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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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L

leroidys

Member
I think Ryan was a good pick in that its going to completely change the coverage Romney gets. The Bain attacks and the tax release problem was devestating his campaign, but now they get to talk about class warfare on their terms again. They are very well rehearsed on this, and a large portion of the electorate is receptive to their garbage message on the topic.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Mitt Romney And Paul Ryan: We’re Out To Save Medicare
“What Paul Ryan and I have talked about is saving Medicare, is providing people greater choice in Medicare, making sure it’s there for current seniors — no changes, by the way, for current seniors or those nearing retirement — but looking for young people down the road and saying, ‘We’re going to give you a bigger choice,’” Romney told CBS’ Bob Schieffer on “60 Minutes.”

“Our point is, we need to preserve their benefits,” Ryan added. “… In order to make sure we can do that, you must reform it for those of us who are younger.
Click to expand...
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/romney-ryan-medicare-60-minutes.php?ref=fpa
 
D

Drek

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Pretty obvious the post is made discussing the scenario that Obama wins.

Regardless what happens this year I'd imagine the 2016 dem bench would include Cuomo, Mark Warner, Brian Schweitzer, and Martin O'Malley; if Clinton changes her mind and runs, she'll almost certainly get the nomination.
Click to expand...

I don't see how she doesn't, honestly. It'll basically be her election to win, and obviously there was some ambition to become POTUS not so long ago.

Saying she's got no interest now is a key part of separating herself from the current political cycle. An Obama win or loss doesn't hurt her because she's just the Sec. of State and is too busy with her own work to get involved.

She'll use the fatigue as an excuse to step down as Sec. of State after this first term, at which point she'll take a little time off to recharge and then in late 2014 she'll get the Hillary train rolling again.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
watershed said:
Both sides are rushing to stake their claim as Medicare saviors. It will be interesting to see who wins as on the surface both sides are making the exact same argument. I'm afraid Ryan's dopey eyes might give the Republicans the advantage.
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They also have a very popular 'news' network as a propaganda machine, and the advantage of a very incompetent media.

I'm actually nervous about this. If they do end up winning, it's going to be awful. I hope this energizes the Democrats.
 
A

Averon

Member
Every indication is that Dems are going full bore on defining the Ryan plan as a death sentence to Medicare. If Dems lose the Medicare debate, it won't be for lack of trying.
 
W

watershed

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
They also have a very popular 'news' network as a propaganda machine, and the advantage of a very incompetent media.

I'm actually nervous about this. If they do end up winning, it's going to be awful. I hope this energizes the Democrats.
Click to expand...

Thankfully the Obama camp is moving fast with ads and the other parts of the Ryan budget will be harder to spin like cuts to Pell Grants, tax breaks for millionaires, and tax increases for the middle class. Fox News I've grown to live with but the rest of the media not doing its job is annoying as hell.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
North Carolina won't go blue easily. Charlotte isn't in too great of shape and the Raleigh-Durham area needs to grow more too.

mj1108 said:
I'm sure there's more to it... like "eliminate tax loopholes like charitable deductions....for people making under $100,000 a year".
Click to expand...
Sounds about right. Earned Income Tax Credit? Loophole.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
I think most older people have built up an immunity to medicare fearmongering. It was all the rage in the 80's and early 90's.

It makes for a nice bullet point, but they shouldn't base their entire campaign on it.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
RDreamer said:
The more I hear about him the more I think he is literally a crazy person.
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Ryan's wife comes from a big oil family. So he stands to gain quite a bit of money if his budget goes through.


Oh, and I was talking to my mother-in law yesterday. She's 68, and has been a staunch Republican for years. She listens to Glenn Beck every morning, and plans to live in Florida in a few years.

She told me that she isn't voting for Romney/Ryan because they're too conservative. She's going to look into other candidates, and may even vote for Obama.
 
D

DasRaven

Member
“What Paul Ryan and I have talked about is saving Medicare, is providing people greater choice in Medicare, making sure it’s there for current seniors — no changes, by the way, for current seniors or those nearing retirement — but looking for young people down the road and saying, ‘We’re going to give you a bigger choice,’” Romney told CBS’ Bob Schieffer on “60 Minutes.”

