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[Vestal]

A lot of people were expecting Obama to go full offensive and bring up Bain, and the 47% comment, and since he didn't are shitting all over that fact..

Lets face a few facts here that I think should put all of this in perspective.

1. This was the first debate, and off course the Challenger to an incumbent will come out looking good by just being there. It is a lot easier to attack an incumbent than it is for an incumbent to attack the challenger particularly when said challenger flip flops on every single thing he has proposed in the past.

2. Obama is the POTUS. He does not have the luxury of time that Romney had to prepare for this debate, or have a Primary season to get him in Debate shape.

3. Romney IMO had already hit rock bottom, or close to it in how people viewed him. Outside of him coming out as the AntiChrist there was hardly anything he could do that would make him look bad in this debate, simply because expectations were so low.

4. The problem Obama has a lot of times in debates, is that he actually thinks his answers instead of spewing talking points.

5. The damage from Bain and 47% is already done.. He took the higher road in regards to those attacks, because if he went that way it would be considered character assassination and something that the POTUS should be above. It is something that should be brought up by surrogates and ads.

6. The moderator was absolutely atrocious. He had no control of the Debate.

 

[Averon]

It somehow needs to be made the background of PoliGAF for the next 3 weeks

Also, on the subject of early voting...



Also, raw numbers: 16% voted early in 2000, 22% in 2004, 31% in 2008.

And it's higher this year.

This is nice to see. Romney will be severely behind due to early voting on election day. He would have to massacre Obama on election day in OH to make up Obama's lead from early voting.

 

[Eidan]

Unfortunately the target audience for these debates wants the exact opposite out of them that you do. They want a strong, confident leader who doesn't go after his opponent.

Strange. I'd think they'd want a strong, confident leader who is willing to defend what he believes in and attack positions and policies that he believes will further hurt the middle class. Obama spent more time smiling and smirking than actually fighting back.

What's even more frustrating about it is that this debate could only really decide the choices of undecided voters. These voters aren't undecided because "Oh the choice is just so TOUGH". They're undecided because they're low-information voters. They're not the kind of people who will go to PolitiFact or some other fact checker. They will go with whatever they hear. If Obama isn't willing to call Romney out, these voters will simply believe him.

 

[Tim-E]

A lot of people were expecting Obama to go full offensive and bring up Bain, and the 47% comment, and since he didn't are shitting all over that fact..

Lets face a few facts here that I think should put all of this in perspective.

1. This was the first debate, and off course the Challenger to an incumbent will come out looking good by just being there. It is a lot easier to attack an incumbent than it is for an incumbent to attack the challenger particularly when said challenger flip flops on every single thing he has proposed in the past.

2. Obama is the POTUS. He does not have the luxury of time that Romney had to prepare for this debate, or have a Primary season to get him in Debate shape.

3. Romney IMO had already hit rock bottom, or close to it in how people viewed him. Outside of him coming out as the AntiChrist there was hardly anything he could do that would make him look bad in this debate, simply because expectations were so low.

4. The problem Obama has a lot of times in debates, is that he actually thinks his answers instead of spewing talking points.

5. The damage from Bain and 47% is already done.. He took the higher road in regards to those attacks, because if he went that way it would be considered character assassination and something that the POTUS should be above. It is something that should be brought up by surrogates and ads.

6. The moderator was absolutely atrocious. He had no control of the Debate.

Thank you.

 

[DragonSworne]

How are people letting Romney get away with his non answer to his tax cuts?

Do people not realize that if doesn't add to the deficit that he has to take away all middle class tax deductions?

Are people really so dumb that they don't realize how badly they'll be screwed over by his tax plan?

 

[Eidan]

How are people letting Romney get away with his non answer to his tax cuts?

Do people not realize that if doesn't add to the deficit that he has to take away all middle class tax deductions?

Are people really so dumb that they don't realize how badly they'll be screwed over by his tax plan?

Obama did a bad job of really nailing this. At any point did he ask Romney to say what deductions or loopholes he'd get rid of?

