• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
Black Mamba said:
Posted this numerous time before:

QBSW1M7.jpg
Click to expand...

Know what I take from this table?

That we have been in a lot of wars. What the fuck is wrong with us. :(
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
ICKE said:
Cambodia happened, because of insane control freaks who called themselves communists. The same reason why I lost relatives in Russia, why my friends had to report every action to Stasi scum and so on.

You can blame western influence for many things, like what happened in Russia during the years of Yeltsin, but carpet bombing and all the other atrocities in Vietnam were just an excuse for KRouge to present themselves as a peaceful entity. No good guys at the time, just a bunch of murderous and self-righteous groups fighting for power without any consideration towards normal citizens.
Click to expand...

The entire reason anybody even supported the Khmers was because the Vietnam war spilling over Cambodia combined with the United States overthrowing Cambodia's king and and replacing him with a puppet government made the country insane enough to support the Khmer Rouge. If the U.S. never got involved it would have never have happened. Cambodia's situation was pure blowback, and one hell of one too.

empty vessel said:
Ho Chi Minh had nothing to do with the US invasion of South Vietnam. Vietnam was controlled by the West before Ho Chi Minh ever existed, and control over Vietnam is exactly why the US started a war there.
Click to expand...

I was referring to after he took control. How many people he killed and how oppressive his regime was.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
More relevant to the IRS "scandal" is that as soon as the higher-ups heard about the policy they said they couldn't do it any more, and as soon as it became public they issued an apology and disavowal of the actions. So it's not like it's government policy.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
pigeon said:
More relevant to the IRS "scandal" is that as soon as the higher-ups heard about the policy they said they couldn't do it any more, and as soon as it became public they issued an apology and disavowal of the actions. So it's not like it's government policy.
Click to expand...

Actually they knew about it in 2011 and it continued through 2012. And they lied about it several times, including several denials and misleading statements that have been proven false. Apparently no one was fired. No one stepped down. They were targeting political groups based on political positions. That is a Nixon-esque tactic and a violation of the first amendment. I am enjoying watching some of you make excuses for it though. Somehow I don't think the feeling would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
Actually they knew about it in 2011 and it continued through 2012. And they lied about it several times, including several denials and misleading statements that have been proven false. Apparently no one was fired. No one stepped down. They were targeting political groups based on political positions. That is a Nixon-esque tactic and a violation of the first amendment. I am enjoying watching some of you make excuses for it though. Somehow I don't think the feeling would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot.
Click to expand...

If the shoe were on the other foot we'd probably post links to sources.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
pigeon said:
If the shoe were on the other foot we'd probably post links to sources.
Click to expand...

I don't need to link you to easily acquired information. Look it up yourself. The details are not secret and they are on the front page of several popular news sites. If you think I am misinformed go ahead and disprove what I said. I think you will find it difficult. I didn't see the person who I quoted talking about how "hire ups" put a stop to this as soon as they heard about it post links. But you didn't have a problem with that since it supported the view you prefer.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
I don't need to link you to easily acquired information. Look it up yourself.
Click to expand...

You're a bad poster. Don't post any more.

UnlimitedRx said:
I didn't see the person who I quoted talking about how "hire ups" put a stop to this as soon as they heard about it post links. But you didn't have a problem with that since it supported the view you prefer.
Click to expand...

All you had to do was ask!

nyt said:
Lerner said the practice was initiated by low-level workers in Cincinnati and was not motivated by political bias. Agency officials found out about the practice last year and moved to correct it, the IRS said in a statement. The statement did not specify when officials found out.
...
Lerner said the number of groups filing for this tax-exempt status more than doubled from 2010 to 2012, to more than 3,400. To handle the influx, the IRS centralized its review of these applications in an office in Cincinnati.

Lerner said this was done to develop expertise among staffers and consistency in their reviews. As part of the review, staffers look for signs that groups are participating in political activity. If so, IRS agents take a closer look to make sure that politics isn't the group's primary activity.

As part of this process, agents in Cincinnati came up with a list of things to look for in an application. As part of the list, they included the words, "tea party" and "patriot," Lerner said.

"It's the line people that did it without talking to managers," Lerner told The AP. "They're IRS workers, they're revenue agents."
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...l?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-thecaucus&_r=1&
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...agents-tea-party-targeting-in-2011/?hpt=po_c1

There. I did your work for you. Maybe instead of having a chuckle at various reactions to this, dumb though they may be, you could actually educate yourself on what really is happening. Maybe do that instead of blindly jumping to the defense just in case some blame could splatter onto a politician you like.
Click to expand...

So what is the outrage here? I'm trying to see what the administration actually did that has you on a rampage.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
zero shift said:
I was referring to after he took control. How many people he killed and how oppressive his regime was.
Click to expand...

But what does that matter to anything? Ho Chi Minh did not have anything to do with why the US was in South Vietnam, which was to prevent South Vietnamese independence from Western imperial rule.