“Our point is, we need to preserve their benefits,” Ryan added. “… In order to make sure we can do that, you must reform it for those of us who are younger.
Click to expand...

I haven't gotten around to watching the whole 60 Minutes interview yet, but the visual I got just reading this was of Ryan gesturing to Romney and himself during the bolded part.

Then I immediately thought how bad an image that was. The younger person, from humbler beginnings, sacrificing his benefits so that the older, richer, person can have their cake and eat it too.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
I think I may have to go into blackout mode. An Ayn Rand fanatic winning the messaging on who wants to destroy Medicare is probably too much for my little brain to handle.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Clevinger said:
Yes. He said one of the biggest myths in Washington is that he loves Ayn Rand or something like that.
Click to expand...

Ha! Well then this is awkward:

But Ryan made no bones about his philosophical influences just a few years ago. He told the Weekly Standard in 2003 that he gave his staffers copies of “Atlas Shrugged” as Christmas presents. Speaking to a group of Rand acolytes in 2005, Ryan said, “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.”

Even three years ago, Tim Mak of Politico noted, Ryan channeled Rand. “What’s unique about what’s happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it’s as if we’re living in an Ayn Rand novel right now,” Ryan said. “I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault.”
Click to expand...
 
C

codhand

Member
Clevinger said:
I don't know how you could have gotten that idea.
Click to expand...

I....
Lb91H.gif


Also, making everyone on staff read Atlas Shrugged? Ughh, I thought we banned torture?
 
C

Clevinger

Member
USAT/Gallup poll: Paul Ryan gets low marks for VP

(before you get too excited, the poll was taken by Adults, not Likely Voters or Registered Voters or anything so I'm not sure how seriously I should take it)

Americans don't believe GOP presidential contender Mitt Romney hit a home run with his choice of Paul Ryan as a running mate, a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, with more of the public giving him lower marks than high ones.

Ryan, a Wisconsin congressman, is seen as only a "fair" or "poor" choice by 42% of Americans vs. 39% who think he is an "excellent" or "pretty good" vice presidential choice.

Romney pollster Neil Newhouse said in a statement that the findings reflect the fact that Ryan, a House member since 1999, isn't widely known.

USA TODAY/Gallup Polls of registered voters after the announcements of running mates since Dick Cheney in 2000 all showed more positive reactions. Only Dan Quayle in a 1988 Harris Poll of likely voters was viewed less positively than Ryan, with 52% rating Quayle as a "fair" or "poor" vice presidential choice. The Ryan poll includes all adults, not just registered voters.

Since Romney introduced Ryan as his running mate on Saturday, Democrats have set out to portray the House Budget Committee chairman as an extremist for his plans to revamp Medicare. President Obama called Ryan an "articulate spokesman" for "a vision I fundamentally disagree with."

"All these numbers indicate is the simple fact that Congressman Paul Ryan was not a nationally known figure prior to being named as Gov. Romney's vice-presidential pick," Newhouse said. "Congressman Ryan's selection reinforces the seriousness of the issues that will be debated in this election and President Obama's failure to get Americans back to work and his inability to strengthen the middle class."

The poll also finds 17% of adults say they're more likely to vote for Romney in November because Ryan is his running mate -- about the same impact Palin had for John McCain four years ago among registered voters.

Republicans, however, see the appeal in Ryan, who was hailed this weekend as a bold, innovative thinker by party stalwarts. The poll finds 36% of Republicans are now more likely to vote for Romney. In 2008, only 3 in 10 Republicans said the choice of Palin made them more likely to vote for McCain.

The USA TODAY/Gallup survey also finds 48% of Americans view Ryan as qualified to be president if something should happen to Romney, while 29% do not and 23% were undecided. Only Palin, then the governor of Alaska, and Quayle, a two-term senator from Indiana, were rated lower than Ryan.