 

[Owzers]

How are people letting Romney get away with his non answer to his tax cuts?

Do people not realize that if doesn't add to the deficit that he has to take away all middle class tax deductions?

Are people really so dumb that they don't realize how badly they'll be screwed over by his tax plan?

I'm not a professor who checks the work in a math problem, just circle the answer and i'm good.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

How are people letting Romney get away with his non answer to his tax cuts?

Do people not realize that if doesn't add to the deficit that he has to take away all middle class tax deductions?

Are people really so dumb that they don't realize how badly they'll be screwed over by his tax plan?

Romney did answer the question of tax cuts. Yes, Romney wants a 20% tax cut, an additional 2 trillion in military spending and another trillion in extending the bush era tax cuts. He said numerous times though that he will not cut a tax that adds to the deficit. The plan is to pay for all this by closing loopholes in the tax code but we just don't know the details.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Does anyone remember the debates on 04?

I know that was a long time ago, but it started the same way.

Bush's first debate was an extremely weak showing, even weaker in comparison than Obama's; Bush looked almost senile compared to Kerry who was on the offensive.

In some sense, for a sitting President, it must be like "Seriously? I'm here trying to save the world and I have to deal with this shit?" type of thing.

I thought that Bush picked it up tremendously after the first debate. He was like an entirely different candidate.

 

[DragonSworne]

Romney did answer the question of tax cuts. Yes, Romney wants a 20% tax cut, an additional 2 trillion in military spending and another trillion in extending the bush era tax cuts. He said numerous times though that he will not cut a tax that adds to the deficit. The plan is to pay for all this by closing loopholes in the tax code but we just don't know the details.

So he'll pay for it either through magic or he'll have to get rid of all deductions....

Awesome plan

 

[Eidan]

The first debate was indeed awful for Bush. In fact, though he improved, I'd say most people felt Kerry won all three. It goes to show how little debates really matter.

Still, Obama can't have a performance like last night again. I think he'll be at his best during the town hall debate.

 

[Averon]

First ad from the Obama camp about the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZniwrAwZGY

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Does anyone remember the debates on 04?

I know that was a long time ago, but it started the same way.

Bush's first debate was an extremely weak showing, even weaker in comparison than Obama's; Bush looked almost senile compared to Kerry who was on the offensive.

In some sense, for a sitting President, it must be like "Seriously? I'm here trying to save the world and I have to deal with this shit?" type of thing.

I thought that Bush picked it up tremendously after the first debate. He was like an entirely different candidate.

Yes, Bush was AWFUL in the first 2004 debate. Like, is-there-something-wrong-with-him bad. Had to be the worst presidential debate performance in modern history.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

So he'll pay for it either through magic or he'll have to get rid of all deductions....

Awesome plan

There is no magic invlolved, only the closing of loopholes and deductions.

 

[Byakuya769]

How are people letting Romney get away with his non answer to his tax cuts?

Do people not realize that if doesn't add to the deficit that he has to take away all middle class tax deductions?

Are people really so dumb that they don't realize how badly they'll be screwed over by his tax plan?

Obama let him get away with it too. He should have asked "what deductions end?", "what independent sources scored your plan", and "what is your actual tax plan, point blank?"

 

[Owzers]

First ad from the Obama camp about the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZniwrAwZGY

That was actually a great ad. I think all liberals are wishing tone for ads would translate on the stage. Obama tried for the tax thing, but Romney greased himself with butter before the debate so nothing stuck. My tax plan? Details? Well sir, let me just say that the math works when i don't have to tell you it.

 

[Averon]

There is no magic invlolved, only the closing of loopholes and deductions.

Which he never explains what they are because he know it'll be politically toxic.

 

[DragonSworne]

Yes, Bush was AWFUL in the first 2004 debate. Like, is-there-something-wrong-with-him bad. Had to be the worst presidential debate performance in modern history.

Bush had an advantage then that Obama doesn't, a 24/7 news network that will spent might and day attacking his opponent.

