TacticalFox88
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If Fox News is criticizing Romney's tax plans you know it's fucked up.
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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.
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casinoman921
Member
PhoenixDark
Banned
Cheebs 1Gallup
RV 48-46 O (-1)
LV 49-47 R (Same)
Approval 48-47 (Net -1)
Black Mamba 0
Yeah not good!If Fox News is criticizing Romney's tax plans you know it's fucked up.
Black Republican
Member
wow, rip arlen specter
wow, rip arlen specter
Oh no. Pennsylvania thanks him for his service.
Gallup
RV 48-46 O (O-1)
LV 49-47 R (Same)
Approval 48-47 (Net -1)
Can we stop with the notion that Romney's bounce is gone? That number excludes the 3 days after the debate and Obama still lost ground in the RV poll.
Obama is a pro-gay, pro-choice, black Democrat with a foreign name.
He is the living, breathing embodiment of ALL that they hate.
In my neck of the woods that is all that is discussed about him. Nothing else, none of the good, nothing. It is very frustrating.
Obama is a pro-gay, pro-choice, black Democrat with a foreign name.
He is the living, breathing embodiment of ALL that they hate.
Pretty much this, and it shows. Obama has brought out the worst in Republicans.
Red Blaster
Member
Cheebs 1
Black Mamba 0
And to top it off there were 70 billion people at today's Ohio Romney Rally
I'm saying that attacking people's faith like that is going to win NO ONE over. If you want to win over people to being more open to progress that may conflict with what they perceive as religious beliefs, ridiculing them will immediately discredit anything you say to them. Be open and be respectful when engaging others, because no progress will be made if all you're doing is spouting off some bullshit that only fans of Bill Maher will enjoy. When 4 out of every 5 people in the US identify as being religious and you want to make some leeway in terms of political progress, you'll get absolutely nowhere if you're talking down to 80% of the population.
I absolutely agree that pointing out the absurdities in a religion won't convince the true faithful, but then again, almost nothing would convince most true believers anyway. But the fact of the matter is that a large swath of America are casually religious not dyed in blue Christians, and pointing out religious absurdities does reach them, because many of them aren't even aware of those absurdities and contradictions. In the end if you aren't pointing out the flaws in a religion, what other means do you have of convincing others of the problems with that religion? In an age where religions have been used as an excuse to take rights from gays and women, to hinder the progress of medicine, and to demonize protection of the environment, it's time people start drawing attention to these flaws to take their credibility away rather than pretending they don't exist to avoid hurting some bigot's feelings.
I see so much negativity about Florida recently...why?
And Virginia too. Isn't he still up there?
Romney's up 3-7 points in the last few Florida polls, and 2-7 in the last couple Virgina ones. 538 is currently giving Romney a 66% chance of winning FL and 51% for VA.
In an age where religions have been used as an excuse to take rights from gays and women, to hinder the progress of medicine, and to demonize protection of the environment, it's time people start drawing attention to these flaws to take their credibility away rather than pretending they don't exist to avoid hurting some bigot's feelings.
The "casual" moderate Christians you're talking about would be easier to reach by pointing out the practical and moral failings of these reactionary policies then by explaining to them how they're stupid and so should agree with you.
speculawyer
Member
And Romney could counter by bringing up companies that took stimulus money and sent jobs to China. Obviously not the same thing, but enough to muddy the waters for voters which is the main point. I don't see this working
People already know Romney is a heartless business man yet he's still leading in the polls. Don't see doubling down in that working
It did work. The Bain capital Romney lays off American workers and ships their jobs to China think completely worked. That is why Obama still leads Ohio despite Romney's boost from the debate.
And there were 'Buy American' restrictions in the stimulus package. For example, the oft-repeated story about electric cars built in Finland is a lie. They had always planned on building the Karma (their first car) at a contract factory in Finland whereas the Nina/Atlantic was to be built in Delaware. They got some of the money to work on the design of the Nina/Atlantic which was spent in the USA (at their design center). But when project got delayed, they got CUT-OFF from the ATVM loan.
BTW, despite being an EV advocate, I would not have given Fisker any money. Their car is beautiful but the engineering sucks, they don't have their act together, they have not sufficiently proven themselves, it is too expensive, etc. Tesla is borderline but at least they have a plausible business model and have proven they can get functioning product out the door.
Romney's up 3-7 points in the last few Florida polls, and 2-7 in the last couple Virgina ones. 538 is currently giving Romney a 66% chance of winning FL and 51% for VA.
His lead in Florida is surprising considering what he wants to do to Medicare.