The poll of 1,006 adults was taken on Sunday. It has a margin of error of +/- 4 percentage points.
Click to expand...
 
T

Tim-E

Member
I know people are concerned about Ryan taking over with the messaging on Medicare, but unfortunately for him he's not the one running for President and has to work with the Romney campaign, who hasn't been able to control the narrative since the primaries ended. The Obama campaign is obviously ready for this, and they've destroyed Romney in terms of controlling the narrative. Just because Ryan is on board now I don't see the Romney campaign changing how it does business that dramatically.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Clevinger said:
Paul Ryan traded on insider information during the 2008 economic crash

It wasn't illegal back then to do it (I believe it is now, though -- thanks, Obummer), nor was he anywhere close to the only one who did it in Congress, but, uh, it doesn't look too good when you're running for VP.
Click to expand...

I swear to god, it's one thing after another with this campaign. I joked about Obama and Biden putting on fake mustaches to run this thing before, but this is just getting to the point where it has to be what's going on. How can anyone be this dumb?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
I really don't like this guy.

Meet Paul Ryan: Climate Denier, Conspiracy Theorist, Koch Acolyte
By Climate Guest Blogger on Aug 11, 2012 at 8:46 am
By Brad Johnson, campaign manager for Forecast the Facts
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), Mitt Romney’s vice-presidential pick, is a virulent denier of climate science, with a voting record to match.
A favorite of the Koch brothers, Ryan has accused scientists of engaging in conspiracy to “intentionally mislead the public on the issue of climate change.” He has implied that snow invalidates global warming.

Ryan has voted to prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from limiting greenhouse pollution, to eliminate White House climate advisers, to block the U.S. Department of Agriculture from preparing for climate disasters like the drought devastating his home state, and to eliminate the Department of Energy Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA-E):

Paul Ryan Promoted Unfounded Conspiracy Theories About Climate Scientists. In a December 2009 op-ed during international climate talks, Ryan made reference to the hacked University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit emails. He accused climatologists of a “perversion of the scientific method, where data were manipulated to support a predetermined conclusion,” in order to “intentionally mislead the public on the issue of climate change.” Because of spurious claims of conspiracy like these, several governmental and academic inquiries were launched, all of which found the accusations to be without merit. [Paul Ryan, 12/11/09]

Paul Ryan Argued Snow Invalidates Global Warming Policy. In the same anti-science, anti-scientist December 2009 op-ed, Ryan argued, “Unilateral economic restraint in the name of fighting global warming has been a tough sell in our communities, where much of the state is buried under snow.” Ryan’s line is especially disingenuous because he hasn’t been trying to sell climate action, he’s been spreading disinformation. [Paul Ryan, 12/11/09]

Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate EPA Limits On Greenhouse Pollution. Ryan voted in favor of H.R. 910, introduced in 2011 by Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) to block the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas pollution. [Roll Call 249, 4/7/11]

Paul Ryan Voted To Block The USDA From Preparing For Climate Change. In 2011, Ryan voted in favor of the Scalise (R-LA) Amendment to the FY12 Agriculture Appropriations bill, to bar the U.S. Department of Agriculture from implementing its Climate Protection Plan. [Roll Call 448, 6/16/11]

Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate White House Climate Advisers. Ryan voted in favor of Scalise (R-LA) Amendment 204 to the 2011 Continuing Resolution, to eliminate the assistant to the president for energy and climate change, the special envoy for climate change (Todd Stern), and the special adviser for green jobs, enterprise and innovation. [Roll Call 87, 2/17/11]

Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate ARPA-E. Ryan voted in favor of Biggert (R-IL) Amendment 192 to the 2011 Continuing Resolution, to eliminate the Department of Energy’s Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA-E). [Roll Call 55, 2/17/11]

Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate Light Bulb Efficiency Standards. In 2011, Ryan voted to roll back light-bulb efficiency standards that had reinvigorated the domestic lighting industry and that significantly reduce energy waste and carbon pollution. [Roll Call 563, 7/12/11]

