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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.

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C

Clevinger

Member
Diablos said:
Sarcasm?
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Come on, have some, it's good:

wfKoa.gif
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Loudninja said:
Wow

This is from the Romney speech that he is going to give today.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...age-military-spending-syria-intervention?lite
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Bad News: People are pretty ignorant about foreign policy, especially in the middle east. This is good for Romney

Good News: People want us the fuck out of there and anything more engaging is bad for Romney.


BTW, no shit the attacks on the ambassador was Al Queda related. And I would bet more than anything it's a response to us killing Said al-Shihri earlier in the month. Kind of a big target there.

Just let Obama keep talking about not only how he killed OBL, but also more of their leadership than Bush has.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Latest stuff I can find is still 41% among independents. That is indeed pretty sharp in decline if it's staying there.

It's a bunch of crap, though. What do independent voters want? For Obama to go into Libya with Israel and start killing people?

For eff's sake so many people in this country are so ignorant and dumb.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
pigeon said:
Forget starting another war. It's incredible to me that anybody could even consider talking about Al-Qaeda in the same speech as suggesting we give arms and support to Islamic rebels in a constant battleground area for realpolitik reasons. Do they not look at the separate paragraphs next to one another? I mean, I'm not wrong, this is a terrible, terrible plan, right?
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At this point I really have no idea what Romney is doing.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
scorcho's morphine-induced rant: After the debate my mom decided she'd vote for Romney because he seemed 'very Presidential'. She follows the local news each night, works 35 hours a week and is ready to retire next year with her finances set. She's voted in the past for Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton and Obama. After hearing Romney's forceful defense of those with pre-existing conditions:

me: You know mom, he was lying on stage.
mom: Dave, stop it. He wouldn't get away with lying like that on TV.

Well, he did. Republicans should just go all out and push it to the limits. I don't even know what's taught in broadcast journalism these days. There's little disincentive for politicians or their spokespeople not to lie; the worst that seems to happen will be some eventual reference to a non-profit 'fact checking' group that, of course, will then be labeled a partisan actor and completely dismissed. Instead of serving as a check on the government, the media's now just worried about building and maintaining their connections to those in power.

Even watching this on PBS, the debate and some of the post-debate prattling talked glowingly about Romney's presence and command of the stage. She, meanwhile, walked away less informed about the candidates and their platforms than before. She also has no other incentive to research each candidate's views, and I'm not even sure she'll be interested in watching the remaining debates. For her, sadly, this first impressions meant a lot.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
50 pages into Mitt Romney's "No Apology", and while I'm starting to figure out where he's coming from much of the time, the cognitive dissonance in his reasoning is making my head hurt.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
scorcho said:
scorcho's morphine-induced rant: After the debate my mom decided she'd vote for Romney because he seemed 'very Presidential'. She follows the local news each night, works 35 hours a week and is ready to retire next year with her finances set. She's voted in the past for Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton and Obama. After hearing Romney's forceful defense of those with pre-existing conditions:

me: You know mom, he was lying on stage.
mom: Dave, stop it. He wouldn't get away with lying like that on TV.

Well, he did. Republicans should just go all out and push it to the limits. I don't even know what's taught in broadcast journalism these days. There's little disincentive for politicians or their spokespeople not to lie; the worst that seems to happen will be some eventual reference to a non-profit 'fact checking' group that, of course, will then be labeled a partisan actor and completely dismissed. Instead of serving as a check on the government, the media's now just worried about building and maintaining their connections to those in power.

Even watching this on PBS, the debate and some of the post-debate prattling talked glowingly about Romney's presence and command of the stage. She, meanwhile, walked away less informed about the candidates and their platforms than before. She also has no other incentive to research each candidate's views, and I'm not even sure she'll be interested in watching the remaining debates. For her, sadly, this first impressions meant a lot.
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That's one coherent, intelligent morphine rant, my friend. Oh, and I agree 100%.
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Hitokage said:
50 pages into Mitt Romney's "No Apology", and while I'm starting to figure out where he's coming from much of the time, the cognitive dissonance in his reasoning is making my head hurt.
Click to expand...