Tamanon said:
So what is the outrage here? I'm trying to see what the administration actually did that has you on a rampage.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I see the problem, either.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html

PPP's newest national poll finds that Republicans aren't getting much traction with their focus on Benghazi over the last week. Voters trust Hillary Clinton over Congressional Republicans on the issue of Benghazi by a 49/39 margin and Clinton's +8 net favorability rating at 52/44 is identical to what it was on our last national poll in late March. Meanwhile Congressional Republicans remain very unpopular with a 36/57 favorability rating.

Voters think Congress should be more focused on other major issues right now rather than Benghazi. By a 56/38 margin they say passing a comprehensive immigration reform bill is more important than continuing to focus on Benghazi, and by a 52/43 spread they think passing a bill requiring background checks for all gun sales should be a higher priority.

While voters overall may think Congress' focus should be elsewhere there's no doubt about how mad Republicans are about Benghazi. 41% say they consider this to be the biggest political scandal in American history to only 43% who disagree with that sentiment. Only 10% of Democrats and 20% of independents share that feeling. Republicans think by a 74/19 margin than Benghazi is a worse political scandal than Watergate, by a 74/12 margin that it's worse than Teapot Dome, and by a 70/20 margin that it's worse than Iran Contra.

One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess.

At any rate what we're finding about last week's Benghazi focus so far is that Republicans couldn't be much madder about it, voters overall think Congress should be focused on other key issues, and Hillary Clinton's poll numbers aren't declining on account of it.
Click to expand...
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
Tamanon said:
So what is the outrage here? I'm trying to see what the administration actually did that has you on a rampage.
Click to expand...

So you don't have a problem with the IRS targeting groups with additional scrutiny with whom the administration in power disagrees? Really. Have you ever dealt with the IRS? It amounts to intimidation and a violation of free speech. The IRS is not to be choosing who it targets based on preceived political leanings.

And I didn't mention the administration outside the IRS. I have not blamed the president. There is no evidence he did anything. Of course it is funny how every time something gets messed up in his government, he says "I found out in the same news reports you did". I would like my president to be better informed. But that is neither here nor there. The US government is a massive leviathan and I realize he can't know what happens in every aspect of it. However, I would feel better if he had been informed about his IRS profiling back when they discovered it instead of on the news like a common nobody.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...agents-tea-party-targeting-in-2011/?hpt=po_c1

There. I did your work for you.
Click to expand...

No, actually, when you post a statement, supporting it is YOUR job, not mine. That way we can read your support and point out when you make claims that your source doesn't make. For example, this article doesn't say that there were any inappropriate reviews in 2012, only that there were still reviews. Guess what -- it's still part of the IRS's job to review organization claiming tax-exempt status!

Here's what the IRS actually did, according to your very own source:

cnn said:
The timeline prepared by the inspector general and obtained by CNN redacts events before March 2010 as well as several between then and July 15, 2012, when the timeline concludes. But between the omitted content is a series of events showing what was happening inside the agency.

Initially, unidentified managers from the Determinations Unit of the IRS searched for "applications involving political sounding names (such as ) 'We the People' or 'Take Back the Country.'" In mid-March 2010, the agency identified 10 tea party-related cases, and by April 5, there was a list of 18, though "three had already been approved as tax exempt," the report read.

In late April and May, specialists from the Technical Unit were involved, and on June 7, the "Determinations Unit began training its specialists on emerging issues to watch for, including an emerging issue referred to as Tea Party Cases."

That summer, an e-mail and a "be on the lookout" note were sent to employees that included a "coordinator contact for the cases."

Over the next year, some responsibilities shifted and new staff joined the effort.

The timeline suggests the first hesitation within the agency regarding the process came in June 2011, when "the acting director, Rulings and Agreements, commented that the criteria being used to identify tea party cases may have resulted in over-inclusion." But part of that entry, as well as the preceding one, are redacted from the timeline.

Later that month the director of exempt organizations was briefed on the efforts, and the criteria for evaluating applications were adjusted, one of several times the criteria would be tweaked. A guide sheet for handling applications was developed, and in September, "A Technical Unit specialist reviewed the list (of applications) to determine if any cases could be closed on merit or closed with an adverse determination letter," meaning the application would be accepted or denied.

The timeline continues to show incremental changes to the criteria, additional reviews and the involvement of counsel after the entry labeled "February-March 2012."
Click to expand...

In other words, the R&A acting director noticed the problem and began looking into it. Later that month they went to the director of exempt organizations and changed the rules and created an SOP. This all happened in June 2011, the same month Rulings and Agreements took notice. In September they appointed a specialist to review all the applications thus far because of the problem. Then they continued to look into it and make sure they were handling it correctly for the next year or so, including hiring lawyers, which is a pretty sensible move given the circumstances.

Your source agrees with me, not you.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
UnlimitedRx said:
So you don't have a problem with the IRS targeting groups with additional scrutiny with whom the administration in power disagrees? Really. Have you ever dealt with the IRS? It amounts to intimidation and a violation of free speech. The IRS is not to be choosing who it targets based on preceived political leanings.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that that's what it was doing.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Speaking of Benghazi, on a totally unrelated note to the US and Republican Crusade, there was a bombing at a hospital there today.

