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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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T

The Librarian

Banned
Jackson50 said:
Today's employment report only reinforces the current assessment that the election will be close. As long as the labor market does not contract, which would be an acutely adverse narrative, Obama's prospects are, at worst, a tossup.First, as you acknowledge, Obama was confronted with an obstreperous minority determined to exploit every procedural mechanism to impede Democratic legislation. Second, most underestimated the magnitude of the recession. Third, the overwhelming majority of the ARRA was designated for 2010 and 2011. So it was reasonable to assume the stimulus was going to prove more potent. Of course, upon retrospection the notion was clearly a miscalculation. Last, the notion that Obama did nothing to address the economy after the ARRA is revisionist nonsense. They passed legislation to help homeowners and accelerate the rehabilitation of the housing market. They passed the car rebate legislation. They extended unemployment insurance. They implemented a payroll tax cut in early 2010. Unmistakably, the Administration commited mistakes during their first year. The composition of the ARRA was defective. And I could list other missed opportunities. But, please, predicate your criticisms in reality.
Click to expand...
Obs-obstre-obstrepre-

Goddammit, Jackson50.

*flips through pages of dictionary.com*

adjective
1. resisting control or restraint in a difficult manner; unruly.
2. noisy, clamorous, or boisterous: obstreperous children.

Oh.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
GaimeGuy said:
Don't forget the auto bailouts, which saved the american auto-manufacturing industry
Click to expand...
Right. That was another initiative the Administration handled effectively.
Dax01 said:
Obs-obstre-obstrepre-

Goddammit, Jackson50.

*flips through pages of dictionary.com*

adjective
1. resisting control or restraint in a difficult manner; unruly.
2. noisy, clamorous, or boisterous: obstreperous children.

Oh.
Click to expand...
I won word of the day in our department once because of obstreperous. My prize was a refreshing can of Coke.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
hrMy0.gif
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Kosmo said:
Are people still fucking this chicken? The ones started by Bush?
Click to expand...
Are you still fucking that chicken? Bok. Bok. It certainly sounds like it. Bush extended the initial emergency loan. Then, the Obama Administration expanded and directed the program. He dare claims credit? Keep fucking that chicken. Bok. Bok.
 
turnbuckle

turnbuckle

Member
Kosmo said:
Are people still fucking this chicken? The ones started by Bush?
Click to expand...

You understate Obama's role in the overall bailout of the industry. Started by Bush, but most of the actual implementing took place under Obama's watch and direction. I give credit to Bush for starting the bailout as well.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Kosmo said:
Are people still fucking this chicken? The ones started by Bush?
Click to expand...

I thought the bail outs were awful cause they were a huge giveaway to the unions?

When did the righties think this was a good thing now?
 
A

AstroNut325

Member
Question... several years ago (prior to 07-08 crash) there were reports that upwards of 70% of the US economy was consumption based. Anyone know where we stand today?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
AstroNut325 said:
Question... several years ago (prior to 07-08 crash) there were reports that upwards of 70% of the US economy was consumption based. Anyone know where we stand today?
Click to expand...

Currently, it's 100% government based.

Welcome to Obama's America. :(
 
J

Jackson50

Member
AstroNut325 said:
Question... several years ago (prior to 07-08 crash) there were reports that upwards of 70% of the US economy was consumption based. Anyone know where we stand today?
Click to expand...
The proportion is nearly identical. Personal consumption expenditures (PCE), the official consumption component, is approximately 71% of real GDP.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Jackson50 said:
Today's employment report only reinforces the current assessment that the election will be close. As long as the labor market does not contract, which would be an acutely adverse narrative, Obama's prospects are, at worst, a tossup.First, as you acknowledge, Obama was confronted with an obstreperous minority determined to exploit every procedural mechanism to impede Democratic legislation. Second, most underestimated the magnitude of the recession. Third, the overwhelming majority of the ARRA was designated for 2010 and 2011. So it was reasonable to assume the stimulus was going to prove more potent. Of course, upon retrospection the notion was clearly a miscalculation. Last, the notion that Obama did nothing to address the economy after the ARRA is revisionist nonsense. They passed legislation to help homeowners and accelerate the rehabilitation of the housing market. They passed the car rebate legislation. They extended unemployment insurance. They implemented a payroll tax cut in early 2010. Unmistakably, the Administration commited mistakes during their first year. The composition of the ARRA was defective. And I could list other missed opportunities. But, please, predicate your criticisms in reality.
Click to expand...

As ToxicAdam has already shown, there was plenty of word in 09 that the stimulus wasn't going to cut it.

The problem with the economic steps you listed was that they were largely half assed quick fixes that didn't accomplish much. The housing program was largely panned, the results of the car rebate were mixed, etc. The payroll tax cut's effects are arguable, but even that was done rather late compared to when it could have been passed.

Outside of the stimulus and the auto bailout (which was started by Bush), Obama doesn't have any major piece of legislation or action to show voters with respect to the economy. My point remains that a more focused effort was needed on the economy, especially when democrats had a super majority and could have passed something. I'm not arguing another stimulus was possible, but most of the Jobs Act bill could have been passed in 2009 alongside some big tax cuts - again, perhaps a manufacturing tax cut.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
As ToxicAdam has already shown, there was plenty of word in 09 that the stimulus wasn't going to cut it.

