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[speculawyer]

Done for the night but you all are amazing. Lots to learn and even though I might not agree with things I will always respect where you're coming from. In this short period of time, I've had my positions shifted. I look forward to future debates

Night!

You are a brave man to walk into PoliGAF and get challenged. And your views provide insight to others even when they disagree with them.

 

[Oblivion]

Still awake. Explain yourself.

Thought it was sorta obvious.

Lovingsteam was a conservative when he started reading poligaf and after arguing with us for a while, started accepting opposing arguments.

The fact that you're doing the same instead of doubling down makes you a bad person.

 

[The Chosen One]

Wow, PoliGAF exploded today. Do you guys work at all?

Anyway, Romney had the most resounding and decisive debate victory in modern history. If he didn't get a significant bump in the polls after that then the debates really are pointless.

Romney basically re-injected some enthusiasm back into the GOP base and got the attention of right-of-center moderates. But despite Obama's awful/listless debate performance, he didn't commit any major gaffes. He doesn't have to change his core message or back-track anything. The campaign doesn't need to be overhauled. He basically just needs to lay off the ambien and take a couple of uppers for the next debate.

Meanwhile, Romney even though he won the debate, he is having to completely restructure his campaign because he was so far behind. He's trying to turn into a moderate but it's doubtful he'll be able to make a convincing transformation because there's only 4 weeks left and his policy positions simply don't support it. And going by September, August, and July, Romney and his campaign are always on the verge of committing a major gaffe. So their discipline will be tested the next 30 days.

But I guess liberals are freaking out because this is Romney's first real bounce out of the entire presidential election cycle. Even when he picked Ryan he only got about a +1 bounce in the polls. Liberals have been spoiled so far.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Wow, PoliGAF exploded today. Do you guys work at all?

Anyway, Romney had the most resounding and decisive debate victory in modern history. If he didn't get a significant bump in the polls after that then the debates really are pointless.

Romney basically re-injected some enthusiasm back into the GOP base and got the attention of right-of-center moderates. But despite Obama's awful/listless debate performance, he didn't commit any major gaffes. He doesn't have to change his core message or back-track anything. The campaign doesn't need to be overhauled. He basically just needs to lay off the ambien and take a couple of uppers for the next debate.

Meanwhile, Romney even though he won the debate, he is having to completely restructure his campaign because he was so far behind. He's trying to turn into a moderate but it's doubtful he'll be able to make a convincing transformation because there's only 4 weeks left and his policy positions simply don't support it. And going by September, August, and July, Romney and his campaign are always on the verge of committing a major gaffe. So their discipline will be tested the next 30 days.

But I guess liberals are freaking out because this is Romney's first real bounce out of the entire presidential election cycle. Even when he picked Ryan he only got about a +1 bounce in the polls. Liberals have been spoiled so far.

Liberals aren't freaking out because Romney got a bounce. They're freaking out because he's spewing bullshit out like his campaign depends on it (which it does) and people are eating it up. Most people aren't willing to call Romney out on his BS and nobody listens to the people that will call him out.

 

[hawkshockey11]

I don't think it's humor. There have just been a lot of articles about Romney and that headline (47% apology)

Don't ruin it

 

[RiccochetJ]

Thought it was sorta obvious.

Lovingsteam was a conservative when he started reading poligaf and after arguing with us for a while, started accepting opposing arguments.

The fact that you're doing the same instead of doubling down makes you a bad person.

What's the point? If you have an argument that I can't refute, should I fight my way to a ban even though I know I'm wrong?

It's easier to accept the fact that I'm wrong. Humbling to be sure, but that's the whole point why I love this place. I learn and grow.

To be fair, nothing I've heard so far has convinced me that my position should be wholly shifted.

 

[AniHawk]

What's the point? If you have an argument that I can't refute, should I fight my way to a ban even though I know I'm wrong?

that describes many fallen warriors here, yes.

 

[ErasureAcer]

It's a disgusting comment. I'm not defending Romney's bullshit, but your comment is below the pale

but whatever. few more weeks

Your name is PhoenixDark so your opinion doesn't matter.

 

[Forever]

that describes many fallen warriors here, yes.

They are the Rorschachs of the thread.

Too stubborn to live.

