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[GhaleonEB]

More of a "the buck starts with me" kind of guy.

We are only a mere 2.6% away!

We were at 8% before the Recovery Act even kicked in. That graph was the result of poor data at the time, not an ineffective bill. You need to try harder than that.

Low jobs number, but it's actually sequential improvement and better than last year. I'm expecting the late summer and early fall numbers to bounce back decently.

 

[TacticalFox88]

It would be almost hilarious to see Romney get elected and the economy turn to see Democrats call it the Obama recovery. Granholm, after being maybe the worst governor ever, has even tried to claim some credit for Michigan's recovery because she "laid the groundwork."

Considering Romeny would undo all the progress we made in the last 3 years, I don't see how Democrats would even get the opportunity to call it the "Obama Recovery"

 

[empty vessel]

More of a "the buck starts with me" kind of guy.

We are only a mere 2.6% away!

Who knew you were an advocate of more fiscal stimulus? That is what you are calling for, right?

 

[Averon]

Another Reagen era conservative disillusioned about the modern GOP.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-says-gop-has-become-goofy.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

Reagan-Appointed Judge Defends Roberts, Says GOP Has Become ‘Goofy’

Judge Richard Posner was appointed to the bench by former President Ronald Reagan, and has earned a sparkling reputation as a conservative jurist. But Posner, a judge on the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago, says the current incarnation of the Republican Party has driven him away from conservatism.

In a candid interview with NPR Thursday, Posner opened up about what he sees as a “real deterioration in conservative thinking” over the last decade.

“I’ve become less conservative since the Republican Party started becoming goofy,” Posner said.

...

“I mean, what would you do if you were Roberts?” Posner said. “All the sudden you find out that the people you thought were your friends have turned against you, they despise you, they mistreat you, they leak to the press. What do you do? Do you become more conservative? Or do you say, ‘What am I doing with this crowd of lunatics?’ Right? Maybe you have to re-examine your position.”

It would be funny if Roberts becomes another Souter due to the GOP going completely off the rails.

 

[Loudninja]

Obama: Economy ‘Still Tough’ But Job Growth ‘A Step In The Right Direction’

President Obama told an audience at a school in Poland, Ohio, on Friday that American job growth was still moving in a positive direction — even if it doesn’t always feel that way.

“It’s still tough out there,” Obama said, referring to a weaker-than-expected jobs report released earlier Friday. “We learned this morning our businesses created 84,000 new jobs last month and that overall means that businesses created 4.4 million new jobs over the past 28 months — including 500,000 new manufacturing jobs.”

Obama called that growth “a step in the right direction,” but warned that Americans “can’t be satisfied” until the economy is even better than it was in 2007, before a financial crisis and deep recession.

“I want to get back to a time when middle-class families and those working to get to the middle class have basic security,” Obama said. “That’s our goal. We have to grow the economy even faster. We have to put even more people back to work.”

Obama called on voters to re-elect him in order to break a “stalemate” in Washington over the economy and allow him to enact new investments in infrastructure and education.

“We’re trying to put Congress to work,” he joked in an aside to an audience member.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...tep-in-the-right-direction.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

 

[gcubed]

Sure as long as the only definition of "step in the right direction" is "anything but negative"

 

[eznark]

Business is doing just fine

 

[gcubed]

Business is doing just fine

Better then fine, they are exceptional, they just aren't hiring.

 

[el retorno]

Another Reagen era conservative disillusioned about the modern GOP.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-says-gop-has-become-goofy.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

Reagan-Appointed Judge Defends Roberts, Says GOP Has Become ‘Goofy’



It would be funny if Roberts becomes another Souter due to the GOP going completely off the rails.

I was wondering if the Reaction of the GOP and conservative movement will move roberts away from some of the more conservative judges. I really think his a guy who does care about trying to get decisions right though I think he's still generally a conservative reader of the consitution. I can see him swinging on something like gay marriage though.

 

[Loudninja]

Attacking Romney, Obama Campaigns On Health Reform

President Obama went directly at Mitt Romney over health reform at a campaign event in Pennsylvania, saying he had “no apologies” for pushing through the Affordable Care Act and that Romney shouldn’t either.