First he made you buy his book, now he makes you buy headache pills.
See how his stimulus plan for the economy works?
 
H

Half and half

Member
scorcho said:
me: You know mom, he was lying on stage.
mom: Dave, stop it. He wouldn't get away with lying like that on TV.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's unfortunate that this is the first time some people have gotten a good look at Romney. Do you think showing your mother this article would help?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...-fields-questions-on-pre-existing-conditions/

When pressed whether Romney would require states to include a pre-existing conditions stipulation in their legislation, Fehrnstrom answered: "We will give the state initiatives and money so that they can manage these decisions on their own. But, of course, we'd like them to see them continue that pre-existing band for those who have continuous coverage."
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Straight from the Romney camp.
 
T

thefro

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Gallup says their post debate polls show that the race is tied evenly (would represent a 5 point swing for Romney):

It went from 50-45 to 47-47

Yes I know, that 47% thing again for Romney...lol

Now to see whether the bounce for Romney fades in the coming days.
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I would suspect the same thing will happen to Romney that happened to Kerry against Bush where his bounce from the 1st debate had nearly completely faded by the time debate #2 happened. In this case, Romney seems to have gotten a lot less of a bounce than Kerry did.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Clevinger said:
That's one coherent, intelligent morphine rant, my friend. Oh, and I agree 100%.
Click to expand...

usually the rants become more inchoate as the day (and subsequent dosages) increase. i'm still in the morning glow, loosey goosey stage where i can still understand the additive property.

sometime before the election i'll stream the Frontline segments for her and run through their platforms real quick. i'm expecting her to give up watching halfway through out of boredom, and she'll retreat to the dining room to play some Sudoku on the iPad.

Sudoku on the iPad trumps making an informed choice about the President of the Greatest Nation on Earth. she's really an angel, though. Romney can go into the foreign policy debate and all but take credit for killing OBL and, if he can sell it, my mom would be impressed that he was able to do so.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
thefro said:
I would suspect the same thing will happen to Romney that happened to Kerry against Bush where his bounce from the 1st debate had nearly completely faded by the time debate #2 happened. In this case, Romney seems to have gotten a lot less of a bounce than Kerry did.
Click to expand...

In this case, the media is helping to make the effect more permanent. Watching CNN, everything about the obama campaign is still being framed in terms of bouncing back from the poor debate. Words like disastrous and "empty chair" are being continually tossed around in news segments.

That said, this gallup tidbit appears inconsistent with what ppp said yesterday about their battleground polls (where the bounce appears to be fading), so I guess we'll see.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
so will mitt romney having such a great performance in the first debate work against him in the 2nd? everybody will be expecting him to destroy obama the same way and if obama does much better he is likely to be seen as the winner by many just because he did better and romney couldn't blow him away again.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
smurfx said:
so will mitt romney having such a great performance in the first debate work against him in the 2nd? everybody will be expecting him to destroy obama the same way and if obama does much better he is likely to be seen as the winner by many just because he did better and romney couldn't blow him away again.
Click to expand...
Steve Schmitt did say debates are all about expectations.
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
Obama should show some fury and anger, that's what the public will fall for.

He should say, "Mr Romney, as the President of the United States, I have to inform the American public that you are a liar. You have said the opposite of every policy that is on your campaign platform, available on the internet for everyone to read. Your plan results in a 5 trillion dollar deficit, cuts medicare benefits for the older people, and lower taxes on the wealthy who do not need it. These are FACTS for everyone to see if they spend 5 minutes on the internet. What you will say here on stage is irrelevant, because you have a proven track record of flip-flopping and saying whatever will make you more popular at the time instead of sticking to your principles. I, as the president of the United States, have drawn a clear plan for America that involves strengthening the middle class and investing in clean energy, healthcare, and education by asking the wealthiest Americans to pay the same tax rates as they did in the Clinton administration, where we created 23 million jobs and a budget surplus. You, on the other hand have a plan that will destroy the middle class and weaken America by letting us fall behind on China and Europe in science and education. You champion this plan to your party's base while denying it when addressing the general public and undecided voters. This shows, at the very least, that you are not a trustworthy person and I have absolute faith in the American public that they would not see an untrustworthy person to be fit for the Office of the President of the United States.
 