 

[RiccochetJ]

that describes many fallen warriors here, yes.

I'd rather take the lumps. Painful and humbling. Live to argue another day

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Another thing the Debate has allowed Romney to do is take up positions that conservatives would have hated 2 weeks back, but since he blew Obama out of the water and made them orgasm, they don't care that he doesn't want new anti-abortion laws anymore.

Obama's horrible debate performance has consequences beyond just the movement in polls.

 

[786110]

Another thing the Debate has allowed Romney to do is take up positions that conservatives would have hated 2 weeks back, but since he blew Obama out of the water and made them orgasm, they don't care that he doesn't want new anti-abortion laws anymore.

Romney spokesperson Andrea Saul clarified, “Governor Romney would of course support legislation aimed at providing greater protections for life.”

Though by this point in the juncture it seems that every moderate position he takes is later nullified by his campaign, just look to the DREAM act last week.

And if/when he loses the conservative sect will claim it was because of this moderate streak, not because of any substantive cocktail of reasons or occurrences.

 

[speculawyer]

What's the point? If you have an argument that I can't refute, should I fight my way to a ban even though I know I'm wrong?

It's easier to accept the fact that I'm wrong. Humbling to be sure, but that's the whole point why I love this place. I learn and grow.

This is a very good attitude to have.

 

[AniHawk]

Another thing the Debate has allowed Romney to do is take up positions that conservatives would have hated 2 weeks back, but since he blew Obama out of the water and made them orgasm, they don't care that he doesn't want new anti-abortion laws anymore.

Obama's horrible debate performance has consequences beyond just the movement in polls.

another thing the debate had was when i turned on cnn yesterday they were talking about the shift in poll numbers. and this is in california!!!

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Romney spokesperson Andrea Saul clarified, “Governor Romney would of course support legislation aimed at providing greater protections for life.”

Though by this point in the juncture it seems that every moderate position he takes is later nullified by his campaign, just look to the DREAM act last week.

And if/when he loses the conservative sect will claim it was because of this moderate streak, not because of any substantive cocktail of reasons or occurrences.

Lol. I always love this. It's obvious they're basically going for the "small text on contracts/advertisements" effect. Advertise X then say "well we did say Y if you would've been paying attention..."

 

[NihonTiger90]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...220-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_story.html?hpid=z4

YES. Reverse that bullshit that was pulled with the constitutional amendment vote in '04.

52-37 in Ohio is a monstrous gap when you think that almost anywhere outside of Toledo, Cleveland/Akron/Youngstown, Dayton, Columbus and parts of the Appalachian counties are blood red. I didn't mention Cincy because that's still the GOP stronghold in the state, as are places like Lima (Tea Party central and a big part of Jim Jordan's power base) and Canton (old rich white people central).

 

[The Chosen One]

Say it isn't so...

Stacy Dash endorses Romney
http://www.eonline.com/news/352491/...m_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

So this is what it sounds like when doves cry... Why does my childhood fantasy have to do this to me? I might have to give Mitt another look now... her endorsement carries more weight with me than his debate performance.

 

[Zzoram]

What's the point? If you have an argument that I can't refute, should I fight my way to a ban even though I know I'm wrong?

It's easier to accept the fact that I'm wrong. Humbling to be sure, but that's the whole point why I love this place. I learn and grow.

To be fair, nothing I've heard so far has convinced me that my position should be wholly shifted.

The fact that you are open-minded at all is a wonderful thing IMO.



New topic guys:

Election trutherism article from Slate brings up a good point. If Republicans think all the polls are skewed towards Obama and that Obama is manipulating labor statistics, they would likely think Obama rigged the election if he wins in a squeeker. The consequences of that are unclear but I'm sure that it won't lead to more cooperation between the two parties.

 

[Cheebo]

Don't let Diablos find a video of Nate Silver on Rachel Maddow last night. He said this is a time of trepidation for Democrats and if the next round of polling is as bad for Obama as the last few days have been his model will have the race tied.

 

[AniHawk]

Don't let Diablos find a video of Nate Silver on Rachel Maddow last night. He said this is a time of trepidation for Democrats and if the next round of polling is as bad for Obama as the last few days have been his model will have the race tied.

so the fate of the election rests on the shoulders of joe biden.