Romney's up 3-7 points in the last few Florida polls, and 2-7 in the last couple Virgina ones. 538 is currently giving Romney a 66% chance of winning FL and 51% for VA.
In Virginia? Am I missing a bunch of polls?
something something old people vote against their own interestHis lead in Florida is surprising considering what he wants to do to Medicare.
His lead in Florida is surprising considering what he wants to do to Medicare.
It's Florida.
In Virginia? Am I missing a bunch of polls?
538 assumes from the trackers and general national shift that Obama's doing worse than that or is likely to.
The "casual" moderate Christians you're talking about would be easier to reach by pointing out the practical and moral failings of these reactionary policies then by explaining to them how they're stupid and so should agree with you.
Different people can be reached different ways depending on the point you are trying to make and who you are trying to convince. Pointing out the crazier beliefs of Scientology that many people are unaware of, for example, is effective in turning people away from joining that religion.
something something old people vote against their own interest
Nothing in Romney/Ryan's plan touches Medicare for retirees or near retirees.
Regarding the lead Kaine's opened on Allen in VA- I didn't think anything of it at first, but they've been bombarding the radio airwaves here with a Kaine ad from the debate going after Allen's record on reproductive rights. Might be related, might not be, but I'd love to see the demographics of the polls.
Yup. Their internals must match what we're seeing.Sen. Rob Portman: Romney 'Probably' Could Win Election Without Winning Ohio
Damage control.
speculawyer
Member
His lead in Florida is surprising considering what he wants to do to Medicare.
It is certainly very frustrating but not surprising. Those old farts in Florida voted for the CEO responsible for the world's largest CRIMINAL fraud of medicare EVER. It resulted in the largest fine of a healthcare company ever. They deserve whatever stupidity Scott foists on them.
Nothing in Romney/Ryan's plan touches Medicare for retirees or near retirees.
Yeah its everyone else it fucks over LOL
speculawyer
Member
Nothing in Romney/Ryan's plan touches Medicare for retirees or near retirees.
But they cut out $716 billion just like Obama did and they make it look just like Obama is the big meanie for doing that WHEN THEY DID THE EXACT SAME THING. It is another one of those things where it seems that if there is a conflict about who took the cookies from the cookie jar, the old people are gonna blame the black guy.
This is probably some of the best news I've seen all weekend. Incredibly telling.Regarding the lead Kaine's opened on Allen in VA- I didn't think anything of it at first, but they've been bombarding the radio airwaves here with a Kaine ad from the debate going after Allen's record on reproductive rights. Might be related, might not be, but I'd love to see the demographics of the polls.
Quote:
Sen. Rob Portman: Romney 'Probably' Could Win Election Without Winning Ohio
Damage control.
Yup. Their internals must match what we're seeing.
This is probably some of the best news I've seen all weekend. Incredibly telling.
The full quote isn't quite so damage control-ish.
p.s people have been asking about you in the Wii U thread..
Different people can be reached different ways depending on the point you are trying to make and who you are trying to convince. Pointing out the crazier beliefs of Scientology that many people are unaware of, for example, is effective in turning people away from joining that religion.
Hopefully it should be clear that there is a difference between the strategies that will convince undecided people to avoid joining an unpopular and shrinking religion they don't know much about and those that will convince people who already belong to an extensive and mainstream religion whose tenets they are mainly familiar with to agree with you on other topics that are essentially orthogonal to the question of faith altogether.
Here's the thing: there are three groups here. Group 1, people who are passably Christian and vaguely support Christianist policies. Group 2, people who are passably Christian and reject Christianist policies. Group 3, people who reject Christianity and also reject Christianist policies. What makes you think it would be easier to move people from group 1 to group 3, rather than just shifting them over to group 2?
(And let me say, if you just don't like religion and want to get rid of it for its own sake, that's fine -- although I obviously don't really agree, I understand where that's coming from. But trying to convert everybody away from Christianity in order to oppose evangelical reactionary policies is like trying to cut down a tree because you don't like one of its branches.)
New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Nevada, Iowa are tossups only after you heavily weight adjust them as Nate is doing. This is between the 1st and 2nd debates. All Obama has to do is give an average performance the next two debates, which is overly conservative.
In order for Romney to win, he'd have to somehow clean out each debate, blanket ads across swing states, and pay off the moderators to not bring up abortion, tax specifics, his tax dodging, his contradictions, etc.