E

Effect

Member
gkryhewy said:
In this case, the media is helping to make the effect more permanent. Watching CNN, everything about the obama campaign is still being framed in terms of bouncing back from the poor debate. Words like disastrous and "empty chair" are being continually tossed around in news segments.

That said, this gallup tidbit appears inconsistent with what ppp said yesterday about their battleground polls (where the bounce appears to be fading), so I guess we'll see.
Click to expand...

This is my most hated thing about the news media, especially cable media. The constant attempt to shape news instead actually reporting it. The only solace I guess is that not a lot of people watch cable news in comparison to network news and even read newspapers (print or digital). That isn't to say that it isn't attempted there but it's a LOT less infuriating I think. I really need to start focusing more on those outlets to be honest.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
no debate fanfic please :(

Obama can never show fury and anger on the podium. Drudge would enter 10x siren mode and the Fox News blondes would be on Red Alert.

Will we see lying, confident Mitt back on stage for the next debate, or will he tone it back and go back to articulating positions he's taken multiple sides on.

I wonder if Mittens and Ryan have a bet as to who can reel off the most confident lie in their respective debates.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
From the New York Times:

With Biden Up Next to Debate, Obama’s Aides Plot Comeback

WASHINGTON — President Obama’s campaign is working feverishly to restore its momentum after a lackluster debate performance last week, an effort that began with a conference call 10 minutes before the debate even ended and led to new advertisements, a rewritten stump speech, a carefully timed leak and a reversal of months-old strategy.


Perhaps most important as the president’s team struggles to put his campaign back on track is a renewed effort to win the three remaining debates, starting with Thursday’s face-off between Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Representative Paul D. Ryan. Mr. Biden began traveling to a Delaware hotel on Sunday for three days of debate camp.

Under the tutelage of David Axelrod, the president’s chief strategist who is personally overseeing the preparations, Mr. Biden will be counseled on how to avoid Mr. Obama’s mistakes and even correct them with a more aggressive prosecution of the Republican ticket. Mr. Axelrod’s involvement highlights the stakes the Obama campaign places on the debate, and Mr. Biden has been reading “Young Guns,” the book co-written by Mr. Ryan, and practicing attack lines that Mr. Obama avoided.

The focus on Mr. Biden comes as the campaign tries to diagnose what went wrong in Denver and what to do about it. Advisers had seen two presidents during practice debates, one who had been listless and passive two nights before and another energetic and aggressive the next night. It turned out the former was the one who showed up in Denver. He kept looking down and was not using the lines they had practiced assailing Mitt Romney, who kept the president on the defensive and presented a forceful case against his re-election.

For Mr. Obama, it was arguably the lowest point in his campaign for a second term. The campaign’s own focus groups and research indicated that he lost. Mr. Obama did not fully realize as he walked off the stage just how badly it had gone, but aides said he resolved to step up his game. “He doesn’t brood — he acts,” Mr. Axelrod said. “Whatever the concerns were about yesterday, he wakes up the next day ready to take it on again.”

On the conference call convened by aides in Denver and Chicago even as the candidates were still on stage, there was no debate in the Obama campaign about the debate. None of the advisers fooled themselves into thinking it was anything but a disaster. Instead, they scrambled for ways to recover. They resolved to go after Mr. Romney with a post-debate assault on his truthfulness. Ad makers were ordered to work all night to produce an attack ad. And they would seize on Mr. Romney’s vow to cut financing for Big Bird.

Mr. Obama has been helped by two subsequent events. A labor report on Friday showed that unemployment had dropped to 7.8 percent from 8.1 percent, still historically high but back down to where it was when he took office. And his campaign privately spread the word that fund-raising had soared, giving him a bankroll for a comeback attempt.