Paul Ryan Voted For Keystone XL. In 2011, Ryan voted to expedite the consideration and approval of the construction and operation of the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline. [Roll Call 650, 7/26/11]

Paul Ryan Budget Kept Big Oil Subsidies And Slashed Clean Energy Investment. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) proposed FY 2013 budget resolution retained a decade’s worth of oil tax breaks worth $40 billion, while slashing funding for investments in clean energy research, development, deployment, and commercialization, along with other energy programs. The plan called for a $3 billion cut in energy programs in FY 2013 alone. [CAP, 3/20/12]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/20...mate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte/
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Clevinger said:
Paul Ryan traded on insider information during the 2008 economic crash

It wasn't illegal back then to do it (I believe it is now, though -- thanks, Obummer), nor was he anywhere close to the only one who did it in Congress, but, uh, it doesn't look too good when you're running for VP.
Click to expand...

I know this is as much about optics as anything, but shit tons of reps from both sides of the aisle were doing it, doesn't stop Pelosi from being seen as some amazing house speaker. Yeah, it is different when you are running for president, but when things are legal, as in the case of Romney's taxes (although, with many of the issues, some would argue the legality of certain aspects of his taxation and accounts), I don't see why I myself, or nearly anyone else wouldn't do it.

I guess for these reasons, it is hard for us to objectively say, "well, if I were in office, I wouldn't take money from lobbyists, or kowtow to special interests due to special treatment and campaign donations."
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
AlteredBeast said:
I know this is as much about optics as anything, but shit tons of reps from both sides of the aisle were doing it, doesn't stop Pelosi from being seen as some amazing house speaker. Yeah, it is different when you are running for president, but when things are legal, as in the case of Romney's taxes (although, with many of the issues, some would argue the legality of certain aspects of his taxation and accounts), I don't see why I myself, or nearly anyone else wouldn't do it.

I guess for these reasons, it is hard for us to objectively say, "well, if I were in office, I wouldn't take money from lobbyists, or kowtow to special interests due to special treatment and campaign donations."
Click to expand...

Thing is, it's illegal for us to do it. It may have been legal for them, but it will still look very bad. And your right it is optics, but you can bet your ass if it turns out he voted against reforming it this will be an issue.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
I think Obama will be able to tie all the negatives of Ryan directly to Romney with relative ease, and it will fit in with their already established narrative of Romney's corporate raider, tax shelter-loving, out-of-touch image fairly well. I think people forget how powerful the bully pulpit of the Presidency is. He can basically get a few minutes of every nightly news show every night if he wants by having a press conference, releasing an ad, etc. This campaign is tight and focused on tearing Romney apart, and I only see the selection of Ryan adding to their ammo.
 
E

eznark

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Thing is, it's illegal for us to do it. It may have been legal for them, but it will still look very bad. And your right it is optics, but you can bet your ass if it turns out he voted against reforming it this will be an issue.
Click to expand...

Ryan Statement on STOCK Act


February 9, 2012
After the passage of the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge (STOCK) Act by a vote of 417-2, Wisconsin’s First District Congressman Paul Ryan issued the following statement:

“Insider trading should never occur and should never be tolerated. This is why I was pleased to support the House amendment to the STOCK Act, which represents a bipartisan effort to preserve the public trust by increasing the oversight and transparency associated with financial disclosures.”
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting to hear his reaction to these trades.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
AlteredBeast said:
I know this is as much about optics as anything, but shit tons of reps from both sides of the aisle were doing it, doesn't stop Pelosi from being seen as some amazing house speaker. Yeah, it is different when you are running for president, but when things are legal, as in the case of Romney's taxes (although, with many of the issues, some would argue the legality of certain aspects of his taxation and accounts), I don't see why I myself, or nearly anyone else wouldn't do it.

I guess for these reasons, it is hard for us to objectively say, "well, if I were in office, I wouldn't take money from lobbyists, or kowtow to special interests due to special treatment and campaign donations."
Click to expand...
Politicians gets away with what the electorate allows them to get away with.
That doesn't mean that you you should based your vote come November on this story, that's rather silly.
But I think only good can come out from hammering him on this.