 

[scorcho]

Are Nate's trends making anyone else nervous as fuck?

So right now that about a 56 electoral vote difference, meaning Romney has to turn 28 from Obama. Colorado, Virginia and Nevada or Iowa total 28. Wouldn't even need Ohio.

WTF? Stacy Dash? How the fuck could you do that to me? to US?

 

[Patriots7]

Don't let Diablos find a video of Nate Silver on Rachel Maddow last night. He said this is a time of trepidation for Democrats and if the next round of polling is as bad for Obama as the last few days have been his model will have the race tied.

That's not possible. I've been told numerous times in this thread that there is no way for the race to be tied.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

That's not possible. I've been told numerous times in this thread that there is no way for the race to be tied.

It would take two drops of historical proportions. The likelihood of that... there's a reason Obama was favored to win 80-90%. He's now down to ~70% after one historically bad outing. If you think he has another historically bad outing, you got another thing coming. There's also a line that Obama can't get under just due to the demographic of his followers and supporters. We're approaching that line right now. It'd take him pretty much killing someone for him to drop the same amount as he already had.

 

[gkryhewy]

Don't let Diablos find a video of Nate Silver on Rachel Maddow last night. He said this is a time of trepidation for Democrats and if the next round of polling is as bad for Obama as the last few days have been his model will have the race tied.

That's not what he said.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

That's not what he said.

What did he say?

 

[norinrad]

What did he say?

I think he's busy typing

 

[gkryhewy]

What did he say?

I forget what the trigger was (it wasn't the next round of polling), but he said that the race really would be a tossup (qualitative), not that his model would show it tied (quantitative).

 

[Dabanton]

Are people that mad at Dash? She probably saw an opportunity to be a female conservative black TV personalty and took that chance. I mean she's attractive. And has just over the weekend picked up lots of new fans. Fox news and their ilk will give her plenty of airtime.

Wanna bet she's in the process of writing a book or looking for funding for a film project. I'm sure her new friends will be happy to pick up the tab.

 

[Patriots7]

It would take two drops of historical proportions. The likelihood of that... there's a reason Obama was favored to win 80-90%. He's now down to ~70% after one historically bad outing. If you think he has another historically bad outing, you got another thing coming. There's also a line that Obama can't get under just do to the demographic of his followers and supporters. We're approaching that line right now. It'd take him pretty much killing someone for him to drop the same amount as he already had.

Obama was beaten by the largest margin historically and the polls reflect that. Why should I have any faith that like his predecessors he will show up to the next debates? Mittens handidly outclassed Obama in the debate. He didn't just do poorly, he failed to even compete. This thread continually downplays any and everything that could shift the race even further towards Romney. Even before the first debate, someone went as far as to say that Obama would beat Romney so bad he'd cross the street every time he saw a black person. And look at how that played out.

Mitt has at least showed that he wants to be POTUS. Obama has been so complacent that I wouldn't count a huge shock come election night.

 

[Zzoram]

Are people that mad at Dash? She probably saw an opportunity to be a female conservative black TV personalty and took that chance. I mean she's attractive. And has just over the weekend picked up lots of new fans. Fox news and their ilk will give her plenty of airtime.

Wanna bet she's in the process of writing a book or looking for funding for a film project. I'm sure her new friends will be happy to pick up the tab.

She could probably even get a job as a Fox News anchor now. Really great marketing ploy. She can even secretly vote for Obama anyways lol.

 

[RoninChaos]

When was te last time Stacey dash was relevant? 95?

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Obama was beaten by the largest margin historically and the polls reflect that. Why should I have any faith that like his predecessors he will show up to the next debates? Mittens handidly outclassed Obama in the debate. He didn't just do poorly, he failed to even compete. This thread continually downplays any and everything that could shift the race even further towards Romney. Even before the first debate, someone went as far as to say that Obama would beat Romney so bad he'd cross the street every time he saw a black person. And look at how that played out.

Mitt has at least showed that he wants to be POTUS. Obama has been so complacent that I wouldn't count a huge shock come election night.