But the debate remains a singular event in the life of the campaign, watched by more than 67 million people — a larger audience than for any of Mr. Obama’s 2008 debates, either of his nominating conventions or any of his State of the Union addresses.

Thursday’s debate between Mr. Biden and Mr. Ryan may not draw quite the same audience, but both sides view it as critical and are preparing for a contentious clash. “With Paul Ryan, it’s a different dynamic” than when he debated Sarah Palin in 2008, said Jennifer Granholm, a former Michigan governor who played Ms. Palin in debate practice then. The vice president “can go hard on policy.”

In rehearsals, Representative Chris Van Hollen, a Maryland Democrat who is playing Mr. Ryan, has mimicked what he considered the Republican’s staccato speaking style and penchant for slashing arguments wrapped in a smile. “I expect the vice president to come at me like a cannonball,” Mr. Ryan told The Weekly Standard.

Mr. Biden’s advisers view Mr. Ryan as a walking encyclopedia of numbers and policy and hope he might get lost in the weeds. “The key is to be able to cut through the numbers that often don’t make sense,” said Mr. Van Hollen. Also crucial is helping Mr. Biden tame his own loquacious nature and proclivity for gaffes.

The Obama-Biden team approached the debate knowing the perils. History showed that incumbents tended to lose their first debate, both because of their own confidence and the chance for a challenger to appear as an equal to a sitting president.

Like other presidents, Mr. Obama’s debate preparations were hindered by his day job, his practice sessions often canceled or truncated because of events, advisers said. One session took place just after he addressed a service for the four Americans slain in Libya, leaving him distracted.

Mr. Obama does not like debates to begin with, aides have long said, viewing them as media-driven gamesmanship. He did not do all that well in 2008 but benefited from Senator John McCain’s grumpy performances. Mr. Obama made clear to advisers that he was not happy about debating Mr. Romney, whom he views with disdain. It was something to endure, rather than an opportunity, aides said.

Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts was recruited to play Mr. Romney. The preparation team was kept small. The most important players were Mr. Axelrod; David Plouffe, the president’s senior adviser; and Anita Dunn, a former White House communications director. Others included Joel Benenson, the president’s pollster; Ronald A. Klain, Mr. Biden’s former chief of staff; and Robert Barnett, a longtime Democratic debate coach.

By the time Mr. Obama retreated to Nevada for a final couple days of practice, the debate prep team was getting by on as little as three hours of sleep a night as they crafted answers and attack lines. Mr. Kerry played a range of Mr. Romneys — aggressive, laid back, hard-edge conservative — and got in the president’s face, according to people in the room. Mr. Obama’s alternating performances left aides walking off Air Force One in Denver looking worried.

On stage, Mr. Obama seemed thrown off as Mr. Romney emphasized elements of his agenda that seemed more moderate and was surprised that the moderator, Jim Lehrer of PBS, did not pose more pointed questions. The president’s team had decided in advance not to raise Mr. Romney’s tenure at Bain Capital, aides said, but Mr. Obama held back on other attack lines they had intended to use. The base wanted him “to gut Romney,” one adviser said, but swing voters hate that and he was seeking a balance. Few thought he found it.

Joining the damage-control conference call were Mr. Axelrod, Mr. Plouffe, Jim Messina, the campaign manager, and Stephanie Cutter, his deputy, in Denver; and Ms. Dunn, Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, and Larry Grisolano, a political adviser, in Chicago. In just minutes, they reversed a longstanding strategic decision; at the start of the campaign they had decided to attack Mr. Romney as a committed conservative rather than a flip-flopper, but now they decided to use his debate statements to argue that he was reinventing himself.

Mr. Obama walked off the stage thinking he at least had gotten in some of his points. “This was a terrific debate,” he said in the closing minutes.

“He knew that Romney had had a decent night as well,” Mr. Axelrod said later. “But it’s very hard when you’re standing there. It’s hard when you’re up there to judge it completely.”