It's unconscionable that this had become a standard mode of operation in DC, legal or not, and if we want to make sure they don't all flock to the next free money corrupt scheme, we need demonstrate that there is a downside to such behavior.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
As if I didn't have enough reason to vote against them..

As the U.S. Presidential Election Begins in Earnest, a Study in Contrasts

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...ction-begins-in-earnest-a-study-in-contrasts/

In matters of transportation, this attitude would steadily decrease the role of the federal government in sponsoring infrastructure projects, especially those that cannot be sponsored entirely through user fees. It would discourage the consideration of negative externalities, such as pollution and congestion, in the considerations of what subsidies should be provided for alternative transportation — because its political ideology opposes government subsidies altogether. It would dismantle enforcement of federal environmental regulations, especially those that recognise climate change, and encourage the privatization of public services such as transit systems or parking meters. These are the very tangible implications of a Romney-Ryan presidency.
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On transportation, Mr. Ryan voted against every piece of transportation legislation proposed by Democrats when they controlled the lower chamber between 2007 and early 2010, with the exception of a bill subsidizing the automobile industry to the tune of $14 billion in loans in December 2008. This record included a vote against moving $8 billion into the highway trust fund in July 2008 (the overall vote was 387 to 37), a bill that was necessary to keep transportation funding at existing levels of investment. Meanwhile, he voted for a failed amendment that would have significantly cut back funding for Amtrak and voted against a widely popular bill that would expand grants for public transportation projects. He did vote in favor of the most recent transportation bill extension.
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I'm also willing to bet that if they were to win, we can say bye-bye to residential tax credits for solar and wind energy purchases. But they'll be all-too-willing to continue subsidizing the "Drill-Drill-Drill/"Drive-Every-Time-to-Go-Absolutely-Anywhere" arrangement that we're currently paying for..
 
E

electricpirate

Member
While the Ryannomny's message on medicare cuts in obamacare will be nuetured by this pick, aren't the dems attacks on the Ryan budget, since it cuts medicare spending levels to the same amount?

Now, i think the ACA cuts are done more intelligently, but IPAB vs. premium support vouchers won't make good zingy one liners.
 
Zero Hero

Zero Hero

Member
electricpirate said:
While the Ryannomny's message on medicare cuts in obamacare will be nuetured by this pick, aren't the dems attacks on the Ryan budget, since it cuts medicare spending levels to the same amount?

Now, i think the ACA cuts are done more intelligently, but IPAB vs. premium support vouchers won't make good zingy one liners.
Click to expand...

The points that seem to fly under the radar are:

-The $700B cuts to medicare are shifted to Obamacare...... which covers the same people.

-Ryan's plan keeps the cuts to medicare, repeals Obamacare, and shifts the money to tax cuts for the wealthy.

This needs to be pointed out and shouted from the rooftops.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Zero Hero said:
The points that seem to fly under the radar are:

-The $700B cuts to medicare are shifted to Obamacare...... which covers the same people.

-Ryan's plan keeps the cuts to medicare, repeals Obamacare, and shifts the money to tax cuts for the wealthy.

This needs to be pointed out and shouted from the rooftops.
Click to expand...

While this does need to be pushed heavily and the Obama campaign needs to go on the offensive, the Rovian tactic the GOP is employing here (attacking your opponent's strengths) is likely not going to be as effective as it has been in the past.

There are certain axioms deeply entrenched in the public perception of both political parties. Broadly, Democrats want to increase government spending, Republicans want to reduce it. However annoying it is that "Democratic Presidents increase the deficit and Republican Presidents reduce it" is almost unanimously untrue, that narrative isn't going away. The upshot of this is that "Democrats want to expand entitlements and Republicans want to cut them" is just as firmly lodged in the minds of the media and the entire country. It's one of the defining characteristics of the parties. Romney/Ryan are swimming way upstream trying to paint Obama as the bigger enemy of Medicare. It would be a tough sell for Romney regardless of the VP, to say nothing of the plan he just hung around his own neck.
 
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