The problem with the economic steps you listed was that they were largely half assed quick fixes that didn't accomplish much. The housing program was largely panned, the results of the car rebate were mixed, etc. The payroll tax cut's effects are arguable, but even that was done rather late compared to when it could have been passed.

Outside of the stimulus and the auto bailout (which was started by Bush), Obama doesn't have any major piece of legislation or action to show voters with respect to the economy. My point remains that a more focused effort was needed on the economy, especially when democrats had a super majority and could have passed something. I'm not arguing another stimulus was possible, but most of the Jobs Act bill could have been passed in 2009 alongside some big tax cuts - again, perhaps a manufacturing tax cut.
Click to expand...

Why exactly does the legislation have to be "Major"? The only reason the stimulus package got as much attention as it did was A)How, relatively mind you, large it was at $750+ Billion, B) It was Obama's very first major piece of legislation he was actively pushing to ease the burden of the economy.

While multiple economists have repeatedly said both in hindsight and in foresight that the stimulus should've been at the very least $1 trillion and some change, most also agree that, for what it was, it got shit done. The three million+ jobs created are a testament to that.

Like Jackson said, he passed multiple bills that didn't get much mainstream media attention, that addressed home owners, student loans, etc. He could easily point to that and, rightfully, use it as his record on the economy.

The bottom line is, Obama has a damn fine record on the economy consider A)He had a Party who was literally ready to throw the ENTIRE country under the bus for the SOLE purpose of seeing both him and his administration fail. Old Boy Mitch admitted it outright. They didn't care about working WITH him. They only wanted him to be a one term president. B)Just how deep the recession got. C)Saving the Auto industry which was a HUGE gamble on his part, of which by all measures, he didn't just get a successful hand, he got a Royal Flush.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
LGBT Magazine The Advocate Endorses Obama

The Advocate, considered by many to be the LGBT publication of record, on Friday gave President Obama the magazine’s first endorsement in decades.

“The Advocate’s last endorsement was decades ago, but the president’s statement of May 9, unequivocally in favor of marriage equality, along with his record on LGBT rights, has distinguished him for the ages and has made it clear that he is a transformational leader and our best choice for president,” Editor in Chief Matthew Breen writes. Obama’s endorsement of same-sex marriage carries real consequences, the editorial continues: “His words constitute action. On the very face of it, his statement is enormous, and has the power to move millions in a way that a statement from no other person could have.”

Breen told TPM he believes it’s the 45-year-old magazine’s first presidential endorsement. “I think you’re seeing a sea change, politically,” Breen said, adding that the announcement has an “enormous impact.”
Click to expand...
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/advocate-endorses-obama.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
As he thanked the group for their support, one of them, Jeff Hawks, gestured to one of the TV's and said, "You're in a building that has Fox news on."
Obama suggested that Hawks ask for it to be changed. "The customer is always right," he said.

"I'll arm-wrestle you for your vote," Hawks said to Obama. "No, I'll play basketball for your vote," he replied.
Click to expand...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/obama-turn-off-fox-news#HTWF2

Pimp smooth.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
PhoenixDark said:
As ToxicAdam has already shown, there was plenty of word in 09 that the stimulus wasn't going to cut it.

The problem with the economic steps you listed was that they were largely half assed quick fixes that didn't accomplish much. The housing program was largely panned, the results of the car rebate were mixed, etc. The payroll tax cut's effects are arguable, but even that was done rather late compared to when it could have been passed.

Outside of the stimulus and the auto bailout (which was started by Bush), Obama doesn't have any major piece of legislation or action to show voters with respect to the economy. My point remains that a more focused effort was needed on the economy, especially when democrats had a super majority and could have passed something. I'm not arguing another stimulus was possible, but most of the Jobs Act bill could have been passed in 2009 alongside some big tax cuts - again, perhaps a manufacturing tax cut.
Click to expand...
First, there was preliminary evidence in the summer of 2009 that the recession was more pronounced than initially measured. But the full magnitude remained concealed until early 2010 when additional revisions exposed the trough of the recession. Further, to the extent that the stimulus was perceived as insufficient, the appropriate amount of stimulus, especially considering that the ARRA had yet to take effect, was not identifiable. Policy is typically not constructed with haste when information is opaque.

Second, at least you've relocated the goal posts from your initial contention that the Administration did nothing. Further, it's not apparent that the alternative policies you've posited are superior to the policies you've dismissed. Tax breaks are generally ineffective mechanisms. And I question the effect of a tax break for a sector that constitutes less than 15% of the economy. But I'm not terribly invested in this argument. I concur the Administration committed a few strategic mistakes. And, again, the composition of the ARRA was defective. I only request that you affix your posts in reality. Obama did not ignore the economy.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
lol the Chairman just can't accept this little thing called "responsibility":

"You guys are bright enough to look at the numbers. I came in and the jobs had been just falling off a cliff. And I came in and they kept falling for 11 months. And then we turned around and we're coming back. And that's progress.