“The guy I’m running against tried this in Massachusetts and it’s working just fine, even though he denies it,” Obama said.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/attacking-romney-obama-campaigns-on-health-reform

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Our economy is a lost cause. You can dream with these "Should've, would've, could've", but nothing is going to change. Income inequality will continue to rise, and unemployment will be high for years to come. I don't give a shit who's in office; this country is fucked.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Our economy is a lost cause. You can dream with these "Should've, would've, could've", but nothing is going to change. Income inequality will continue to rise, and unemployment will be high for years to come. I don't give a shit who's in office; this country is fucked.

For times like these, I reflect on this:

 

[ToxicAdam]

Not sure where Jon Huntsman goes from here in politics.

Jon Huntsman says he won't attend the Republican national convention "or future gatherings until the party starts to tackle the bigger issues," the Salt Lake Tribune reports.

Said Huntsman: "I will not be attending this year's convention, nor any Republican convention in the future, until the party focuses on a bigger, bolder, more confident future for the United States -- a future based on problem solving, inclusiveness, and a willingness to address the trust deficit, which is every bit as corrosive as our fiscal and economic deficits."

He added: "I encourage a return to the party we have been in the past, from Lincoln right on through to Reagan, that was always willing to put our country before politics."

 

[eznark]

Not sure where Jon Huntsman goes from here in politics.

Never should have left Obama's teet

 

[AlteredBeast]

Attacking Romney, Obama Campaigns On Health Reform

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/attacking-romney-obama-campaigns-on-health-reform

It is only kind of working in MA. Sure, more people than basically anywhere have health insurance coverage, but haven't rates still skyrocketed (faster than other states?) despite the so-called universal coverage?

 

[Blergmeister]

It is only kind of working in MA. Sure, more people than basically anywhere have health insurance coverage, but haven't rates still skyrocketed (faster than other states?) despite the so-called universal coverage?

Health care costs in Massachusetts seems to be growing slower than the rest of the US since Romneycare. It is certainly growing slower than before Romneycare.

http://fredbauerblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/federal-data-health-insurance-premium.html

From 2006 to 2010, employer-sponsored health-care premiums for a family rose about 19% in Massachusetts, while they rose about 22% in the US as a whole. Compare that to the period between 2002 and 2006, when Bay State family premiums increased 40% and US family premiums rose only 34.5%.

 

[RustyNails]

Not sure where Jon Huntsman goes from here in politics.

Switch to Independent/Democrat. I'll vote for him.

 

[The Technomancer]

Compare that to the period between 2002 and 2006, when Bay State family premiums increased 40% and US family premiums rose only 34.5%.

Holy shit. Did I miss people making a big deal about that or did no-one care?

 

[adamsappel]

I guess I haven't posted in this thread yet. I wondered why I wasn't seeing PoliGAF in my subscriptions. Although, when I pressed Post Reply a bunch of Kosmo quotes popped up, so some of his particularly stupid comments must have made an impression on me.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Another Reagen era conservative disillusioned about the modern GOP.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-says-gop-has-become-goofy.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

Reagan-Appointed Judge Defends Roberts, Says GOP Has Become ‘Goofy’



It would be funny if Roberts becomes another Souter due to the GOP going completely off the rails.

Isn't this the same guy who went off on the fucked up patent system the other day too?

Switch to Independent/Democrat. I'll vote for him.

God damnit, no. The Democratic party is conservative enough. We have a conservative party and a far right party in America. I'm tired of seeing the Democratic party turn into the place where conservative castaways end up.

 

[Nesotenso]

On the jobs report, was listening to Marketplace and the economy needs to add 100000- 125000 to keep the rate steady. Hope we do that at the very least leading up to November.

 

[electricpirate]

It is only kind of working in MA. Sure, more people than basically anywhere have health insurance coverage, but haven't rates still skyrocketed (faster than other states?) despite the so-called universal coverage?

