PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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Forever said:
No, Obama will still be the first incumbent to be outspent overall and before Citizen's United Obama was the most successful fundraiser in history.
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But if you talk direct head to head that is not the case. The other salient point is that in the end it will not matter, since he was still able to win. It's hard to make a compelling case when the "victim" out raises his opponent head to head and when he still wins handily despite all the money being poured in.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
This is terrible logic.

That's like me saying that because I didn't die of lung cancer this year, smoking obviously doesn't matter.
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But smoking is quite addictive, you think the Democracts are going to quit? Especially as more Democrats start using the tools available.

Regardless I don't think there has been any proof that it has allowed the election to be subverted in one way or another.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
But if you talk direct head to head that is not the case.
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Because the campaigns are still bound by federal restrictions on donations and spending. The result of Citizen's United are the SuperPACs. What the hell are you even talking about?

It's hard to make a compelling case when the "victim" out raises his opponent head to head and when he still wins handily despite all the money being poured in.
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What the fuck? The problem with Citizen's United is not one of party. The problem is that wealthy individuals can purchase an enormously disproportionate share of influence over the democratic process. Less capable grassroots fundraisers than Obama would have to kowtow to them regardless of party affiliation.

You are so incredibly wrongheaded on this issue from top to bottom.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
But if you talk direct head to head that is not the case. The other salient point is that in the end it will not matter, since he was still able to win. It's hard to make a compelling case when the "victim" out raises his opponent head to head and when he still wins handily despite all the money being poured in.
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The bigger point is how much more would Romney be losing by without the aid of super PACs.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
But smoking is quite addictive, you think the Democracts are going to quit? Especially as more Democrats start using the tools available.

Regardless I don't think there has been any proof that it has allowed the election to be subverted in one way or another.
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Obama gets small donor money. The argument is that in a democracy, out of principle, if you're getting millions and millions to donate, and it's equalling the donating power 5 of five super rich guys, that democracy is being bought by a few, instead of engaged in effectively by the many.


The fact that Obama is an inspirational nd transformational figure that inspired millions upon millions to donate for his cause is not the same as 5 guys writing tens of million in checks as an INVESTMENT designed to get them more money in the long term with lower taxes and looser regulations.



Citizens United is still a problem and along with voter suppression a naked attempt by republicans to stay competitive by further silencing the 99% and amplifying the voice and power of the 1%
 
God, I hate trying to talk to Republicans, I really do. Manos clearly doesn't have the slightest conception of what Citizen's United actually does or what the arguments against it are but here he is trying to defend it by reflex because it came from "his side" so it must be good. Derp.
 
Forever said:
Because the campaigns are still bound by federal restrictions on donations and spending. The result of Citizen's United are the SuperPACs. What the hell are you even talking about?


What the fuck? The problem with Citizen's United is not one of party. The problem is that wealthy individuals can purchase an enormously disproportionate share of influence over the democratic process. Less capable grassroots fundraisers than Obama would have to kowtow to them regardless of party affiliation.

You are so incredibly wrongheaded with on this issue from top to bottom.
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You would think conservatives would be outraged about citizens united since the constitutionality of the BCRA §203 was never raised. The issue reaised before the courts was whether or not Citizens United violated the BCRA. Typically a constitutional challenge to the BCRA would need to be brought before the courts for them to rule upon it.

I mean, if anything is judicial activism, it's making a ruling about a constitutional issue that hasn't been brought before the courts in order to strike down a law that the court was merely being asked to discern if it applied to the situation at hand.

(Also: I'm back, bitches!)
 
speculawyer said:
She has got to have made the biggest career out of nearly no substantive office holding. A half-term governor of a state of 700,000 people. There are tons of Senators with more important careers and you've never heard of them.
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She made a brilliant move career wise pandering to the extreme right but she has
no right to criticize other people trying to
run since she was a collasal failure running as vp
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Meaning that all the cries and claims about Citizens United....were wrong. Obama winning will pretty much kill the biggest claims related to Superpacs and the fact he had more than Romney will go a long way to getting most Dems to drop the Citizens United angle...since it kind of either didn't matter or benefited them.
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This has to be one of the worst analogies ever. Just because Obama will be able overcome it doesn't mean that it's not wrong.
 
