of the misunderstanding of his economic positions. So, Ryan presents someone they can point to and say, "See! This guy knows the numbers and Obama doesn't".
The Librarian
Banned
Yglesias is a conservative?
TacticalFox88
Banned
http://www.examiner.com/article/rus...ecognize-authentic-blacks-without-slave-roots
I wish he'd stop with this dog whistle bullshit and come out and say what we already know.
I wish he'd stop with this dog whistle bullshit and come out and say what we already know.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I will say this, you know there is somewhat of an issue when one day after announcing your pick, your campaign leaks to the press they didn't want the pick (i.e. Saving their jobs):
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/romney-picked-ryan-over-advisors-early-doubts
Aaron Strife
Banned
There's a disturbingly high amount of people who think Romney will govern as a moderate in the White House. Really he'll just rubber-stamp any concoction of Boehner and McConnell's that comes to his desk.
With regards to the Obama-Romney contest, he probably won't make much of a difference. Attacks against Romney on Ryan's budget will stick better, I'm sure, but I'm pretty sure that was the Obama campaign's endgame all along.Salvor.Hardin said:
What it does do is elevate Ryan to a level where he's in the national conscious, and that could have a downballot effect. And there are a lot of vulnerable incumbent Republicans in swing districts who voted for the Ryan budget, by which I mean all of them.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Looking at this from a map perspective and let us say Ryan turns FL blue and WI red. We give Romney NC and NH (because why not and I read an article on the Hill that Ryan may help with NH):
yea, Romney can't afford to lose FL. Very interesting to see how the Polls in FL are in September after the conventions.
I am assuming, Romney believes he can do 2004 results with Florida blue and WI red. That gives him the EC win.
yea, Romney can't afford to lose FL. Very interesting to see how the Polls in FL are in September after the conventions.
I am assuming, Romney believes he can do 2004 results with Florida blue and WI red. That gives him the EC win.
Huh. I guess I just thought of him as a moderate conservative because he spends all his time talking about deregulation. Okay, just Frum.
What concerns me greatly is the crap republicans are pulling in states like Iowa and Ohio. Restricting voting times in democratic areas but not republican areas. Getting ride of early voting the weekend before the election in Florida, stopping organizations from registering people to vote there as well. Republicans are clearly trying to steal the election in certain states because they know given a good turn out they'll go blue because of their policies. All of this on top of the stupid voter id laws they have passed. It's completely asinine that election day isn't a federal holiday so everyone has off of work to vote.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I find it incredibly unlikely Ryan will give Romney Wisconsin, but then again I thought Walker had a shot at being recalled, so I'll wait for the poll data I guess
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
To another topic:
I have a buddy who worked for the local housing authority and told me some stuff that shocked and dismayed my faith in people.
-He said it was routine for people under his management to obtain jobs right around when it was time to verify employment (part of the requirement for receiving SEVERELY discounted housing), then, soon after they would get forcefully fired from their job so that they could go back on unemployment and maintain their household. Apparently they would get up to 1 year after being fired to find a new place to live or get employment again. These projects-style apartments were large (obviously not in the best part of town), and only $50 a month in many cases.
I feel for those who truly need help and work hard to help themselves while they receive help from the govt., but I have no sympathy for this kind of behavior. You guys know I am a big proponent of taking care of the poor and sick. What would you guys do, if anything, to help crackdown on this sort of waste and fraud?
My friend, btw, is a latino democrat who would probably never vote republican and we weren't talking even in a political sense, but instead of a "work horror stories" sense.
How do you balance encouraging people to find work and bridging their income gaps until they find it and cracking down on welfare fraud. I don't think welfare fraud is as prevalent as many republicans think it is, nor are they the sole or even close to principal reason for massive budget deficits, but I see various levels of disingenuous behaviors by people on various types of govt. welfare all the time and wonder if anything could truly be done to weed fakers out of the system without further disenfranchising those who truly need and warrant the help...
I have a buddy who worked for the local housing authority and told me some stuff that shocked and dismayed my faith in people.