Blergmeister hit the basics, here's some other points,

Here's some other good stats, http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/04/pdf/ma_health_myth_fact.pdf/

One of my favorite findings is that nongroup premiums have dropped by 40% in MA, while they've gone up 14% elsewhere. When I posited that Obama's "Premiums down by 2500 number" wasn't far off, this was what i was referencing, the people who are actually cognizant of how much their insurance costs (IE: Not employee sponsored) would see major drops through a combination of a now functioning market and subsidies.

Whether that constitutes a "typical" family is up for debate. I'd say that it's the "Typical" family who knows how much insurance consts, but it's an atypical family, as the bulk of insurance is, and will be employer sponsored.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Blergmeister hit the basics, here's some other points,

Here's some other good stats, http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/04/pdf/ma_health_myth_fact.pdf/

One of my favorite findings is that nongroup premiums have dropped by 40% in MA, while they've gone up 14% elsewhere. When I posited that Obama's "Premiums down by 2500 number" wasn't far off, this was what i was referencing, the people who are actually cognizant of how much their insurance costs (IE: Not employee sponsored) would see major drops through a combination of a now functioning market and subsidies.

Whether that constitutes a "typical" family is up for debate. I'd say that it's the "Typical" family who knows how much insurance consts, but it's an atypical family, as the bulk of insurance is, and will be employer sponsored.

Interesting. Thanks for the data. I was under the impression that it wasn't doing well to lower costs and people in MA weren't too happy about it. Thanks for the info.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Another Reagen era conservative disillusioned about the modern GOP.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-says-gop-has-become-goofy.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

Reagan-Appointed Judge Defends Roberts, Says GOP Has Become ‘Goofy’



It would be funny if Roberts becomes another Souter due to the GOP going completely off the rails.

Posner was the most respected conservative academic.

Now, I think he's viewed as a RINO.

 

[Diablos]

Tightening up in VA:

http://polltracker.talkingpointsmemo.com/contests/va-president-12

 

[Byakuya769]

Switch to Independent/Democrat. I'll vote for him.

You'd vote for a guy who supported the Ryan budget because he changes the letter in parentheses?

 

[PhoenixDark]

I guess we've reached the part of the PoliGAF cycle where everyone pretends democrats never had a super majority. As ToxicAdam and others have pointed out, it was quite clear even in 2009 that the stimulus would not be enough. Yet instead of doing anything to address the economy, democrats focused entirely on health care, then pivoted to Wall Street reform. And of course by the time health care was done, the super majority had ended.

Democrats probably didn't have the support from blue dogs for another big stimulus, but they certainly could have passed a Jobs Act type, small yet focused bill. They could have lowered manufacturing taxes, or passed the veteran tax credit bill, etc. Instead they did nothing and democrats went back to their districts in October 2010 with no accomplishments to brag about - outside of a stimulus that was running out of money/effectiveness and a health care law that hadn't gone into effect.

Maybe, you know, if Reid/Obama didn't let Baucus waste months courting Snowe/Grassley/Colllins the bill could have been passed quicker, allowing democrats more time to pivot to the economy. Instead of, you know, wasting time on a failed energy bill and Wall Street reform that didn't do much of anything.

 

[Buddha Beam]

I guess we've reached the part of the PoliGAF cycle where everyone pretends democrats never had a super majority. As ToxicAdam and others have pointed out, it was quite clear even in 2009 that the stimulus would not be enough. Yet instead of doing anything to address the economy, democrats focused entirely on health care, then pivoted to Wall Street reform. And of course by the time health care was done, the super majority had ended.

Democrats probably didn't have the support from blue dogs for another big stimulus, but they certainly could have passed a Jobs Act type, small yet focused bill. They could have lowered manufacturing taxes, or passed the veteran tax credit bill, etc. Instead they did nothing and democrats went back to their districts in October 2010 with no accomplishments to brag about - outside of a stimulus that was running out of money/effectiveness and a health care law that hadn't gone into effect.