Forever said:
God, I hate trying to talk to Republicans, I really do. Manos clearly doesn't have the slightest conception of what Citizen's United actually does or what the arguments against it are but here he is trying to defend it by reflex because it came from "his side" so it must be good. Derp.
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Manos isn't a Republican per se, he seems to subscribe to the "both parties are equally bad" false equivalency bullshit.
 
richiek said:
Manos isn't a Republican per se, he's seems to subscribe to the "both parties are equally bad" false equivalency bullshit.
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He is a libertarian. That means he identifies with republican stances on morality and economic philosophy and most social issues, but likes weed and has an isolationist attitude twoards foreign policy.
 
GaimeGuy said:
He is a libertarian.
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Even more out of touch with reality than the Creationists.

I used to give him the benefit of the doubt but after that vapid tripe he offered on this page I won't make that mistake again. It's sad day when even the libertarians are celebrating ignorance of the issues. Has the GOP truly eradicated all traces of intellectualism from their party? That's not just their loss, it's a loss for the country.
 
Oblivion said:
Wait, wtf?

I'm super confused, how the fuck does this even WORK? Do these assholes just randomly show up and confront people waiting in lines with questions? I mean, wtf?
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I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to do that. If it happened to me I'd call the ACLU or the cops or someone.
 
Oblivion said:
Wait, wtf?

I'm super confused, how the fuck does this even WORK? Do these assholes just randomly show up and confront people waiting in lines with questions? I mean, wtf?
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There's no way they can be legal, so a call for the cops could possibly get rid of them. Other than that, please throw an email at the Obama campaign team so that they're more aware of them, though I'm pretty sure they are already, but it can't hurt to have more!
 
Forever said:
Even more out of touch with reality than the Creationists.

I used to give him the benefit of the doubt but after that vapid tripe he offered on this page I won't make that mistake again. It's sad day when even the libertarians are celebrating ignorance of the issues. Has the GOP truly eradicated all traces of intellectualism from their party? That's not just their loss, it's a loss for the country.
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I would say that this is the kind of unproductive vitriol that has driven all the conservatives away from PoliGAF if it weren't for the fact that Manos is registered and votes Democratic.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Meaning that all the cries and claims about Citizens United....were wrong. Obama winning will pretty much kill the biggest claims related to Superpacs and the fact he had more than Romney will go a long way to getting most Dems to drop the Citizens United angle...since it kind of either didn't matter or benefited them.
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As noted above, the results of one particular election doesn't really have any bearing on whether Citizens United was a good ruling or not. Personally I think we need stricter campaign finance reform regardless of the outcome of individual elections. It's possible that some Democratic politicians might not care as much after this, though, but I think it's an error to suggest that everybody against the ruling was against it because they were afraid of losing. I just don't think it's very good law (in the sense that I don't think it accomplishes things that are good for the country).
 
Forever said:
God, I hate trying to talk to Republicans, I really do. Manos clearly doesn't have the slightest conception of what Citizen's United actually does or what the arguments against it are but here he is trying to defend it by reflex because it came from "his side" so it must be good. Derp.
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Lol

GaimeGuy said:
He is a libertarian. That means he identifies with republican stances on morality and economic philosophy and most social issues, but likes weed and has an isolationist attitude twoards foreign policy.
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Double lol

richiek said:
Manos isn't a Republican per se, he seems to subscribe to the "both parties are equally bad" false equivalency bullshit.
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Triple lol
 
This just in: Football team wins game despite being heavily penalized, proving that penalties are pointless!

In other news: Black man is elected president, ending racism forever.
 
Despite getting off on the wrong foot in an occupy thread , I like having Manos around. He's a decent guy. His gun schtick keeps my opinion on that subject a bit more wider than it might otherwise be.
 
lj167 said:
I'm fairly certain that "Contrarian" is the best label for Manos.
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Attorney.

RDreamer said:
Despite getting off on the wrong foot in an occupy thread , I like having Manos around. He's a decent guy. His gun schtick keeps my opinion on that subject a bit more wider than it might otherwise be.
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Well I try to do what I can. :) I do think the thing with Occupy was the reason I got the most...disdain from people otherwise most of my things are either satirical or middle of the road...or Jew jokes.

That's said one of the most humorous things is when certain people agree with me they first feel the need to post a disclaimer first.
 
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