-He said it was routine for people under his management to obtain jobs right around when it was time to verify employment (part of the requirement for receiving SEVERELY discounted housing), then, soon after they would get forcefully fired from their job so that they could go back on unemployment and maintain their household. Apparently they would get up to 1 year after being fired to find a new place to live or get employment again. These projects-style apartments were large (obviously not in the best part of town), and only $50 a month in many cases.
I feel for those who truly need help and work hard to help themselves while they receive help from the govt., but I have no sympathy for this kind of behavior. You guys know I am a big proponent of taking care of the poor and sick. What would you guys do, if anything, to help crackdown on this sort of waste and fraud?
My friend, btw, is a latino democrat who would probably never vote republican and we weren't talking even in a political sense, but instead of a "work horror stories" sense.
How do you balance encouraging people to find work and bridging their income gaps until they find it and cracking down on welfare fraud. I don't think welfare fraud is as prevalent as many republicans think it is, nor are they the sole or even close to principal reason for massive budget deficits, but I see various levels of disingenuous behaviors by people on various types of govt. welfare all the time and wonder if anything could truly be done to weed fakers out of the system without further disenfranchising those who truly need and warrant the help...
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Ryan may not have the bombast of other notable Republicans but the thing that kind of scares me about him is how he can sell his budget fuckery with calmness and composure. He either actually believes the shit he says or he's operating on some Lex Luthor levels of dastardliness.
We should fight fraud, no doubt about it.
But considering there's an estimated $385 billion dollars of lost revenue in tax evasion, are you sure you're focusing on the right place?
Why is this an either or?
cartoon_soldier
Member
State?
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Trust me, I have been the loudest poster in terms of raising taxes. I would love to sew up those loopholes and raise taxes pretty much across the board.
Nebraska.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
My parents are covered under Section 8 housing and from the lack of funds and budget cuts many families of 5+ members are being moved into two-bedroom houses, which presents quite a privacy issue esp. with teenage children. And this is in LA where a two bedroom apartment or house can be quite expensive.
This is not about tax rate, this is about fraud.Trust me, I have been the loudest poster in terms of raising taxes. I would love to sew up those loopholes and raise taxes pretty much across the board.
That number does not include tax avoidance, like Romney and GE are doing.
I just feel that we accept a certain level of fraud in the tax system, but a much smaller level of fraud (both in absolute and proportional terms) in our pretty shitty welfare system seem to generate unending outrage.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Then I agree even more so. People should pay what they are supposed to. All these tax relief commercials drive me up a wall. Just pay your damn taxes.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Most states have some kind of employment requirements to collect unemployment including having to earn a minimum amount of wages in your last job before you were fired.
NO NO NO NO.
That's not how politics work.
You must take diametrically opposing view.
Do you want David Greogry to go back to doing tricks for crack?
But on a more serious note, another important thing to remember about fraud, is that it's virtually impossible to eliminate it (at least without resorting to very oppressive enforcement techniques).
Which is why the first question that I always ask about when I hear such stories is what is the fraud rate.
If it's 60% (to randomly pick a super high number out of my ass), then yes, the system need some major overhaul.
But if it's small, and if it will cost more to fix or if we can't fix it without denying deserving people, then I think this is something we have to live with.
p.s.
It should be noted that I know shit and all about Nebraska's housing authority.
not really a leak
i can't tell if she's saying "he deserves all the credits" or "it's not our fault"
Excites the conservative base?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Well, you can't collect unemployment if your employer has cause to fire you, so already the story sounds weird.
If it's basically true and something's getting lost in the details, though.. well that's shitty of course. And if there's some way to reduce small-time fraud like this without affecting genuinely deserving recipients whatsoever then I'm all for it. But that may be next to impossible and I honestly can't bring myself to give a huge shit without evidence that welfare abuse is truly endemic and a significant drain on resources. Which to the best of my knowledge does not exist besides anecdotes like these.
Like the tea party endorses him?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Yes, they wuv him.
I just saw that. Dude's a fucking clown.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Not really. She wasn't popular prior to the pick. She was a wildcard pick - appealing (in theory) to families and women. Her gender also was designed to somewhat counteract Obama's race.