In order for Romney to win, he'd have to somehow clean out each debate, blanket ads across swing states, and pay off the moderators to not bring up abortion, tax specifics, his tax dodging, his contradictions, etc.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'll give conservative 3 days before one of them says something ugly about Specter
rip
rip
Hopefully it should be clear that there is a difference between the strategies that will convince undecided people to avoid joining an unpopular and shrinking religion they don't know much about and those that will convince people who already belong to an extensive and mainstream religion whose tenets they are mainly familiar with to agree with you on other topics that are essentially orthogonal to the question of faith altogether.
Here's the thing: there are three groups here. Group 1, people who are passably Christian and vaguely support Christianist policies. Group 2, people who are passably Christian and reject Christianist policies. Group 3, people who reject Christianity and also reject Christianist policies. What makes you think it would be easier to move people from group 1 to group 3, rather than just shifting them over to group 2?
(And let me say, if you just don't like religion and want to get rid of it for its own sake, that's fine -- although I obviously don't really agree, I understand where that's coming from. But trying to convert everybody away from Christianity in order to oppose evangelical reactionary policies is like trying to cut down a tree because you don't like one of its branches.)
This post more eloquently gets my point across far better than my own did. Thank you.
RIP Specter. He served my state well. *salute*
wtf, I thought Obama was supposed to be gaining by now? Maybe Gallup is behind the trend?Gallup
RV 48-46 O (O-1)
LV 49-47 R (Same)
Approval 48-47 (Net -1)
There aren't any trackers showing Obama gaining (other than the largely dismissed rand which is largely dismissed by the likes of Nate Silver due to its odd sampling). Obama was down 1 in Rasmussen as well today.RIP Specter. He served my state well. *salute*
wtf, I thought Obama was supposed to be gaining by now? Maybe Gallup is behind the trend?
Bullshit.There aren't any trackers showing Obama gaining (other than the largely dismissed rand which is largely dismissed by the likes of Nate Silver due to its odd sampling). Obama was down 1 in Rasmussen as well today.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I see so much negativity about Florida recently...why?
And Virginia too. Isn't he still up there?
Florida is guaranteed Romney.
Obama really needs to get back to the tax inequality message. It's what really energized people after the DNC.
Florida is guaranteed Romney.
False.
Gallup is down, Rasmussen is down. Obama gained nada from the vp debate. The Romney bounce is holding steady across the board in the daily tracker polls.Bullshit.
(other than the largely dismissed rand which is largely dismissed by the likes of Nate Silver due to its odd sampling)
This just isn't true, and I'm not sure why you would say it, other than to support a narrative you're constructing.
Are you Wolf Blitzer?
Gallup is down, Rasmussen is down. Obama gained nada from the vp debate. The Romney bounce is holding steady across the board in the daily tracker polls.
You must be fun at parties.
It is indeed holding steady. Obama needs to work super hard to overcome that. Simply showing up at the next debate won't be enough.Gallup is down, Rasmussen is down. Obama gained nada from the vp debate. The Romney bounce is holding steady across the board in the daily tracker polls.
Hopefully it should be clear that there is a difference between the strategies that will convince undecided people to avoid joining an unpopular and shrinking religion they don't know much about and those that will convince people who already belong to an extensive and mainstream religion whose tenets they are mainly familiar with to agree with you on other topics that are essentially orthogonal to the question of faith altogether.
Here's the thing: there are three groups here. Group 1, people who are passably Christian and vaguely support Christianist policies. Group 2, people who are passably Christian and reject Christianist policies. Group 3, people who reject Christianity and also reject Christianist policies. What makes you think it would be easier to move people from group 1 to group 3, rather than just shifting them over to group 2?
(And let me say, if you just don't like religion and want to get rid of it for its own sake, that's fine -- although I obviously don't really agree, I understand where that's coming from. But trying to convert everybody away from Christianity in order to oppose evangelical reactionary policies is like trying to cut down a tree because you don't like one of its branches.)
I have no qualms with religious people who don't use their religion to impinge upon the lives of others or support a religion which does, but I also don't think that should preclude any discussion of religious absurdity. My interest is in moving people away from those two categories, by whatever means is effective. Let's not forget that the Mormon Church in an official capacity was largely responsible for the passage of Prop 8 in California in 2008 and its continuing support. I have no problem with people pointing out the many absurdities in that religion if it impedes those who support it and those who follow it and hope to gain higher office.
I should be peeking over there soon. Trying to not get myself banned before Election Night, and if there's one topic that'd do it, it's NintendoThe full quote isn't quite so damage control-ish.
p.s people have been asking about you in the Wii U thread..
(and those other companies)
And yeah, the quote loses its impact in the article.
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