Chances that Republican's try to link it to our Former Terrorist of State Killary?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
Haha. You are more worried about looking up a literally isolated case from 7 years ago instead of looking at what is currently happening. Yes, that incident was messed up. Shouldn't have happened. But this went on literally for years. They denied it and mischaracterised it. They tried to downplay it as recently as Friday. The IRS messed up. Badly.
Click to expand...
Since 2004, the IRS has investigated more than 200 organizations nationwide.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of these were other liberal churches.

I bet someone might have investigated further if the Bush administration didn't have a whole other heaping pile of shit worth investigating.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
So you don't have a problem with the IRS targeting groups with additional scrutiny with whom the administration in power disagrees? Really. Have you ever dealt with the IRS? It amounts to intimidation and a violation of free speech. The IRS is not to be choosing who it targets based on preceived political leanings.

And I didn't mention the administration outside the IRS. I have not blamed the president. There is no evidence he did anything. Of course it is funny how every time something gets messed up in his government, he says "I found out in the same news reports you did". I would like my president to be better informed. But that is neither here nor there. The US government is a massive leviathan and I realize he can't know what happens in every aspect of it. However, I would feel better if he had been informed about his IRS profiling back when they discovered it instead of on the news like a common nobody.
Click to expand...

But, the IRS should be targeting political groups in general who file as charities. To me, the whole Tea Party angle is political in nature.
 
P

phaze

Member
empty vessel said:
Ho Chi Minh had nothing to do with the US invasion of South Vietnam. Vietnam was controlled by the West before Ho Chi Minh ever existed, and control over Vietnam is exactly why the US started a war there.
Click to expand...

My military history is a bit rusty. When did that invasion take place ?
 
Jackben

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Avon Barksdale said:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html
Click to expand...
One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess.
Click to expand...
I am just absolutely shocked here.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
Hell. Even the President said this is an outrage. Some of you are just so politically blind that as long as the people getting screwed are people you don't like, it doesn't matter how it happens.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
Hell. Even the President said this is an outrage. Some of you are just so politically blind that as long as the people getting screwed are people you don't like, it doesn't matter how it happens.
Click to expand...

It is an outrage. That's why they immediately stopped it and investigated it. That's called good governance. You should be applauding the higher-ups at the IRS for standing up for your freedom.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
UnlimitedRx said:
Hell. Even the President said this is an outrage. Some of you are just so politically blind that as long as the people getting screwed are people you don't like, it doesn't matter how it happens.
Click to expand...
More like you're only getting outraged that your groups are affected. The rest of us acknowledge that a problem is being dealt with.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
pigeon said:
It is an outrage. That's why they immediately stopped it and investigated it. That's called good governance. You should be applauding the higher-ups at the IRS for standing up for your freedom.
Click to expand...

See this happened a few YEARS ago. It was known within the organization years ago. It was denied in 2012 when it started in 2011.
 
Jackben

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
UnlimitedRx said:
See this happened a few YEARS ago. It was known within the organization years ago. It was denied in 2012 when it started in 2011.
Click to expand...
Obama himself indeed acknowledged the findings alongside head of departments at the IRS as an outrage and something that is concurrently being investigated.

So what exactly is the issue with the government body responsible acknowledging wrongdoing and the President himself stating that it was wrong and is being investigated? Why is it that every issue is always some kind of conspiracy cover-up operation? Does it matter more that the IRS was selecting certain groups for additional scrutiny or that the groups in question were ones which you support?
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
UnlimitedRx said:
See this happened a few YEARS ago. It was known within the organization years ago. It was denied in 2012 when it started in 2011.
Click to expand...

But note that pigeon's link has the IRS also taking steps to stop doing it in 2011. So is the only issue here that you weren't told about this quickly enough? Does that make it almost as bad as Benghazi? Or is it worse because they didn't go public for more than a year?
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
Hitokage said:
More like you're only getting outraged that your groups are affected. The rest of us acknowledge that a problem is being dealt with.
Click to expand...

This is a joke right? You have people here saying "I don't see the problem" and you respond by attacking me with this absolutely baseless garbage. Pathetic.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
Gotchaye said:
But note that pigeon's link has the IRS also taking steps to stop doing it in 2011. So is the only issue here that you weren't told about this quickly enough? Does that make it almost as bad as Benghazi? Or is it worse because they didn't go public for more than a year?
Click to expand...

So they took steps to stop it and yet it continued through 2012. No one was fired. They denied any wrongdoing in 2012. That is a problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Any deals on LG OLED 77" C1 vs C2?
6
671
The Infectious Paradox replied
LTTP: Dead Space 3 (2013) via PS3 Ultra Slim
17
519
WoJ replied
"Gonna be worth tuning into the Xbox Tokyo game show stream next week" says Tom Warren
Rumor 2 3 4
163
7K
Tiago Rodrigues replied
Nintendo sells 77 Million Amibos
48
2K
Kikorin replied
LTTP: Battlefield 4 (PS3) 2013
LTTP
35
926
Kupfer replied
Top Bottom