I know exactly where your talking about being in Nebraska and my wife taught many kids who lived in that housing. A couple things to keep in mind though. The "work horror stories" always stick out in your mind. So you might be able to recall 10 work horror stories but if 100 other people were just fine its not as prevalent as it might seem. Even when they are cheating the system they live in shit conditions.
I think almost all of them have kids so its kind of hard to kick them and their kids out when its not the kids fault that their parents maybe "lazy". My wife would have kids come to school hungry because they ran out of food at the end of the month and were waiting for their next food stamp payment.
I think a big problem is the lack of quality jobs out there. People don't want to go out and work a shit 7.25 an hour job when they have three kids. If quality jobs were available they we wouldn't have near as many problem with people not wanting to work. The current race to the bottom of employers being as cheap as possible doesn't help this problem.
Omaha housing authority gives out around 4300 vouchers every year. If 10% of those were abusing the system (cheating 5-10 grand they get in housing payments from the government - thats extremely generous) thats equivalent to one rich person avoiding 2-4 million in taxes. That ONE rich person would be the equivalent to 430 housing authority abusers. It requires significantly more resources to go after a person abusing a small amount of money verses a significant amount of money. Which is why I think we have our priorities extremely messed up if we are going after the poor people when many of them are legit.
Haha, WHAT? Is this true?
So, no actual positives.
SouthernDragon
Member
Not to mention that it's kinda hard to justify leaving subsidized and poor housing for a job that won't even pay for poor, regular housing.
This is certainly a huge problem because people can be "punished" for taking a low paying job. You could lose out on your unemployment, food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing. So people won't take those low paying jobs sometimes to try and hold out for the higher paying job. We need to have a better balance were you basically can be rewarded by taking a job and keeping your benefits/portion of benefits instead of being punished by being "just outside" the range.
Black Republican
Member
TacticalFox88
Banned
I believe this now counts under Insane Troll Logic.
Officerrob
Banned
Outsourcing jobs counts as foreign policy experience?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Obama better whip that out during a debate
moderator: what are your foreign policy credentials?
Romney: [rambling answer]
Obama: Governor Romney's only foreign policy experience is shipping jobs overseas
Trust me, I have been the loudest poster in terms of raising taxes. I would love to sew up those loopholes and raise taxes pretty much across the board.
Nebraska.
Your OHA buddy is full of shit. Literally, feces are spewing out of his mouth.
What about fours years of experience being the POTUS?
Seriously, I live(d) in Nebraska. There is no fucking way you can keep your OHA housing doing that. It just doesn't work. I have close family members on assistance right now, and was on welfare when I was younger. He's just a fucking angry OHA employee that should go find other work where he doesn't treat his clients like criminals.
If your rent is around 50$ then you're on some form of disability and are living in one of the OHA towers (K&J, Jackson, Highland, etc). My uncle lives in one. It's a place where nobody has carpet and has a half inch gap between their front door and the main hallway so that the staff can hear you yelling for help if you can't reach the button, and no carpet so it's easier to wash down your apartment after you die. He had a fucking disabling heart attack and a horribly bad-off leg and he STILL had to practically camp the office just to even get his apartment in it initially, and that was with a social worker helping him with medical documentation. Until he got in he had to live with a neighbor a block away from the tower for a month or so.
If your rent is around 50$ then you're on some form of disability and are living in one of the OHA towers (K&J, Jackson, Highland, etc). My uncle lives in one. It's a place where nobody has carpet and has a half inch gap between their front door and the main hallway so that the staff can hear you yelling for help if you can't reach the button, and no carpet so it's easier to wash down your apartment after you die. He had a fucking disabling heart attack and a horribly bad-off leg and he STILL had to practically camp the office just to even get his apartment in it initially, and that was with a social worker helping him with medical documentation. Until he got in he had to live with a neighbor a block away from the tower for a month or so.
Not off to a good start in Florida, guyz:
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/234737764137058304
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/234737764137058304
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