First off, a LOT of members here have said this is one of the worst performances of all time, statistically. Second, if you don't think Obama has some adjustments, you might want to rethink your beliefs. Obama's weakness in the first debate was that he wasn't ready. Romney's weakness was that he was lying everytime he opened his mouth. Guess which one of those is more exploitable.

 

[scorcho]

When was te last time Stacey dash was relevant? 95?

So long I have a mere arm to give for his country, I would do so in service to Stacey Dash. Oh, would I.

--

In all seriousness, the hyperbole around PoliGAF about the last debate shows you're all just prisoners of the moment. There's little precedence to indicate how a single debate will swing an entire election to the other candidate's side, especially with several more to go. Romney was able to be a charlatan for one night with a debate-rusty Obama. In the same way Obama-the-candidate honed his skills over a tough primary schedule, Romney finely honed his ability to lie through a shit-eating grin. Instead of the Romney-Perry Redux I hoped for, Romney learned from those errors and polished the literal condescending shit out of his mouth into Reagan-esque shit instead.

And no, it won't win him the election. It's tightening up, but most elections seem to as we come closer to election day...

 

[Zzoram]

When was te last time Stacey dash was relevant? 95?

She just made herself relevant again. Great PR move.

 

[Dude Abides]

Are people that mad at Dash? She probably saw an opportunity to be a female conservative black TV personalty and took that chance. I mean she's attractive. And has just over the weekend picked up lots of new fans. Fox news and their ilk will give her plenty of airtime.

Wanna bet she's in the process of writing a book or looking for funding for a film project. I'm sure her new friends will be happy to pick up the tab.

2016 meets Clueless. I'm in!

 

[DEO3]

Obama's ground game showed up to my house last week and got me signed up to vote by mail, and also got my wife, who just so happened to have become an American citizen the day before, both registered and signed up to vote by mail. We got our ballots yesterday and have already mailed them off. Really impressive stuff.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Obama's ground game showed up to my house last week and got me signed up to vote by mail, and also got my wife, who just so happened to have become an American citizen the day before, both registered and signed up to vote by mail. We got our ballots yesterday and have already mailed them off. Really impressive stuff.

Ugh wish they'd show up here. I have to drive 45 minutes to go vote because I didn't have time to change my voting precinct until close to the deadline. Didn't want to risk not being able to vote (even though my state is 100% going to go for Romney).

 

[Zzoram]

Ugh wish they'd show up here. I have to drive 45 minutes to go vote because I didn't have time to change my voting precinct until close to the deadline. Didn't want to risk not being able to vote (even though my state is 100% going to go for Romney).

Your vote still matters. Even if your state goes to Romney, if it's even close it could encourage more Dems to vote next time because they will see that there is a chance.

 

[Cheebo]

I forget what the trigger was (it wasn't the next round of polling), but he said that the race really would be a tossup (qualitative), not that his model would show it tied (quantitative).

A tossup and a tie are pretty close to the same thing. Nate Silver came across as very down on Obama's chances, surprisingly so for him.

 

[Loudninja]

Gibbs: Obama Will Bring ‘Different Game’ To Next Debate

"This president's going to bring a much different game to this debate," Gibbs said, referring to the Oct. 16 presidential debate. "I guarantee you you'll see an energetic, enthusiastic president in that next debate."

Gibbs also asked supporters to get involved.

"I would tell them to take whatever nervous energy they have and whatever hand-wringing they will do over the next 24 to 48 hours and put that into a real effort to get this president re-elected," Gibbs said, referring to Obama supporters. "Get out there and register somebody to vote. Go to a phone bank. Make sure you tell your friends what's at sake in this race… Let's go out there and stop hand wringing and get to work."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/gibbs-obama-will-bring-different-game-to-next

 

[Amir0x]

So long I have a mere arm to give for his country, I would do so in service to Stacey Dash. Oh, would I.

--

In all seriousness, the hyperbole around PoliGAF about the last debate shows you're all just prisoners of the moment. There's little precedence to indicate how a single debate will swing an entire election to the other candidate's side, especially with several more to go. Romney was able to be a charlatan for one night with a debate-rusty Obama. In the same way Obama-the-candidate honed his skills over a tough primary schedule, Romney finely honed his ability to lie through a shit-eating grin. Instead of the Romney-Perry Redux I hoped for, Romney learned from those errors and polished the literal condescending shit out of his mouth into Reagan-esque shit instead.