Mr. Obama’s advisers were so off balance that they did not show up in the media filing center for the traditional post-debate spin until long after the Republicans. But they were relieved that at least there was no single memorable moment to be used against Mr. Obama in an ad. And they took some solace from focus groups showing that he broke even with Mr. Romney on substance even if he lost over all.

By morning, the Democrats had an ad criticizing Mr. Romney. They had scheduled a morning rally and were surprised that the Romney team had not. As they watched Twitter and some of the entertainment shows on television, they noticed a lot of attention on Mr. Romney’s pledge to cut money for public broadcasting, so they added a line to Mr. Obama’s speech and dispatched a volunteer in a Big Bird costume to a Romney event.

The president proved as aggressive in his post-debate rallies as he was passive in the debate, but the campaign was besieged by anxious Democrats. Mr. Messina had to pep up a demoralized staff in Chicago. Mr. Obama took the blame during calls with advisers. “This is on me,” he told them. Asked by some if Mr. Kerry was at fault, Mr. Obama said no. “It wasn’t Kerry,” he sad. “Kerry was fine.”

Beyond the vice-presidential debate, Mr. Obama is focused on his next encounter with Mr. Romney, on Oct. 16; lines unused in Denver may finally be aired in Long Island. But for a hypercompetitive politician, the first debate remains a raw subject. Asked if Mr. Obama was making fun of his performance, one adviser said, “We’re not at that point yet.”
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C

coldfoot

Banned
Sorry I just had to release my anger there...

Another thing about the debate that stuck with me. Romney said there are great hospitals in the country who know how to lower costs. So how is it a bad thing when Obama hires the same people who are doing great in the private sector to work for the government? It's the same people...He should have mentioned this.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
The NY Times also has an article about the SNL debate sketch, which showed that Jay Pharoah is a much better Obama than Fred Armisen.
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
Mr. Obama does not like debates to begin with, aides have long said, viewing them as media-driven gamesmanship.
Click to expand...
Someone should remind Mr. Obama that nobody likes everything they do at work and sometimes have to do shitty stuff, and even as President he should not feel entitled to do only the things he likes.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
coldfoot said:
Someone should remind Mr. Obama that nobody likes everything they do at work and sometimes have to do shitty stuff, and even as President he should not feel entitled to do only the things he likes.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure someone made that point to him. He was at the debate, right?

Of all the lines to retort you go after that?
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
coldfoot said:
Someone should remind Mr. Obama that nobody likes everything they do at work and sometimes have to do shitty stuff, and even as President he should not feel entitled to do only the things he likes.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could put together a story about exactly who should tell him that, in what way, and what the president's expression was after being told. ;)
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
Tim-E said:
From the New York Times:
Click to expand...

As expected, really.

Mr. Biden’s advisers view Mr. Ryan as a walking encyclopedia of numbers and policy and hope he might get lost in the weeds. “The key is to be able to cut through the numbers that often don’t make sense,” said Mr. Van Hollen. Also crucial is helping Mr. Biden tame his own loquacious nature and proclivity for gaffes.
Click to expand...

Biden isn't really a numbers guy, so this is unsettling. And yeah, there's always the gaffes...


Despite all the prep, the public and media is going to break it down to "Old Guy vs. Young Guy" for easy consumption.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
codhand said:
If only all morphine induced rants were so cogent, this world would be a better place.
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my first dose was at 5:00am. i meant to go back to rest.

i didn't. 0.5ml every 4 hours as needed. it's now 9:30am.

happy time! second dose upcoming. will also make coffee though i still want to rest before my scan appt. in the afternoon. oh, this life of luxury i lead :)
 
T

Tim-E

Member
scorcho said:
my first dose was at 5:00am. i meant to go back to rest.

i didn't. 0.5ml every 4 hours as needed. it's now 9:30am.

happy time! second dose upcoming. will also make coffee though i still want to rest before my scan appt. in the afternoon. oh, this life of luxury i lead :)
Click to expand...

Stay strong, brother!
 
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