This time the narrative will be consistent on all networks which is a shame. The media as a awhole plays so easily into republican tactics. The biggest offense is how Romney treated the moderator last night.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Which he never explains what they are because he know it'll be politically toxic.

When is discussing tax code not politically toxic

 

[isoquant]

What was most embarrassing about Obama's performance was that he couldn't even get his opening spiel out of his mouth without a series of 'ums' and 'ahs' and awkward stumbles. Did he prep at all?

 

[DragonSworne]

There is no magic invlolved, only the closing of loopholes and deductions.

I know a lot of people who will go bankrupt if there deductions are taken away, me included.

Romney's plan is dangerous to america

 

[Effect]

First ad from the Obama camp about the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZniwrAwZGY

This is the big positive that came out the debate. The contrast that can be made of Romney against Romney and the fact checking. Obama's team just needs to pump ads out that show this everywhere they can.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I know a lot of people who will go bankrupt if there deductions are taken away, me included.

Romney's plan is dangerous to america

How do you know you will go bankrupt if he has not detailed the loopholes he wants the close or deductions that need to be made? Be specific.

 

[pigeon]

There is no magic invlolved, only the closing of loopholes and deductions.

That's exactly what a magician would say. An actual politician would have examples.

 

[Eidan]

What was most embarrassing about Obama's performance was that he couldn't even get his opening spiel out of his mouth without a series of 'ums' and 'ahs' and awkward stumbles. Did he prep at all?

That's how Obama talks. In every interview. Any time he's speaking off the cuff. I assume even while whispering nothings in Michelle's ear.

 

[DragonSworne]

How do you know you will go bankrupt if he has not detailed the loopholes he wants the close or deductions that need to be made? Be specific.

If he takes away my mortgage deduction, my student loan deductions and my state deduction for my federal taxes I will not have any money. I will pay more for taxes and will not be able to afford my loans.

Those are the only deductions that can pay for romneys tax cut. All other loopholes and deductions do not close to account for 7 TRILLION

 

[Gucci Messiah]

That's exactly what a magician would say. An actual politician would have examples.

He's probably still deciding what exactly to close and what precise deductions need to be made. It's been proven that his plan is possible and that Obama's five trillion claim is false.

 

[DragonSworne]

He's probably still deciding what exactly to close and what precise deductions need to be made. It's been proven that his plan is possible and that Obama's five trillion claim is false.

How is that number false?

 

[Measley]

So much for the liberal biased media.

 

[BSsBrolly]

What was most embarrassing about Obama's performance was that he couldn't even get his opening spiel out of his mouth without a series of 'ums' and 'ahs' and awkward stumbles. Did he prep at all?

Huh? He spoke just fine. I don't remember very many ums or ahs at all.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

If he takes away my mortgage deduction, my student loan deductions and my state deduction for my federal taxes I will not have any money. I will pay more for taxes and will not be able to afford my loans.

Those are the only deductions that can pay for romneys tax cut. All other loopholes and deductions do not close to account for 7 TRILLION

Romney camp has already said that the mortgage deduction is off the table. I'm not an expert on the tax code but I highly doubt what you listed are the only ways he can reach that 7 trillion dollar mark.

 

[IrishNinja]

That's exactly what a magician would say. An actual politician would have examples.

i really wish you'd stop wrecking all these narratives with logic, damaging people's unfounded thesis like that is surely against the TOS

It's been proven that his plan is possible and that Obama's five trillion claim is false.

has it now? can you point to something solid backing that?

I'm not an expert on the tax code but I highly doubt what you listed are the only ways he can reach that 7 trillion dollar mark.

that's true, there's an infinite number of ways to do this when you just make up answers

 

[pigeon]

He's probably still deciding what exactly to close and what precise deductions need to be made. It's been proven that his plan is possible and that Obama's five trillion claim is false.

Gt a link?

 

[Measley]

He's probably still deciding what exactly to close and what precise deductions need to be made. It's been proven that his plan is possible and that Obama's five trillion claim is false.