Maybe, you know, if Reid/Obama didn't let Baucus waste months courting Snowe/Grassley/Colllins the bill could have been passed quicker, allowing democrats more time to pivot to the economy. Instead of, you know, wasting time on a failed energy bill and Wall Street reform that didn't do much of anything.

Can't really disagree with any of that, sadly. I do think HCR and Wall Street reform needed to be done, and Obama was smart to do it while the momentum was still on his side, since of all the things he wanted to do, HCR would have by far been the most difficult and he only had a small window.
Unfortunately, his obsession with trying to court Republicans fucked him over.

Wall Street Reform probably should have come before HCR, though... considering that the lack of reform on Wall Street is about the collapse the world economy again.

 

[Kosmo]

Blergmeister hit the basics, here's some other points,

Here's some other good stats, http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/04/pdf/ma_health_myth_fact.pdf/

One of my favorite findings is that nongroup premiums have dropped by 40% in MA, while they've gone up 14% elsewhere. When I posited that Obama's "Premiums down by 2500 number" wasn't far off, this was what i was referencing, the people who are actually cognizant of how much their insurance costs (IE: Not employee sponsored) would see major drops through a combination of a now functioning market and subsidies.

Whether that constitutes a "typical" family is up for debate. I'd say that it's the "Typical" family who knows how much insurance consts, but it's an atypical family, as the bulk of insurance is, and will be employer sponsored.

A less biased source would be preferable, how about Kaiser:

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8311.pdf

The state continues to struggle with rising health care costs. State health reform in 2006
purposefully focused on expanding coverage to residents while leaving the thornier task of cost
containment for future years. As a result, affordability continues to be an issue. Per capita
health spending is 15% higher than the national average and although premium growth has
slowed in recent years, Massachusetts has the highest individual market premiums in the
country. Legislation focused on comprehensive provider payment reform and endorsed by the
Governor is currently pending in the state’s legislature.

Premium growth has only slowed because they are already much higher than the national average to begin with.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I guess we've reached the part of the PoliGAF cycle where everyone pretends democrats never had a super majority. As ToxicAdam and others have pointed out, it was quite clear even in 2009 that the stimulus would not be enough. Yet instead of doing anything to address the economy, democrats focused entirely on health care, then pivoted to Wall Street reform. And of course by the time health care was done, the super majority had ended.

Democrats probably didn't have the support from blue dogs for another big stimulus, but they certainly could have passed a Jobs Act type, small yet focused bill. They could have lowered manufacturing taxes, or passed the veteran tax credit bill, etc. Instead they did nothing and democrats went back to their districts in October 2010 with no accomplishments to brag about - outside of a stimulus that was running out of money/effectiveness and a health care law that hadn't gone into effect.

Maybe, you know, if Reid/Obama didn't let Baucus waste months courting Snowe/Grassley/Colllins the bill could have been passed quicker, allowing democrats more time to pivot to the economy. Instead of, you know, wasting time on a failed energy bill and Wall Street reform that didn't do much of anything.

This is a byproduct of Democrats not being anywhere NEAR the mindhive that is the GOP. This is both good or bad, depending on how you look at it.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Supermajority or not, one party never operates Capitol Hill in a vacuum. I hate this line of thinking where the 2009 Democratic Supermajority = ultimate power to pass anything because it's not only revisionist bullshit but it excuses entirely that whole other half of Congress who said fuck it and sat on their hands the second a scary brown Democrat became President. A handful of blue dogs wouldn't have meant shit had there been even just a handful of Congressional Republicans willing to work in good faith.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Never should have left Obama's teet

Obama's Vice President. Joe Biden suddenly comes down with "health issues" and steps down. After a search, far and wide, Obama picks Huntsman!

Book it!

Spoiler

pipe dreams

 

[Loudninja]

President Obama Gives Mitt Romney A Death Hug On Health Care

“One of the things that you learn as president is that what you say matters, and your principles matter,” Obama said. “And sometimes, you’ve got to fight for things that you believe in and you can’t just switch on a dime.”