"And if you're going to suggest to me that somehow the day I got elected, somehow jobs should immediately turn around, well that would be silly. It takes a while to get things turned around. We were in a recession; we were losing jobs every month, we've turned around, and since the turn around we've added 50,000 jobs. That's progress.

"There will be some people who try to say, 'Well Mr. President, net-net you've only added a few thousand jobs since you've been in.' Yeah, but I helped stop. I didn't do it alone, the economy's a big part of that, the private sector is what drives that, up and down, but we were in free-fall for three years and the last year of that I happened to be here and then we've turned it around as a country, private sector, government sector turned it around and now we're adding jobs.

"We want to keep that going to the extent we can. We're the, you know, we're one part of that equation but not the whole thing. A lot of it is out of our control."
Click to expand...

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/06/12603669-a-simple-defense

Come on, you know where this was going.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Jackson50 said:
First, there was preliminary evidence in the summer of 2009 that the recession was more pronounced than initially measured. But the full magnitude remained concealed until early 2010 when additional revisions exposed the trough of the recession. Further, to the extent that the stimulus was perceived as insufficient, the appropriate amount of stimulus, especially considering that the ARRA had yet to take effect, was not identifiable. Policy is typically not constructed with haste when information is opaque.

Second, at least you've relocated the goal posts from your initial contention that the Administration did nothing. Further, it's not apparent that the alternative policies you've posited are superior to the policies you've dismissed. Tax breaks are generally ineffective mechanisms. And I question the effect of a tax break for a sector that constitutes less than 15% of the economy. But I'm not terribly invested in this argument. I concur the Administration committed a few strategic mistakes. And, again, the composition of the ARRA was defective. I only request that you affix your posts in reality. Obama did not ignore the economy.
Click to expand...

Going to have to agree with Jackson50 here PD. You seem to have forgotten what happen in the summer of 2009 as well. It happen in a lot of town halls in August. I'm sure those constituents would have loved to hear from their Congressman about how they we're going to spend more of their tax dollars on manufacturing giants such as Solyndra or other give a ways to Obama backers. Would have loved the back dropped of him actually "shoving more stimulus down our throats" with also a corruption angle the right wing could work. Not to mention the attacks that already exist of the stimulus supporting overseas jobs or helping minorities that "didn't deserve it".

Also, you're solution for solving employment seems to focus largely on manufacturing and tax breaks. You don't even state what is actually hurting us right now which is the layoffs at the state and local government level. If we had not gotten rid of those hundreds of thousands of positions, then the employment rate would be at or below 7%. Since we did get rid of them, Obama should consider running on fact that he is the only President in the last 30 years to actually shrink the size of government.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Oblivion said:
lol the Chairman just can't accept this little thing called "responsibility":



http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/06/12603669-a-simple-defense

Come on, you know where this was going.
Click to expand...
You're on a roll lately.

There's a poll that has Obama up by 1 nationally, 43-42. I find it a little weird because:

1) relatively high number of undecideds

2) they claim the reason is because of ACA, but it also says Americans now approve of the law 48-44 since the SCOTUS ruling.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Byakuya769 said:
Neither. We just argue for charity over entitlements, do nothing, and then express our love through spittle infused tirades against the people ruining our America. Which by the way, is God's country. It's in the bible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the charity argument holds no water whatsoever. If we could support all of the needy based on voluntary charity then we wouldn't need any of those government programs in the first place.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
US declares Afghanistan major non-NATO ally

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — The Obama administration on Saturday declared Afghanistan the United States' newest "major non-NATO ally," an action designed to facilitate close defense cooperation after U.S. combat troops withdraw from the country in 2014 and as a political statement of support for Afghanistan's long-term stability.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton announced that President Barack Obama had designated Afghanistan as a major non-NATO ally shortly after arriving in the country for talks with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
"We see this as a powerful commitment to Afghanistan's future," she said at a news conference in the grand courtyard of Kabul's Presidential Palace. "We are not even imagining abandoning Afghanistan."
Clinton insisted that progress was coming incrementally but consistently to the war-torn nation after decades of conflict. "The security situation is more stable," she said. Afghan forces "are improving their capacity."
At the news conference, Karzai welcomed Clinton to Kabul and thanked the U.S. for its continued support.
Click to expand...
http://news.yahoo.com/us-declares-afghanistan-major-non-nato-ally-030534568.html
 
C

Chumly

Member
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, the charity argument holds no water whatsoever. If we could support all of the needy based on voluntary charity then we wouldn't need any of those government programs in the first place.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Gingrich gave a whopping 2.6% of his 3.1 million of 2010 earnings to charity. In four years Santorum couldn't crack 3%. And to think these people are considered the "true Christians".
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, the charity argument holds no water whatsoever. If we could support all of the needy based on voluntary charity then we wouldn't need any of those government programs in the first place.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The act of forming a government (or being born into one and agreeing to live by its rules) is the acknowledgment that there are certain things that no individual or business is capable of doing. That's why the conservative hysteria against socialism is so hysterical -- government starts with socialism.
 
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