How the fuck do you not know what loopholes to close at this point? If Romney wins, he'll be president 8 weeks after election day.

He knows exactly what he's going to cut and close. He's just not going to admit to what he's going to do because it attacks the middle class.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Gt a link?

Turn on the tv

 

[markatisu]

First ad from the Obama camp about the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZniwrAwZGY

Yup I told you guys last night, it was mining for ads that will now be blitzed nationwide

Now everyone who says Obama was just weak can gtfo

I expect many more ads by the weekend, using Romney's own words

 

[3rdman]

How do you know you will go bankrupt if he has not detailed the loopholes he wants the close or deductions that need to be made? Be specific.

Irony....

 

[Gucci Messiah]

i really wish you'd stop wrecking all these narratives with logic, damaging people's unfounded thesis like that is surely against the TOS



has it now? can you point to something solid backing that?



that's true, there's an infinite number of ways to do this when you just make up answers

Yeah, CNN is a pretty trusted source. Turn on the tv and stop getting hostile over a message board post. I'm not even a Romney backer but somebody has to provide a realistic perspective of him instead of all the demonizing that goes on here.

 

[dabig2]

Turn on the tv

We don't want talking heads. We want research and numbers.

 

[DragonSworne]

Yup I told you guys last night, it was mining for ads that will now be blitzed nationwide

Now everyone who says Obama was just weak can gtfo

I expect many more ads by the weekend, using Romney's own words

Media needs to stop pretending that Romney's plan is incomplete or not enough details.

We all know what deductions Romney is talking about.

 

[KingGondo]

Turn on the tv

Are you remotely interested in having an actual debate?

 

[IrishNinja]

He's probably still deciding what exactly to close and what precise deductions need to be made. It's been proven that his plan is possible and that Obama's five trillion claim is false.

Turn on the tv

...man, i tried way too hard in high school debate

Yeah, CNN is a pretty trusted source. Turn on the tv and stop getting hostile over a message board post. I'm not even a Romney backer but somebody has to provide a realistic perspective of him instead of all the demonizing that goes on here.

read this twice, still no links oddly
i did find an interesting take on hostility, though

 

[pigeon]

Turn on the tv

You can just say "no, I don't, I'm just parroting talking points with less than zero actual knowledge and you should assume everything I write is bullshit." We won't mock you.*



* Not only WILL we mock you, we have already started.

 

[isoquant]

Yup I told you guys last night, it was mining for ads that will now be blitzed nationwide

Now everyone who says Obama was just weak can gtfo

I expect many more ads by the weekend, using Romney's own words

Yep, all part of Obama's plan. This guy is a genius.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Irony....

How can I be specific about Romney's plan if he has not? Don't shoot the messenger with your snarky comments. I'm just repeating what the so called experts are saying on TV and using a bit of common sense.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Turn on the tv

Disappointing, seriously.

 

[Stinkles]

Yup I told you guys last night, it was mining for ads that will now be blitzed nationwide

Now everyone who says Obama was just weak can gtfo

I expect many more ads by the weekend, using Romney's own words

I don't think Obama was weak, and I don't think he lost any moral or intellectual ground, but last night's Romney victory reminded me of the problem that even smart people expect these debates to be won on style, not substance. Which has been true since the invention of radio, but is nonetheless pathetic. Every single quote last night about prior debate victories was a stylistic riposte, with the exception of Clinton's opening against Dole.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

You can just say "no, I don't, I'm just parroting talking points with less than zero actual knowledge and you should assume everything I write is bullshit." We won't mock you.*



* Not only WILL we mock you, we have already

lol I'm just going to ignore you want to throw around personal attacks

 

[Black Republican]

im an hour into this and people are saying obama lost? sorry im not seeing it. Romneys best performance compared to his gop debates though, not as flusted.

if u wanted zingers, gaffe moments etc, to the average watcher its quite boring (which im happy about)

I dont mind jim letting them have their own time, it might be just me but i preferred it this way.

 

[Averon]

Turn on the tv

That's a non-answer