“The fact that a whole bunch of Republicans in Washington suddenly said this is a tax — for six years he said it wasn’t, and now he has suddenly reversed himself,” Obama said Thursday. “So the question becomes, are you doing that because of politics? Are you abandoning a principle that you fought for, for six years, simply because you’re getting pressure for two days from Rush Limbaugh or some critics in Washington?”

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...romney-a-death-hug-on-health-care.php?ref=fpa

 

[Aaron Strife]

Tightening up in VA:

http://polltracker.talkingpointsmemo.com/contests/va-president-12

One day poll from We Ask America.

yeah ok

PPP has Obama and Romney tied... in Texas.

Over the period of April 12 - July 1, 662 respondents to the Daily Kos/SEIU/PPP State of the Nation poll were reached at a Texas phone number. Among these respondents, Obama and Romney were tied 47-47.

...

How did this happen? It's not a demographic shift compared to 2008, but rather Romney's lack of popularity among whites. While Republicans have solidified behind him (even those who don't like him) Independents and Moderates have shifted towards Obama.

 

[Mengy]

Not sure where Jon Huntsman goes from here in politics.

I would have voted for him in a second. Man I wish he had gotten the nomination over Romney. I'm still hoping he runs as a third party, although I know it would be pointless...

 

[Brinbe]

One day poll from We Ask America.

yeah ok

PPP has Obama and Romney tied... in Texas.

That is hilarious.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Supermajority or not, one party never operates Capitol Hill in a vacuum. I hate this line of thinking where the 2009 Democratic Supermajority = ultimate power to pass anything because it's not only revisionist bullshit but it excuses entirely that whole other half of Congress who said fuck it and sat on their hands the second a scary brown Democrat became President. A handful of blue dogs wouldn't have meant shit had there been even just a handful of Congressional Republicans willing to work in good faith.

No one is arguing that. The point is that democrats had the super majority and didn't use it to address the economy. There seems to be an assumption on the left that the only way to address the economy is by spending money, therefore "nothing" could be done to address the economy due to blue dogs. The Jobs Act is full of tax credits and cuts that could have been passed at the time. Even the spending within the bill is modest enough not to garner outright rejection from most blue dogs.

Likewise a manufacturing tax cut would have been popular to all democrats and many republicans. There are basic ideas the White House was not interested in until it was too late. People forget, but we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month during the health care debate - no wonder the process soured most people.

I'm glad the health care bill was passed, but it wasted valuable time that could have been used to address the economy. After Franken won, democrats should have gone on a calculated legislative binge to take advantage of their power. And no, I'm not talking about "spending a bunch of money." As I've pointed out, there were a host of quick bills that could have been passed with no resistance.

 

[electricpirate]

A less biased source would be preferable, how about Kaiser:

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8311.pdf



Premium growth has only slowed because they are already much higher than the national average to begin with.

Numbers are sourced, you can go back and see or google youself. Either way that number comes from AHIP via Jon Gruber.

So yes, Massachusets had runaway high premiums (400% of the national average) before HCR, which dropped dramatically, but are still high.

So yay, I'm still right.

 

[Kosmo]

Not sure where Jon Huntsman goes from here in politics.

A lobbying firm.

Numbers are sourced, you can go back and see or google youself. Either way that number comes from AHIP via Jon Gruber.

So yes, Massachusets had runaway high premiums (400% of the national average) before HCR, which dropped dramatically, but are still high.

So yay, I'm still right.

It's like you're arguing to buy oranges at Walmart because their prices have only gone from $2.00 a pound to $2.10 a pound (5% in crease) when Kroger's prices have gone from $1.25 to $1.50 a pound (20% increase).

 

[Chichikov]

Not sure where Jon Huntsman goes from here in politics.

He's probably going to end up a professional "pet conservative" on some media outlet.
Sadly.
Well, sort of sadly.

I think the GOP could use more people like him, but realistically, the guy sold most of his principles during the primary season, just like everyone else.
Now it's true, he didn't sell all of them, and that's nice, but he's been getting a little bit too much credit for being the least of the hypocrites.

 

[electricpirate]

A lobbying firm.