And no, it won't win him the election. It's tightening up, but most elections seem to as we come closer to election day...

yup. I think Chuck Todd (groan) said this morning that the positives for Obama is that his numbers showing stalling, not sliding, and Romney is just gaining back Republican leaning "Independents" and getting a shot of enthusiasm, instead of Obama losing his own support. Meaning the fundamentals of the race have not changed in any fashion that can't be turned around with one good news cycle.

Obama pre-debate had some enthusiasm issues and the debate clearly made it a little worse, he said, but he seemed particularly grim still on Romney's prospect because 'Ohio polling has not shown significant shifting since the debate, Obama is still over 50 there, and unless he can grab that state and somehow get Wisconsin and Iowa, he's not going to win. And I can't see how he grabs Iowa or Wisconsin, but certainly not both if he loses Ohio."




A word of note: Democrats need to learn to fucking COMPOSE themselves. Calm the fuck down Dems. Jesus. You guys made Obama's bad news cycle infinitely worse; he lost a single debate of three, after winning every news cycle since June. Yes he lost the debate, but there were no sweeping lines to take and the jobs report mitigated some of the impact all on its own. It was not a loss that could not have been overcome in a blink. But no doubt, Democrats extended the bleeding. MAN UP, GUYS, THIS IS POLITICS.

Gibbs: Obama Will Bring ‘Different Game’ To Next Debate

"I guarantee you you'll see an energetic, enthusiastic president in that next debate."

Obama to be injected with methamphetamine before the debate confirmed?

 

[Slime]

So now even Nate is doubting Obama?

Ahh, damn it, sorry. I have to join the panic club after all.

 

[Loudninja]

So now even Nate is doubting Obama?

Ahh, damn it, sorry. I have to join the panic club after all.

Ah he is not.

yup. I think Chuck Todd (groan) said this morning that the positives for Obama is that his numbers showing stalling, not sliding, and Romney is just gaining back Republican leaning "Independents" and getting a shot of enthusiasm, instead of Obama losing his own support. Meaning the fundamentals of the race have not changed in any fashion that can't be turned around with one good news cycle.

Obama pre-debate had some enthusiasm issues and the debate clearly made it a little worse, he said, but he seemed particularly grim still on Romney's prospect because 'Ohio polling has not shown significant shifting since the debate, Obama is still over 50 there, and unless he can grab that state and somehow get Wisconsin and Iowa, he's not going to win. And I can't see how he grabs Iowa or Wisconsin, but certainly not both if he loses Ohio."




A word of note: Democrats need to learn to fucking COMPOSE themselves. Calm the fuck down Dems. Jesus. You guys made Obama's bad news cycle infinitely worse; he lost a single debate of three, after winning every news cycle since June. Yes he lost the debate, but there were no sweeping lines to take and the jobs report mitigated some of the impact all on its own. It was not a loss that could not have been overcome in a blink. But no doubt, Democrats extended the bleeding. MAN UP, GUYS, THIS IS POLITICS.

Great post completely agree.

 

[codhand]

Polls! I need more polls! Hook them into my veins!

 

[Amir0x]

NBC polls out tomorrow, so, that should be interesting

 

[SpeedySwaf]

NBC polls out tomorrow, so, that should be interesting

What time period does it cover?

 

[Amir0x]

I'm not sure the exact time frame, but I'm pretty sure Chuck said all post debate

 

[Cheebo]

So now even Nate is doubting Obama?

Ahh, damn it, sorry. I have to join the panic club after all.

He is just saying if Obama has another round of polls as bad as they were yesterday his model will have the race as a tossup.

 

[Y2Kev]

I wish that just for once we could not eat our own. I kinda like that we do but not when the stakes are high.

 

[Amir0x]

Yea it's not like Democrats have to refrain from criticizing Obama, but the all out bridge on fire, death to all dreams, sky falling stuff is just counterproductive and makes the situation very much worse.

In other words, you can react insane like Andrew Sullivan or cartoon soldier, or you can moderate your disappointment like Chris Hayes and, say, The Chosen One.

And usually the moderate response is the one in proportion to reality.