It's like you're arguing to buy oranges at Walmart because their prices have only gone from $2.00 a pound to $2.10 a pound (5% in crease) when Kroger's prices have gone from $1.25 to $1.50 a pound (20% increase).

More like this, I'm arguing that Kroger should be adopting walmarts apple buying reform because they've cut their apple prices by 40%

 

[Kosmo]

More like this, I'm arguing that Kroger should be adopting walmarts apple buying reform because they've cut their apple prices by 40%

Right, and ignoring the fact that they have been overpaying for apples by 50% over the competition all along.

 

[electricpirate]

Right, and ignoring the fact that they have been overpaying for apples by 50% over the competition all along.

So don't copy what they did to drive cost up, and copy what they did to drive price down.

Which is what we are doing, btw...

 

[Blergmeister]

It's like you're arguing to buy oranges at Walmart because their prices have only gone from $2.00 a pound to $2.10 a pound (5% in crease) when Kroger's prices have gone from $1.25 to $1.50 a pound (20% increase).

I'm not sure what your point is here? What are you arguing against?

The question asked was what is happening to Massachusetts health care prices since Romneycare. It looks like prices are slowing in their rise, even growing slower than the rest of the nation. And your position is... it's still expensive? No shit.

I'd propose a Single Payer-Universal Coverage system to be implemented instead. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I feel like that Sales-Age charts with the console sales graph is appropriate here.

 

[tranciful]

No one is arguing that. The point is that democrats had the super majority and didn't use it to address the economy. There seems to be an assumption on the left that the only way to address the economy is by spending money, therefore "nothing" could be done to address the economy due to blue dogs. The Jobs Act is full of tax credits and cuts that could have been passed at the time. Even the spending within the bill is modest enough not to garner outright rejection from most blue dogs.

Likewise a manufacturing tax cut would have been popular to all democrats and many republicans. There are basic ideas the White House was not interested in until it was too late. People forget, but we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month during the health care debate - no wonder the process soured most people.

I'm glad the health care bill was passed, but it wasted valuable time that could have been used to address the economy. After Franken won, democrats should have gone on a calculated legislative binge to take advantage of their power. And no, I'm not talking about "spending a bunch of money." As I've pointed out, there were a host of quick bills that could have been passed with no resistance.

-to argue that they didn't address the economy is just flat out bullshit. Stimulus WAS to address the economy -- they wanted more, but had to compromise because Republicans were the party of 'no' from day fucking one

-if they didn't focus on healthcare then, there's NO CHANCE it would have gotten anywhere after they lost the supermajority. And while it's not necessarily an immediate benefit, healthcare reform does help the economy in the long run.

-you're proposing that they waited too long to go after policies that should be popular on all sides -- those are, logically, the policies that CAN wait... because they should be able to pass regardless of who controls what... unless of course the other party goes insane trying to kill the economy to get Obama out of office

-"no resistance" hahahahahahaha

 

[daedalius]

Girl on facebook posts the '5 best sentences you'll ever read', which is basically a diatribe shitting on poor people.

Another girl posts a quote from D.Trump about Healthcare, where he calls out our 'dumbo' president. Then says 'NObama' in her comments.

At this rate I'm not going to have anyone left on there.

I have no problem with substantive discussion, but it seems like no one ever wants to do it; facebooklol.

 

[Loudninja]

People are still saying NObama?

Haha.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'm all for criticizing the Democrats, but how many Democrats do people believe were in the Senate when the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act passed?

This is really important for the discussion.

 

[Snake]

Personally I was anticipating a much worse jobs report than we got, so I'm relatively satisfied.

And even though it's meaningless, that Texas poll gave me a wicked smile. I wish they'd poll all of the no-chance-for-Obama states to see how things currently stand. Maybe Obama has closed the 30+ gap in Oklahoma to a piddling 15.

 

[Kosmo]

I'm all for criticizing the Democrats, but how many Democrats do people believe were in the Senate when the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act passed?

This is really important for the discussion.

It passed 61-36 with 3 Republican votes, one being Specter, who then switched parties. So 60, including Kennedy (I assume all other Democrats voted).